if I want to have a never-ending license of V. 16...

[Elm]

... would I need to buy the "CD" version of A:M?

[jakerupert]

There will be no longer a CD-Version of 16 because the donglecompany vanished.

 

So you will have to wait with us inline, with what new solution Jason and Yoda might come up for us CD-enthusiats.

 

As far as I understand, they are exploring that right now.

[pixelplucker]

Still don't know why USB dongles are avoided...

[Fuchur]

I had a talk about that with Steffen and most protectionsoftware is very expensive. It would not be possible to sell A:M for nearly the price it is now with most of the solutions available.

Jason is however thinking about another solution that may be based on USB-drives and a licence-system (technically, not limitation-vise) more or less like the one used for websubscription right now.

 

As I understood it, there are a few problems with that which have to be overcome, but I am sure Jason will solve them and give us feedback about it as soon as he did.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[Jason Simonds]

Hello,

 

On the store the http://www.hash.com/store/index.php?main_p...;products_id=22 version does not expire it's just not "keyed" to the CD anymore so the CD can not be handed off.

[jakerupert]

Hi Jason,

 

So when this solution is restricted to one computer now, where`s the advantage gone (Working on one maincomputer and rendering on other older ones by simply switching the CD), that the old CD-solution hold compared to the websubscription?

 

Its a pity, but this makes me hesitate upgrading to 16 for the time being.

(Yes , I know that there`s the new netrender now and with two ort three websubscriptions you get similar power, but then you still have that expiration thing and as fast as I am working, I prefer consistency in my software.)

 

I will wait paitently for a CD like usb-dongle version.

[Bruce Del Porte]

Hello,

 

On the store the http://www.hash.com/store/index.php?main_p...;products_id=22 version does not expire it's just not "keyed" to the CD anymore so the CD can not be handed off.

 

Hey Jason,

 

Is there a description of the EULA for this option somewhere?

 

Thanx in advance

[pixelplucker]

USB key could work too. Personally I would rather pay more for the program and if need be have a dongle, or key that allows me the freedom of using the program on more than one computer but only one at a time.

 

My experiences with softkey protection like ones Corel, Adobe and others use is simply they are junk and cause more headaches when upgrading hardware or for some fluke reason you needed to use a restore point on your system. The hassle of re-registering the program, waiting for a new access code just to go about your business makes it a deterrent. I find myself junking programs that use those schemes.

 

Though AM is pretty unique in the sense that the whole package is $80 a year subscription, I would rather pay more and simply have the freedom of plugging a dongle on another machine for rendering and not tie up my workstation. Old cd version was only $299, I think the dongles run around the $50 mark. Adding that to the cd cost is pretty doable. (most people spend more than that on gas in a month)

 

It's not like you guys have a mandatory "maintenance program" and certainly don't put the squeeze on the clients like the big guys do.

[Rodney]

Hey Jason,

 

Is there a description of the EULA for this option somewhere?

 

Thanx in advance

 

Bruce,

The EULA is about two clicks into any A:M installation.

You can launch an installer and cancel after reading it.

 

The current EULA should read as follows:

HASH ENTERPRISES PROGRAM LICENSE AGREEMENT

 

THE PROGRAM AND ITS RELATED DOCUMENTATION ARE COPYRIGHTED. YOU MAY NOT USE, COPY, MODIFY, OR TRANSFER THE PROGRAM OR DOCUMENTATION, OR ANY COPY EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY PROVIDED IN THIS AGREEMENT.

 

You have the non-exclusive right to use the enclosed program only on a single computer. You may physically transfer the program from one computer to another provided that the program is used on only one computer at a time. You may not electronically transfer the program from one computer to another over a network. You may not distribute copies of the program or accompanying documentation to others. You may not modify or translate the program or documentation.

 

This license is effective until terminated. You may terminate it by destroying all copies of the program from any storage media, the program documentation, and all copies thereof. This license will also terminate if you fail to comply with any terms or condition of this agreement. You agree, upon such termination, to destroy all copies of the program and documentation.

 

THE PROGRAM IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, AND ALL OTHERS INVOLVED IN THE CREATION, PRODUCTION, OR DELIVERY OF THIS PROGRAM AND RELATED DOCUMENTATION. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE RESULT AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM IS ASSUMED BY YOU. SHOULD THE PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU (AND NOT HASH ENTERPRISES OR ITS DEALERS) ASSUME THE ENTIRE COST OF ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR, OR CORRECTION. FURTHER, HASH ENTERPRISES DOES NOT WARRANT, GUARANTEE, OR MAKE ANY REPRESENTATIONS REGARDING THE USE OF OR THE RESULT OF THE USE OF THE PROGRAM IN TERMS OF CORRECTNESS, ACCURACY, RELIABILITY, CURRENTNESS OR OTHERWISE, AND YOU RELY ON THE PROGRAM AND ITS RELATED DOCUMENTATION AND RESULTS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK.

