An A:M user since 2001...

[rusty]

Hi!

 

I guess being an old A:Mer I must have skipped right by the new Introduction Screen and the new beginner videos. I've started watching them--of course, as always it seems, I'm discovering things I didn't know (after 12 years!!) I've only seen one video so far and have discovered that clicking opens a tools properties.

 

The first subject, Interface and Navigation, seems to have two parts but part 2 won't load. Should I report this somewhere?

 

Cheers,

Rusty

 

EDIT: And it seems like the next video tut (modeling) says that that 2nd part that wouldn't load is important, LOL! No one is immune Murphy's Law.

[rusty]

Well I see these are not all in place yet but that's okay. The third video--Modeling 1--could have been a whole lot better. I hate to say this but it was a little too difficult to understand due to the person's accent. Also more planning would have helped as the person was lost for words at times, backed himself into corners and stumbled and, did a few things that were not explained and quite likely would have lost a beginner...IMHO. But all and all it was okay.

 

But, if your going to take the time to do something, especially something like this, you should take the time to do it better then just 'okay'. And you definitely should have someone that does not have an accent that is hard to understand (I would feel bad and quite possibly angry if I had made this tut and someone said those things to me...so let me humbly apologize but...what I'm saying is true).

 

Let me add that these things are not easy to do. A:M is complex and knowing where to draw the spline (pun intended) can be rough. For myself, it would take a lot of thought and planning to do one of these.

 

Still, an awesome idea and effort!!

 

Rusty

[Rodney]

We are operating on the general principle "whatcha get is better than zilch."

 

Kudos to the community (and especially Steffen, Gerald and Robert) for putting these resources together for us.

v17 was the beginning. Look for more videos as we move into v18.

 

The basic level of quality has been set.

Now we can all join in and record our own favorite features.

[rusty]

We are operating on the general principle "whatcha get is better than zilch."

 

Kudos to the community (and especially Steffen, Gerald and Robert) for putting these resources together for us.

v17 was the beginning. Look for more videos as we move into v18.

 

The basic level of quality has been set.

Now we can all join in and record our own favorite features.

 

[Rodney]

Cheer up Rusty. More videos are on the way.

As you know, it takes time and effort to create high quality video.

As a community we are proud of the people that have stepped forward to lead the way.

 

Look for more A:M introductory videos coming soon.

[higginsdj]

Rusty, criticising the 'quality' of community members tutorial contributions is a bit rich. If you didn't know this was a community driven effort then you do now and really do owe a proper appology to those who have made the effort rather than a "its crap - I appologise - but it's true"!

 

Cheers

[Mechadelphia]

Well I see these are not all in place yet but that's okay. The third video--Modeling 1--could have been a whole lot better. I hate to say this but it was a little too difficult to understand due to the person's accent. Also more planning would have helped as the person was lost for words at times, backed himself into corners and stumbled and, did a few things that were not explained and quite likely would have lost a beginner...IMHO. But all and all it was okay.

 

But, if your going to take the time to do something, especially something like this, you should take the time to do it better then just 'okay'. And you definitely should have someone that does not have an accent that is hard to understand (I would feel bad and quite possibly angry if I had made this tut and someone said those things to me...so let me humbly apologize but...what I'm saying is true).

 

Let me add that these things are not easy to do. A:M is complex and knowing where to draw the spline (pun intended) can be rough. For myself, it would take a lot of thought and planning to do one of these.

 

Still, an awesome idea and effort!!

 

Rusty

I guess that you meant well with your assessment Rusty but that was rude.

 

I have not seen the videos that you are referring to but I do not have to in order to know that there are more polite and constructive ways to criticize a person's efforts to teach others.

 

You should be particularly mindful of the way you criticize a person's accent if you really feel that you must criticize it at all.

 

If you got anything out of the video(s) then a simple "Thank you" would have been sufficient.

[rusty]

Well I see these are not all in place yet but that's okay. The third video--Modeling 1--could have been a whole lot better. I hate to say this but it was a little too difficult to understand due to the person's accent. Also more planning would have helped as the person was lost for words at times, backed himself into corners and stumbled and, did a few things that were not explained and quite likely would have lost a beginner...IMHO. But all and all it was okay.

