SCULPTEO

[John Bigboote]

I got my feet wet in the '3D Printing' arena this week... turned out kinda cool!

 

I uploaded a hash model of my Tireman character to sculpteo.com(via OBJ exporter with a .mat file for colors...) and interacted with their online 'repair-bot'... which sent me back to A:M to make revisions maybe 8-10 times as I learned what I could and could not get away with... and mostly what geometry was deemed 'too thin' for the scale I had chose... which was 3.8" tall. This print cost $80...I am pretty happy with what I see.

 

My method was to pose the character using his TSM rig in a chor and save it out from there as a .mdl... which I opened and deleted all the bones and decals from... the 'Tireman' on his hat was a decal so I modeled it and replaced it with real 3D geometry. I was under the assumption that to make a 3D print I would need to make my model 100% waterproof- meaning 1 continuos mesh, but I was wrong. Sculpteo's 'repair' bot- which takes about 5-10 minutes to work- seems all the interjoing geometry into 1 fuseable mesh. I DID model the base and included it's depth in the model, because I did not know if the model would be too top-heavy to stand on it's own.

 

Sculpteo took about 1 week, the box came HEAVILY packaged for damage vis USPost. I might adjust some colors and make some more for 'thank-you's' for my clients. I'll post a wireframe of the model later. I recommend Sculpteo dot com!

[zandoriastudios]

Cool!

[NancyGormezano]

wow...very cute!

[itsjustme]

Looks great, Matt!

[robcat2075]

Great result! That looks great, Matt!

[Rodney]

Nice! That turned out great.

For a 3D print you've got some very nice detail in there.

[jakerupert]

Did you have to paint him yourself?

[largento]

That's very cool, Matt!

 

I'm already wanting to spend money I don't have on a complete set of Wannabe Pirates figurines. :-)

[robcat2075]

It occurs to me that one could 3D design and 3D print a mold for an object like that and then you could make a bunch of them out of plaster or wax or resin maybe.

[John Bigboote]

Did you have to paint him yourself?

No- I would never be that perfect. Sculpteo offers many different materials- at different costs, and one of the lower cost resins is 'multicolor', which means it takes the colors you set in your model's groups which export with the OBJ file as a .mat file and prints them at that color.

 

It occurs to me that one could 3D design and 3D print a mold for an object like that and then you could make a bunch of them out of plaster or wax or resin maybe.

Yes, It seems that if one could be made, many could be mass-produced Chinese-like.

[John Bigboote]

The geometry: Note, the hat is not connected to the main body in any way... it just overlaps... same thing all over the place... the feet slightly overlap the base, etc. Sculpteo's repair bot does all the work to make a waterproof model- and it shows you where you can improve (generally 'thicken' the mass... on this model I had to thicken all the fingers-hands-arms so that the print would be strong enough.) The resin model print is incredibly strong and plastic-like, I was afraid it would be chalky and fragile.

[John Bigboote]

Screen-grab from the webpage... showing a 5 inch tall print would cost $171.13... yowch! They were a couple of days late in their 'Ships On' date... could be because they are backlogged... could be that someone did some work on my model, altho- if it passes the online 'review' phase... it should be all set to go.

[John Bigboote]

I want to make more! I need deeper pockets... the wife just drove her car into a deep flood, xpensive repairs needed! Have you guys heard about the floods in Detroit??? CRAZY!

[fae_alba]

I see this in Papa Bear's near future!

[John Bigboote]

Like I said in post 1... BIG THUMBS UP, I highly recommend Sculpteo for those of us curious about 3D printing but do not want to buy a 3D printer(yet). Speculatively, in about 5 years we will all have 3D printers... supposed to be 'the next big thing'. Food, clothing, shoes, toys, will all be printed in home. Shopping Malls will be replaced by small clothing boutiques where you can design, get fitted and await while your custom garments are printed. There are already construction companies using large 3D printers to build custom homes.

[robcat2075]

Great print but still too pricey for my casual needs. I'm sure it will get more economical in the future.

 

 

 

it takes the colors you set in your model's groups which export with the OBJ file as a .mat file and prints them at that color.

 

So, you set all the colors in A:M and didn't have to recreate them outside of A:M, right?

[John Bigboote]

 

 

 

 

So, you set all the colors in A:M and didn't have to recreate them outside of A:M, right?

That is correct... grab some CPs...make them a group... color the group... prints that color. Of course, specularity-reflectivity-transparency etc does not apply... but COLOR does!

[pixelplucker]

That is pretty cool, rule of thumb is all shapes must be closed surfaces. You can have shapes intersect each other since the final layers will be derived from the solid bodies.

Looks like it was done with fdm out of colored abs. If so then there is a lot you can't do with that method because it uses tool paths instead of just layers alone and there is no real support for printed materal that overhangs.

 

I might be getting the new Form1+, getting to the point it isn't cost effective for me to send out. If I do get one I'd be happy to run stuff out for the people here, certainly wouldn't cost $80 since the material is much much less and total machine costs is far less than what I had been using. They have a several materials to print from nearly crystal clear, white, gray and super fine resolution black. I had a sample part come back and the resolution is much better than the polyjet machines out there.

