cfree68f Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Here's a WIP of a superhero model I'm working on. I'm working from rotoscopes of a Superman Alex Ross drew. Looking for some input. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bigboote Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Nice mix of realism and artistic liberty. Great lighting...illustrative feel. Go-Go-Go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtaz Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Colin and yours super heroes ...... magnificent start ... as usual..... Peace Xtaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dearmad Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Wow. Interesting Reevishness to his face. Seems like the overall proportions are going to very heroic too- impressive as it is now. At this point the only thing I wonder about is if his nose weren't quite so- sharpened if he'd still look heroicly handsome and manly... looks a little... um... like there's some vanity to him with that nose. Just MHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 Dearmad. Sharp from the side or front, or both? I see what you mean with the side. I'll check that out. Thanks, C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 The "Alex Ross Superman" Jim Talbotski built (available on the CD) is from "Kingdom Come", my favorite Alex Ross book of all time (I also own an original page from Kingdom Come). Your model is excellent (and from a different Superman). It will be great. Martin Hash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachBG Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 An original page from Kingdom Come?! That's it, I'm visiting Vancouver by hook or by crook... someday... And back on topic, excellent model, Colin. I wish I had the money to commission you to do a Spidey... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Forwood Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Colin, a great choise of subject and a superb start to your model. I am so going to enjoy watching this progress. Any chance of a wireframe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharky Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Wow!!! Beautiful work, excellent! Keep it up! Cheers.. Sharky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaryin Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 It's looking great so far. Take it from me, building superheroes is not easy. Keep it going! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 Thanks again guys, I'll post wires soon. Martin. Yep Alex Ross is my favorite. I'm gonna have to see that original when I come to Seattle in April. So have the vault unlocked, and put the guard dogs out back. This one is from some sketches in "mythology" the art of Alex Ross. The actual model will end up being a different style hero from Super Man. more like Captain America in his outfit.. I'm just using Ross as a reference cause I love his style. Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeAnderson Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Great work! I love the definition. Keep up the nice work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 Forgive the unorthodox Wireframe presentation.. I was just playing around in photoshop. This is a cool technique and easy to do. One render and a little photoshop or after effects magic and you can get a terminator effect. Ice man.. the silver surfer.. you name it. and This is Hardware shaded. let me know if you want the usual wire style. Later, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypoissant Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Beautiful model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 Added the arms and hands. Again I've played in photoshop with the look a little. But you get the picture. I modeled the arms freestyle.. didnt want to take the time to adjust the rotoscope. ( the arms were down on it). I always want a second oppinion when I do that. I model from my mind and it looks fine. a year later it looks like crap. Any oppinions on the arms? C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 Oh and thanks Yves. Coming from someone who models like you. That means alot. Oh and thanks for that skin shader. Its awesome! C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenH Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I think I recognise those hands. On first seeing the image, I thought the arms looked too long. But looking furthur, I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypoissant Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Funny thing about the arms is that before I read your comment about them, I thought they had something strange. I don't have time to get my anatomy book out and make an analysis but from the feeling, I think they are a tad long and a tad low. They feel like the humerus is not connected with the collarbone at the shoulder joint. Apart from that, the model is superb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandoriastudios Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 great looking model, Colin! Looking at the arm position, it looks good as far as placement. The deltoid seems a little small from the front view. While that shape might look good in the arms down position, I think it would be "fuller" in the position he is in now. --But I'm having to try really hard to be picky, cause it looks so good!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutch Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I have tried many times to build a model along these lines without much success. Some day I will get it all worked out. As for the comments about the arms being too long; I do not think they are, I think maybe the thigh is too short and gives the illusion the arms are too long. I do wonder if his triceps muscle on the back of his arm may be hanging a bit too low. I am sure you wll get it all worked out and looking amazing in no time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 I finished the model. Thanks Yves and William for the suggestions.. I made the changes and it helped alot. Now I'm playing with Costume. Here are two options... what do you think? be honest. Thanks for the input. Keep it coming.. and you can be as brutal as you want. