Duel poster

Raf Anzovin · December 22, 2004

We just finished the Duel poster! (Duel, for those of you who weren't following the thread about this over in WIP, is our new short using a flat-rendering look). Here it is.

We're going to have some near-finished shots to post soon too.

--Raf Anzovin

jamagica · December 22, 2004

Wow...looks very intersesting..like a scene from "Princess Bride"

ZachBG · December 22, 2004

Nice! ... but you knew that.

If there's time, I'd love to hear if you all made any discoveries when creating characters that will be rendered flat-shaded, as opposed to 3D...

heyvern · December 22, 2004

Jamagica,

You didn't have to take the subject that literally...

Fantastic look! Can't wait to see some action!

Vernon "!" Zehr

MATrickz · December 22, 2004

You guys always come up with great stuff! Keep us updated!

Rodney · December 22, 2004

Awesome!

Looks like a winner to me.

3D animation needs a good swashbuckling movie and the 2D look really adds a new dimension (well... subtracts actually...)!

Really looking forward to seeing more of these guys and their adventures.

starwarsguy · December 22, 2004

Nice! I remember your test shots of this guy! They rocked! Good luck!

Raf Anzovin · December 22, 2004

Wow...looks very intersesting..like a scene from "Princess Bride"

Thanks. Yeah, that was definitely one of the main inspirations for this.

If there's time, I'd love to hear if you all made any discoveries when creating characters that will be rendered flat-shaded, as opposed to 3D...

Well, one of them was that you can't get away with the same kind of subtlety of expression with these faces as you can with a more realistic face. These kinds of faces call for big, wide, extreme expressions.

Here's one of the first finished shots from the movie. This isn't a final render--it's missing a background and there are still a few pass-throughs on both characters that will need to be smartskinned out. But it's pretty close.

http://www.anzovin.com/swash3.mov

Hutch · December 22, 2004

The guy in red looks like your avatar(you I presume) with gray hair on the sides. Coincidence?

Raf Anzovin · December 22, 2004

The guy in red looks like your avatar(you I presume) with gray hair on the sides. Coincidence?

Huh. You know, I never even thought about that. My avatar is me, but the Man in Red isn't supposed to be my alter ego--the Man in Black is! The Man in Red was invented by David Whitehead.

The fact that the Man in Red kind of looks kind of like an older version of me is pure coincidence as far as I know.

--Raf

jesshmusic · December 22, 2004

Did you guys use video rotoscopes for the animating process? If so, who was doing the fight choreography?

This is a very interesting looking project. I look forward to seeing more.

Paul Forwood · December 22, 2004

That looks great, Raf!

I just wondered, did you use TSM2 for the rigging?

Raf Anzovin · December 22, 2004

I just wondered, did you use TSM2 for the rigging?

Of course! In fact, the Man in Black was the first character we ever tested the TSM 2 on.

And we're making a LOT of use of the new stretchy rigs.

Did you guys use video rotoscopes for the animating process? If so, who was doing the fight choreography?

Actually no. We'd never rotoscope video, anyway (that always looks bad) but we've taped martial artists for reference before. But not this time. Everything in this shot comes right from the inside of my head.

Glad you like it!

--Raf

John Keates · December 22, 2004

That animation was fantasic (of course). It has a nice balence between realisitic and cartoony. I like the squash and stretch ( like when the guy in black kicks the guy in red in the Niagra, and when he realises that he is about to eat fist sandwhich).

The style reminds me a little of the test animations from Osipas book but there is definitely something else going on here.

John Keates · December 22, 2004

Actually, I have a little crit. When the guy in red gets kicked back he just kind of lands when I would expect him to stumble back a little. This would make it look a little more gritty.

I guess there might be action pacing issues and things but that was my observation anyway.

noah brewer · December 22, 2004

Unbelievable! Poetry in motion.

2 questions, if I may:

I love the hand-held camera feel. Did you just Key-frame the camera until it looked right, or do you have some tips on animating that kind of hand-held motion?

Also, the hand grabbing the punch was awesome! Did you just key frame both characters' hands together (a pain) or did you use some kind of constraints (kinetic, etc) to help out?

