Love story

[Animus]

Hi! I recently modeled a stick figure like the one they use at Animation Mentor (that could be a no no, but it's for personal use). I like practicing simple basic animation, that one got longer than what I originally planned. I plan to refine it more, but I am not sure what works and what doesn't anymore(watched it too many times).

New eyes welcome.

parc_bench.mov

 

Michel

[bigH]

Hi! I recently modeled a stick figure like the one they use at Animation Mentor (that could be a no no, but it's for personal use). I like practicing simple basic animation, that one got longer than what I originally planned. I plan to refine it more, but I am not sure what works and what doesn't anymore(watched it too many times).

New eyes welcome.

parc_bench.mov

 

Michel

 

To cute - good work

[johnl3d]

Nice work

[Kelley]

Nice piece. Smooth movement. Maybe all it needs is a background.

[Xtaz]

nice animtion ... very good moves on the body and head ... the eyes are perfects ...since you choose to use IK, I suggest improvements in the arches of the hands ... At the end of the animation when character raises, it needs more antecipation in the movement... and a swing song will help

 

What rig are you using ???

The character looks very good to animate .... congratulation ...

[NancyGormezano]

I like it very much. I think it's wonderful how you communicated exactly what was going on without language, or facial expressions - except for eyes of course - very well done.

 

A tweak for me might be in the very last action when she grabs the guy - would like to see more of the guy's body have a jerking re-action in response to her pulling him down for the smooch - he goes from standing to lying down without any in-between action.

 

Like I said - very well done.

 

(yes I too am curious as to what rig you are using)

[Animus]

Thank you for watching and your kind words.

 

Xtaz, you are right, I used IK, it is not my preferate way of animating, but in this case the hands had to stick to the bench, I will put more attention on arcs.

I still have more tweaking to do towards the end. I will upload a version with music later on, that should add, maybe even hide some mistakes.

I use TSM2

 

Thank you Nancy. I put all my attention on having clear interaction, I am happy if it worked. And yes the last part is a little too rushed in.

 

Michel

[ypoissant]

Very well done. You have a good sense of acting and rhythm. You have a nice economy of movements and action but it still reads unequivocably well. And I especially appreciate that you did not overdo the anticipations. It shows that animation can read very well without this crazy anticipation we see everywhere and it gives your animation a beautifull subtlety and a style of its own.

[Animus]

Thank you Yves! I didn't work on any animation since the last post but tried to fit a soundtrack in, I think it adds a more comical extra to the scene. File size gets bigger though.parc_bench_with_sound.mov

 

Michel

parc_bench_with_sound2.mov

[NancyGormezano]

it doesn't play for me - I just get the first frame

[largento]

This is great!

[Paul Forwood]

Michel, your animation is superb and oh, so true. I agree that the end would look better if the jerk was exaggerated a bit more.

The version with the sound doesn't work for me either. I get the following error message:

 

The movie file "chiffchaff_w.wav" cannot be found. Without this file the movie cannot play properly.

[Animus]

Thank you, I hope you can watch the version with sound with that file.

parc_bench_with_sound2.mov

 

Michel

[NancyGormezano]

nope - doesn't work for me - I'm using firefox - don't know if that makes a difference

[mtpeak2]

Can't view it with sound either.

 

The first clip was great though.

[Dhar]

Very nice work Michel.

 

I don't use Firefox and I too cannot watch the other two.

 

Are you attending Animation Mentor?

[ptiversen]

I too am unable to see the mov file w/sound.? what up....

[nino banano]

Only the first work for me too...I like it...very well done animus

[Animus]

Thank you! I hope you can see that one I rendered with sound within AM, I had assembled the last ones in QuickTime.

No Dhar I'm not attending Animation Mentor, but I really like what they show in there semestrial showcases.

parc_bench_with_sound3.mov

 

Michel

[NancyGormezano]

ummm...I liked it better without the music - I think it might not be the best choice of a soundtrack - it seems to distract from your timing. My guess is that ambient comical sounds might/could work better ? - unless you can find music that fits better (personal opinion).