 

HASH ENTERPRISES WARRANTS TO THE ORIGINAL LICENSEE THAT THE MEDIA ON WHICH THE PROGRAM IS RECORDED SHALL BE FREE FROM DEFECTS IN MATERIAL AND WORKMANSHIP ONLY FOR A PERIOD OF THIRTY (30) DAYS FROM THE DATE OF ORIGINAL PURCHASE. IF A DEFECT COVERED BY THIS WARRANTY OCCURS DURING THIS 30-DAY WARRANTY PERIOD, AND IT IS RETURNED TO HASH ENTERPRISES NOT LATER THAN FIVE (5) DAYS AFTER THE END OF SUCH 30-DAY PERIOD, HASH ENTERPRISES SHALL, AT THEIR OPTION REPAIR OR REPLACE THE DEFECTIVE MEDIA.

 

THIS WARRANTY IS IN LIEU OF ALL OTHER EXPRESSED OR STATUTORY WARRANTIES, AND THE DURATION OF ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MECHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, IS HEREBY LIMITED TO SAID THIRTY (30) DAY PERIOD. HASH ENTERPRISE'S LIABILITY IS LIMITED SOLEY TO THE REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT OF THE DEFECTIVE MEDIA, IN ITS SOLE DISCRETION, AND SHALL NOT IN ANY EVENT INCLUDE DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF USE OR LOSS OF ANTICIPATED COSTS, EXPENSES, OR DAMAGES, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY DATA OR INFORMATION WHICH MAY BE LOST OR RENDERED INACCURATE, EVEN IF HASH ENTERPRISES HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

 

This agreement embodies the entire understanding of the parties, and that you acknowledge that you have read this agreement, understand it, and agree to be bound by its terms and conditions. You also agree that this agreement is the completed and exclusive statement of agreement between the parties and supercedes all proposals or prior agreement, verbal or written and any other communications between the parties relating the subject matter of this agreement.

 

This license agreement shall be governed by the laws of the United States of America. All legal complaints are subject to the laws and jurisdiction of the state of Washington.

 

Note: As far as I know this EULA hasn't changed since I initially purchased A:M in 1998. I reads like most standard software EULAs.

 

 

For all, please keep the topic related to Elm's initial query.

For unrelated questions or diverging topics please consider starting a new thread.

Thanks.

[John Bigboote]

Yeah... a USB option would be cool... it could have an imprinted AM logo on it, and maybe 16gig of storage space for all your files... just don't LOSE it!

[Rodney]

I'd be interested in hearing Elm's response to Jason's reply.

 

Elm stated he wanted to have a never ending license and that seems to already be supplied via CD for $299.

 

Jason related the A:M CD available on the store does not expire (never ending license). It also is no longer "keyed" to the CD (another plus!).

The license hasn't changed. A:M still cannot be transferred to other users or installed on multiple computers without deviating from terms of the software license. Hash Inc has long been supportive of studios and educational institutions and can negotiate discounts on multi-user licenses.

 

I would caution against the desire to implement new software controls when the best possible world is to live without them (and lower the cost for everyone) by simply paying a fair price.

[Bruce Del Porte]

The EULA has to of changed when Hash went from a CD shrink wrap model to a on-line subscription model. Let me clarify, what is the terms of the CD, non-expiring, non-CD subscription? What am I buying for $299? Reading it after I have paid doesn't help me.

[Rodney]

The EULA has to of changed when Hash went from a CD shrink wrap model to a on-line subscription model.

 

Bruce,

When posting here you get user interpretations. Only someone at Hash Inc can fully answer your question.

Email them with your questions.

 

Here's my reading:

The EULA has not changed. You have a mistaken impression that the EULA has to have changed.

With the exception of the one year expiration of the websubscription running out at one year little has changed and the EULA terms remain exactly the same. The current EULA is as listed above but... the EXPIRATION/TERMINATION will depend on the media/medium through which you purchase:

 

- The $79 websubscription will expire at one year

- The $299 CD does not expire (Note: This expiration is the subject of the topic under consideration which Jason clarified)

 

The expiration is not a part of the EULA. The EULA simply remains in effect until expiration or termination.

The terms of the above EULA do not specify a never ending license and thus are not an express term of the EULA.

This leaves room for interpretation and agreements negotiated through Hash Inc.

 

So, no... the EULA didn't have to change when Hash went from CD to online subscription... and (as near as I can tell) hasn't changed as of this date.