Thanks a million!

Noah

Julian · December 22, 2004

I thought there was something bothering me a tiny bit about the Man in Red getting kicked in the stomach too. I think I'd like to see them struggling on the ground for a few more frames before the kick happens. Also, I see the Man in Black's leg is stretched as he does the kick, but it returns to its normal length over two or three frames. Perhaps it would be better if it snapped back to its normal length instantly. Near the end, as the Man in Red is about to punch the Man in Black, the silhouette of his right arm as it draws back should be emphasized a bit more. The Man in Black knows he's about to get punched -- you might as well make it obvious for us too.

Even so, this is an amazing piece of work and I love the job you've done on it. I'm anxious to see the finished product.

robcat2075 · December 22, 2004

I love the "camera work". Way, way above what we usually see.

The way the guy in black flips himself over seemed most improbable, but that's part of the fun of a cartoon I think.

.:shortdog:. · December 22, 2004

Pretty impressive.

The guy in red looks like your avatar with gray hair on the sides.

I'd say the grey-haired guy is closer to Grisham (Grissam?) from CSI.

Bill_Y · December 22, 2004

I thought people might like to have a look at the scenic island where the Duel transpires. This is missing some of the vegetation and other such nurnies, but should give you an idea of what the setting is going to be.

anzovin · December 22, 2004

I thought there was something bothering me a tiny bit about the Man in Red getting kicked in the stomach too. I think I'd like to see them struggling on the ground for a few more frames before the kick happens.

A thing to keep in mind is that the motion in the entire film is tightly choreographed to the music, like a ballet, particularly in this shot. In order to hit beats later on, we can't spend the extra frames for the Man in Red to stagger. In fairness, I had the same exact crit when I first saw the shot, but Raf convinced me that it was a sacrifice that had to be made.

Steve

Anzovin Studio

Bill_Y · December 23, 2004

And just so people know that is a 3D set.

Zaryin · December 23, 2004

The non-stagger doesn't bother me too much. It fits well with the music so it wasn't anything to worrisome when I watched that clip. It's going to excellent when done.

John Keates · December 23, 2004

Oh.... I didn't know there was music. I had the sound off.

Ooops!

luckbat · December 23, 2004

And just so people know that is a 3D set.

You drop a bomb like that and then just walk away?

That comment needs its own tutorial...

Julian · December 23, 2004

And just so people know that is a 3D set.

It has a nice Chuck Jones look to it -- along the lines of "The White Seal" or "What's Opera, Doc?"

Steven Cleary · December 23, 2004

That set is absolutely fantastic. I'm a big fan of duller / less saturated tones in animation so your colour scheme is right up my street. The sharp contrast is great. The characters are well balanced and move superbly.

If I was pushed to give a crit (yeah, you really want one ), the red chap's eyebrows might be a tad too rigid and might do with a bit more dynamic movement, maybe making them move up and down in the centre more. Still, I don't think I've seen enough of that bloke to make a character assessment so ignore me if it suits him.

I've been waiting for more stylised cartoon style in 3D for yonks, so thanks for creating this. I know, I should have done something myself. This is the kind of thing A:M is suited to, in my opinion.

Steve.

Rodney · December 23, 2004

The Anzovin team is definitely teaching us some important lessons here.

From the quality of the production to the unique look, "Duel" grabs your attention and gets you hooked and wanting to see more.

It also has the feeling that we are looking at something familiar and yet really cutting edge. It has elements of gameplay, and saturday morning classic cartoons. It has scope and detail, and yet it is presented in such a simple way that it seems to redefine the word "eyecandy".

...and we haven't even seen the film yet!

Looking at the images and animation presented here and in the previous posts hint at a masterpiece in the making.

Keep it up guys (and gals). Bravo!

Bill_Y · December 23, 2004

Thought I'd show one more image of the temple area. Again it's not finished, but will give you a basic idea.

starwarsguy · December 23, 2004

How'd you get that syle? I love it! Great work! Can't wait tp see the finished film.

Animus · December 23, 2004

WoW!