 

But, if your going to take the time to do something, especially something like this, you should take the time to do it better then just 'okay'. And you definitely should have someone that does not have an accent that is hard to understand (I would feel bad and quite possibly angry if I had made this tut and someone said those things to me...so let me humbly apologize but...what I'm saying is true).

 

Let me add that these things are not easy to do. A:M is complex and knowing where to draw the spline (pun intended) can be rough. For myself, it would take a lot of thought and planning to do one of these.

 

Still, an awesome idea and effort!!

 

Rusty

I guess that you meant well with your assessment Rusty but that was rude.

 

I have not seen the videos that you are referring to but I do not have to in order to know that there are more polite and constructive ways to criticize a person's efforts to teach others.

 

You should be particularly mindful of the way you criticize a person's accent if you really feel that you must criticize it at all.

 

If you got anything out of the video(s) then a simple "Thank you" would have been sufficient.

 

Obviously, I disagree. It wasn't rude and was justified IMHO. If someone has thin skin I'm sorry for them but hard to understand is hard to understand. Period. The sky is blue. What do want me to do about it?

[Fuchur]

Nothing to worry about... since Robert is planning to do all the videos you dont have to worry about my (I have to admit) quite heavy accent. I have never heard of someone who could not understand me till now (they notice my accent but every US or UK citizen could easily get what I was telling them) but if it is like that, it is like that.

Since it is not my mother tongue (I am not even living in an English speaking country and my last visit in the US or UK was many years ago) I am having a much harder time than Robert there and of course: Robert's videos are another approach to telling people what is going on. They are more of an introduction ("look what you can do") while mine are more of a typical tutorial.

 

We will have to wait for Robert to produce more of his great videos... since Robert needs a lot of time to produce his videos (due to the fact that he has to do much more planing and post-processing than I do) I have created a few tutorials I thought to

be most important and when Robert produced his video of that part I just did not want to throw mine away and had put the 1/2-navigation in. Since they are not understandable, I'd say I will get rid of them as soon as Robert has filled the other parts and I dont have to worry about doing more of them, since people cant understand what I am trying to tell them anyway... That is at least good to know, since it is less trouble for everybody.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

 

PS: The videos are being added when Robert has completed them... if Robert offers a new one, it will be shown there a few hours later. Does not have to do anything with versions of A:M.

 

PPS: CTRL-clicking on a button to open its options has been added to A:M in v16 or v17 by Steffen.

[itsjustme]

Obviously, I disagree. It wasn't rude and was justified IMHO. If someone has thin skin I'm sorry for them but hard to understand is hard to understand. Period. The sky is blue. What do want me to do about it?

 

I haven't had a problem understanding Gerald. Actually, I don't think I've watched a tutorial by anyone in our community that was in english that I didn't understand.

 

In case it is difficult for some people to understand me in tutorials I make (I try not to mumble, but things aren't always the clearest), I usually include a subtitle file...that also helps with language conversion and hearing impaired users.

 

As has been suggested, you could always make a few tutorials, Rusty. If the entire community pitched in, it would go a lot faster, I'm thinking.

[Rodney]

Gerald's accent in the videos gives Hash Inc (and A:M) an international feel.

 

The sky is blue. What do want me to do about it?

 

If we take the time, we can all experience a sky with a much wider array of colors than just blue.

Unfortunately at the moment the sky outside my window is a dull grey... a rainstorm is passing through.

Other colors the sky may be at times include: red, orange, yellow, pink, purple (at sunrise and sunset) and black (at night).

The answer to the question of what to do about the matter might therefore be... "consider a broader perspective."

[fae_alba]

If we take the time, we can all experience a sky with a much wider array of colors than just blue.

Unfortunately at the moment the sky outside my window is a dull grey... a rainstorm is passing through.

Other colors the sky may be at times include: red, orange, yellow, pink, purple (at sunrise and sunset) and black (at night).

The answer to the question of what to do about the matter might therefore be... "consider a broader perspective."

