My Image Contest Entry

[aaver]

Now when the Image Contest is finished I'd like to congratulate Colin, Noah, John and Mike. Very good work, indeed!

To learn more, I also like everyone to tell me what's good and what's not so good with my entry. Don't be shy. I'd really like to improve the image and I think my ego can handle almost anything

 

I'm interested in critique on everything:

• Lighting
  
• Composition
  
• Modelling (The full detailed engine took too long to render so I exchanged it with a proxy that has some issues that I'm aware of)
  
• The sky
  
• The ocean
  
• "Topic relevance"
  
• ...
  

 

I'd really appreciate it if you gave it some time

 

Thanks,

/Anders

[luckbat]

"Topic relevance..."

 

Okay, this is going to seem like a really cheap shot, but I do think it's relevant...

 

Simply put, for all his impressive achievements, Lindbergh isn't considered a hero by everyone:

 

"Only a Western wall of race and arms can hold back the infiltration of inferior blood and permit the white race to live at all in a pressing sea of yellow, black and brown ... We, the heirs of European culture, are on the verge of a disastrous war, a war within our own family of nations, a war which will reduce the strength and destroy the treasures of the White race, a war which may even lead to the end of our civilization ... We can have peace and security only so long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood, only so long as we guard ourselves against attack by foreign armies and dilution by foreign races."

 

--Charles Lindbergh, 1939

[higginsdj]

Not everyone knows everything about everyone but some look upon the achievements in aviation as heroic!

 

In any case here are my comments.

 

1. The aircraft is too clean with the lighting/render making it look a bit like a cardboard model.

2. Modelling of the aircraft looks great

3. Compositionally I would have preferred the AC on the left leaving a space in front of the aircraft. Your composition tends to lead the eye to the path behind - the path already taken rather than the path ahead - but this is subjective.

4. Although the sky and water look realistic they look too in focus for the subject. I would have applied some depth of field as the cloud at the top of the image (closest) looks real fussy but the distant cloud looks sharp. Combined with the bright colour it tends to draw the eye away from the AC.

5. I like how you got the background colour in the AC itself. Makes it fit in the picture rather than appearing to be stuck there.

 

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

Cheers

[heyvern]

This is truely an outstanding image. Beautiful.

 

The sky is well done so is the ocean, the plane... etc..

 

For me though... it just seemed... old hat.

 

I can't even tell you how many sunset images of aircraft over an ocean I have seen. It seemed to me to be a bit too much "been there done that".

 

The Lindbergh story itself is a bit worn and tired, at least for me. I don't judge his achievement based on his political views. He is still a brave and important figure in history.

 

I guess a beautiful plane on a peaceful ocean at sunset doesn't say hero as much as...

 

A really cool muscled guy flying through space with glowy stuff shinning off of his body, or a sexy woman with a really cool sword and not much else!

 

I only had 4 votes! I didn't even vote for the one that was a likeness of me! I feel very bad about that too.

 

Vernon "!" Zehr

[heyvern]

Okay, this is going to seem like a really cheap shot, but I do think it's Simply put, for all his impressive achievements, Lindbergh isn't considered a hero by everyone....

To Mike,

 

If you go down this road you will find it hard to have any heros.

 

Don't forget about eugenics in American history... look it up. Most people don't even know much about it unfortunately.

 

You can add to that same list of "unworthy heros", Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Winston Churchill, Alexander Graham Bell, H. G. Wells, Oliver Wendell Holmes, George Bernard Shaw ...etc...etc... ad nauseum... ick... yucky...

 

It was a different time... LOTS of people were stupid and misinformed by pseudoscience. Hopefully we know better now and have learned from those mistakes in the past.

 

Vernon "!" Zehr

[luckbat]

If you go down this road you will find it hard to have any heroes.

 

I agree with you, and I've no wish to bog down Aaver's critique thread with a debate on the true meaning of heroism. I just thought it was worth pointing out.

[itsjustme]

I'd go with David Higgins' assessment...I can't really add anything except to say that I only had four votes, it was very tough.

[hypnomike]

I too can only echo David's assesments. Take his advice and you'll have a picture that you could hang on the wall.

 

Great work and not being in the top four is no disgrace, the competition was top drawer.

 

Congrats to all who took part.

[cfree68f]

Thats a beautifull image as it stands.. Only two things I notice that are off with it. There is some light coming from the top of the plane that cast a shadow. Its off considering the sunset feel. I'd put a blue diffuse light there and put a red yellow backlight onthe plane to make it look like the lighting is coming from the sunside of the plane.