I love the old fashion look you rendered. Animation is fantastic, and i would think animating a fight with 2 characters, so closely interactive must be one very big challenge. Do you animate one character at the time, or do you keyframe them both at extremes, or is there sort of a main character while the other is more of a prop? ( I am just asking myself, i am not asking for a tutorial).

The way the camera participates to the action is just awesome!

The colouring of your scene is beautifiul! Will you have scenes at different times of the day?

One thing i kept asking myself is which one is the good guy?

Raf convinced me that it was a sacrifice that had to be made.

Oh well even Anzovins have to make sacrifices.

I look forward to see more.

Raf Anzovin · December 23, 2004

I love the hand-held camera feel. Did you just Key-frame the camera until it looked right, or do you have some tips on animating that kind of hand-held motion?

Well, there's three things I try to think about. One is the general composition of the shot--what placement of the camera will give the most dynamic effect? I like deep perspective shots that have lots of diagonals in them. And the second is, how would a real camera operator react to this motion? What would he or she focus on first? The slight "refocusing" of the camera is often very subtle but can add a lot to the shot, because the camera becomes an active participant in the action. If you want to see this done really well, look at any of the CG shots in an episode of Firefly. The third is clarity, because it's all too easy to make motion hard to read while pursuing the first two goals, but the point of the shot is to comunicate something to the audience, and that's it's most important purpose. It's become styling in some film fight scenes recently to shake the camera up so much that the audience can't tell what's going on, and that's something I'm always on gaurd to prevent.

Also, the hand grabbing the punch was awesome! Did you just key frame both characters' hands together (a pain) or did you use some kind of constraints (kinetic, etc) to help out?

Thanks! I just switched the Man in Black's hand to an IK control and constrained that control to the Man in Red's hand. Not that big of a deal.

I thought there was something bothering me a tiny bit about the Man in Red getting kicked in the stomach too. I think I'd like to see them struggling on the ground for a few more frames before the kick happens. Also, I see the Man in Black's leg is stretched as he does the kick, but it returns to its normal length over two or three frames. Perhaps it would be better if it snapped back to its normal length instantly. Near the end, as the Man in Red is about to punch the Man in Black, the silhouette of his right arm as it draws back should be emphasized a bit more. The Man in Black knows he's about to get punched -- you might as well make it obvious for us too.

As my dad explained, there are reasons why we're keeping Man in Red's motion the way it is, but I like your suggestion about the punch anticipation, so that will probably get tweaked before this shot goes to final render.

I'd say the grey-haired guy is closer to Grisham (Grissam?) from CSI.

I've always thought of him and being a grey-haired Kirk Douglas.

That set is absolutely fantastic. I'm a big fan of duller / less saturated tones in animation so your colour scheme is right up my street. The sharp contrast is great.

Credit for the color scheme and set design goes to Tim Dwyer, our art director. He did a whole lot of very cool concept art that will be on the "Making a Short" CD we're planning to do once the Duel is done. I guess I can post one of the images here as a taste....

It also has the feeling that we are looking at something familiar and yet really cutting edge. It has elements of gameplay, and saturday morning classic cartoons. It has scope and detail, and yet it is presented in such a simple way that it seems to redefine the word "eyecandy".

Woah, thanks Rodney! I like it too, but I didn't think we were redefining the word "eyecandy!" That's high praise.

i would think animating a fight with 2 characters, so closely interactive must be one very big challenge. Do you animate one character at the time, or do you keyframe them both at extremes, or is there sort of a main character while the other is more of a prop? ( I am just asking myself, i am not asking for a tutorial).

Sometimes it's possible to animate one and then the other, but often they both have to be done at once. It depends on what's happening in the shot. For instance, when the Man in Black dodges all the Man in Red's punches, that's the kind of shot where you can animate one character first and then the other. But not anything where they are both effecting each other's motion.

The colouring of your scene is beautifiul! Will you have scenes at different times of the day?

Nope, this all takes place at one time of day. However, we've talked a lot about how this would work if we did something longer in this style, and we would, in that situation, create separate color paletts for each character under different lighting conditions, much the same way that it's done in traditional animation.

