Ideas for the Next Community Project

[Ilidrake]

V15 or v16 rc 01 here

[thumperness]

V16b for me

[Rodney]

As we are quickly running out of 2011 I'd like to make a suggestion....

 

Perhaps should we make this project the official 2012 Community Project?

My thought is that this is obviously going to be a great project and we don't want to rush people by limiting them to the remaining three months in 2011. By slipping it to 2012 we'd also avoid the appearance that the project is running behind schedule every time someone sees the 2011 by-line. Perhaps more importantly as we move into 2012 this would allow everyone involved some quality time to spend with their animation.

 

So what to do with the official 2011 Community Project designation?

Should we just skip this year? I don't think so.

 

Perhaps in the remaining three months we could collect some of the various short films, animation tests and imagery created with A:M as a look back at 2011 (and even back further as necessary). Something of an 'end of year' presentation... perhaps this could eventualy be an annual event? I don't think it'd be difficult to collect some great animation and imagery by the end of the year. As a side effect this might allow for two official community projects each year... a Community Project targeted for release in the summer and a recap/celebration at the end of the year.

 

Just a thought.

[Vertexspline]

Rodney, Not really been back long enough to voice much of opinion but I think you may have some logical points here with the 2011 timeframe. (Now personally really great idea to push to 2012 as gives me some more time to learn so that i can particpate in a better way.)

 

One could think of maybe a user show reel type production for remaining 2011 gleaning scenes from the best of the projects here ...and or have folks submit their own small 10 -15 second item for possible inclusion---in a 2011 user show reel. I think a good user show reel posted about can bring some new users.

 

Just random thoughts. The one thing for sure the 2011 project set being worked on is uber cool looking and I cannot even wait to see what some of the amazing scenes that will be created - no matter the year.

[mtpeak2]

Thanks Rodney for moving the topics.

 

I think we should keep it the 2011 project. It will start in 2011, but the final product will be finished in 2012. That was the same for the Bus Stop project, it started in 2010, but finished in 2011. Either way, it doesn't really matter.

[robcat2075]

We'll make mental note to get started earlier on the 2012 project. We have a backlog of good ideas now so ti shouldn't take so long to get going..

[Rodney]

I think we should keep it the 2011 project. It will start in 2011, but the final product will be finished in 2012. That was the same for the Bus Stop project, it started in 2010, but finished in 2011. Either way, it doesn't really matter.

 

That works for me.

I'm probably just being a bit hyper sensitive to the year designation as we approach the end of yet another year.. As each year's end looms larger I have a tendency to look for subject matters from the previous year to organize/archive. Inevitably some will fall into the gray areas or continue from one year to another.

 

We'll make mental note to get started earlier on the 2012 project. We have a backlog of good ideas now so ti shouldn't take so long to get going.

 

Please!

It is rare for projects to get done earlier than anticipated and I'd hate for 2012 (or any year) to miss out of having a community project. In theory, if every year's project were to slip by only one month... well... a year will eventually get skipped by default.

[mtpeak2]

Sorry for the large file size, I was testing a light setup model. It has a pose slider for day/night renders. Or do we want a constant lighting scheme?

 

I don't know why, the shadows have a slight jitter to them, any ideas as to what is causing that?

YourName_000.mov

[Paul Forwood]

Very nice indeed, Mark!

 

Of course the building in which the camera, and James Stewart, are situated should be casting a shadow too. Just some simple geometry to cast the shadow would be enough. How were render times?

[mtpeak2]

I thought about the building the viewer would be in, but I think that will put most of the scene in shadow, I'll experiment.

[mtpeak2]

Ok, added a building behind camera for shadows.

 

How were render times?

44 seconds a frame in v16b 64 bit.

[Vertexspline]

That's is one awesome looking scene and lighting and rendering. Its really looking amazing. Great job guys.. (Played it a few times for the sheer joy.)

[Shelton]

That really works well. Very nice job!

 

 

Steve

[itsjustme]

Great stuff, Mark!