 

I suspect the primary buggabear with power users is the determination of how many computers we can operate A:M on simultaneously... that IS spelled out in the current EULA which again, has not changed. Those that want to expand beyond the current EULA should contact Hash Inc and negotiate specific terms of sale.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SIDE BAR FOR ORIGINAL TOPIC - Theoretical cost of a never expiring license to A:M: For those interested in such things, a calculation of a 'never ending license to A:M... all purchased versions... always on' might theoretically be capped at $7900 (that's $79 times one hundred years, give or take). Of course, many variables would need to be factored in as most people have little desire to maintain obsolete versions and few will require the full 100 years. This also does not account for program enhancements, discounts and inflation. It also does not cover any new development, support and maintenance agreements or installation fees. Still, $8K is what a never ending license to A:M in it's current state and on one computer might look like. $7900 - $299 yields a pretty good discount for us today with the A:M CD.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What is it you want the EULA to say?

[mouseman]

I think the licensing model works sufficiently well for hobbyists like myself. I am happy and willing to place my hobby on the reliance of Hash Inc, since I both have faith in the abilities of the current crew running the ship, and I can always find another hobby should anything ever happen.

 

I think the main point is more for professionals, who need more security and more flexibility. Any business (or a very serious hobbyist) needs a contingency plan if their relationship with one if its crucial business partners/suppliers is a requirement for its success. Any additional autonomy in the ability to deal with licenses is usually desired by businesses. This might include:

 

- Easy to move the license from one machine to another.

- Does not require intervention from Hash Inc to move the license from one machine to another.

- Is valid indefinitely (e.g. if you have a copy of Word 97, you can still install and run it, so why not A:M also?)

 

I think quite a few people feel that the old CD system (which, for anyone joining us just now, is no longer available from Hash's supplier, and Hash Inc are looking for an appropriate replacement) did a better job of attaining these needs. None of those needs conflict with the important license statement:

 

You may physically transfer the program from one computer to another provided that the program is used on only one computer at a time.

 

Hash Inc's needs include being able to pay the employees and pay the bills and have some reasonable profit after all is said and done. Hopefully a new technical solution can be found that meets both Hash Inc's needs and the needs of both hobbyists and professionals, and hopefully a price point can be found for it that fits in with both the intended customers pocketbook and Hash Inc's business model.

[HomeSlice]

Well Bruce, I don't know all the legal catch phrases, but for what it's worth, here is my uninformed layman's interpretation of the pertinent parts of the EULA.

(Note: The author of this forum post is not a lawyer and this post may not be construed as legal advise in any way. Moreover, the author has pulled this interpretation straight out of his own a$$. It is highly recommended to consult a real lawyer in any matter relating to the EULA.)

 

You may physically transfer the program from one computer to another provided that the program is used on only one computer at a time.

You can take the CD and install the software on additional computers. You can copy the setup files to a physical media, such as CD-R or USB drive in order to install the software on another computer. You may not run the program on more than one computer at the same time.

 

You may not electronically transfer the program from one computer to another over a network.

You may not copy the setup files to another computer through your home network.

You may not run the program on one computer and operate it on another (for example, through a virtual machine) over any type of network.

You may not provide copies of the program for download via the web, peer to peer networks or via any other arrangement of computers connected to one another directly or indirectly.

 

You may not modify or translate the program or documentation.

You may not change the program in any way to suit your particular needs.

You may not improve the documentation.

You may not translate the documentation so non-english speakers can understand how to use the program.

 

THE PROGRAM IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE

A warranty is something like a promise or contractual agreement.

Express warranties are specific promises made by the seller.

Implied warranties are promises that the goods are fit for the ordinary purpose for which they are normally used, are adequately contained, packaged, and labeled, and conform to any promises or "facts" on the container or label.

In other words, any promises made by the company or the packaging are meaningless.

 

YOU RELY ON THE PROGRAM AND ITS RELATED DOCUMENTATION AND RESULTS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Once the company has your money and you have the product, you are on your own - period.

 

THE ORIGINAL LICENSEE THAT THE MEDIA ON WHICH THE PROGRAM IS RECORDED SHALL BE FREE FROM DEFECTS IN MATERIAL AND WORKMANSHIP ONLY FOR A PERIOD OF THIRTY (30) DAYS FROM THE DATE OF ORIGINAL PURCHASE. .... HASH ENTERPRISES SHALL, AT THEIR OPTION REPAIR OR REPLACE THE DEFECTIVE MEDIA.

If you scratch or break your CD (or any media on which Hash records the program for distribution) after 30 days from the purchase date, your are SOL.

 

this agreement is the completed and exclusive statement of agreement between the parties and supercedes all proposals or prior agreement, verbal or written.

Anything any representative from the company tells you (in any form) regarding your rights, or their responsibilities, is meaningless.

 

----------------------------------

 

So here is what you can do:

You can take the CD and *TRY* to install the software on additional computers.

You can copy the setup files to a physical media, such as CD-R or USB drive in order to *TRY* to install the software on another computer.

 

Here is what you cannot do:

You may not run the program on more than one computer at the same time.