[R Reynolds]

 

It occurs to me that one could 3D design and 3D print a mold for an object like that and then you could make a bunch of them out of plaster or wax or resin maybe.

These days, this is pretty much a standard manufacturing procedure for casting quick metal prototypes. They 3D print a "master" in a plastic that can be melted like wax and then run a standard investment casting process; not cheap but way faster than machining a block of aluminum.

[zandoriastudios]

.......

I might be getting the new Form1+, getting to the point it isn't cost effective for me to send out. If I do get one I'd be happy to run stuff out for the people here, certainly wouldn't cost $80 since the material is much much less and total machine costs is far less than what I had been using. They have a several materials to print from nearly crystal clear, white, gray and super fine resolution black. I had a sample part come back and the resolution is much better than the polyjet machines out there.

I also want to get the Form1+. But my wife insists that I wait... I'm focusing on learning digital sculpture, so that I can expand my opportunities in the 3D Printing space...

[pixelplucker]

There are major issues with finish quality if people are using plastic models for investment casting. Some do but there is residue left behind that can cause fissures with the cast as it flows through the mold causing weak spots as well as rough and contaminated surfaces that maybe hard or impossible to clean.

 

There are wax printers that they use for lost wax casting that burn off clean used in the jewelry and dental industry. They work with heated heads that print layers of wax.

 

If you are doing lost wax casting you can take the plastic model and make a rubber mold of the object that you then make wax casting replicas. These wax replicas you can do investment casts from. Extra steps but the end result is much better.

 

So far for all the machines I had stuff printed on the Form1+ seems to be the best no matter what price for plastic output quality. There are build lines but they are so fine it is almost not an issue. Price is hard to beat, most office printers cost this much or more.

[robcat2075]

I do like the multiple color printing that Matt got.

 

I want to make more! I need deeper pockets... the wife just drove her car into a deep flood, xpensive repairs needed! Have you guys heard about the floods in Detroit??? CRAZY!

 

I guess printing her a new car wont' work.

[robcat2075]

$149 per liter for the Form1+ printer still sounds very expensive.

[markw]

$149 per liter for the Form1+ printer still sounds very expensive.

A veritable bargin!

How much is a litre of printer ink?

My Epson's black cartridge holds 11.5ml, costs 20.16€.

That makes 1 litre around 1,753.04€!!!

[Fuchur]

Keep in mind: The Form1+ is a single-color printer with even a very limited selection of colors available and the models will not be very strong. It is however one of the most precise once you can get (even for much more money).

I have a Replicator 2 (and I could kill myself for not getting the Replicator 2x, with a second printerhead useable for instance for disolveable PVA and PLA in a print).

 

I would be interested in how they print with that many colors... there are a few printers out there which can do that... but in general they are in the 100,000 Dollars and up market section which is a little pricy if you ask me .

[John Bigboote]

I would be interested in how they print with that many colors... there are a few printers out there which can do that... but in general they are in the 100,000 Dollars and up market section which is a little pricy if you ask me .

Which makes the cost a lttle more worthwhile. If I had been a little more stringent with my thicknesses I would have used much less resin and could have reduced the cost a bit. I am working on it... next one will be in the $40 range.

[robcat2075]

Which makes the cost a lttle more worthwhile. If I had been a little more stringent with my thicknesses I would have used much less resin and could have reduced the cost a bit. I am working on it... next one will be in the $40 range.

 

 

 

You could print the base with a hollow space for a lead weight.

[Fuchur]

In general everything is hollow in a 3d-print. Printing it with 100% infill is just to expensive and does not add much stiffness anyway.

(same principal is used in plane construction or when having a look at bird bones...)

 

I am not totally sure what a SL-Printer does there, but I would be astonished if it worked much differently.

 

Making the base hollow could save a little, but it will not be very much and it would anyway be much harder to print for the printer. (you would very likely not see anything about that in your print, since the "hard" part would be in the model...)

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[John Bigboote]

I did make the base hollow... and this print IS solid resin. Very heavy, no need for a lead weight in the bottom.

[robcat2075]

With the Form1+ printer that works by curing a resin... if you had an enclosed hollow space in your model it would end up filled with liquid?

[John Bigboote]

I think this is sort of the process, hard to see it any way but solid resin. There is a very cool 'hunting' decoration at the end of the video that shows a hinged model coming right out of the printer with no assembly... this stuff blows my mind with possibilities!

[robcat2075]

Looks like you need a hazmat room to have that printer.

[John Bigboote]

It LOOKS like all the unused powder resin gets vacuumed back into the supply to be used again... thrifty! I have my next model all set... a 3.8 inch tall figurine for $45... won't look as good as the A:M render of course.

[robcat2075]

mmm... ribs!

[Zaryin]

How big would you have to have it made to get rid of the imperfections?

