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Hash, Inc. - Animation:Master

"Ebon" lipsync test


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Hey folks. Just wanted to pop by, in case anyone was wondering where I'd gone, or heard I'd switched to another app, or something.

 

Rest assured I'm still plugging away, spending my nights and weekends in A:M, bringing "Ebon" to life. Here's a new lipsync test, for example:

 

lipsync_shot11-1.jpg

 

Six-second clip (1.6MB): http://ebon.org/images/forForums/lipsync_shot11-1.mov

 

There are a number of reasons why I haven't been around much lately--one of them is simply that I've been posting my work-in-progress details on my own production blog instead of here. Nothing personal, honest! It's all part of the publicity-building machinery, laying the groundwork for even more ambitious animation projects to come. In the future. If I ever finish this short.

 

Anyway, I hope you're all well, and do let me know if you have any questions...

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Wow! Exciting, intense scene! Keep it up! I looked in on some of your blog and things are really looking progressive. Once you get this scene completed, I doubt it will take you long to finish the rest. The begining is the hard part.

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It is good to see you posting again, Mike! And good to see that you are continuing to make progress with Ebon.

 

This update looks excellent but I feel that Ebon could be more expressive if she blinked just before she says, "don't", as she lowers her head, and maybe when the foreground figure turns away from her. Blinks help to convey something going on inside, an emotional struggle. But what do I know? Perhaps vampires don't need to blink. Also this is just my personal opinion and may have already tried using blinks and found that it doesn't work as you would like in this shot.

 

Very nice render and lip sync. The blog is very good too. :)

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I still think rendering at 12 fps rather than 24 would give you a more authentic toon look.

That wouldn't surprise me. But with keyframes already built for 24 fps, re-optimizing the animation for 12 would be no small undertaking. I promise to do some tests, though, and if 12fps ends up looking better, I'll consider making it my standard on subsequent shorts.

 

Are those bandage lines decaled?

Yes, they are.

 

This update looks excellent but I feel that Ebon could be more expressive if she blinked just before she says, "don't", as she lowers her head, and maybe when the foreground figure turns away from her.

Agreed. I was supposed to do a blink pass, but I forgot!

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I think the comment by 3DArtz says it all. I've seen some stuff that makes it on TV with lipsync that doesn't touch what you've got going in this clip. Not to mention the new Ninja Turtles movie (which you know I loved, and which was totally awesome) -- the lipsync in that shouldn't have made it to rendering.

 

As always, I'm whipping a team of cheerleaders into a rooting frenzy for ya.

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Great Mikes back! Was wondering after ya man. Thought maybe the stress had finally gotten to ya and you'd jumped off the ol' bridge or something :) Welcome back!! Glad to hear you've still been making progress!

 

-Ethan

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or heard I'd switched to another app

 

Where ever would we get that idea!? ;)

 

Looking good. Though personally, I would change the camera angle at the end where her hand comes across her face.

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  • 3 weeks later...
what is your toon setting look like?

 

The line thickness is 0.7, and the bias varies from group to group. I render lines separately at 720p for these test renders, and downscale them in post. The final short will likely be done at 720p, so I'll render the lines at 1080p for that—they'll look a little thicker than they do in this test.

 

No settings for the toon shader; I use regular lighting.

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what is your toon setting look like?

 

The line thickness is 0.7, and the bias varies from group to group. I render lines separately at 720p for these test renders, and downscale them in post. The final short will likely be done at 720p, so I'll render the lines at 1080p for that—they'll look a little thicker than they do in this test.

 

No settings for the toon shader; I use regular lighting.

 

interesting using realistic background and toon character. kind of remind me of Titan AE:

 

very nice bathroom!

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  • 1 month later...

Just for "fun," I decided to render out shots 4 and 5 at 1280x720, the final resolution that this project will be mastered at. It was a demanding test of my entire production workflow, and it forced me to refine many of the techniques I've been using to put this animation together. It also brought my computer to its knees--the 25-second sequence you see here represents many, many overnight renders composited together.

 

Just how big is a 720p animation?

 

Shots4-5_720p.jpg

 

Oh, it's pretty big.

 

(I took the liberty of generating a 720x400 version for those of you without the latest hardware--at least you'll be able see what these two shots would look like on DVD...)

 

Download: FULL-RES 1280x720 version (h.264)

 

Download: DVD-RES 720x400 version (divx)

 

NOTE: These clips are out of date--There's a newer one at the bottom of this page...

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It also brought my computer to its knees--the 25-second sequence you see here represents many, many overnight renders composited together.

 

Is it the set and its lighting that takes most of the time? The characters alone ought to be rather fast rendering.

 

Are you doing the depth of field effect in A:M or in post?

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Is it the set and its lighting that takes most of the time? The characters alone ought to be rather fast rendering.

 

Oh, they are, but fast is relative when the shot is 25 seconds long, and you're rendering at 1280x720. The toon lines take a little over one minute per frame to render, which is good, but that's still 600 minutes, which definitely makes it an overnight render.