 

Ah, your wisdom Rodney is truly amazing. Well said. While I haven't watched the tutorials so I cannot lend my opinion. But Rusty simply offered up his thoughts, perhaps a little harshly, but I'm sure it was in the right spirit. I have put together the same kind of tutorials (for other projects) and I will say that they are not, in the greatest stretch of the imagination, easy to do. You'd think they would be as simple as clicking record and talking, but in truth far more goes into them than that. Which is why Robert puts so much time into his. Kudos to each and every person who donates their time to putting together tuts for the community; good or bad. My hats off to you.

[Fuchur]

Gerald's accent in the videos gives Hash Inc (and A:M) an international feel.

 

The sky is blue. What do want me to do about it?

 

If we take the time, we can all experience a sky with a much wider array of colors than just blue.

Unfortunately at the moment the sky outside my window is a dull grey... a rainstorm is passing through.

Other colors the sky may be at times include: red, orange, yellow, pink, purple (at sunrise and sunset) and black (at night).

The answer to the question of what to do about the matter might therefore be... "consider a broader perspective."

 

Since this addresses me and in the end it is the receiver who will judge what has been said, I'll give my 2 cents:

It was a little rude simply because I am offering a free service I am not paid for in any way trying to help people to understand a complex software. Telling someone who tried to help that s/he did no good at all is somehow rude especially since I did not demand that I did it good and since criticizing my voice / accent is quite personal. I dont think there is someone who really can argue about that.

 

On the other hand I can see that it is important to address something like that and I do not think the intention was destructive.

While he could be more diplomatic with his words ("The third tutorial was good too but could even be better if it would be redone by a native speaker to increase the effect... etc.") his point is valid: A tutorial that is not understandable is not helping much.

 

There maybe differences between regions in the US too... people in Philly will certainly understand it better than people from Dallas or Witchita. (simply because Philly had many German influences due to the German settlers). People living closer to the coasts may be more used to foreigners, accents and other languages and so on.

 

I can't say I am not a little disappointed about it, but I can see why it would be better to have a native speaker doing it.

The interesting part is: Rusty, will you do a tutorial if Robert is too busy which will match the raised expectations you claim?

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[rusty]

Sorry if I was harsh. Hash is not a company that will pay a professional to come in and do things like beginning tutorials (in fact Hash hates the word professional and that's almost a quote from da man). Hash is closer to hobby so it can keep its prices down and I say all this in the kindest way. I just tend to forget this.

 

Unfortunately I am a horrible teacher and, the reality is, I have no free time right now so, no, I won't and can't offer to do a tutorial. Wish I could (I really do).

 

Cheers,

Rusty

[itsjustme]

Unfortunately I am a horrible teacher and, the reality is, I have no free time right now so, no, I won't and can't offer to do a tutorial. Wish I could (I really do).

 

That's unfortunate. Volunteers are very hard to find. Maybe sometime in the future when your schedule clears up.

[pixelplucker]

Redo them in black and white, add some film grain and toss in a few subtitles and I would be just as happy.

 

In general, not picking on anyone in particular here or any of the tutorials here but often I find tutorials way too slow moving. Watching a screen with long pauses and a cursor going in a circular fashion tends to give me anxiety so I rarely view any of them.

 

PDF or html pages with step by step and down to the bare bones in conjunction with short videos to help clarify segments is probably best.

[Rodney]

Hash is not a company that will pay a professional to come in and do things like beginning tutorials (in fact Hash hates the word professional and that's almost a quote from da man). Hash is closer to hobby so it can keep its prices down and I say all this in the kindest way. I just tend to forget this.

 

Misinformation like this needs to be addressed.

 

Firstly, Hash Inc isn't a tutorial company.

Most software companies do not hire professionals to come and create beginner tutorials. (Users fill that gap)

It is also more common that independent parties see a need for these resource and offer their services to fill that need. (but they depart where profits decrease).

Where are... who are... these independent parties in our community?

I'll guess: Seeking those willing to pay for their services. Or as has been suggested enjoying a few words of 'thanks'.