[fae_alba]

Would now be the time for folks to start reserving their windows?

[John Bigboote]

That back alley scene is looking GREAT! Should help to spur many an idea!

[mouseman]

I don't know why, the shadows have a slight jitter to them, any ideas as to what is causing that?

What were your multipass settings set to? I vaguely remember discussion about a light jittering feature, and they get averaged out with multiple passes but might be noticeable at multipass=1x1. (And for good measure, what were you using for AO?)

[robcat2075]

Ok, added a building behind camera for shadows.

 

What does this look like now?

[mtpeak2]

I don't know why, the shadows have a slight jitter to them, any ideas as to what is causing that?

What were your multipass settings set to? I vaguely remember discussion about a light jittering feature, and they get averaged out with multiple passes but might be noticeable at multipass=1x1. (And for good measure, what were you using for AO?)

5 passes and no AO. The jitter of the lights are within a single frame, each pass the light moves. and for each frame it starts over again. A 1x1 pass, the light will not jitter. I may have the light too far from the scene. But this should not be an issue for this project, the day/night lights should not be animated, you need to set it to the time of day at the start of your animation and leave it there. The only lights that could be animated are the the lights the user adds for the rooms.

 

Robert, the shadows aren't too bad, I'll post a new render animation as soon as it's done.

[mtpeak2]

Here's a new test render. Unfortunately, the shadows from the building and the light for the streetlamp added 11 secs to the render (55 secs per frame).

YourName_000.mov

[robcat2075]

Th set looks great but I don't think we need the extra shadow. It's not motivated by anything the viewer will identify in the scene.

 

On my ostensibly gamma appropriate monitor the areas I've circled are so dark that you couldn't stage any action there.

 

The "night version" is also very very very dark. Too dark to put anything in. A strong moonlight would help a lot.

 

Has someone worked out a plan for bridging the lighting differences between people's shots?

[Rodney]

Has someone worked out a plan for bridging the lighting differences between people's shots?

 

One approach might be to order the shots in some sort of sequence that makes it seem like the time of day is changing. I suppose depending on the story that is being told it could even span the course of days... years... centuries.

 

Odd thought of the day: For the credits the sequences might be sped up replays with the animators names somewhere in frame. In that way everyone gets to relive their favorite experiences all over again.

[robcat2075]

I forgot the circle thing

 

[fae_alba]

Odd thought of the day: For the credits the sequences might be sped up replays with the animators names somewhere in frame. In that way everyone gets to relive their favorite experiences all over again.

 

That's a good idea. At the very least a scene snapshot to help identify which short the credits go to. A sped up movie clip might get distracting, the viewer might get caught up in watching the sped up clips and not read the credits.

 

Another thought I had when watching the last scene clip (great job by the way!), is when it ends at night there is only one exterior light, I'd think that there would be more, lights in doorways, stairways, security lights on the corners of buildings, etc.

[mtpeak2]

Th set looks great but I don't think we need the extra shadow. It's not motivated by anything the viewer will identify in the scene.

 

On my ostensibly gamma appropriate monitor the areas I've circled are so dark that you couldn't stage any action there.

 

The "night version" is also very very very dark. Too dark to put anything in. A strong moonlight would help a lot.

 

Has someone worked out a plan for bridging the lighting differences between people's shots?

Rerendering a new lighting test. Removed the building behind the camera and upped the intensity of the moon light.

 

It should be fairly easy to order the shots according to the placement of the shadows.

 

On another note, should I add exterior lights/fixtures by the exterior doors? That would add 3 more lights into the scene which will increase the render times.

[mtpeak2]

Here's the updated render.

YourName_000.mov

[mouseman]

Looking fabulous, as always.

 

Robcat mentioned the dark areas ... I was wondering what it would be like if the sun took a slightly different path. Now it goes from front right and sets behind left. What if it started front slightly left and ended up behind slightly right? Then some of the places that Robcat pointed out that are in dark would be brighter, you could get a little bit (but not too much) shadow from the building on the right for a good shadow effect. What do you think? (I'm not meaning to give you more work, just if you want to try something out.)

