Golden Gate Bridge High Detail model

MMZ_TimeLord · February 13, 2006

Well, here is the 'in progress' renders of a section of the roadway deck and of the south tower.

Lots of detail to add to the top of the south tower and more for under the road deck.

Also there are many MANY other lights that are designed to illuminate the towers at night, so I'll be adding those as well.

This model will have the lights added. I will probably need some help with that as I'm not quite sure how Yves did his skylights with only one light and the action added it numerous times to the skydome.

I'd like to do the same thing here, where all the regular street lights are copies of one 'type' of light and the spot (klieg) lights for the tower illumination will be another one, etc.

That way the end users won't be bogged down with hundreds of lights to adjust if they are not happy with them. They can just tweak the few 'parent' lights to taste.

Anyone that can help me with the lights, please chime in. :wacko:

Lastly, I will be including a lower patch version as this high res version will probably go over 50,000 patches. :blink: :huh: :wacko:

Enjoy... comments and critiques are welcome.

Paul Forwood · February 13, 2006

Very nice detailing!

I saw a very interesting program on the restoration of the Golden Gate bridge recently and was amazed to learn that every single piece of the bridge was re-designed, improved and replaced during the works to withstand the most extreme earthquakes. What an amazing feat!

Keep your hard hat on and always wear a safety harness!

Nice work! Are you making this to any particular scale?

KenH · February 13, 2006

Very cool. Now when you're done, get your butt over to TWO!

ddustin · February 13, 2006

TL,

Very nice detail!

Perhaps you could allow the uses to mix and match sections of the low rez and high rez versions, that way they could only use the high patch count portions where the extra detail was needed?

50k patches is going to choke most systems isn't it?

Just a thought, but it looks great.

David

R Reynolds · February 13, 2006

Excellent start.

May I suggest you experiment using Action Objects. I am currently using them to build a large building with a lot of identical but repeating detail and am so far quite happy with the result. It's also how you multiply one light source into a skylight rig.

In the case of the the bridge you start with a new action using some base model, say the finished tower. Now you can import a new object into the action; i.e. a copy of the tower but positioned to be the north tower. Next import and position multiple copies of the roadbed to build the bridge. The beauty of this process is that you can build a highly detailed structure and still keep the patch count reasonable. (And with the new displacement feature in v13, you can add 3D rivet heads as repeating decals). You'll run that same play again for the lights; make a new light source then import and position copies inside the action.

Once you're in a choreography, you import and position the base model, apply the "construction" action and your bridge is built.

So far, the only downside I can see to building structures this way is you'll have to keep the texturing fairly subtle on each model sub-unit because that texturing will repeat as well.

KenH · February 13, 2006

So far, the only downside I can see to building structures this way is you'll have to keep the texturing fairly subtle on each model sub-unit because that texturing will repeat as well.

You could add finesse textures in the chor right?

Dhar · February 13, 2006

Whoa Jody, I admire your courage, you have undertaken a tremendous task. I've always wanted to model that bridge, but every time I cross it I get discouraged because of the insane amount of detail it has, especially the underneath structure. The steel ropes alone are a project of their own.

Are you going by a blue print?

R Reynolds · February 13, 2006

You could add finesse textures in the chor right?

No. Neither in the chor nor the action. Unless I'm missing something, there's no access to tweaking anything within the imported objects, just their location and orientation.

luckbat · February 13, 2006

Unless I'm missing something, there's no access to tweaking anything within the imported objects, just their location and orientation.

This is true, but you can add poses to objects that you plan to use multiple times with variations in a Chor.

Those poses could control decals, additional geometry, proportions, or anything else you'd care to vary.

KenH · February 13, 2006

No. Neither in the chor nor the action. Unless I'm missing something, there's no access to tweaking anything within the imported objects, just their location and orientation.

Huh? Surely you can in an action. Isn't that the whole basis of flatening and texturing...in an action?

Are you using a recent version. I think it's become less "friendly" but I found a way a while ago....

If you drag the decal into the model window first. Don't apply it and right click>stop positioning.

Then go into your action/chor.

Now right click on the decal folder in the model window> Position and the decal should appear in your action/chor window waiting to be applied.

R Reynolds · February 13, 2006

Surely you can in an action. Isn't that the whole basis of flatening and texturing...in an action?

I guess action objects are treated differently than when you are manipulating the base model. As you can see in the attached image, the model I brought into the action has both groups with materials and decals but none of that is exposed as a fully expanded instance of an action object.

Mike has a work around but it means assembling the model in a chor which doesn't seem as elegant to me. Can you drop poses on action objects?

KenH · February 13, 2006

I tried my method, but I get a #001 exception error when trying to apply it to the action object in the chor. Sending a report.

