V16 issues?

robcat2075 · May 12, 2011

If you've found something newly broken in V16, now's the time to ask about it here on the forum and confirm it and then report it to AMReports.

Not feature requests, but things that actually worked before and suddenly stopped.

I say that because Steffen is starting on V17 already and before long it will be impractical to put fixes into both both v16 updates and the v17 betas.

So it's "speak now or hold your peace until v17."

There shouldn't be much to find since v16 was in beta for more than a year.

No, i don't know when the first v17 beta will surface or what new wonders it will contain.

itsjustme · May 12, 2011

Hmm...I made a report on AMReports that has disappeared, at least I can't find it now. It must have been because of the timing, I posted it just before the release.

The problem was also present in v15, but not in v13. If you use an Expression to rotate a bone, it will stop at 16,000 degrees. Previously, it would just cycle once it hit 16,000 degrees.

If nobody else reports it before I get home tonight, I'll report it again.

John Bigboote · May 12, 2011

I seem to remember having trouble with multiple models that used SSS. When I dragged a 2nd model with unique SubSurfaceScattering Settings (or SSSS) I remember one of the models would not render properly (black or something) I am quite busy at the moment so if someone could try this...

1)start V16 and make 2 new models... one a red sphere and one a blue cube.

2) make a group for the CPs of the model(s) and activate SSS with unique settings for each.

3)Drag both models into the choreography and render a test frame, remember to turn ON SSS in the render cue.

If it renders fine- try adding a 2nd instance of each into the choreography. If it still renders fine, it's off to rehab with me...

Fuchur · May 12, 2011

Just a note for people who are little bit into that kind of stuff:

A:M will have to use GCC 4.2 (a compiler-version) because Apple decided to no longer support 4.0. So to still offer a Mac-version of A:M, Steffen had to make this step.

4.0 can't use the same codebase as 4.2 and so Steffen had to step to the next version or always write things two times. -> Extremly annoying, extremly danagerous bugwise and nearly twice the time to complete something.

See you

*Fuchur*

robcat2075 · May 12, 2011

Sample PRJs that demonstrate problems will be very helpful in these things to make it easy for other people to test them, and since you'd want to submit a sample PRJ anyway if you do make an AMReport.

itsjustme · May 12, 2011

Sample PRJs that demonstrate problems will be very helpful in these things to make it easy for other people to test them, and since you'd want to submit a sample PRJ anyway if you do make an AMReport.

I submitted a sample Project when I reported it initially and that also disappeared. Here is a similar example Project. It is just a single bone with an Expression to rotate that bone "GetTime*1000". If you hit "play" on the Action, the bone will lock in place around the 15:28 mark in v15 and v16RC2 (I don't have the released version of 16 yet), which is approximately where it exceeds 16,000 degrees of rotation. In v13, the bone will cycle at 16,000 degrees and continue without ever stopping...at least as long as I had the patience to check.

Since I'm not sure this is still an issue, I'll leave it to someone else to submit a report on AMReports.

16k_Expression_rotation_issue.zip

Gerry · May 13, 2011

I've noticed that in the model, action and chor windows, decals on five-pointers display badly, sort of disappearing or breaking up in the middle. However it's only in the workspace and doesn't affect rendering, just looks weird, so I've put off mentioning it or filing a report. It occurs on both platforms. Anyone else see this?

robcat2075 · May 13, 2011

I've noticed that in the model, action and chor windows, decals on five-pointers display badly, sort of disappearing or breaking up in the middle. However it's only in the workspace and doesn't affect rendering, just looks weird, so I've put off mentioning it or filing a report. It occurs on both platforms. Anyone else see this?

Can you post a test case? One that shows it worked better in a previous version would be ideal.

Meowx · May 13, 2011

I've noticed that in the model, action and chor windows, decals on five-pointers display badly, sort of disappearing or breaking up in the middle. However it's only in the workspace and doesn't affect rendering, just looks weird, so I've put off mentioning it or filing a report. It occurs on both platforms. Anyone else see this?

I've been getting this pretty commonly since v15 (maybe even before that). Never really worried about it since it doesn't effect final rendering. It usually seemed to pop up when nearby CPs were edited/removed, but damned if I can get it to happen right now!

Paul Forwood · May 13, 2011

I'm still getting error messages related to TSM2 when booting A:M16 (32 bit) on a 64 bit PC.

John Bigboote · May 13, 2011

I seem to remember having trouble with multiple models that used SSS. When I dragged a 2nd model with unique SubSurfaceScattering Settings (or SSSS) I remember one of the models would not render properly (black or something) I am quite busy at the moment so if someone could try this...

1)start V16 and make 2 new models... one a red sphere and one a blue cube.

2) make a group for the CPs of the model(s) and activate SSS with unique settings for each.