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckbat Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Thanks for the input. Keep it coming.. and you can be as brutal as you want. Okay, you asked for it. Keep in mind that it's a little intimidating critiquing a guy whose avatar is the Incredible Hulk. I don't wanna make you angry. The top costume is okay--a little minimalist, but what's wrong with that? It shows a tasteful Tron influence which should play well with the over-30 demographic. What has to go, though, is the pointless stripe across the midsection. Not only does it sit there, slapped-on, like the stripe down the middle of a highway, it doesn't match the elegant circuitry gradients on the hands and feet. Personally, I'd prefer no stripe at all, which would draw the eye to the extremities and imply that the hero's powers are energy bolts from his hands, plus perhaps the ability to fly. Still, if you can't bear to leave the midsection un-designed, perhaps a hero's icon on his chest would break up the area graphically. In this case, I'd vote for a small, tasteful off-center one over his heart, rather than the traditional Superman/Batman chest logo. You could accent it with a pale circular gradient. As for the bottom one, well... Those krazy Photoshop curves are fine for adding pizzazz to your wireframes, but... how can I put this... on a finished design they look amateurish, like the work of someone who just bought Photoshop a month ago and is dying to play with the filters (See: lens flares). If you want to add shininess to the costume, consider Kricket's toon materials, especially the chrome one. I do like the colors in the second one, though. The higher contrast and darker blues make him look more intimidating. But it still looks like a terminally cheesy Photoshop effect. Brutal enough for ya? At least now you know why I voted "yes..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyvern Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I like the second costume... The "stripe" in the middle works for me, but I think it should continue down into the groin area. The way it stops just above the hips bothers me, but I like the area below the chest... ... Needs more boobs and chocolate sauce too... He reminds me just a little, of the Tick.. man I loved the Tick... Vernon "Not in the face!" Zehr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Forwood Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Oh, Wow! You've done it again, Colin. Brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starwarsguy Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I like bottom costume, but agree about the stripe not going well with it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 yeah I like the bottom one as well. I agree its a little over the top and needs some control which I'll try to do by recreating the effect in AM. I like the colors better. the top one is too flat. As far as the stripe.. its there for a reason. This guy is for a client. I'd prefer a full body suit, but my client is rather puritanical, and insists on him having "underwear" (their words not mine). I think they are intimidated by guys in spandex with large bulges. Anyway.. the initial sketch I did had underwear (ala superman, but dark blue) and I hated it. So I went for a pants look instead. I added the top line because there will be a logo on his chest and I wanted to integrate it into the suit. Its a circuit that resembles an M and an I (his name is Major Innovation) and I wanted to have the strips or circuits coming out of the sides.. on to the right and one to the left. Those would be were the suit transitions. As far as the brutal critique.. its fine.. though you should refrain from overly descriptive adjectives, It comes across as someone who just learned the English language and well frankly its amatuerish. Kidding. My skins tough. and I know I'm not an amatuer. I actually agree with the point that over the top photoshop is a thing amatuers resort to. I'll see if I can clean it up a bit. Thanks for all the input guys. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 Oh I forgot one thing.. The thing I really, really liked about the bottom costume was that the circuits took on a metallic effect. and started to invert. Something about that seemed appropriate considering the technological role he'll play in the marketing my client is doing. later, C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted November 20, 2004 Admin Share Posted November 20, 2004 That's incredible stuff Colin! Can I be brutally honest and just say "Wow" at the same time? I think your client will be very pleased. The groin vault looks a bit strange... too wide. I guess I'd have to dig out the Alex Ross images to say it looks "wrong" though. You make modeling look too easy. How is it that splines don't look that wasy when *I* move them around? Can you go into any more detail on how you applied the photoshop effect? I'd love to see that documented thoroughly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckbat Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I'd prefer a full body suit, but my client is rather puritanical, and insists on him having "underwear" [...] So I went for a pants look instead. Ah, that makes more sense, then. Perhaps a utility belt of some sort could help visually reinforce the pants thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 yep I'm sitting here talking with William Sutton and he said the exact same thing. I was thinking of having a inverted circuit pattern that comes up from the pants or creating a circuit belt. I'll post more later. