R Reynolds Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 The modeling is 99% done but I'm going to see how much detail I can add with normal and bump decals. I'm really impressed with how well normal decal rivet heads hold up under fairly close scrutiny, as shown in the shot of the rear of the tender, even when they're next to the modeled rivet heads attaching the handrails and ladder. By modeling the decaled heads with a low profile their lack of self shadowing isn't obvious in sunlight at grazing angles. The only downside is you can't apply a left hand normal decal, mirror it and apply it to the right side since the "polarity" of the mirrored decal is wrong, as shown in the third image. So you have to generate left and right side decals. Still far easier than adding modeled rivets. Quote
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 18, 2011 Hash Fellow Posted January 18, 2011 Good looking stuff! Great looking locomotive. Like something Superman should be trying to outrace. Interesting about the "polarity". Quote
HomeSlice Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 That's insane Roger. Would love to see it crashing through a train station... Quote
agep Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 You are the best Rodger! Impressive looking model! Quote
jakerupert Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 >The only downside is you can't apply a left hand normal decal, mirror it and apply it to the right side since the "polarity" of the mirrored decal is wrong, as shown in the third image. So you have to generate left and right side decals. Still far easier than adding modeled rivets. Maybe its ghone with 16. Great Model!!! Quote
Paul Forwood Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Stunning modelling, Roger! Regarding the polarity issue with bump/displacement maps, you can copy your decal and then apply it to the other side of the model, from the same view, and then change the bump/displacement property to a negative value, enabling you to use one map instead of two. Quote
Meowx Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 That's insane Roger. Would love to see it crashing through a train station... Seconded! Quote
R Reynolds Posted January 19, 2011 Author Posted January 19, 2011 Thanks for all the kind words. Would love to see it crashing through a train station... That only happens with those new fangled electric locomotives like DJBreit's GG1. I must confess, seeing it crash through a wall and then through the floor would be a pretty cool sequence! Quote
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 20, 2011 Hash Fellow Posted January 20, 2011 the French do it best: Quote
R Reynolds Posted January 31, 2011 Author Posted January 31, 2011 Since it's just a big flat sided box, the tender's an ideal test site for textures and materials. The surface shown is mostly just a dozen totally flat patches. Each riveted panel is built from one normal decal for the rivet heads and one bump decal containing the sheet metal waves, overall paint texture and the vertical seams. The bump textures all started as Fractal Sum materials, screen rendered and combined in PSPro. Quote
animas3D Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Love that subtle variation in the surface with the bump maps. Excuse my lack of knowledge here, but what exactly is a normal map. I've heard the term bandied around and think that I've seen some pretty dayglow colors on something one time, but I still have no idea what it is all about. How do they differ from bump maps? In any case the rivets look good (although they look like bump maps to me). Quote
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 31, 2011 Hash Fellow Posted January 31, 2011 Excuse my lack of knowledge here, but what exactly is a normal map. I've heard the term bandied around and think that I've seen some pretty dayglow colors on something one time, but I still have no idea what it is all about. How do they differ from bump maps? Bump maps approximate surface angle by how much the gray scale changes from one point to another. Although they resemble elevation maps each pixel isn't really representing a height. It's the difference in gray value compared to the neighboring pixels that is interpreted as surface angle. Normal maps store the angle (and height?) of that surface at each pixel adn don't depend on the value of neighboring pixels. The colors don't really mean much visually, they are just RGB values re purposed as XYZ values and those are used to drive the shader. Bump maps have the advantage of being easy to paint by hand and can also work as displacement maps. Neither Bump nor Normal maps create any actual surface displacement, just the shaded illusion of it. That's my layman's explanation. I don't really understand the math of either one. Quote
HomeSlice Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Excuse my lack of knowledge here, but what exactly is a normal map. I've heard the term bandied around and think that I've seen some pretty dayglow colors on something one time, but I still have no idea what it is all about. How do they differ from bump maps? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_mapping Quote
R Reynolds Posted February 10, 2011 Author Posted February 10, 2011 ...what exactly is a normal map....How do they differ from bump maps? I use bump maps when I'm trying to simulate small dimensional surface variations like waviness or paint textures. Normal maps are more useful in simulating details that have serious surface geometry. For a rail side building, I wanted to use a normal decal for an architectural rosette detail. I built the detail from splines (shown in the center of the image) and used it to generate a bump and normal map which I applied to either side of the original model. Although neither decal can match the original patches, the normal decal comes closer. Quote