3)Drag both models into the choreography and render a test frame, remember to turn ON SSS in the render cue.

If it renders fine- try adding a 2nd instance of each into the choreography. If it still renders fine, it's off to rehab with me...

Nevermind... did it myself and it worked perfectly. Not a prollum.

robcat2075 · May 13, 2011

I'm still getting error messages related to TSM2 when booting A:M16.

I don't get that. My 32-bit A:M boots and a quick run through of TSM2 appears to operate normally.

robcat2075 · May 13, 2011

I submitted a sample Project when I reported it initially and that also disappeared. Here is a similar example Project. It is just a single bone with an Expression to rotate that bone "GetTime*1000". If you hit "play" on the Action, the bone will lock in place around the 15:28 mark in v15 and v16RC2 (I don't have the released version of 16 yet), which is approximately where it exceeds 16,000 degrees of rotation. In v13, the bone will cycle at 16,000 degrees and continue without ever stopping...at least as long as I had the patience to check.

Since I'm not sure this is still an issue, I'll leave it to someone else to submit a report on AMReports.

I get the same behavior as you so i put in an AM report.

robcat2075 · May 13, 2011

I get the same behavior as you so i put in an AM report.

I looked at the behavior in V13 a bit more closely and noticed that the rotation values increment as expected to about 15900 degrees and then at 15:28 flip down to about -15900 and continue to increment from there. There is a noticeable jump inthe bone rotation at the switch.

I presume some sort of value limit is being exceeded in a variable. V13's behavior is probably more "wrong" but gave the appearance of working past 16 seconds.

NancyGormezano · May 13, 2011

I've noticed that in the model, action and chor windows, decals on five-pointers display badly, sort of disappearing or breaking up in the middle.

I've been getting this pretty commonly since v15 (maybe even before that).

I have seen that since ver 14, but also don't worry about it, since it renders fine. Noticed it while working on TWO, specifically the hypogyraf.

robcat2075 · May 13, 2011

I've noticed that in the model, action and chor windows, decals on five-pointers display badly, sort of disappearing or breaking up in the middle.

I've been getting this pretty commonly since v15 (maybe even before that).

I have seen that since ver 14, but also don't worry about it, since it renders fine. Noticed it while working on TWO, specifically the hypogyraf.

If someone could construct a case that looks better in V13 than in V16 that would probably tell a lot.

John Bigboote · May 13, 2011

AHA! I stumbled upon it! The problem (I am having) is when a 2nd instance of an object that uses SSS is brought to the stage, it renders as black. (See image) This would have many potential effects when using multiple objects, like a crowd scene with multiple instances of the same character with SSS... or even a holiday Advent wreath or Jewish 'menorah' with several candles (oy-vey! a perfect usage of SSS) which are all the same model duplicated in the choreography.

BEFORE I submit this, can I get someone to test my project to see if it happens to them as well?

SSS_trubbs.prj

NancyGormezano · May 13, 2011

BEFORE I submit this, can I get someone to test my project to see if it happens to them as well?

same here.

Shelton · May 13, 2011

Loaded several character s with sss, worked ok, then it did not work so same here.

Faces disappeared that had sss

robcat2075 · May 14, 2011

I get the same behavior as you so i put in an AM report.

I looked at the behavior in V13 a bit more closely and noticed that the rotation values increment as expected to about 15900 degrees and then at 15:28 flip down to about -15900 and continue to increment from there. There is a noticeable jump inthe bone rotation at the switch.

I presume some sort of value limit is being exceeded in a variable. V13's behavior is probably more "wrong" but gave the appearance of working past 16 seconds.

It occurs to me that this may not be truly solvable since there's no variable type that's truly infinite in range yet would have the precision needed to represent the rotation accurately. Or is there?

robcat2075 · May 14, 2011

Can other values be moved past 16,000 reliably? Like an X translate?

itsjustme · May 14, 2011

I get the same behavior as you so i put in an AM report.

I looked at the behavior in V13 a bit more closely and noticed that the rotation values increment as expected to about 15900 degrees and then at 15:28 flip down to about -15900 and continue to increment from there. There is a noticeable jump inthe bone rotation at the switch.

I presume some sort of value limit is being exceeded in a variable. V13's behavior is probably more "wrong" but gave the appearance of working past 16 seconds.

I think you're correct, Robert.

I get the same behavior as you so i put in an AM report.

I looked at the behavior in V13 a bit more closely and noticed that the rotation values increment as expected to about 15900 degrees and then at 15:28 flip down to about -15900 and continue to increment from there. There is a noticeable jump inthe bone rotation at the switch.

I presume some sort of value limit is being exceeded in a variable. V13's behavior is probably more "wrong" but gave the appearance of working past 16 seconds.

It occurs to me that this may not be truly solvable since there's no variable type that's truly infinite in range yet would have the precision needed to represent the rotation accurately. Or is there?