 

The set is rarely a problem to render, because for most shots, it's only a still frame. That, plus the fact that I made sure that all the lights in the set are either Z-buffered or non-shadow-casting.

 

The real time-killer is the raytraced sunlight. I gave up when I started seeing 30-minute-per-frame render times. In the end I went with ambient-light maps on the walls, and a separate volumetrics layer rendered out at quarter-res, scaled up and blurred. Even at quarter-res, the five-second volumetric layer in shot 5 took 36 hours.

 

 

Are you doing the depth of field effect in A:M or in post?

The set uses true DOF, since I don't have a depth map. The characters are rack-focused in post.

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  • Hash Fellow

It sounds like you're doing all the time-saving work-arounds already.

 

One anomaly i notice after several viewings is that it's pretty much in clear focus from front to back at the beginning but then the front goes out of focus while the back can't get any more in focus than it was. Also the details in the forground wall get more blurred than the foreground character.

 

But those aren't shot killers.

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Who-ho-ho! Luckbat's back! ...or I'm back and Luckbat's here with new stuff! And it looks great. I really enjoyed every clip in this thread, it's a very good example of great things one can acomplish with tonn rendering.

 

Cheers,

J

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  • 2 weeks later...

New (and hopefully final) 720p version of shots 4 and 5:

 

http://ebon.org/images/forForums/Shots4-5_...-2_1280x720.mov

 

Changes in this edition:

  • DOF rack-focus now more visually accurate
  • Slight remodeling of Ebon's lower lip; new "mouth-corners" pose added
  • Laborious keyframe revisions so minor as to be imperceptible to everyone but Robcat
  • Room tone, some SFX added; all dialog replaced with alternate takes for some reason

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It looks great, Mike... But it looked great a couple revs ago - I'm afraid you've exceeded my ability to make sophisticated distinctions. Now, my appetite is whetted to see the rest of the story. What happened to his "people" already?

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  • 3 months later...

Shot_1.jpg

 

Okay, this is going to be a little weird, animating backwards in chunks like this, but you work with what you have.

 

So, remember shots 4 and 5, posted way back in August? Well, to that pile I add the newly completed shots 1 and 2. Not only is there no lipsync in these shots, making the title of this thread increasingly inaccurate, but since there's no sound in this new clip, I couldn't really cut it together with shots 4-5. So you'll have to do the editing in your head.

 

Watch: Shots 1-2

(1280x720, 10.2MB)

 

You'll notice a bit of shot 4 at the end, there. Shot 3 was removed during the storyboarding stage long ago, so with these last two clips, you now have the first four shots of the scene.

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Fixed.

 

Yes indeed. That worked.

 

Upping the rez makes quite a difference.Very nice.

 

Did you change the toon line from your original pass at this?

It looks cleaner/crisper. (perhaps the resolution?)

 

 

Edit: I went back a few posts and found this. For those interested:

The line thickness is 0.7, and the bias varies from group to group. I render lines separately at 720p for these test renders, and downscale them in post. The final short will likely be done at 720p, so I'll render the lines at 1080p for that—they'll look a little thicker than they do in this test.

 

No settings for the toon shader; I use regular lighting.

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The dripping faucet looks good the first and 2nd drip.. but then even though it is

blurred out, gets distracting....

 

But again, these are just nitpicks.

Overall the scene looks really good.

I like the blood from the scrapes after he clenches his fist.

 

Mike Fitz

www.3dartz.com

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  • 1 year later...

Hi dre4mer, thanks for remembering me!

 

The "Ebon" project was put on hold due to lack of resources. The test scene I had been working on remains 80% complete or so, but getting that last 20% done proved beyond the limits of the technology I was working with at the time.

 

Although I've moved on to a new celshaded project since then, I'm still strongly considering finishing the "Ebon" scene when I have some more free time, and posting it publicly. At this point, it would probably only require a couple more months' work.

 

Just wanted you to know that I'm still out there, still doing toon-style animation.

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  • 3 years later...

Yeah- this thread serves as a time-capsule from a bygone era... see how supportive Martin could be? It made you feel real good. Lots of former forum-mates here too, the late-great Paul Forewood, dre4mer(who I think is now in the medical profession), Ruscular, Paul Daley, Dennis Borruso, Mike Fitz... *snurf*

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Yeah- this thread serves as a time-capsule from a bygone era... see how supportive Martin could be? It made you feel real good. Lots of former forum-mates here too, the late-great Paul Forewood, dre4mer(who I think is now in the medical profession), Ruscular, Paul Daley, Dennis Borruso, Mike Fitz... *snurf*

I talked to Mike on twitter and he said Ebon might come back. Sadly he will be using another tool.

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the Ottoman project looks pretty cool!--looks like Mike, Jim, Dhar, and a few other A:M alumni involved. And based on their blog--looks like the online collaborators were able to meet-up for a "hash-bash" type of get together.

I really miss that community that we had back in that era when the first hash-bash happened and we all stayed at Martin's house and everything was possible....

DSCF0012.JPG

DSCF0032.JPG

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