TAOAM SURVEY

[jason1025]

Just think of the potential

 

SSS examples

 

 

Radiosity

 

 

Image based lighting

 

 

Caustics

 

[robcat2075]

Wow, A:M can do all that?

[Darkwing]

Aaaannd this stuff is for the 3rd edition, "So You Wanna Be a Master?"

 

And how come I never seen that Wolverine one before?!?! That's incredible!

[jason1025]

The wolverine was in a different package, however I believe AM can make renders that beautiful. Perhaps if we make these tutorials if will allow us to stretch AM's legs.

[John Bigboote]

Hey- I think I see my name in the options... whoo-hoo!

[jason1025]

Really thats all we have is 8 people willing to vote on this subject.

[robcat2075]

They are all interesting images but they seem a bit complicated beyond the new user level of a TAoA:M type book. Unless perhaps you can distill out a key concept that is being taught that has wide application.

 

Most users want to do "realistic" imagery, but how can that be reduced down to a single process that covers all the bases of the topic? It's a huge endeavor.

[jason1025]

Valid point.

 

But imo why re "Hash" the old tutorials? I have an assortment of tutorials cross reference all the toam tutorials. Why not re purpose those tutorials into a well organized TOAM.

 

IMO the basics have been covered over and over from every angle. Its those other features which have little coverage. and seem to remain secrets to a select few.

[Darkwing]

Again perhaps giving credence to a "second edition" aimed at the intermediate user group

[John Bigboote]

Jason, I belong to several forums besides this (Hash is the only 3D forum) and I can never get over the amount of LURKERS... people who are simply perusing, browsing, trolling- whatever... participation is for some reason quite a stigma. I, myself am guilty... every forum I ever joined I would 'stalk' for a while to test the waters. This forum gets plenty of traffic, we have TONS of members... maybe people need to be reminded we are in sort of a 'use-it-or-lose-it' scenario here in Hash-Land, your opinion MATTERS!

[Meowx]

Good tutorials for all four of the examples you posted would be a fantastic resource for the community.

[robcat2075]

But imo why re "Hash" the old tutorials?

 

I look at the current TAoA:M and feel it's not teaching some things well. That's my reason. TAoA:m is their first exposure to tuts and it needs to be strong enough to not leave them with confusion about how continue on.

[jason1025]

But imo why re "Hash" the old tutorials?

 

I look at the current TAoA:M and feel it's not teaching some things well. That's my reason. TAoA:m is their first exposure to tuts and it needs to be strong enough to not leave them with confusion about how continue on.

 

 

Valid point

[Roger]

My personal vote:

 

Dynamics (jiggly fat, etc)

Newton Dynamics

Netrender

Liquid

Cloth

[Zaryin]

Well, just to speak on the image I actually made, it's just simple three-light setup with my standard SSS setup. Nothing special in my opinion. It's A:M that made it look so good.

[robcat2075]

Well, just to speak on the image I actually made, it's just simple three-light setup with my standard SSS setup. Nothing special in my opinion. It's A:M that made it look so good.

 

That's a great looking alien. Are all the brown bumps a displacement map or modeled?

[Rodney]

to speak on the image I actually made, it's just simple three-light setup with my standard SSS setup. Nothing special in my opinion. It's A:M that made it look so good.

 

You hit on something profound here and I want to briefly explore this concept of 'nothing special' and the element of simplicity by viewing it through the chaos of complexity. This is a distinction that TaoA:M (read as 'the way of A:M') strives to capture beyond meerly syncing word, image and effort with the brain. Simply put, Jeff's orientation aligns him for success.

 

Most solutions are simple. So simple in fact that once discovered we marvel at their simplicity.

But because we tend to engage moving targets, finding and retaining solutions is rarely simple nor easy.

So we begin again our search as we seek to find our way.

 

Understanding the basic settings and principles of A:M can take us from our initial concepts (in their deceptive simplicity) to a final result (with all of its apparent complexity) while allowing us the ability to efficiently and repeatedly influence and effect the core of our self-made experiential deficiency; we don't yet know how to ask the relevant questions. Within the gap betwixt our self-set extremes lies the realm of animate opportunity.

 

There is something of a gap between 'nothing special' and 'how the heck do you do that?!?'.

[Zaryin]

The brown spots are displacement maps. I painted it as a displacement map in a:m paint then I used that as a reference in photoshop to make the color portion of the displaced area.