You can use a setup like the one in the Circular Orbit tutorial...it loops. There is a propeller using the same rig in this post.

Can other values be moved past 16,000 reliably? Like an X translate?

I hadn't tried that until you suggested it...it errors out at 15:28 as well. That I don't understand. I used a 'Z' translate, but I think the results would be the same whichever direction you try. Here's an example Project. Hit "play" and watch from above, when the time gets to 15:28 the bone will jump backwards (it does the same thing in v13, v15 and v16RC2. This may be a totally different issue than I thought it was.

Expression_translation_issue.zip

robcat2075 · May 14, 2011

AHA! I stumbled upon it! The problem (I am having) is when a 2nd instance of an object that uses SSS is brought to the stage, it renders as black...

BEFORE I submit this, can I get someone to test my project to see if it happens to them as well?

I get it too. Has someone AMreported this?

yoda64 · May 21, 2011

Ok , guy's , I'm now back from my holidays (without computer or internet acess ... :-))

Hmm...I made a report on AMReports that has disappeared, at least I can't find it now. It must have been because of the timing, I posted it just before the release.

The problem was also present in v15, but not in v13. If you use an Expression to rotate a bone, it will stop at 16,000 degrees. Previously, it would just cycle once it hit 16,000 degrees.

If nobody else reports it before I get home tonight, I'll report it again.

I have moved this issue to v17 , because the fix has needed changes in the deep (changing the datatype for a variable from "long" to "long long", which implies some additional changes).

Some other issues I have moved too, in the case You didn't see it longer ...

Another thing

/* rants and raves */

As fuchur mentioned, I had to switch the mac version from gcc4.0 to 4.2 , mainly for OpenMP/OpenCL , this has cost me around 3 weeks (excluding the holidays)

182 xcode projectfiles to change / recreate ..., it's running now , BUT

today I have found that a bug in gcc 4.2 doesn't allow to use OpenMP in the final render process :-(, it's fixed in gcc 4.4 and above , but Apple doesn't support this compiler versions

in Xcode :angry2:

/* rants and raves */

robcat2075 · May 21, 2011

Ok , guy's , I'm now back from my holidays (without computer or internet acess ... :-))

You deserved a break.

/* rants and raves */
As fuchur mentioned, I had to switch the mac version from gcc4.0 to 4.2 , mainly for OpenMP/OpenCL ,

OpenCl, that's some sort of GPU computing thing...that sounds like some new wonders are on the way.

Fuchur · May 22, 2011

Ok , guy's , I'm now back from my holidays (without computer or internet acess ... :-))

You deserved a break.

/* rants and raves */
As fuchur mentioned, I had to switch the mac version from gcc4.0 to 4.2 , mainly for OpenMP/OpenCL ,

OpenCl, that's some sort of GPU computing thing...that sounds like some new wonders are on the way.

OpenCL is the more open version of CUDA (only available for Nvidia). > GPU based computing, for certain tasks it can be much faster than the CPU.

We will see when it can be used with A:M. It is all in a very early state and it needs some serious coding to get that into A:M, if I understood Steffen correctly.

v17 is still quite far away, so be patient.

See you

*Fuchur*

itsjustme · May 22, 2011

Ok , guy's , I'm now back from my holidays (without computer or internet acess ... :-))

Hmm...I made a report on AMReports that has disappeared, at least I can't find it now. It must have been because of the timing, I posted it just before the release.

The problem was also present in v15, but not in v13. If you use an Expression to rotate a bone, it will stop at 16,000 degrees. Previously, it would just cycle once it hit 16,000 degrees.

If nobody else reports it before I get home tonight, I'll report it again.

I have moved this issue to v17 , because the fix has needed changes in the deep (changing the datatype for a variable from "long" to "long long", which implies some additional changes).

Some other issues I have moved too, in the case You didn't see it longer ...

Another thing

/* rants and raves */

As fuchur mentioned, I had to switch the mac version from gcc4.0 to 4.2 , mainly for OpenMP/OpenCL , this has cost me around 3 weeks (excluding the holidays)

182 xcode projectfiles to change / recreate ..., it's running now , BUT

today I have found that a bug in gcc 4.2 doesn't allow to use OpenMP in the final render process :-(, it's fixed in gcc 4.4 and above , but Apple doesn't support this compiler versions

in Xcode

/* rants and raves */

Thanks for all of your hard work, Steffen!

bubba · May 22, 2011

I have heard about OpenGL, but what is OpenMP?

Fuchur · May 22, 2011

I have heard about OpenGL, but what is OpenMP?

An open library that is used to multi-thread different tasks. (meaning using different cores at the same time). It is already in use in A:M and can be activated / deactivated in the option panel of A:M v16 for certain tasks like particle-systems, etc.