You may not copy the setup files to another computer through your home network.

You may not provide copies of the program for download via the web, peer to peer networks or via any other arrangement of computers connected to one another directly or indirectly.

You may not change the program in any way.

You may not improve the documentation.

You may not translate the documentation into another language.

 

Here is what the company is responsible for:

They will replace or repair the original physical media they gave you if, within 30 days of purchase, you can prove it was damaged.

 

------------------------------

 

So, for example, if you purchased the program and activated it on your desktop, you have the right to *TRY* to install the software also on your laptop, but the EULA does not promise to provide you with an additional activation code for your laptop installation. The company may decide to give you a new activation code, or they may not. They are making no promises. And the company is not bound to honor any promises they make outside of the EULA.

 

I guess that means you may not install *any* version of A:M on more than one computer. If that is the case, the EULA is in sore need of an update.

[robcat2075]

That EULA probably hasn't changed much since the 90's when home networks and multiple personal computers were rare.

 

Hey, Martin's a lawyer! Maybe he might look into updating or clarifying it for modern times.

[jakerupert]

Hell, who is going to read and value all this legal bubbling. I don`t want to be a lawexpert, just do some simple 3D ;>)!

 

Just make it a usable and workable solution please.

[Bill White]

Greetings all!

 

Has there been any progress made on the CD version of A:M? A hard copy of the program with a license number that could be installed on a new machine or machine after a HD crash (etc) would make me much more comfortable investing the time required in learning the program. A web sub just doesn't 'feel' as permanent somehow. Your mileage may vary. Noticing the dates on this thread (june) made me wonder about progress on this front. Thanks for your time.

 

Bill....

[robcat2075]

Has there been any progress made on the CD version of A:M?

 

Not yet.

 

 

 

A hard copy of the program with a license number that could be installed on a new machine or machine after a HD crash...

 

you can reinstall on the same machine with a new HD. Make sure your master0.lic file is backed up elsewhere.

 

 

I too would like to see a transportable USB dongle version offered. You might send a friendly note to Jason at Hash to encourage it, understanding that it might be a more expensive offering than what is available now.

[Bill White]

Has there been any progress made on the CD version of A:M?

 

Not yet.

 

 

I too would like to see a transportable USB dongle version offered. You might send a friendly note to Jason at Hash to encourage it, understanding that it might be a more expensive offering than what is available now.

 

Thank you for your reply. Looking the his user profile, I attemped to leave him a message and was told that function wasn't enabled. I believe I managed an email to him through other of his information. I was reminded that once before I hit that snag (leave a message error). Would you know if that function works, or is that a question for Rodney? (Still trying to figure out who does what around here .

 

I have enjoyed your posts and knowledge sharing/tuts etc. very much. Thank you also for that!

 

Bill....

[robcat2075]

Jason @ Hash.com ought to be a working email address.

[mouseman]

Jason @ Hash.com ought to be a working email address.

"support@hash.com" also works, presumably it currently goes to Jason but might be handed off to someone else when he's out of town or on vacation.

[grandma]

Jason @ Hash.com ought to be a working email address.

"support@hash.com" also works, presumably it currently goes to Jason but might be handed off to someone else when he's out of town or on vacation.

I just want to be able to have the cd on my "good" computer, but when we go on vacation be able to use the cd on my laptop! This has stopped me from buying for a long time. I have no idea what version I will be getting if I bought a cd. Right now I have version 15. We are such a mobile population, we are tethered with the subscription. I want to own that technology for that version. I am willing to pay $299. I want to be able to buy a better computer or travel and be able to use my purchase.

[jakerupert]

Same here....

[Vertexspline]

Grandma and jakerupert--- I know How you feel I did have a old version 12 cd --and that really was nice to have that much flexibility ---but wanted to get the niceness of the newer versions and ended up buying two subs -one for laptop and one for desktop ...but that also mean will be locked into subscribing year in and year out . Right now it works for me but am soon to be working on a much better desktop that I will build and then will be faced with the either locking in a unending locked sub to that comp for 299 or another yearly sub making my yearly sub price of 240 per year for the 3 seats.

 

Which compared to some of the upgrades prices I have to pay for new versions of other softwares probably comes out about normal. ie each new version of Modo upgrades go for 399 and come out about every 18 months. (Plus with Animation Master not much else to buy in way of plugins etc --it does pretty much all you need right in the package you get.)

 

And I am a hobbyists so even for me if i go to 3 subs a year --the cost per hour I enjoy Animation Master is about .30 cents an hour -smiles--- so pretty cheap entertainment when you look at it that way.

[Sum Square Stories]

Grandma and jakerupert--- I know How you feel I did have a old version 12 cd --and that really was nice to have that much flexibility ---but wanted to get the niceness of the newer versions and ended up buying two subs -one for laptop and one for desktop ...but that also mean will be locked into subscribing year in and year out . Right now it works for me but am soon to be working on a much better desktop that I will build and then will be faced with the either locking in a unending locked sub to that comp for 299 or another yearly sub making my yearly sub price of 240 per year for the 3 seats.