One thing i kept asking myself is which one is the good guy?

Only time will tell.....

--Raf

jamagica · December 23, 2004

Sweet! you're doing a "making a short" vid? That's something I need! can't wait for the Duel to come out and the video

anzovin · December 23, 2004

Here's a shot of the control rig for the Man in Black. As Raf mentioned, this fellow was the first character ever rigged with TSM2. You can see the various controls (the underlying geometry bones and all of Raf's many support, null, pointer, and loop-de-loop ;-) bones are hidden), plus some, like the eye rig and the scabbard rig, that TSM2 does not install and that were done custom. The geo skeleton has few or no intermediates because this simplified style of character does not require them. Overall, these characters are very easy and trouble-free to animate, though, as you can see from the shot group we posted, there are some passthroughs that will be addressed using SmartSkin before the final render. We are making particular use of TSM2's squash-and-stretch feature, which is indispensable for cartoony animation.

Steve

Anzovin Studio

higginsdj · December 23, 2004

"Making a short" CD - Now thats a CD I would buy

Cheers

Chairoscuro · December 23, 2004

To reiterate what others have said, the camera work in Swash3mov. was very impressive.

David

anzovin · December 30, 2004

Here's a new Black and Red image Raf just did.

Have a Happy New Year, and a healthy 2005!

Steve

Anzovin Studio

Zaryin · December 30, 2004

Besides the Toon Gradient are you using any other type of gradients?

Love the new pic.

modernhorse · December 30, 2004

I want this film ! So very fresh looking. Can't wait for the dvd.

I have a theory - they are father and son (hence the duel hehehe).

Best of luck with this project, it already appears to be sucessful.

Doug

MarkusAralius382 · December 30, 2004

Wow I love that black and red image! The animation so far also looks so "clean". I cant wait till I get that good at modeling and animating....

Zaryin · December 30, 2004

That's what I was thinking, Doug

amarillospider · December 31, 2004

Just haveta chime in that everything looks super great and i can't wait to see the final.

Have a great new year.

-Alonso

Fuchur · December 31, 2004

I dont know why, but that style reminds me a bit of "The Road to El Dorado"....

http://www.roadtoeldorado.com/

I really liked that movie...

*Fuchur*

MarkusAralius382 · December 31, 2004

I dont know why, but that style reminds me a bit of "The Road to El Dorado"....

Thats exactly what I was thinking!, similar style I guess.

starwarsguy · December 31, 2004

I own Road to "El Dorado" and I love it! They remind me of that as well.

Gerry · January 3, 2005

This all looks great and I love the look you're going for, but I for one would vote for a cleaner, more legible title on the poster design. It should be at LEAST as readable as the other copy. As it is, the fussiness only makes it hard to read (especially against the stylized "sun" on the horizon) and robs it of impact.

Raf Anzovin · January 18, 2005

I dont know why, but that style reminds me a bit of "The Road to El Dorado"....

That's not too surprising, because one of our inspirations for this short was Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas, which is the film that Dreamworks Animation did immediately after El Dorado. Their angular style is very interesting.

Besides the Toon Gradient are you using any other type of gradients?

We didn't use any of the standard toon gradients, but came up with some custom gradients that allow a slight turned edge while keeping the shape mostly flat color. In addition, there are some image maps on the character's faces that create very slight gradients that help the features show up. For instance, without a gradient that slightly lightens the tip of the nose, the nose will tend to dissappear into the face.

--Raf

amarillospider · January 18, 2005

How do you guys arrange projects like this in A:M ? Do you have multiple projects, or just 1 big one? Do you have a lot of action's or do most of the animating in the chor? Do you have many chor's? Or will all these questions be answered in your "how to make a short" video?

-Alonso

Bill_Y · January 19, 2005

Thought people might be interested in how the trees are going to look animated. This is a test of wind effecting a tree.

leaf_test08.mov

JTalbotski · January 19, 2005

Hey, that tree is dancing! I love the look to this project. Very retro-funky.

Jim

Duel poster

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