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaryin Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Hi Colin. Besides the middle area that everyone mentioned, I like it. I was wondering if you used a gradient mat for your costume or is it all texturemap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted November 21, 2004 Author Share Posted November 21, 2004 Rodney, I don't know what I do different that might make our stuff look different. I do follow a pretty rigid method, which is the way I modeled Cooper.. What is it you think looks different about your models? As far as the photoshop effect. Here you go.... http://www.colins-loft.net/free/peffect/chromeeffect.htm Its not everything I did to get this look but about 95 percent of it. Follow this and play around and, in the words of Lukbat, you to can come up with all kinds of amatuerish Photoshop effects Now I'm off to AM to figure out how to make this effect work with materials. If I get there I'll let you know. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted November 21, 2004 Admin Share Posted November 21, 2004 Thanks fo that Photoshop tut. Will dive into it later this morning. You said: I don't know what I do different that might make our stuff look different. I do follow a pretty rigid method, which is the way I modeled Cooper.. What is it you think looks different about your models? Even as I was pushing submit I was chatising myself for being stupid. Your character is incredible... and really have nothing to suggest. Still, for some reason I thought the character looked a little off (perhaps too realistic?) in the lower abdomen/groin area. I started to search the net trying to find an Alex Ross image that I could point to that might show what I'm talking about but had to stop short and head off to work. I'll try again later today and see if I can find something. It may be that my tastes tend to run a bit less 'fleshy' in comic book heroes. I think mine is one of those nitpicky "don't know why but it looks off" kind of things. I thought I might even model an example but realized the error of my ways VERY quickly. I will NOT be challenging you to a duel of splines anytime soon! After you get done with all the Alex Ross images let me know if you want to do a couple John Byrne style characters. I'd pay for a generic John Byrne character. I've tried (briefly) to capture a likeness of his style but couldn't manage to get it right. I really need to do some sketches first. With my family away for about a month and my work schedule clearing up... it *almost* looks like I may have some time to spline. Don't be afraid... okay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted November 21, 2004 Author Share Posted November 21, 2004 Hey Rodney, Your observation about the groin is actually pretty dead on. I intentionally altered it from the original in order to play down Superman's .... ummm .. masculinity. Again.. That darn client of mine. I'm just trying to do what I can to get past the puritans. What I did was widen the groin vault so that there was less of a bulge. Kinda "Ken" doll style. I may go back to the original later, but if the client accepts him as he is now.. I'll modify him later for my own purposes. As far as a John Byrne model.. I think its a great idea. He was my favorite artist when I was a teenager. Good luck with the splining. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted November 21, 2004 Author Share Posted November 21, 2004 Hey Rodney. I just saw your picture. Is that your daughter with you? She's a cutey. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted November 22, 2004 Admin Share Posted November 22, 2004 Hey Rodney. I just saw your picture. Is that your daughter with you? She's a cutey . Yeah. The youngest daughter of two. They are sweethearts. They must get that cuteness from their Mom. Certainly wan't from me! Thanks! One of the reasons I've always wanted to tackle John Byrne's style is I thought it'd be neat to convince John Byrne to use Animation:Master some day. He's been using 3D in his comic work for several years... mostly props and the like. For characters he could do so much more with A:M than with Poser and Strata. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 I forgot that he uses Strata. Hmmmm.. you may have inspired me to give it a shot. If you where going to do a Byrne Character, who would you do?.. My favorites where his fantastic four. But he did allot of DC stuff as well. Which would you choose? And do you know if he has anything useful for a full rotoscope anywhere? C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimblepix Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 http://www.network54.com/Forum/251973 has a whole barge load of his work. Just enjoying the view. DanRJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 thanks Nimblepix. I found those as well. I remembered that his heads and hands where the things that were mainly different. Side shots of his heads usually had ovals for skulls.. flat faces and horizontal jaw lines, Square jawed .. Fleshy lips at the sides as well. His hands where very curvacious. I'll go back through my comic collection and see what I can find. Here is my attempt at mimicing the chrome costume in AM using toon shading with falloff, and some tricks with negative specs and ambient maps. It gives me alot more control now and I like the result pretty well. What do you guys think? And yes you can still be brutally honest. L8r, C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimblepix Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Colin, I didn't see much input on the model so I'll throw in a couple well intentioned tweeks. Here are a couple things to consider: Is the top of the leg muscle to far behind the hip bone? The side rib cage may need some definition. Doesn't seem adequate yet. Distance between the top of his rib cage and chest muscles seems a bit much. How about building up his inside calf muscles more. They seem a bit small for a guy like this. I love the direction the costume is going. Darker blue curve under his armpit changes visual direction unnecessarily, and I'm wondering how it transitions into the design on the back. Can we take a look at his back? There are a few things to consider there. I'm oughta here. My pillow is calling. Dan (you can call me Dan) RJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckbat Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 The new shading style is SOOOO sweet. I'll be first in line for the tutorial on that one. My feelings on the blue stripe haven't changed, but I just remembered that Captain America's got the same