 

Which compared to some of the upgrades prices I have to pay for new versions of other softwares probably comes out about normal. ie each new version of Modo upgrades go for 399 and come out about every 18 months. (Plus with Animation Master not much else to buy in way of plugins etc --it does pretty much all you need right in the package you get.)

 

And I am a hobbyists so even for me if i go to 3 subs a year --the cost per hour I enjoy Animation Master is about .30 cents an hour -smiles--- so pretty cheap entertainment when you look at it that way.

 

I'm sick of seeing 'it is fine for me so just accept it' type answers. I really hope v17 includes some new options for the license (not saying to get rid of the subscription one for those who do like it). I personally won't deal with a computer specific license. There is nothing for me to debate I simply won't. It also seems stupid that there isn't one with the options that do seem out there as have been already mentioned and the lack of official feedback on the matter is disheartening.

[Rodney]

I personally won't deal with a computer specific license. There is nothing for me to debate I simply won't.

 

If it ever becomes something you'd like to talk about I'd love to hear the whys and wherefores.

 

I just want to be able to have the cd on my "good" computer, but when we go on vacation be able to use the cd on my laptop! This has stopped me from buying for a long time.

 

I take it two subscriptions is not an option? (That'd save you considerable money over the purchase of the old CD scheme at full price of $299)

Sadly, Hash Inc no longer ships the CD so that is no longer an option.

 

I have no idea what version I will be getting if I bought a cd.

 

When we activate a subscription we get one year of the current version of A:M (this may span several versions).

Older subscription installations (v13 and up) should also run if installed.

Unless you are purchasing a CD directly from Hash Inc I'd be really careful. CDs are no longer an option.

 

Right now I have version 15.

 

Perhaps you'll consider v17 when it comes out?

 

We are such a mobile population, we are tethered with the subscription.

I want to own that technology for that version. I am willing to pay $299.

I want to be able to buy a better computer or travel and be able to use my purchase.

 

Hash Inc isn't selling the technology nor the product. They are licensing their software.

The subscription model aligns with that concept.

 

You are willing to pay $299 but not $158 to solve your problem?

One option might be to send me the $299 and I'll field a custom solution with the personal attention required to resolve it.

 

Ultimately, regarding special needs and custom solutions, the folks you'll want to contact regarding licensing schemes is Hash Inc: jason at hash dot com. Through that communication you'll be able to let them know what your unique requirements are to the satisfaction of all involved.

[Rodney]

I want to return for a moment to Granny's problem as there is a pretty good solution available at the cost of $79.

 

If you've already got a v15 CD use that while you are traveling.

Most of what you'll create in A:M (any version) will open and render with that.

Purchase a subscription now and you'll have access to v16 now and v17 upon release.

That will help you make an informed decision on staying current when you consider resubscribing with v17 and beyond.

 

For a custom solution I might recommend purchasing one subscription now for your primary computer and one 6 months later for your alternate. This leapfrogging of subscriptions will keep you up and running after each subscription runs out while saving you a few more dollars. Instead of spending $158 a year you'll be spending $118.50.... a savings that gets you half way toward purchasing your next subscription. Your v15 CD (assuming you have one) can again act as a backup.

[Vertexspline]

Actually Rodney the six month over lap is a pretty nice solution. And really folks ----like everything else ---you do what works for you. What works for me is just that--it works for me. It might work for you and maybe not . In the end you make your own decision to buy or not. Suscribe or not. I think the folks at AM have an idea the old cd thing was popular but could not continue it. So we have what we have right now. It either works for you or not . Your choice always.

[Bill White]

Hi All! ,

 

Last post from me on this I assume. I am also one who 'requires' a version license to be content. Not a machine license, not a timed sub. I am afraid to keep working with a:m anymore. I tried a sub this time, but honestly wish I hadn't. Anything I work on now may be useless after my year. I would be totally at hashs mercy and can't get myself to surrender to that. If, god forbid, any thing happened to the company, my time and money just runs out. With a disk and version license, you at least have that and could keep working for years. I have started on that B (the kitchen appliance one) program, because I know I can keep a working version, not because I'm too cheap to shell out $300. (I also did the CD once and one $100 upgrade) (I actually inquired to Hash three times over the next almost decade about upgrades, and never had an email returned.) Hash needs to get a:m into best buys at an affordable price and try for some quantity sales. imho. everyone is entitled to my opinion, so there ya go.

 

Everyone here is great! The program is a fine piece of work! I suppose this is a bitch best directed at the powers that be, and I assume those have access to here too.

 

hmmm.. Should this have been in 'feature requests'?