See you

*Fuchur*

bubba · May 22, 2011

An open library that is used to multi-thread different tasks. (meaning using different cores at the same time). It is already in use in A:M and can be activated / deactivated in the option panel of A:M v16 for certain tasks like particle-systems, etc.

Is this a Windows-only thing, because I cannot find any way to activate/deactivate multi-threading in the Macintosh version of 16.

robcat2075 · May 22, 2011

An open library that is used to multi-thread different tasks. (meaning using different cores at the same time). It is already in use in A:M and can be activated / deactivated in the option panel of A:M v16 for certain tasks like particle-systems, etc.

Is this a Windows-only thing, because I cannot find any way to activate/deactivate multi-threading in the Macintosh version of 16.

For the moment, it is Windows only. Steffen put up a note that he had to remove it from Mac because of a compiler(?) bug that prevents if from working in Mac.

Most things we do with A:M didn't use MP anyway so you wont' notice the loss much. Particle simulations and "Finding patches" (lengthy on very large models) are the two major things that can be sped up by it currently.

bubba · May 22, 2011

Another "Windows only" thing that used to work on the Macintosh is running more than one instance. But last time I tried it it would not work. Maybe related to this other issue.

robcat2075 · May 22, 2011

I recall you need an actual extra copy of the A:M program for each instance you want to run on a Mac. You can't run that same A:M multiple times like you can on a PC?

You've done the copy thing , right?

bubba · May 22, 2011

Yes I have done the copy thing. But during the 16 Beta phase, Yoda64 wrote a small Applescript so that we Macintosh users would not have to make multiple copies of the entire A:M folder.

robcat2075 · May 22, 2011

We'll need a mac user to chime in on this, i think.

bubba · May 22, 2011

I really think we need Steffen to chime in and give us a definitive answer - whether or not Mac users can (or will be able to) use more than one instance. And can we have a separate project open in each one.

Paul Forwood · May 23, 2011

I don't know if this issue is specific to AM16 but as I have never seen it before I'll put it in this thread:

As you can see in the attached screen grab, I have the Project Workspace enabled but it is no where to be seen.

Any ideas why it might not be showing?

---------------------

Edit: Well, I don't know what caused it in the first place but going to "Help\Reset Settings" gets the PWS back again.

robcat2075 · May 23, 2011

Edit: Well, I don't know what caused it in the first place but going to "Help\Reset Settings" gets the PWS back again.

It probably thought it was placed way to the side of the visible screen.

markw · May 23, 2011

Yes I have done the copy thing. But during the 16 Beta phase, Yoda64 wrote a small Applescript so that we Macintosh users would not have to make multiple copies of the entire A:M folder.

Yes you can have more than one instance of A:M open on a Mac without a lot of messing about. Steffen has put a neat little AppleScript Application in the v16 folder. (see screenshot)

If you double click on it, it will launch A:M and then 30 seconds later will launch a second instance. The great thing is you can keep doing this. I have 6 instances of A:M running at the moment

bubba · May 23, 2011

Yes you can have more than one instance of A:M open on a Mac without a lot of messing about. Steffen has put a neat little AppleScript Application in the v16 folder. (see screenshot)
If you double click on it, it will launch A:M and then 30 seconds later will launch a second instance. The great thing is you can keep doing this. I have 6 instances of A:M running at the moment

I have the strangest problem with Steffen's scripts: They will NOT run on my machine if I double click on it. Both the multiple master as well as net render just will not work - as is. BUT, if I open the script in the AppleScript Editor and click RUN the button, they work. Or if I re-name it and save it as an application it then works.

Go figure? BTFOOM

If you have six instances running at the same time, do you have six different projects open also?

markw · May 24, 2011

Yes you can have more than one instance of A:M open on a Mac without a lot of messing about. Steffen has put a neat little AppleScript Application in the v16 folder. (see screenshot)
If you double click on it, it will launch A:M and then 30 seconds later will launch a second instance. The great thing is you can keep doing this. I have 6 instances of A:M running at the moment

I have the strangest problem with Steffen's scripts: They will NOT run on my machine if I double click on it. Both the multiple master as well as net render just will not work - as is. BUT, if I open the script in the AppleScript Editor and click RUN the button, they work. Or if I re-name it and save it as an application it then works.

Go figure? BTFOOM

If you have six instances running at the same time, do you have six different projects open also?

Yes you can have different projects open with MultipleMaster at the same time or alternatively you could work on different copies of the same project. I had 2 projects rendering whilst modelling in a third but I don't see why you couldn't have 6 different projects open.

As for your problem with launching MultipleMaster I can't see why it shouldn't run as is on your system as we're both running 10.6 ? I don't know, but perhaps your copy of MultipleMaster has got corrupted somehow?

In the attached zip is a copy of mine which works just fine on my machine, so maybe try it on yours.

MultipleMaster.zip