MMZ_TimeLord · February 13, 2006

Thanks for all the comments folks.

Dahr, I'm actually basing the general dimensions on a dxf I found on the net (VERY basic structure). But all the details are being done off of archive photos from university websites (UC Berkeley, etc.) and any other photos I have scrounged up from the net.

And yes Ken, I'll get back on the TWO project. I've was seriously distracted last week with the death of my wife's father. (Italian family on her side, so we were all very close. They live about 25 miles away.)

I intend on using simple detail decals for displacing the rivets.

And yes, I was contemplating action objects to control the actual patch count in the choreography. i.e. - adding low action to the model would give you simple handrails, light posts and superstructure (girders). Medium action would make these slightly more detailed and of course high action would put full details in.

Again, I'll need to play with the action objects some to understand how that works.

Anyone know a short tutorial that explains it? I can't seem to find it.

Anyhoo... I'm working on the top of the towers today. I should be able to post a few more updates soon.

MMZ_TimeLord · February 14, 2006

Whew! Here's another WIP picture of the top of the south tower.

There's a TON of detail on just the top of these towers...

Take a look at the reference photo for proof. :huh: :blink:

The original TIF image of that reference photo is 4 times that size! Excellent for seeing the small stuff.

Stuart Rogers · February 14, 2006

I guess action objects are treated differently than when you are manipulating the base model. As you can see in the attached image, the model I brought into the action has both groups with materials and decals but none of that is exposed as a fully expanded instance of an action object.
... Can you drop poses on action objects?

If the object you're using as an Action Object has a pose, that pose can be adjusted within the action, but not in the chor (well, not directly). You can also apply constraints to the Action Object's bones. I've used this approach on a generic piston I used as an Action Object: I adjusted the piston diameter via a pose, and then constrained the piston's base and plunger bones to bones in the action's target object. At a later stage I intend using poses to control 'animated' grunge maps, so in the action I can select one of several grunge maps. Hey presto, one model looks different in each instance.

MMZ_TimeLord · February 15, 2006

Okay, after seeing the reference photo side-by-side with my render, I realized that some of it was WAY out of proportion... so, after much toil... I have a new progress picture for everyone.

More handrails, properly scaled handrails, and one of the tower's marker lights.

Enjoy...

ddustin · February 15, 2006

Okay, after seeing the reference photo side-by-side with my render, I realized that some of it was WAY out of proportion... so, after much toil... I have a new progress picture for everyone.

More handrails, properly scaled handrails, and one of the tower's marker lights.

Enjoy...

You may want to be a little careful hanging your hat on a single picture.

Sometimes the perspective from an image can throw you off.

Looks great to me as far as detail.

David

Dhar · February 15, 2006

The handrail :blink: Are you actually gonna count how many bars in there?

MMZ_TimeLord · February 15, 2006

David,

Actually I have about 6 different pictures of the top of the tower from various angles, perspectives and distances, so it was pretty clear that the finned cable support structure was WAY too tall as well as the handrail.

Last little thing that bugs me is that all the angle iron in the shot is too wide so I may thin it up to match the main reference shot.

Now I've got a few more light fixtures, steps, access hatch, cable clamps outside the finned support and a few other details and I'll call the top done.

Then I'll move back to the walkway around the towers and add more details there.

Then I'll start building the main cable sections with the mounts for the roadway support cables.

Dahr,

Not counting them, just trying to recreate them properly.

agep · February 15, 2006

Looking great so far. I just love complex models

I found this blueprint of the bridge, Its not very detailed though. But could be an nice resource to nail down the overall bridge proportion. But I'm sure you have a pile of blueprints already.

http://www.bcbones.com/maps/GoldenGateBridgeBluePrint.pdf

MMZ_TimeLord · February 15, 2006

Actually I have NO blueprints at all.

The document you pointed me to is actually a blueprint for a wooden golden gate bridge puzzle that is 60 inches long. A couple of the tower facts will come in handy.

MMZ_TimeLord · February 17, 2006

Okay, so handrails are more porportional now, second light marker is added and the steps.

Now just to add the turnbuckles, cable bases and maintenance hatch and I'll call the tower top done.

Then it's onto superstructure, roadway, tower spotlights and main cable details.

After that, final assembly... WHEEE!!!

Caution: HD 1080i picture

KenH · February 17, 2006

Noooice. Give it some highlights!

DanCBradbury · February 17, 2006

Do you need all this detail jody? One thing i notice is that you put a lot of detail in some of the smallest objects when the rather massive objects are left with rather low patch counts. Why dont you just build a low patch sections of the bridge for further away shots? Anywho, great model. Cant wait to see it all together.