[ypoissant]

I agree. The music does not work. It is distracting, it does not fit with the story, it does not have the same rhythm, it does not support the animation. You would need, at least, to adapt the animation so the moves are paced with the music and the rhythm is matched to the music. This might not be a bad idea. But I think your animation worked without the music.

[Rodney]

I haven't seen the silent versions so I'm only seeing this from a perspective of it having the words and music playing.

I may not be hearing the same thing that everyone else is hearing but it seems I'll be the dissenting voice here.

 

The music works for me but I think the volume could be turned way way down so that its playing very subtly in the background.

As has been mentioned the animation/action is in the spotlight and you don't want to distract from that.

Its not as important to hear the words as it is to see the reactions.

Similarly any birds, and foley effects should be kept minimal IMO.

 

My rationale is two-fold for suggesting the music works.

First... the music/lyricks seem to lend itself to the story.

Secondly... the words hint at the activities on display. (i.e. the lyricks talk of 'if its love you're running from... there's no hiding place.' just before the girl runs past in the foreground. This hints at the character's inner feelings.)

The lyricks are entirely appropriate for your animation.

 

There was a moment where my mind drifted back to the 'romance' scene in 'Rattatoui'.

Your effort has that general appeal although I'm confident you won't feel slighted if I say its not as polished.

Its tough to compete with Pixar!

 

Often animation is timed to the music and lyricks so if the timing is off the animation probably needs to be adjusted to fit.

Assuming animating to this music is the goal of course.

I'd be interested to hear more from Nancy and Yves on the subject of where they feel the timing is off.

This would give you good insight into how to get the images and sound into better sync.

(Edit: I turned down the volume on my end and its seemed to work pretty well)

 

I agree also with the comments about the 'grab and kiss'.

Spend some time there in Anticipation, Reaction and Follow Through. Keep it subtle but that shot has to hit its mark!

As it is it seems a bit too quick, terminal... and we miss something really important. We miss the payoff and the satisfaction of these two characters finally (literally!) connecting. Perhaps the guy can tense up... then relax... as he settles in and realizes what has just happened?

 

Very nice animation!

[Animus]

Thank you Rodney! I think I will forget about sound for that one, I had never planned anything with sound and trying to fit something in afterwards does not work that well. I tought it was somewhat funny that a few keywords fit the situation. I tried a few more songs, but I feel a 30 seconds clip is too short for a song with lyrics. After 300 views, I got carried away with a change a perspective.

I made some offsets in the last part, I think it looks better, but it's still sudden end I wanted.

parc_bench.mov

 

Michel

[ypoissant]

I'd be interested to hear more from Nancy and Yves on the subject of where they feel the timing is off.

I will not make an editing job but here are my thoughts:

 

Usually, at least, when music is added to a film sequence, the composer takes care that the strong music moments match the strong sequence moment. The music supports and even lift the sequence in that way. Music is added after most of the editing is done. Film musics are rarely scored to a fixed beat. It slows down or accelerates to follow the action.

 

Experienced directors already have a good sense of rhythm and pacing that they adapt to each scene or sequence mood. Actors have their own natural rhythm too but they also adapt. The editors are the ones who rely the most heavily on a sense of rhythm and beats that emerge naturally in each sequence and this sense of beat guides their decisions to cut. All in all, when the music composer receive a sequence, it is not very difficult for him to figure the natural rhythms and beats and adapt the music accordingly.

 

Rhythm and regular beats have a purpose in films. They prepare the audience to strongly expect something on beat. When it does not come or when something else comes, it have a strong emotional impact on the audience. Films have several rhythms embedded one inside the other, like a fractal.

 

For animated sequences, music traditionally come before the animation and the director uses bar sheets to precisely time the animation to the music. Exposure sheets can also be used for this timing operation. This is not a requirement though.

 

I did a few animations in the past for educational multimedia products and I quickly learned to time my animations to the background music because it worked better with the viewer. And even when the animation did not have any background music, I would take a music track (not a song) I felt was in the right mood for the animation and I would use it to time my animatics before animating.

 

I never read any in-depth discussions about this topic in any animation books because when that topic of matching music beats to animation beats is discussed, the author just takes that matching for granted and that this is the way it should be done without further developing why it works.