 

Bill White

[grandma]

I want to return for a moment to Granny's problem as there is a pretty good solution available at the cost of $79.

 

If you've already got a v15 CD use that while you are traveling.

Most of what you'll create in A:M (any version) will open and render with that.

Purchase a subscription now and you'll have access to v16 now and v17 upon release.

That will help you make an informed decision on staying current when you consider resubscribing with v17 and beyond.

 

For a custom solution I might recommend purchasing one subscription now for your primary computer and one 6 months later for your alternate. This leapfrogging of subscriptions will keep you up and running after each subscription runs out while saving you a few more dollars. Instead of spending $158 a year you'll be spending $118.50.... a savings that gets you half way toward purchasing your next subscription. Your v15 CD (assuming you have one) can again act as a backup.

Then why am I not excited to purchase version 17 at $79 as I would be to purchase the cd version 17 at $299? Because the $79 version is forever gone in a year. The $158.00 solution is gone in a year. The $118.50 provides a solution for 6 months and then is gone in a year. The $299 version is a solution and still there in a year. Kinda my bottom line, but I guess they aren't listening.

[Wildsided]

Don't want to promote piracy or anything but if you installed the program onto a USB drive and copied any system registry changes across to another computer couldn't you move the software from one PC to another? It'd be essentially like removing the Drive from one computer and putting it in another. Or does A:M register the IP address of the PC it was activated so it knows if it's a different computer and in that case couldn't you manually set the IP address of the computer to match.

 

I don't know anything about the ins and outs of programming and registry editing etc and feel free to call me a dumbass as you explain why this wouldn't work, it was just something that occurred to me.

[Rodney]

Then why am I not excited to purchase version 17 at $79 as I would be to purchase the cd version 17 at $299? Because the $79 version is forever gone in a year. The $158.00 solution is gone in a year. The $118.50 provides a solution for 6 months and then is gone in a year. The $299 version is a solution and still there in a year. Kinda my bottom line, but I guess they aren't listening.

 

At least we now see what the real issue is; one of longevity.

Hash Inc spoiled us in the good old days of the A:M CD didn't they?

 

Everything I've seen Martin do (despite the barbs and arrows launched his way) has earned and re-earns my respect daily.

It's not that Hash Inc isn't listening, it's that even as they do we still cannot be bothered to care.

 

Because the $79 version is forever gone in a year.

 

This could just be a misunderstanding of the way of software subscriptions or perhaps a shortsighted approach to A:M but it's also a rather unfortunate demonstration of the level of commitment many have towards A:M. We have no interest in A:M's future, we only want what we want today. We can't see the 80th dollar in the equation because we are focused somewhere else.

 

Thinking longer term, for $790 we can use the subscribe to A:M with all of the updates for the next 10 years... for 10 years. (This assuming Hash Inc doesn't come up with a more sustainable scheme with even better benefits in those 10 years... a very safe bet.)

 

I don't fault anyone for wanting to get the absolute best product for their hard earned dollars (Hey, I'm no different!) but there is more than one bottom line that must be met here. This is where the rubber meets the road and we discover who has the longevity within themselves. Unfortunately, some folks wouldn't be happy even if Martin were to give A:M away. What do we do with those folks? Send them on their way?

 

I feel sorry for those that can only think to the end of a $79 subscription.

There are better days ahead.

 

 

(Note: Back in the $99 CD upgrade days this discussion came up every year about the same timeframe. The end of the year is when most people would consider upgrading)

[Rodney]

If, god forbid, any thing happened to the company,

 

Let's address this issue because it is a recurring theme.

 

Based on what I know of Martin and the Hash Inc crew here's what I see would happen when that fateful day comes when Hash Inc goes out of business. (One must use the imagination here):

 

Martin would release a 'final version' that would allow 'current users' to access the 'last version' in perpetuity... forever. (The act of God ending the world is not covered in said contract).

 

So current subscribers would win again.

Those not subscribed -might- be let in on the deal.

 

There. Feel better?

 

 

 

 

(Note: Sadly, it should be noted that some will prefer this doomsday version/scheme)

[Vertexspline]

Rodney---thanks for all that additional information and commentary and I guess folks can decide what works or not for thier purposes .

 

However, you hit on that most important theme of supporting the software. Most small 3d software companies exist on a shoestring of resources. Many gravestones have been seen along the way. Many more ahead.

 

Not like most things we buy....in many regards ---when you buy a 3d program or upgrade or subscription you are giving money to the developer yes, and you are getting the product you buy...but also you are sustaining the future ...in maybe a small way but collectively a very important way. It does not take the dollar and cents out of your purchase obviously but our purchases do mean more than just a transfer of monies.

[Sum Square Stories]

Let's address this issue because it is a recurring theme.