MMZ_TimeLord · February 17, 2006

I won't need this level of detail on the medium or low detail versions, but on the high detail version, I will.

Not done with the towers as a whole yet by a long shot. Lots more detail to add. (Catwalks, conduit, safety nets, etc.)

Also, I'm going to see what I can do with texturing the rivet detials too...

Another update, I got the turnbuckles in this evening after dinner.

Two more items and the tower tops are done (minus texturing).

The thing I'm trying to stay away from here is proceedural textures of any kind as the patch count alone is going to be a CPU killer.

Caution: another 1080i image...

DanCBradbury · February 17, 2006

Looking good. For the amount of detail you put into that tower light and the wire support clips, the hand rails look realy 2D. Are they supposed to look like that?

MMZ_TimeLord · February 18, 2006

Dan,

Thanks for the comments. The handrails are actually 3-D. They are just very thin angle iron type. I may thincken them up or simply give all the splines a 10% bias to give a small curve to them.

If you look at the lower handrails on the left, you can see there is a small flat edge on the front of the horizontal rails.

They are a true thin 'L' shapes so there are six CPs making up the cross-section of each one. Just like real angle-iron.

DanCBradbury · February 18, 2006

I see. When you say bias do you mean magnatude? anywho, you should do an AO render. I think it's the realy sharp light angles and stiff shadow contrast that are making this thing look 2d.

Good stuff jody.

MMZ_TimeLord · February 18, 2006

I tried an AO render exactly like I did the pocket watch for Greg "gschumsky", but it came out all weird... I'll try it again tonight.

I may have to let it render over night though... the last render I posted took an hour to render (LOTS of patches I guess)

robcat2075 · February 18, 2006

You could add finesse textures in the chor right?

No. Neither in the chor nor the action. Unless I'm missing something, there's no access to tweaking anything within the imported objects, just their location and orientation.

If you enable "Show more than Drivers" you get access to all the groups in a model. You can assign different materials to the same named group on different instances of the model. I tried this recently.

If you absolutely had to deal in decals for textures you could make them animated textures and freeze the texture on different frames for different instances of the model. I haven't tried this yet.

mtpeak2 · February 19, 2006

You can setup a pose slider to adjust an image sequence (different frames of the sequence for different percentages on the slider). You could also add multiple images to a decal and using pose slider adjust the percentage of the images to turn them on and off or combine them. This all can be done in the PWS also using the shortcut to model. I just like using pose sliders if it's something I will reuse in different projects.

MMZ_TimeLord · February 21, 2006

Okay, got the scale of everything tweaked and my assembly action almost done.

Here is a render of the assembly action as it is now. (Yes, I know I only have one main cable and no stringers.)

The South Tower will have the skirt split out to a separate object so I can add it just to the South Tower and not the North Tower.

I also have to make a custom section of roadway for the towers so as to link up the sidewalks that go around the towers.

More to do, but the nice thing is that now the total model patches of the pieces should come in under 50,000 patches, while the actual rendered model will be 400,000+ patches visible. :huh: :blink:

Then it's on to texturing the parts so that it has more of a real world feel.

CAUTION!: These renders are 4096 pixels wide!

Dhar · February 21, 2006

Awesome work Jody, just awesome

Hey, I work in San Mateo. How about a Starbuck's ?

Paul Forwood · February 21, 2006

Pretty darn amazing, Jody!

MMZ_TimeLord · February 21, 2006

That's funny Dahr... I LIVE in San Mateo... do you go to the Starbucks on 4th? or the new one on 3rd?

Zaryin · February 21, 2006

Haven't commented on this yet, but this is great. I love mechanical modeling -- I just wish I was better at it .

MMZ_TimeLord · February 21, 2006

Another update with the walkways around the tower adjusted to match the new altered roadway sections.

This render is still from the action window.

Here are the patch counts I have so far for those interested.

__________________________________________Patch______Model________Total_Patches
Sub_Model_Name____________________________Count______Quantity_____in_Action
Tower_Top__________________________________2908________4______________11632
Main_Towers_(each)_________________________6362________2______________12724
South_Tower_Skirt____________________________42________1_________________42
Road_Deck_Sections_(Standard)______________7179_______41_____________294339
Road_Deck_Sections_(Tower)_________________4711________2_______________9422
Main_Cable_Sections*__________________________8________8_________________64
Road_Deck_Section_Cables_(Standard_Sec.)*___256______250______________64000

Overall_Model_(High_Detail_version)_______21466______________________392223

*-indicates esimated values at this time.

CAUTION!: Render is 4096 wide!

DanCBradbury · February 21, 2006

Is each one of those hand rail posts made? Are you sure you couldnt have got away with a transparancy and normal map? That's more patches than 23 of my WTC projects. Do you need all this detail?