thing! The difference is that his stripe doesn't follow the bottom edge of his pecs--it's a bit lower. Plus, he has that tasteful black belt. If you can, try tossing in a placeholder or something for your chest insignia--it'll make it easier to judge the overall balance of colors and lines in your design. I understand Nimblepix's reasoning on the calf muscles--even though your model is true to the original illustrations, the giant quadriceps, anatomically accurate though they may be, create a top-heavy feel. I always liked the solution of compensating using jackboots, like the Flash wears. These make the legs seem more balanced visually. Admittedly, you seem pretty committed to the spandex, but I thought I'd throw that out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted November 22, 2004 Admin Share Posted November 22, 2004 Which would you choose? And do you know if he has anything useful for a full rotoscope anywhere? John Byrne did a large part of the images from The Marvel Universe. I'll see what I can dig up... but a lot of the images are online in his gallery. John Byrne Gallery You've almost got Captain America in the current character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted November 22, 2004 Admin Share Posted November 22, 2004 Here is probably more character shots than most people would care to look at. John Byrne Gallery - Marvel Universe Images A lot of the Byrne style is hidden (I think) by inks from Al Milgrom and/or Joe Rubenstein but overall they still aren't bad. John tends to try to keep his images even boring straight ahead shots assymetrical but I guess you'd just need the one half anyway. If you need larger images I have a lot of the plates from set that I could scan in. Assuming I haven't buried them too deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 Well here he is without the middle area. With a logo on his chest.. though its hard to see right now do to the way I'm shading it. I also inverted the boots to look more like metallic circuits. Still need to get the gloves and boots working better, but I'm liking the shading alot. Zaryin.. I'm shading him with toon shaded falloff/no lines. The blue is the gradient and the gloves and boots are cylendrical decals with all kinds of tricks thrown in. I might do a tutorial on it later. Here is a 2.5 meg movie.. a simple 360, but it shows off the circuits and logo. All comments are welcome. http://www.colins-loft.net/free/MajorInnovation.mov l8r C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandoriastudios Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 One thing I noticed when it was rotating, the center-line of the back of the legs seemed a little sharp. That area on the opposite side of the knee seems like it should be flatter. The rest of the geometry looked great to me. I'm afraid that the logo is too subtle and wont stand out. I liked the glowing effect that you were trying the other day. I think that kind of contrast works well for a superhero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyvern Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 That is really cool! Neato! I like how the circuits have a different kind of "shinyness" and sort of "pop" out kind of sort of... ...if you follow me... I know it is hard sometimes. As I looked at it... I was thinking it would be cool to have the circuits go further up the legs and arms and be even more pronounced. Forgive me if this was already covered. You are busy I am sure... a tutorial would take some effort... when you get a chance... Vernon "!" Zehr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DArtZ Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 hey colin, not bad! I have been using the toon shader for McKnuckles now too. Don't know if you've seen him lately. but the toon shader with falloff provides a very nice shading to the character. Anyways... the first thing I noticed, don't know why,but i did... His glutes, butt, rear end seems to be way to tiney width wise for the size of his hamstrings that flowup into them. I would like to view the shaded wire too just to get a looksee at your modeling style, if you get the chance. edit.... saw the wires, lookin good! Nice work Mike Fitz www.3dartz.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyvern Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 ...They must get that cuteness from their Mom. Certainly wan't from me! Thanks!... That is funny Rodney! I saw the picture and thought she looks a little like you actually. Has anyone mentioned you look a little like Matt Damon? Say hi to Ben for me... p.s. Just a little. Don't let it go to your head. Just an observation... I don't really like Matt Damon other than as a good actor... I don't have any posters or anything... that incident at his house was just a silly missunderstanding... Vernon "!" Zehr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypoissant Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Mr Innovation is looking really really good. I agree with Mike about the gluteus though. The immediately poped out as too small when I saw the rotation. He has to be turned almost 45° before we see them. And I notices the vertical edge behind the thich, knee and calfs too. I liked the one with the separate top better although I would make the top just a tiny bit different than the rest. Just so the top shows but you keep the surface quality. The surface looks like dry latex to me. Not so much like spandex. I think double specular angles would give the spandex effect better, kind of like the Incredible suit. At least it wouldn't look so much lake latex. But those are nit picks. I really like the model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 Well he took a direction I don't particularly like, but I'm stuck with it till I can redo him after the project is done. I made many of the modifications that have been suggested.. thanks. Here is an image.... and another 360.. smaller download this time http://www.colins-loft.net/free/MajorInnovation2.mov Thanks for all the input. I'll post more when I like him again. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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