 

Over the years many talented folks have pressed forward into this arena of creating tutorials in the A:M Community but we (collectively as a community) haven't been able to sustain their efforts. Once we buy a tutorial we don't need to buy it again and our collective interest in paying for any tutorial tends to approach nil over a longer term duration (esp. as our personal knowledge increases).

 

Hash Inc is an organization... it can't hate anything. Hash Inc has used the term professional on several occasions with an eye toward understanding what the community considers as professional (see the "Is A:M Professional" topic from shortly after this forum was created). Martin Hash has on numerous occasions recognized publicly and privately that those most likely to gift themselves with the title of "Pro" are more often than not less likely to be of the professional caliber themselves. Martin has related dealings with these so called professionals where he has found them lacking in not only professional courtesy but in professional respect. Strictly speaking there are only a few professions which qualify for the use of the title Professional. These are usually doctors, lawyers and others with a degree of professionalism granted by the organization they work in. They generally have a trade to pro-fess.

 

The underlying problem with paying any party (professional or otherwise) to create resources is that the community must support the effort.

Historically our community (not Hash Inc) has been unable and/or unwilling to sustain such efforts.

This leaves space for individual innovators to see a need and rise to fill the gaps.

To point the finger at Hash Inc and suggest they are responsible for both the gap and the failure to fill the gap shows a lack of understanding (a misrepresentation of the facts) which only education can address.

 

Hence my response here.

 

 

 

Redo them in black and white, add some film grain and toss in a few subtitles and I would be just as happy.

 

In general, not picking on anyone in particular here or any of the tutorials here but often I find tutorials way too slow moving. Watching a screen with long pauses and a cursor going in a circular fashion tends to give me anxiety so I rarely view any of them.

 

PDF or html pages with step by step and down to the bare bones in conjunction with short videos to help clarify segments is probably best.

 

The Introductory videos are there to address a specific need (video tutorials).

PDF/html/step-by-step tutorials are other areas of interest being addressed. (we have a whole forum area dedicated to them)

Shortly after joining the community and volunteering as moderator for the Newbies forum I asked the question, "What do A:M users need?"

A wise man told me simply and plainly... "Everything."

[higginsdj]

But, if your going to take the time to do something, especially something like this, you should take the time to do it better then just 'okay'. And you definitely should have someone that does not have an accent that is hard to understand (I would feel bad and quite possibly angry if I had made this tut and someone said those things to me...so let me humbly apologize but...what I'm saying is true).

 

 

Rusty

I guess that you meant well with your assessment Rusty but that was rude.

 

I have not seen the videos that you are referring to but I do not have to in order to know that there are more polite and constructive ways to criticize a person's efforts to teach others.

 

You should be particularly mindful of the way you criticize a person's accent if you really feel that you must criticize it at all.

 

If you got anything out of the video(s) then a simple "Thank you" would have been sufficient.

 

Obviously, I disagree. It wasn't rude and was justified IMHO. If someone has thin skin I'm sorry for them but hard to understand is hard to understand. Period. The sky is blue. What do want me to do about it?

 

No Rusty - you are NOT justified. If you have a problem with the lack of delivery of suitable tutorials FOR YOU then you take that out on HASH and do not take it out on forum/community members who give up their own time FREELY. YOU may have a problem with understanding the content of forum member published tutorials - TOO BAD - they are not designed specifically for you.

 

Just my humble opinion - which you will obviously disagree with!

[Rodney]

If we'd like to keep this topic open... please... everyone... BEFORE POSTING FURTHER.... edit thyself.

[Vertexspline]

I think the basic idea here is --hey ver 17 videos are cool and helpful and not enough of them and more to come in ver 18 !! I liked what i see in ver 17 and look forward to more in 18. Go AM community.

[jakerupert]

Hi Rusty,

 

As they say: "Dem geschenkten Gaul schaut man nicht ins Maul." somewhat like:" You dont look into the mouth of a horse, that you got as a gift."

 

So please dont demotivate Geralds efforts , from which other members might well profit!

 

Thank you Gerald, don`t let that stop you please.