 

The clouds go all the way to the ocean and they shouldnt for such a long view and so high in the air. there should be a fade out on the horizon to perhaps the sun on the edge of the ocean.

 

The adjustments I'd make if it where my image would be to add a coastline and have the plane just leaving the edge. As if it were just flying out of America towards Europe. Maybe some fields in the distance, or a cliff under the plane. Thats a lot more work, but it would spruce up the image with some more detail.

 

Thats all I can think of.. its a good start though. I used to be sooo into aviation in the early 20th century. Make me want to go back and revisit my B17 bomber.

 

C

[starwarsguy]

Yeah, not everyone considers him a hero. I LOVE the water though. How'd you do that?

[aaver]

Thank you for the comments, so far

 

The aircraft is too clean

Well, the AC is on its first flight and I thought is should be rather clean, but maybe that's not what you meant. I certainly didn't want it to look like a cardboard model though. Do you have any idea of what will prevent it from doing so?

 

Your composition tends to lead the eye to the path behind - the path already taken rather than the path ahead

This was my intention, to focus on the achievement, the long path between New York and Paris. Maybe you are right about it being a rather weak pose though. What do everyone else think

 

[the sky and water] look too in focus for the subject

I put rather much effort in making the sky in A:M and I guess I got a little too proud of it and forgot about what was the main object in the scene. This isn't exactly the "kill your darlings" rule, but a bit related, i think... I'll try to remember this for the next contest. I know I wont, but I'll try anyway...

 

For me though... it just seemed... old hat.

I'll try to be a bit more interesting next time ...

No, seriously, I see what you mean Vernon.

 

There is some light coming from the top of the plane that cast a shadow

I was going for the mood ten or fifteen minutes after sunset and relied on a skylight, an "oceanlight" and just one yellow fill light from behind. With a visible sun it would have been a much more dramatic scene I guess.

The clouds go all the way to the ocean and they shouldnt for such a long view and so high in the air. there should be a fade out on the horizon to perhaps the sun on the edge of the ocean.

I guess I should have done more research for how a sky looks from this altitude.

 

The adjustments I'd make if it where my image would be to add a coastline and have the plane just leaving the edge. As if it were just flying out of America towards Europe. Maybe some fields in the distance, or a cliff under the plane. Thats a lot more work, but it would spruce up the image with some more detail.

It shouldn't be too much work to add some cliffs. The most work was in experimenting with the sky material. That's probably why I got in love with it

 

I LOVE the water though. How'd you do that?

The Ocean is a combination of a displacement map and a bump map. It is the same "wavy" image for both, but the bump map has a repetition factor of 30 or so.

 

 

Tanks all for your comments so far!

 

Also, you don't have to excuse yourselves for not voting on my entry. This thread is not about that.

[monster]

Hi Anders

 

As far as the lighting is concerned I would agree with colin bit of a red glow at the back of plane and I think perhaps the plain should be nearer the center of the picture as it is the plane is the subject of the picture but your eye,s get drawn away from it to look at the sky

With all that said its still a very nice picture

 

Raymond

[smudge]

The biggest issue I had with the image was with the aircraft itself. Cleanness and light were not the issue, depth of field/focus was. With any object that large, your going to have problems keeping it all in perfect focus (something the computer does so easily) especially when it's moving.

 

My suggestion is to add a dept of field so that the engine of 'the Spirit of Saint Luis' is in focus but the far edges of the wingtips and back tail fins are starting to loose focus. It will also help give a since of motion to the piece.

 

As for the topic relevance, I thought it fit very well, he being one of the pioneers of aviation. I also thought it was a nice departure while keeping with the spirit of the topic title. When they first announced the topic, "Oh God, It's going to be a parade of spandex," since in the American mind right now "Hero" is almost always superimposed with the term "Super" in front of it even if not said. Entrees like yours gave the topic a rather fresh approach.

 

And to be honest, this was a very strong filed of images to go up against. I would not feel bad about not placing in such a field.

[robcat2075]

I think I voted for this, primarily because you were one of the few to avoid the "men in tights" cliche. Not that men in tights are easy to do, but the topic was "hero" not "superhero". There is no shortage of real historical heroes (Harriet Tubman, George Washington, Charlemagne...) that could be drawn upon. I was really hoping to see real humans, not fictional ones.

 

Lindbergh is a fair choice. A flawed hero but he qualifies.