NancyGormezano Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 Nice example. I find it interesting that I prefer the normal map over the modeled! Quote
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted February 11, 2011 Hash Fellow Posted February 11, 2011 Nice example. I find it interesting that I prefer the normal map over the modeled! Yes. In that case the Normal version seems to do better at suggesting "AO" in the crevices in the absence of any AO, "Fake" or Real. Quote
R Reynolds Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 The streamlined sheet metal jacket on the locomotive is attached with a lot of sheet metal screws. I didn't want the patch overhead of modeled screw heads but normal mapped hex heads just weren't convincing. The best compromise was button head Phillips. They'll work in most shots as long as the camera doesn't linger too long. The screws heads shown in the image are 32 x 32 pixels which means for 3/4" (19mm) heads they have a resolution of 0.02" (0.6mm), more than adequate. For the interested few I'll upload the four hi-res normal decals (648x648) to the Images section of Shared Resources. Quote
John Bigboote Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 You are the best Rodger! Impressive looking model! Wow- a nice tip of the hat from Stian! The two of you are our Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig. Great work Rodger, awe-inspiring- how did I miss this thread back in January??? AND- I always wondered... who was this 'Phillips' guy... what exactly was wrong with his head... and why did they name a screwdriver after him??? (From my comedy routine that will never happen) Quote
R Reynolds Posted March 24, 2011 Author Posted March 24, 2011 Almost finished decaling the sheet metal details to the locomotive. Trying to find a realistic level of waviness took a lot of trial and error with the decal contrast. The only good way to see it is to have the surface reflect the surroundings which slowed the turnaround time on test renders. Quote
John Bigboote Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 Look at the 'rolls' in the metal. Perfect! Quote
John Bigboote Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 Rodger, are you using the 'nDo' normal map Photoshop action? http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showt...+normal+mapping Quote
HomeSlice Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 Really gorgeous surface. Makes me want to run my hand over it. Quote
John Bigboote Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 Almost finished decaling the sheet metal details to the locomotive. Trying to find a realistic level of waviness took a lot of trial and error with the decal contrast. Have you tried achieving this with the 'roughness' settings for the metal group? Maybe put the roughness really low... like .25, and the roughness scale really high, like 700%. Quote
R Reynolds Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 are you using the 'nDo' normal map...Have you tried achieving this with the 'roughness' settings All textures comes from images generated within A:M, normal decals generated using MakeNormalMap (documented here) and massaged in Paintshop Pro. First flatten the section of interest in an action, decide where you want sheet metal joints (e.g. every 60 inches (1.5 m)) and put markers at those locations. In a separate model (see first attached image) build a flat patch 60 inch long with a "joint" (actually a 1/8 in. (3 mm) trough whose normals will render well) at one end. Copy and paste models of rivet heads at appropriate intervals along the joint and do a screen render. Import the screen render to the paint program and replace the rendered rivet heads with the Phillips head screws normal maps from here. Apply these screwed joint normal decals at the marked intervals on the flattened model. Build another flat test surface with the same dimensions without any joint and apply a material with a combination of Fractal Sum combiners. The primary or outer Fractal Sum is scaled to represent the larger waves across the metal sheet, grey values above 127 are hills and below 127 are valleys. The hills and valleys are also built from their own secondary or inner Fractal Sums with much smaller scales to represent the paint texture commonly known as "orange peel". These inner combiners use the same grey value difference of 8 levels for the hills and valleys so the orange peel is the same over the entire surface. For instance an almost flat painted panel texture uses four grey values close to 127; 140 & 132 for the hills and 124 & 116 for the valleys while a wavy panel uses 216 & 208 for the hills and 48 & 40 for the valleys. (Finding theses values by trial and error with full renders as feedback can consume a lot of time). Screen render and grab the section twice, once with material grey values that represent an almost flat panel and again with wavy panel grey values. In your paint program combine the two images with very diffuse transitions so the central section is wavy while the screwed edges are almost flat (see second attached image). For each metal sheet on the model, move the material on the test surface by much more than 60 in., re-render and massage. Finally apply each image as a bump decal so it's edges align with your normal decal joint edges. Since the bumps on each decal are mismatched at the joint you'll reinforce the illusion that they are individual panels. Clearly this not as easy as using the roughness settings but it gives you WAY more control over the look and location of the surface finish. Quote