[John Bigboote]

I don't know. Thing with it is, enlarging the print from 3.5" tall to 4" tall almost doubles the price, because the mass expands exponentially. Ideally... I'd like a 5" tall print, but find that to be cost prohibitive. By imperfections, do you mean the styrations or digital bump grooves that can be seen at certain angles? Those will always be there, I guess. Until printers and services like Sculpteo and digital 3D printing in general evolve a little more- which is happening FAST. Everyone I've shown this print to and held it has been impressed and nobody said 'why does it have these microscopic grooves?' It's not going to be like a toy you get at McDonalds-all shiney and smooth. There ARE printers that can do that... but not in color- that I know of. Sculpteo offers other materials(at higher costs) that may have a better smoothness, but in a solid color. Here we are 2-3 decades into photographic color digital printing, and it STILL has not rivaled all the nuances of true darkroom chemical printing.

GUNGIRL POSED DOF.mov

[DZ4]

That's really cool. Aside from the cost making it not feasible to mass produce, who would have thought 10 years ago about a hash model actually being made a real object that way.

 

I'll bet the first try it came out looking all scary and melting, with a zombie hunger for asphalt...but alive!

[John Bigboote]

That's really cool. Aside from the cost making it not feasible to mass produce, who would have thought 10 years ago about a hash model actually being made a real object that way.

 

I'll bet the first try it came out looking all scary and melting, with a zombie hunger for asphalt...but alive!

EXACTLY! except that part about the zombie hunger asphalt... part.

 

These are HASH models I use to ANIMATE with being digitally printed and now cluttering my desktop! How cool is THAT?

[John Bigboote]

https://p3d.in/YBBRR

 

Just discovered p3d.com pretty cool! allows you to upload your model as an obj... I think RobCat was talking about p3d before but a forum search did not turn-up anything. I'm going to start a p3d library.

[Rodney]

Way to represent!

[robcat2075]

That's a very successful conversion.

 

WebGL is what makes that site possible.

[DZ4]

Found it!

 

See the model in the background?

 

I was thinking...

 

Well, how do they 3D print the inside?

[John Bigboote]

Hey Darrin--- was there supposed to be a link on that?

[Ilidrake]

That is feaking cool!!!!!!!!!!

[pixelplucker]

One of 3d systems machines uses gypsum plaster that is colored along with an adhesive layer between. The models are pretty light and they toughen them up by soaking them in cyanoacrylate (super glue). You can imagine a room full of that can't be too healthy to work with.

 

Wonder if you took the AM model as an OBJ and backed it through a program like Hexagon and added a thickness to the main shape. You can add the thickness inner rather than outer and save some material.

 

All the 3d printers that require post processing to clean up weather it's poly jet that require a clean bath to remove support material, gypsum based, wax that need the lower temperature wax support to be dissolved, all these the models should be hollow and a hole should be added to empty the void out. This saves quite a bit on material costs.

 

One of the big reasons I am finally looking to go in house with printing is because the dependability of outside companies isn't there. Majority of the shops that print will orient the model to gang up as much as they can to print as many models at a time rather than orient the models to best suite print quality.

Good example is if you made a coin and printed it on edge the face would have build lines making the model useless. Even at 16µ-25µ (25µ is just under .001") these lines show.

 

In the case of the Form1 the variations in materials are for different purposes. The clear material is for visibility for seeing something work, Gray for general purpose and the Black for fine detail. Reason black is because the uv light exposing the material doesn't spread (bloom) as much giving a finer finish than other color types.

[robcat2075]

Wonder if you took the AM model as an OBJ and backed it through a program like Hexagon and added a thickness to the main shape. You can add the thickness inner rather than outer and save some material.

 

I'll note that the A:M "push" plugin can work both inwards and outwards and could be used to build a model with inner thickness.

[John Bigboote]

'Hollowing out' would be a great way to save material cost, but would also have some downsides to note:

 

-The method I used as illustrated above uses models that were generated for animation purposes, so there are many-many overlapping groups and masses... it is not 1 airtight mesh- this would complicate and confuse a 'hollowing' attempt. Sculpteo does something in their 'repair' process to join the A:M meshes together- it would be great if they then offered some general hollowing options. If I had used a sculpting program like Zbrush to generate the model- I imagine it would be 1 fluid mass and using A:M to hollow an inner chamber would be an expedient process.

 

-The print I have received is rigid, heavy and durable- should last a lifetime... whereas if it had been hollowed it would be lighter and more fragile, prone to chipping- more 'chintzy'.

[nemyax]

When you're making a hollowed-out model, how do you deal with the powder that's stuck in the empty space?

[fae_alba]

I tried sending up a model of Papa Bear to sulpteo this weekend (on a pedestal, with a fish at his feet and holding his fishing pole). The repair tool choked on it, and no matter what I did it wouldn't work. Ah well.

[John Bigboote]

I tried sending up a model of Papa Bear to sulpteo this weekend (on a pedestal, with a fish at his feet and holding his fishing pole). The repair tool choked on it, and no matter what I did it wouldn't work. Ah well.

Did you give it time? 20 minutes in some cases. Also, as always- make sure you have your normals facing right ways or that will make for some confusements to the bot... How many subdivisions did you set in the obj export dialogue... I've been using 16 I think. As I said p at the top... you go back and forth many many times between A:M and Sculpteo, so you need to change something up and try again.