[mtpeak2]

Robert, is that any better or not?

[mtpeak2]

Looking fabulous, as always.

 

Robcat mentioned the dark areas ... I was wondering what it would be like if the sun took a slightly different path. Now it goes from front right and sets behind left. What if it started front slightly left and ended up behind slightly right? Then some of the places that Robcat pointed out that are in dark would be brighter, you could get a little bit (but not too much) shadow from the building on the right for a good shadow effect. What do you think? (I'm not meaning to give you more work, just if you want to try something out.)

It would of caused dark areas on the other side of the scene.

 

Well, since I didn't get any answers from my question, other than Chris' reply, this is the final set.

 

Who do I send it to or do I post it here?

 

(53 secs per frame)

YourName_001.mov

[mtpeak2]

Oh, do we need any exterior props, such as patio furniture, picnic table, garbage cans in alley, etc?

[Darkwing]

That's beautiful Mark! Hitchcock would be proud!

[Paul Forwood]

That looks stunning, Mark!

[TheSpleen]

awesome!

[Shelton]

Great job Mark. I will try to do a window this time around.

 

Steve

[mouseman]

Perfection!

 

Now I just have to come up with an idea.

[fae_alba]

Oh, do we need any exterior props, such as patio furniture, picnic table, garbage cans in alley, etc?

 

perhaps yes.. if you have props kicking around along the lines of garbage cans, lawn chairs, tables, etc, to make the scene look more lived in I think that would be a good thing.

 

Your work is over the top btw.

[Vertexspline]

Its hard to imagine that each new iteration can top the one before it ---yet somehow you seem to make it happen. Awesome job Mark.......I look at all the details and can only dream of such precision and artistry.

[thumperness]

So, are our animations only going to take place in the rooms as Thom focuses in to peek in each room, or is there stuff also going on outside the building in the yard?

[robcat2075]

Ordering the shots by "Time of Day" may not be felicitous as that may not order the shots in their most useful sequence. For example you probably dont' want three long shots butted together.

 

Can the lights be animated so a complete 24-hour cycle is possible, including moonlight travel? Then if the editor wants to follow an evening shot with a morning one, he can insert a quick timelapse through the intervening night.

 

 

Robert, is that any better or not?

 

Yes, that does look better!

[mtpeak2]

Thanks everyone!

 

Can the lights be animated so a complete 24-hour cycle is possible, including

moonlight travel? Then if the editor wants to follow an evening shot with a

morning one, he can insert a quick timelapse through the intervening night.

No, it goes from noon to night or night to noon, which ever way you want to look at it.

[mtpeak2]

Ok, rendering a test animation of sunrise to sunset. I didn't animate the moon yet though. Animating the moon will most likely cause dark shadow areas. I really don't want to add more lights into the scene. I'll post the test render when finished.

 

Added a picnic table and benches. Still need patio furniture, garbage cans (can use the one from bus stop) and grill.

[mtpeak2]

Here's the test render.

YourName_002.mov

[NancyGormezano]

Very terrific looking collection of buildings!

 

I have not been paying close attention but it appears you are trying to go realistic, soooo....my immediate thoughts:

 

1) The main thing that bothers me is that it reminds me of abandonned buildings in the Bronx (beautiful ones at that). Adding some indication of window coverings: ie some randomly positioned curtains, shades, would help.

 

2) Not sure how the time lapse will be used, but if it is, lights should come on and off (at different times) in some rooms as night/morning approaches.

 

3) sky color/cloud/stars patterns could/should? change as the time of day changes.

 

4) The courtyard could use some litter & randomly placed items (laundry, kids toys), and maybe a couple of fire escape landings might have some plants, or other personal items. People could add their own props to courtyard if they choose to animate in the courtyard. I don't think you need to keep adding, unless you want to.