Based on what I know of Martin and the Hash Inc crew here's what I see would happen when that fateful day comes when Hash Inc goes out of business. (One must use the imagination here):

Martin would release a 'final version' that would allow 'current users' to access the 'last version' in perpetuity... forever. (The act of God ending the world is not covered in said contract).

So current subscribers would win again.

Those not subscribed -might- be let in on the deal.

There. Feel better?

(Note: Sadly, it should be noted that some will prefer this doomsday version/scheme)

 

I find your responses to those that don't welcome the subscription condescending. Talking about Martin releasing a final version stuff is just silly since it seems like he hasn't been involved with his program really for years now, unless I've missed something to my knowledge he has retired. The only one actually developing AM has been Yoda as far as I've seen and he was originally a dedicated plug-in maker not one of the original programmers if I recall correctly. (By the way this shouldn't be taken as a slight against him but the opposite. It is his dedication that has really kept this program going after the founders left and shows the dedication in the community and I really hope he is getting paid well for his work, at least a decent percentage of each unit sale.) So to dismiss any fear about how long the company might last and what will happen after it is gone is either short sighted or patronizing. Also those who have been part of the community for at least 5 years will have likely noticed the change in overall involvement not looking particularly for the better. Not saying there aren't plenty of dedicated users still here but to say it is what it used to be would be a lie or self deception.

 

As far as pricing it seems to me unless I am miss interpreted their replies they aren't complaining about price and are saying they wouldn't mind paying more (not saying they want to pay more either just it isn't the issue) but only if the felt the weren't at Hash Inc's mercy. Not only the yearly subscription issue if Hash went under but also being locked to whatever computers they had it tied to so the v16 'CD' ver isn't a solution. If the computer breaks or one wants to upgrade they are at Hash's mercy. Yes dongles have there own problems, we aren't saying to abandon the subscription. But what is ok or acceptable for some isn't for others and to keep harping on how great it is and how we just aren't seeing how wonderful it is ticks me off.

 

This could just be a misunderstanding of the way of software subscriptions or perhaps a shortsighted approach to A:M but it's also a rather unfortunate demonstration of the level of commitment many have towards A:M. We have no interest in A:M's future, we only want what we want today. We can't see the 80th dollar in the equation because we are focused somewhere else.

Thinking longer term, for $790 we can use the subscribe to A:M with all of the updates for the next 10 years... for 10 years. (This assuming Hash Inc doesn't come up with a more sustainable scheme with even better benefits in those 10 years... a very safe bet.)

I don't fault anyone for wanting to get the absolute best product for their hard earned dollars (Hey, I'm no different!) but there is more than one bottom line that must be met here. This is where the rubber meets the road and we discover who has the longevity within themselves. Unfortunately, some folks wouldn't be happy even if Martin were to give A:M away. What do we do with those folks? Send them on their way?

I feel sorry for those that can only think to the end of a $79 subscription.

There are better days ahead.

 

Also speak for yourself and only yourself and stop with the assumptions about what people may want and the insulting hyperboles. Instead pay attention to the complaints and concerns and at least recognizing some legitimacy in what they say. We never said subscriptions had no merit but to not recognize the serious issues or to belittle them does no one here any favors and may make some leave for good.

 

----------------------------------------------------------

 

To Wildsided, I'm not sure which specific unique hardware identifier Reprise License Manager (the software within AM that handles the permission to use it since safedisc who made AM's CD protection went under) checks but there are a number of true unique hardware serials. It definitely isn't tied to the IP address which on many computers is set to dynamically change anyway, nor to the registry. There are licensing means though that do tie to a USB flash drive's unique hardware ID and to my knowledge Reprise even has it within their options. This has already been suggested, and also that there is no official response to those suggestions hasn't helped many users feel distrustful of the future. A response that may not be what we would like is one thing but to hear or read nothing is even worse and leaves both a sense of uncertainty and of a lack of involvement be those who are suppose to be running things.

[Wildsided]

Thanks Sum Square, I had a feeling there'd have to be more to it than that.

[Fuchur]

Hi,

 

the problem and the fact is:

A portable CD-Version, like it has been around, is (till now and in near future) not available. Something like that may become available again, but till now we don't have that option and it is not that easy to get back. Be sure that Jason and Steffen have been looking into this and it is not that easy as it seems... the reasons have been told many times, even if they are not that understandable for us non-programmers. I just can not overview all the problems that may be coming along with this involving hard- and software-issues, implementation-issues, licencing-problems, needed sales-amounts to use a softwareprotection, costs, workloads and so on.

 

I'd like to see a portable CD-version too, but since it is not really possible to get it back I went to the subscription and I can live with it, even so it is not optimal for all people and I am sorry for that.

Many can live with it, why is it that bad for you? You may want to try it out before you bash against it.

 

When a possibility will become available which is possible and easy enough I am very sure that it will be offered to us as soon as possible. At least it is a selling point for many people...