[Dpendleton77]

I understand everything furchur has said in his videos. I say keep up the good work man and when is Version 18 dropping??

[zandoriastudios]

I haven't watched the introductory videos...but, it is pretty lame to be so defensive about a harsh critique--a new purchaser of the software isn't going to care that it was done by a volunteer.

[Vertexspline]

smiles. I think everyone here was being good intentioned it sometimes comes off a little sharper in black and white. I think everyone likes the videos --and to comment on accent or any part of a production is fair. I mispronounce words all the time so if i made a video and one of those popped out--smiles . I would go yep that sucked. If you called me out on that i would go. yep that sucked and not get upset. It sucked.

 

Should the production values be professional if included in the software? Probably yes. I think that is all some folks are saying.

 

Now that said there is always a place for tutorials that are not up to the professional standards but maybe not connected to the software directly as it were.

 

And Gerald --any video you make I would be happy to see and watch over and over ---so please do not refrain ---they are really helpful and useful and a great contribution to the community. Thanks.

[Fuchur]

I haven't watched the introductory videos...but, it is pretty lame to be so defensive about a harsh critique--a new purchaser of the software isn't going to care that it was done by a volunteer.

 

I think this is a valid point. Are u interested in doing one Will?

 

See u

*Fuchur*

[Fuchur]

smiles. I think everyone here was being good intentioned it sometimes comes off a little sharper in black and white. I think everyone likes the videos --and to comment on accent or any part of a production is fair. I mispronounce words all the time so if i made a video and one of those popped out--smiles . I would go yep that sucked. If you called me out on that i would go. yep that sucked and not get upset. It sucked.

 

Should the production values be professional if included in the software? Probably yes. I think that is all some folks are saying.

 

Now that said there is always a place for tutorials that are not up to the professional standards but maybe not connected to the software directly as it were.

 

And Gerald --any video you make I would be happy to see and watch over and over ---so please do not refrain ---they are really helpful and useful and a great contribution to the community. Thanks.

 

Thanks, good to hear that they are of use to some users.

 

See u

*Fuchur*

[zandoriastudios]

I haven't watched the introductory videos...but, it is pretty lame to be so defensive about a harsh critique--a new purchaser of the software isn't going to care that it was done by a volunteer.

 

I think this is a valid point. Are u interested in doing one Will?

 

See u

*Fuchur*

 

Yes, but I am very rambling and drawl my words with a southern accent Maybe what we need is a talented voice-over from someone like Greg Rostami!!! We could do the demos, and someone more polished could narrate overtop--that would give it some cohesiveness.

[Vertexspline]

Sure getting someone who is professional would be amazing but tricky to get I suppose and doing a play by play as it were would be an added hurdle to make it cohessive.

 

My own 2 cents on this subject is - Robert H. has a pretty good voice , knows AM very well ,is making some of these videos already and would seem a good voice of AM if he wants to be such as it were.

 

I realize time to make videos is difficult for anyone but if we are thinking others can make some videos and you want one voice----- Robert seems like a natural fit. And not to be volunteering you Robert------just thinking for easy solutions here. Obviously , you have done some and will do more ofthem -- its more about getting some additional videos made by others and then having you narrate them . Smiles. (maybe I was volunteering you)

[Fuchur]

I understand everything furchur has said in his videos. I say keep up the good work man and when is Version 18 dropping??

 

It is in very early alpha. It will take some time till it is out. I'd say at least 4-6 Month or more.

(can't really be said till now)

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[Fuchur]

I haven't watched the introductory videos...but, it is pretty lame to be so defensive about a harsh critique--a new purchaser of the software isn't going to care that it was done by a volunteer.

 

I think this is a valid point. Are u interested in doing one Will?

 

See u

*Fuchur*

 

Yes, but I am very rambling and drawl my words with a southern accent Maybe what we need is a talented voice-over from someone like Greg Rostami!!! We could do the demos, and someone more polished could narrate overtop--that would give it some cohesiveness.