MMZ_TimeLord · February 21, 2006

I don't know about 'need' Dan... this is an exercise for me in large scale high detail modeling.

I'm also trying to show off what A:M CAN do in this area.

Project Earth was an exercise in LARGE resolution decals, this one is an exercise in large scale models assembled in an action with very few parts that simply repeat a lot (roadway sections, streetlights, etc.).

I probably could have gotten away with simply duplicating the hand rail sections in the action as well, but making a single section that was 150 feet long was easier for me. Plus, I didn't have to try and match the arch of the roadway with the handrails.

It allowed the placement of the streetlights without additional items added in the action. The downside of doing it that way was that the street lights also start to tilt as the roadway angle changes. I may end up manually placing pairs of streetlights over the bases of the ones already in the action and then delete them from the roadway. That way, I don't have to guess or calculate their location.

Anyway... I've rambled on long enough... Back to work...

Dhar · February 21, 2006

That's funny Dahr... I LIVE in San Mateo... do you go to the Starbucks on 4th? or the new one on 3rd?

I go to the one on Polhemus & Ralston (Crystal Springs area by the 280/92?).

I rarely go downtown. But for you I will

John Bigboote · February 22, 2006

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?act=A...pe=post&id=4269

MMZ- I'm diggin your 'Golden Gate'... I modelled the 'Ambassador Bridge' tho not in such hi-detail, above is a link from an animation featuring that model...thought you might dig. Bridges are COOL!

Here are some pix of Detroit, MI and Windsor, ONT's Ambassador, a classic 1930's suspension bridge:

http://www.detroitbuildingtrades.org/newspapr/ambassador.jpg

http://detroit.rims.org/ChapterWebsite/Cus...dge_skyline.JPG

MattWBradbury · February 22, 2006

So are you going to add all of the bolts too? The only thing stoping me from making modles super mega ultra huge in scale and patch count is the stability of my computer.

MMZ_TimeLord · February 22, 2006

Nice bridge model there John!

I've seen that bridge before (in pictures and movies).

According to the history I dug up, the Golden Gate Bridge was started in 1933 completed in 1937 and shares quite a lot of details of design with Ambassador Bridge.

Nice animation of the vehicles too... your fault, now I'll have to make some vehicles and pedestrians... shame on you!

I'll probably pull them from the stock models that came with A:M and the first extra CD for that.

MMZ_TimeLord · February 22, 2006

Matt,

I will probably not add all the bolts, as there is just too many. I will probably try and use decals for a lot of the rivet details and bolt details. I'll have to see how slow that makes my system.

Right now, it's really not too bad in the action window when I hide the handrails and tower tops, really speeds things up. When I have all the details showing now it gets choppy when rotating the model assembly.

Again, this is to test A:M's limits, my machine's limits and maybe mine too...

MMZ_TimeLord · February 22, 2006

Okay, basic main cables are in place... all of 16 patches...

Here's a render closer to what a human could see from the ground.

Now I think I'll take a break from this for a day or two and work on my bootcamp.

Dhar · February 22, 2006

Jody, I think the San Francisco Board of Tourism will ask you to cease & desist this project. With such virtual reality detail, who'd want to visit Frisco?

Coming along just fine

MMZ_TimeLord · September 28, 2006

Okay, since I'm trying to complete this for the Extras II DVD... here's the current progress.

I've removed the main cables as I'm trying to use sweeper to make new and more detailed ones (small bug, so I may have to do it the old fasioned way. )

The main details I've added in the last few days are the walkways around the towers.

I've gotten the roadway cables modeled and I'm trying to use sweeper to place them, but it's becoming more time consuming as sweeper keeps slightly rotating the assembly on the guide spline (truncation errors again) as the scale is really huge.

Technodandy · September 28, 2006

Hi TimeLord,

Good looking work with your Golden Gate Bridge. I am trying to gleen some ideas from the progress you made so far. I have many idenical sections in my Carousel house project and I am trying to do duplicate them but the high my patch count gets the slower the proces goes. The idea of using the action window to do this may help. Right now though, I am toying with the idea of making a copy of a section changing its angle and making a seperate model for each.

By the way, on your bridge you may be able to apply the ideas I been trying for my project. I will be covering my model with scores of lights of differnet colors. I am using bone Light objects.

Technodandy

case · September 29, 2006

hey great job ive not been on hash in a year so iu hope i ccan still give adive great detail so far its coming along great you need the big metal swing ropes to add still but good job so keep us posted

Dhar · September 29, 2006

Glad to see you back at this endeavor Jody. Nice work man, keep it up.

Golden Gate Bridge High Detail model

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