Sorry if this is not the answer you want to hear, but we can't give you any other one, till there is a permament, moveable option again.

 

So the easy question is: What do you want us to answer to you? What would be a nice answer for you when "Yes there is a portable cd-version which never expires!" is at the moment just not one that can be given?

I see why it is bad for you and I understand why you want the other solution back... I'd not be against it at any time and would very likely buy it too... but till now it is not possible...

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[Rodney]

Well said Fuchur.

 

pay attention to the complaints and concerns and at least recognizing some legitimacy in what they say.

 

That's why we are here discussing this thing.

[Wildsided]

On a totally personal note, I'm glad the subscription is available. Sadly my budget doesn't extend to $300 so to be able to get the full software for $80 is a god send when you consider the price of some of the other 3D software available.

 

I can see where folks are coming from though regarding the full version. It'd be nice to be able to use A:M anywhere without using Maybe I'll be able to afford it when the option becomes available again. But regardless of that I'm grateful that A:M exists, without it I wouldn't be able to do the things I've started doing with Epic Gamin'. I know there's free alternatives available but none of their workflows seem to be as intuitive as A:M's (Lol have you tried Blender, powerful but my head explodes just by looking at it)

 

Anyway that's enough from me.

[Sum Square Stories]

That's why we are here discussing this thing.

 

This hasn't been a discussion. It has been legitimate concerns replied to with straw man arguments.

Case in point...

 

Hi,

the problem and the fact is:

A portable CD-Version, like it has been around, is (till now and in near future) not available. Something like that may become available again, but till now we don't have that option and it is not that easy to get back. Be sure that Jason and Steffen have been looking into this and it is not that easy as it seems... the reasons have been told many times, even if they are not that understandable for us non-programmers. I just can not overview all the problems that may be coming along with this involving hard- and software-issues, implementation-issues, licencing-problems, needed sales-amounts to use a softwareprotection, costs, workloads and so on.

I'd like to see a portable CD-version too, but since it is not really possible to get it back I went to the subscription and I can live with it, even so it is not optimal for all people and I am sorry for that.

Many can live with it, why is it that bad for you? You may want to try it out before you bash against it.

When a possibility will become available which is possible and easy enough I am very sure that it will be offered to us as soon as possible. At least it is a selling point for many people...

Sorry if this is not the answer you want to hear, but we can't give you any other one, till there is a permament, moveable option again.

So the easy question is: What do you want us to answer to you? What would be a nice answer for you when "Yes there is a portable cd-version which never expires!" is at the moment just not one that can be given?

I see why it is bad for you and I understand why you want the other solution back... I'd not be against it at any time and would very likely buy it too... but till now it is not possible...

See you

*Fuchur*

 

No on said we want the CD back nor was anyone against the subscription's existence but it is unacceptable for some of us. Why some of you can't accept that and feel the need to convince us we're wrong for our reasoning disgusts me. An alternative has been suggested. Saying there are issues with alternates that are too difficult for you to understand is an insult to the community especially when we aren't given an official response either on the forums or to emails. A discussion would be an actual presentation of real numbers for the cost of some of the possible alternatives so a sense of how much more it would be to numbers needed to be sold could be figured. No attempt to present options or the reasons against has been giving by those who run Hash thought legitimate suggestions have been given and the requests considering what information is available have been reasonable. We said higher cost wasn't the issue within reason, we've suggested various other license option, even within the same company currently used (http://www.reprisesoftware.com/blog/2011/0...ngles-with-rlm/). There has been nothing in direct reply to these suggestion, so this can't be viewed as a discussion or an answer to our concerns.

 

"What do you want us to answer to you?"

Is insulting, it reads like you're treating us who won't accept the subscription like children that are looking to be pacified. Unless you do work for Hash and set official policy the only thing helpful you could write would be actual facts on the alternatives. If you have experience with various usb key options or Reprises LM options then tell us. If you know specifics about the user supplied usb drive option like actual fees that such usually are then we can decide how reasonable things are or aren't. Excuses and belittling part of the user base isn't constructive.

"What would be a nice answer for you"

Why do you have to be rude. If you don't work for Hash and make the policy you don't have to answer. Relies that just extol the status quo won't lead to progress, and no one has said the subscription model should go away so stop feeling the need to defend it (statement for each of you who has). Some of us find it unacceptable for our plans or comfort, you don't have to understand it just accept we don't. We aren't looking to be pacified or for 'nice' answers just an official response so we know what is going on. It has been up in the air now for about a year, if there is a plan let us know secrets don't help us and wear confidence. If there is no plan to add any options then we can decide to move on or just stick with what we have that is acceptable and stop checking on AM's progress. AM itself is the thing most hurt by this continued lack of official response, good or bad.

 

So until someone who actually sets policy for AM actually answers it would be best if nothing more was said.