 

But I had a few opportunities to discuss this issue with my multimedia collegues. The most agreed upon argument was that when music and animation have different beats, they fight each other for the viewer attention while when the two beats are in harmony, they support each other and do not distract the viewer attention. I think there is also a cultural expectation to see people dance or move in rhythm with the music when there are musics.

 

I think when animation is accompanied with a music, then the animation should be choreographed to the music almost like a dance choreography. Action beats and cuts should match music beats. I don't mean a purely mechanical adherence to the music beat but more like a musician would adapt to the music beat while still creating a unique perrformance. Like in music, animation may have silences and skip a beat or a bar for a hold, could wait for an off-beat, could use eighth-notes, sixteenth-notes, half-notes, etc. This becomes especially important when the music is very prominent.

 

I'd like to hear opinions from musicians on this issue.

[Rodney]

Thanks Yves,

I plan to print this topic for reference.

 

We've taken over the topic a bit so apologies to Michel.

I think he'll agree that there is some nice feedback and information here though!

 

In comparing the silent version of Michel's 'Love Story' to the one with music I find I prefer the one with music much more.

As I mentioned above it may have to do with seeing that version first.

 

As an exercise and example of storytelling alone 'Love Story' holds up well.

Without the sound I think all would agree that 'Love Story' story is missing something important. No?

 

Perhaps if it was changed to gray tones and given that old aged black and white silent film look?

Nah... the modern day bikinis wouldn't work too well in that context.

 

There are a few books out there that I'd like to get on the subject of sound and if I find myself with extra money to spend I might purchase a few of them. I'm already well over budget for book purchases in 2008 though!

 

While I was looking for the book I had in mind (I can't seem to find it) I found this link:

http://filmsound.org/animation/

 

Some useful information to be found therein.

[NancyGormezano]

I'd be interested to hear more from Nancy and Yves on the subject of where they feel the timing is off.

 

What Yves said. The chosen sound track didn't work well with the animation, as it conflicted with Michel's beats. It's like watching someone dance or clap to music who has no sense of rhythm.

 

Without the sound I think all would agree that 'Love Story' story is missing something important. No?

 

My feeling is it could benefit from some well placed comical or otherwise foley type stuff. Doesn't need music. But sound is not necessary for me to enjoy what Michel has done.

 

I made some offsets in the last part, I think it looks better, but it's still sudden end I wanted.

 

Yes. That works better.

[ypoissant]

Here is an interesting follow up on this rhythm issue. I was browsing "In the Blink of an Eye - A Perspective on Film Editing" by Walter Murch and here is a quote from the author at page 20:¸

Now, in practice, you will find that those top three things on the list -- emotion, story, rhythm -- are extremely tightly connected. The force that binds them together are like the bounds between the protons and the neutrons in the nucleus of the atom.

No less.

 

BTW, his list contains 6 criteria, in importance order (the percentage indicate the author's importance estimation), which should be simultaneously be satisfied in an ideal cut:

51% Emotion

23% Story

10% Rhythm

7% Eye-trace

5% Two-dimensional plane of screen

4% Tree-dimensional space of action

[Jentham2000]

Wow, that looks Great!!

 

I keep telling myself, someday I'll get to that level.

 

Fantastic!

[Animus]

Thank you Jentham2000, and thank you Yves , Rodney and Nancy for making that an interesting thread.

 

Michel

[brainmuffin]

Personally, I'd like to see him struggling a little when she grabs him. Sure, he's getting what he wanted, but it's still coming in an unexpected way. There should be a little flailing on his part before he realizes exactly what's happening.

 

I've got to say, I'm inspired to build my own stick figure to play around with!

[Rodney]

I'd like to see him struggling a little when she grabs him. Sure, he's getting what he wanted, but it's still coming in an unexpected way. There should be a little flailing on his part before he realizes exactly what's happening.

 

This is what I was referring to in my post above. He needs to react... be a little suprised... at least until the realization kicks in.

I don't know anyone that would react as calmly as this guy.

 

Go ahead... practice it on your significant other... I'll wait here.