 

I think a good native speaker should be enough. Of course it would be even better to have someone with a professional voice-training background, but that is expensive and since such persons dont know the technology itself, it can be quite hard to do that. (in general they can do it quite well, but still that is just very expensive for tutorials). In the end, I have not seen any tutorials (including the once from companies like VideoCopilot and Co) who really did a professional voice over... I just dont think it is necessary. The voice needs to be sympathic (I am aware that this is very subjective) and needs to be good with words, but if it has a southern accent or not: Who cares...

 

I'd say, since Robert started it and I like his voice too, he is the best person to do this. In general I wouldn't have a problem when the tutorials would be done by several persons (especially if one would do one about modelling, another about rigging, etc.) if they have the same structural and graphical approach to them. If Robert is not willing or just cant find the time to do it, someone else could take over and do the others...

 

I see it even more pragmatic: Having videos which introduce people to the software is better than not having such, no matter if they are very professionally done or a little less professional. In general I even like tutorials which do not sound like marketing better than the other once, but that is a matter of taste too. In the end: The better the videos, the better the introduction but getting it done at all is very important too.

 

Robert, your thoughts about that?

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[Rodney]

Robert, your thoughts about that?

 

Robert said he was going to be out of town for a little while... so it may be a little while before he responds.

(or did I imagine that)

[Gerry]

I would also like to point out that if the free tutorials created by users are not sufficient, there are some excellent tuts you can BUY, y'know. Barry Zundel has a whole slate of tutorials for like five bucks a pop, and if that's too much to invest in your career, pick another career.

[Dpendleton77]

What other tutorials are out there for besides Barry's? I have been trying to find the Anzovin (sp).

[Gerry]

Well, there are Jeff Lew's, which are general animation tuts but he uses AM to demonstrate everything; and there's the Anzovin tuts which were a topic of discussion in another thread here, re: posting them or making them downloadable from the forum, but I don't know where that ever went. I've got some of them and they're excellent.

 

Of course Will Sutton has a whole YouTube channel with some highly useful lessons. I learned a ton about decaling from his examples.

 

Barry's are made with AM2005 but the info is about 95% still current. I highly recommend them. I was going to do a modeling tut awhile back when I was in the process of modeling a new character, but I saw Barry's modeling tuts and realized I have no business trying to teach this stuff when there's content like his available.

 

P.S. I prefer "tute" to "tut" but I'm caving in to peer pressure.

[Dpendleton77]

Well, there are Jeff Lew's, which are general animation tuts but he uses AM to demonstrate everything; and there's the Anzovin tuts which were a topic of discussion in another thread here, re: posting them or making them downloadable from the forum, but I don't know where that ever went. I've got some of them and they're excellent.

 

Of course Will Sutton has a whole YouTube channel with some highly useful lessons. I learned a ton about decaling from his examples.

 

Barry's are made with AM2005 but the info is about 95% still current. I highly recommend them. I was going to do a modeling tut awhile back when I was in the process of modeling a new character, but I saw Barry's modeling tuts and realized I have no business trying to teach this stuff when there's content like his available.

 

P.S. I prefer "tute" to "tut" but I'm caving in to peer pressure.

I have most of Barry's and I have looked through Will's vids. I have use a mash up of Malo,Will's, and Alonso tutes and boy is it a life saver.

[Fuchur]

If you are after video-tutorials: There are more video tutorials from me, if it helps. If you are able to understand me of course:

PW3d: Tutorial section

 

They are often covering a little more specialized topics but maybe of use nevertheless.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[Gerry]

Sorry, could you type that a little slower please?

[detbear]

Hey Fuchur!

 

Just wanted to say that I really have appreciated your tutorials. I've gotten some really great info from

them and they have been most helpful in my opinion. I think your tutorials are great.

 

Cheers,

 

William

[robcat2075]

As far as the intro tutorials that go with the new splash screen... I did commit to having those all done by some date that is so far in the past that I can't even remember when I promised to get them done.

 

It is my fault those are not done. It is not Hash's fault those are not done.

 

My tuts for for "Interface", "Texturing" and "Rendering" are up and the ones Fuchur has made to fill in the gaps in the meantime are much appreciated.