R Reynolds Posted May 6, 2011 Author Posted May 6, 2011 I'm in the midst of adding colours such that it looks like it was washed some time ago; not too dirty but not too clean as well. Still trying to find the right balance between material dirt and decal dirt. Quote
mouseman Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 Color/colour me impressed! Very nice looking, very effective weathering texturing! Quote
UNGLAUBLICHUSA Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 This is the kind of inspiring work that keeps my creative juices flowing! All I can say is 3 thumbs up! 10 out of 5 stars! Unglaublich!!! Quote
John Bigboote Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 It looks like a beautiful illustration, something you would see on the wall in some high-power executives office. Nice, really nice. Quote
NancyGormezano Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 Perhaps because you haven't modeled any lubrication nipples is the reason there are no grease spots ? .... it needs oil stains, you crazy man you ! (My wise-ass HOn30 husband made me to say that) Incredible! Quote
R Reynolds Posted May 7, 2011 Author Posted May 7, 2011 ...you haven't modeled any lubrication nipples... Ya'got me there but I'd be more impressed by your husband's nitpicking if he'd noticed that this movie prop locomotive never existed; combining the layout and running gear from the first prototype shown, the streamlining and paint cues from the second and the colour palette from the third. The movie's producer/director told the production designer "I don't care if it's an authentic reproduction, it just has to look cool and believable, to me". Quote
NancyGormezano Posted May 7, 2011 Posted May 7, 2011 I bring concession message from anal-retentive husband (who models truly microscopic details NO ONE would ever see): "GOOD JOB!" Quote
*A:M User* Shelton Posted May 7, 2011 *A:M User* Posted May 7, 2011 Nancy Your husband models in HOn3? We have a huge following here in the Tulsa area. Not me though, Ho for me. Sorry Rodger not trying to steal your thread. Wonderful work as usual!!! Steve Quote
NancyGormezano Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 Nancy Your husband models in HOn3? We have a huge following here in the Tulsa area. Not me though, Ho for me. Ahh, I figured there was something weird about you . Ken models in HO scale, n30, n3, and regular. But mainly he does rolling stock and structures. He also use to manufacture & sell kits (as a hobby-side biz), but is winding down with that. Stevens Creek Models. He's getting much more into photography now. (Sorry Rodger, if this is too distracting. I thought you might also be interested) Quote
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted May 8, 2011 Hash Fellow Posted May 8, 2011 Ken models in HO scale, n30, n3, and regular. But mainly he does rolling stock and structures. He also use to manufacture & sell kits (as a hobby-side biz), but is winding down with that. Stevens Creek Models. I've never seen scale model seagulls before. Quote
NancyGormezano Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 I've never seen scale model seagulls before. It's a sickness. No hope. Quote
jakerupert Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 Hi Rodger, Outstanding model! Will it be used in a movieproduction? Did you model it in relation to reallifescale within AM or to HO scale? Would it matter for anything anyway? (I try to keep my models all "reallifescale" so that I can bring them all together lateron in chorscenes. Running into problems with huge spacecraft though.) Quote
R Reynolds Posted May 10, 2011 Author Posted May 10, 2011 Will it be used in a movie production? I have two pieces of instrumental music in mind that I think would make good soundtracks for short videos involving my railroad. Kinda like Fantasia where the music inspires the action. Did you model it in relation to reallifescale within AM or to HO scale? I model everything "full" scale except for the sky dome (a quarter mile diameter hemisphere) within which my railroad exists. Would it matter for anything anyway?...Running into problems with huge spacecraft... As you point out, it does matter because there are accuracy limits to the floating point operations at the heart of A:M. There really are objects that are too big or too small to model in full scale. So if you wanted to do a "cosmic zoom" shot from a planet to a paramecium you're going to have to cheat the scale. (The reason for my quarter mile sky). Although I wonder whether the move to a 64 bit environment expands our modeling limits. Sorry...not trying to steal your thread. Don't even mention it. Distractions make richer discussions. Quote
jakerupert Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 So please allow me to distract a little more. The spacecraft you can see in the second link of my signature, might be too big for smooth handling then? I wonder, if there is a fast and easy way to scale all the models in a chor to lets say halfsize. It would be quite cumbersome to do it model by model. Hm, maybe one action for every model could do it....... Quote
NancyGormezano Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 I wonder, if there is a fast and easy way to scale all the models in a chor to lets say halfsize. right click on the chor - NEW/Folder drag models to folder in chor right click on folder/select children change scale of the first one to 50%, all will have the scale changed Quote
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted May 10, 2011 Hash Fellow Posted May 10, 2011 You can also just Shift-select all the models and either scale one manually or enter numbers in its scale props. Quote
jakerupert Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 Nancy, Robert, Thats fantastically easy! Thanks a lot! Quote
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