 

I'm assuming the camera angle can be changed by participants? This set begs to be explored. I am assuming that animation is not limited to a room

 

I am confused as to what the structure is on the top of the roof on the right hand side?

 

I repeat - Great looking set!

 

EDIT: (added examples of abandonned, random window treatments, lights in windows at night)

Edited October 21, 2011 by NancyGormezano

[Paul Forwood]

More nice work, Mark!

 

A few shots that may answer your questions, Nancy:

 

This shows the balcony on the building to the right.

 

A comparison of Hitchcock's day and night lighting.

 

Yes the windows could use some dressing such as curtains, blinds and nick-nacks.

[NancyGormezano]

A few shots that may answer your questions, Nancy:

 

Those were good sample scenes from Hitchcock's movie, which definitely support my suggestions.

 

I was addressing Mark's last movie and his progress so far. It was not obvious to me that Mark was intending to go that route, ie how far he was going to take it, nor the plan for camera on this animation project. Nor restrictions on animations. Perhaps it was indicated what the eventual goal of set, etc is in some post in this thread somewhere? I was assuming set was still in the state of flux.

 

Is the time lapse sequence intended for transitioning purposes mainly? Only?

 

Hitchcock's movie doesn't just take place straight on looking at/thru windows. Wasn't clear to me that project was restricted to what Hitchcock did either.

 

EDIT: added screengrab

[Paul Forwood]

As far as I can see there is no clear direction on this project at all, yet. I think Mark is just asking for suggestions and complying with requests regarding further modifications of the set.

Personally I think that allowing events to take place at any time of the day or night is just complicating things for no logical reason. I would lock it down to just day and night.

 

Here is the penthouse suite that you asked about. In Hitchcock's Rear Window it is the home/studio of the pianist who is struggling to write a piece of music:

[mtpeak2]

Very terrific looking collection of buildings!

 

I have not been paying close attention but it appears you are trying to go realistic, soooo....my immediate thoughts:

 

1) The main thing that bothers me is that it reminds me of abandonned buildings in the Bronx (beautiful ones at that). Adding some indication of window coverings: ie some randomly positioned curtains, shades, would help.

 

2) Not sure how the time lapse will be used, but if it is, lights should come on and off (at different times) in some rooms as night/morning approaches.

 

3) sky color/cloud/stars patterns could/should? change as the time of day changes.

 

4) The courtyard could use some litter & randomly placed items (laundry, kids toys), and maybe a couple of fire escape landings might have some plants, or other personal items. People could add their own props to courtyard if they choose to animate in the courtyard. I don't think you need to keep adding, unless you want to.

 

I'm assuming the camera angle can be changed by participants? This set begs to be explored. I am assuming that animation is not limited to a room

 

I am confused as to what the structure is on the top of the roof on the right hand side?

 

I repeat - Great looking set!

 

EDIT: (added examples of abandonned, random window treatments, lights in windows at night)

 

1) I asked about the interior of the rooms and it was said it was not necessary. So shades/curtains got overlooked.

 

2) I'm not finished with the night/day transition, which is only to be used as a possible transition between scenes. It is not to be used by the participants. All the participants should set the time of day on the light rig model, at the begining of the animation.

 

3) I thought about this and haven't had time to work on it.

 

4) I'm not done adding props to the scene. A few plants on the fire escapes is a good idea. I'm also trying to keep the props to a minimum, to keep the render times as low as possible.

[robcat2075]

4) I'm not done adding props to the scene. A few plants on the fire escapes is a good idea. I'm also trying to keep the props to a minimum, to keep the render times as low as possible.

 

Since the camera will always be seeing from the same angle, some props could be flat cards.

[R Reynolds]

First, a real question:

Mark, what are you using for those marvelous brick materials/textures?

 

 

Second; useless movie trivia:

...home/studio of the pianist who is struggling to write a piece of music.

Played by Ross Bagdasarian who went on to fame and fortune creating "Alvin and the Chipmunks".

[mtpeak2]

BitMapPlus, there are very few decals on the set.