 

The Lindbergh story is "tired and worn"? That is typical of a culture that celebrates appearance over achievment. Even his horrendous political dumbness is worth knowing about.

 

Better for the image if we could have seen him but... the man and the plane, maybe too much to do in one month.

 

Good ocean, maybe too uniform in texture.

 

Not enough time to render the better engine? A month wasn't enough?

[higginsdj]

AC spew a lot of oily exhaust and 'gunk' not to mention weathering effects. 1 hour after take off the sides of the aircraft would show evidence of this but note that nothing is ever uniform.

 

The material used to build the aircraft was not perfectly uniform either - there are always variations. Did you model the aircraft from a photo or from a drawing/painting? If from a photo (or life) look for these variations. If from another drawing/painting then you are limited to what the original artist saw/imagined.

 

Cheers

[jamagica]

In that type of plane, you'd be able to see the wooden frames under the material..I suggest adding slight bumps of lines of where the frames stick out

[KenH]

Erm, I missed this in the vote. But I probably would have voted it sixth (if it existed) in preference as others were so good. You should enter it in the mechanical contest.

 

But in general, I'd be proud of myself if I made such an image.

 

Oh just one question....is that a hook at the back of the plane? How does that work?

[higginsdj]

Its a tail skid! Most AC of that vintage did not use tail wheels.

 

Cheers

[aaver]

Again, thank you all for your comments!

Eventually I will find time to implement some of your ideas

Regarding the idea of entering my AC in the mechanical contest, I guess it's disqualified by having been in a contest already, right?

Maybe I could donate the AC model to get rid of that problem though...

 

BTW, is anyone interested in how I made the sky in my entry.

I haven't seen volumetric clouds like these made in A:M before, but I'm not sure it hasn't been done though

Maybe it's just me that haven't thought of this possibility, but if there are enough people interested in this I might consider writing a short tutorial.

 

What do you think?

[starwarsguy]

No, you can enter your image in as many contests as you want!

[Paul Forwood]

BTW, is anyone interested in how I made the sky in my entry.

 

Sure A:M, Anders!!!

 

Please.

[KenH]

BTW, is anyone interested in how I made the sky in my entry.

I haven't seen volumetric clouds like these made in A:M before, but I'm not sure it hasn't been done though

Maybe it's just me that haven't thought of this possibility, but if there are enough people interested in this I might consider writing a short tutorial.

 

What do you think?

Yes please. I thought it was photoshopped.

[Sacman]

I would like to know about the ocean myself. I think the water looks great. Other than that, Davids comments were really right on. With Colin's comments about the lighting and the addition of a land mass this would have rocked. I did not see anyone mention the prop of the plane. That is actually the effect that keeps grabbing my eye. How did you do that? It looks great.

 

Wade

[modernhorse]

I think it is a beautiful scene and at first look I was smiling at it. At second look I was looking at it from the perspective of all the other comments but I was still smiling. I think by employing some changes (the terrain addition in particular) this image would be most magical. Please do keep at it and update this thread. A fine fine job ! I'm a sucker for this kind of thing can you tell?

 

Oh and I'd like to see how you did the sky as well. If I could get your model I'd like to (one day) try my hand at lighting a scene this strongly as well.

 

Doug

[aaver]

No, you can enter your image in as many contests as you want!

Well, you might be right, but I don't see a reason for the following quote if it wasn't for the competition to be anonymous:

No credit or copyright of any kind on the image, please! I will add them AFTER voting is done!

If Hash Inc. says it's ok to enter the same image for more than one contest, I might consider it, but it wouldn't be as much fun as making a new one, I guess - A lot easier, but not as much fun

 

I would like to know about the ocean myself

I have already said something about that in this thread. Did you miss it or do you want more details? I could let you look at the model file and the texture image if you want.

 

I did not see anyone mention the prop of the plane [...] How did you do that?

That is just a rotation action, motion blur and lot of passes.

 

I thought [the sky] was photoshopped.

No. It's not. It's all native A:M.

 

 

Ken, Paul and Doug,

Since you are the only ones interested in the sky, I will not write a tutorial, but if you like to, I could let you look at the model file.

[Zaryin]

Hey aaver, I was also, impressed with your image. And the sky is great. Make a tut .

[Dagooos]

Hi aaver

 

I am a little late but am interested in the sky too.

I wouldn't mind knowing how you made the clouds with volumetrics. I have tried to make clouds like before but never have got close to the success you had.

[Hutch]

I would like to know how the clouds were made also