 

Rodney, you are definately right. I learned about three-point lighting and just gave the rim light a red, high intensity. I used my standard SSS setup (6, 4, 2 100%,or 5, 3, 2 100%), and placed the camera. I probably used a little too much reflection on him. Just knowing this simple information helped me make a fairly decent looking still.

[Darkwing]

I have a question. Your character seems to bend at the joints very well, so how did you get the joints to roll rather than stretch? Cause whenever I rig a model, my joints simply stretch creating this bizarre shape at the joints

[Walter Baker]

You forgot to put ALL THE ABOVE on the list.

So guess that is my vote.

Several in particular I would like to see and learn.

[Rodney]

You forgot to put ALL THE ABOVE on the list.

 

It'd be interesting and educational to see a show of hands of those that DO NOT want to learn any or all of the subjects listed.

While often of great interest to the pollster, I find most polls tend to answer themselves or strive to legitimize decisions/conclusions already made.

[phatso]

"I look at the current TAoA:M and feel it's not teaching some things well. That's my reason. TAoA:m is their first exposure to tuts and it needs to be strong enough to not leave them with confusion about how continue on."

 

 

Aaaaymen!

[Zaryin]

Hey Chris, If i'm being perfectly honest I have no idea, haha. I used those "middle bones" for the joints, I don't remember what they're called. I kind of remember doing some cp tweaking within the chor itself. Other than that I really don't think I did anything special.

 

Ps: I think they're fan bones.

[Darkwing]

Interesting. My largest problem is always at the shoulder, I've never been able to get that right. I should probably take this to the rigging section, but what exactly are fan bones?

[Fuchur]

Interesting. My largest problem is always at the shoulder, I've never been able to get that right. I should probably take this to the rigging section, but what exactly are fan bones?

 

FanBones are basicly bones, which will be constraint to (for instance) the shoulder bone with a smaller power than 100%. They are used to move small areas or often only one CP around a slightly different base than the original bone would do.

Like that you can create quite smooth joints. When finally animating, you will only move the shoulderbone, the fan-bones will be hidden. Like that you can preserve volume much better.

 

FanBones are very powerful and useful and can be combined with SmartSkins and / or CP-weightening to get nearly perfect results. Often Fanbones alone will make their job that well,

that you don't need anything else.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[robcat2075]

There are a few old characters on the CDs, like the elephant, where people were fan boning almost every CP separately because CP weighting hadn't been introduced yet.

[Gerry]

3Dartz (Mike Fitz I think) has, or had, an excellent tutorial on fan bones that comes as a pdf. It's several years old but still has useful info, and he still pops up here from time to time. (I tried going to his website but either he's working on it or it's down for maintenance, I just got an alert that additional plugins are needed to view it.)

 

Anyway if you can get ahold of him, you might ask him about it. Very good info, clearly explained. It has a special emphasis on rigging shoulders if I recall.

 

EDIT: It's a system he developed that he calls "Cog Bones" and it's basically a comprehensive fan bone setup that once you get the hang of it, comes in very handy. Unfortunately, I just went to open the pdf and it's password protected and I don't remember the password! PAGING MIKE FITZ!!

[Zaryin]

I think the reason the shoulders look good in my image is because I didn't model the body in the traditional "T" pose, but had the arms halfway pivoted to the hips instead. Look to my Spider-man thread in the WIP section to see what I mean.

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread with this, but thought I should answer.

[Darkwing]

Now out of curiosity, with that pose for modeling, what does you model look like when you bring the arms up higher in a pose? Any malformations or anything?

[itsjustme]

Now out of curiosity, with that pose for modeling, what does you model look like when you bring the arms up higher in a pose? Any malformations or anything?

 

The modified "T" pose has the shoulders relaxed, the biceps are raised as high as they can go before shoulder movement would be required.

[Gerry]

Yeah I believe Mark Largent posted or linked to something not long ago about the rigid T-pose falling out of favor for this more relaxed pose. When I was modeling my Weevil characters their weird shoulders kind of forced me to do a more relaxed posture and it didn't make much difference in the overall scheme of things, but on the other hand there's no shoulder deforming on those characters because of the modular anatomy and exoskeleton.

[Darkwing]

Hmm, though I wonder if overall it makes more sense to do the relaxed pose, because when I move my arms into a straight T position, my shoulders then require slight movement too, so perhaps the relaxed pose is more "accurate" if you will?

[itsjustme]

Hmm, though I wonder if overall it makes more sense to do the relaxed pose, because when I move my arms into a straight T position, my shoulders then require slight movement too, so perhaps the relaxed pose is more "accurate" if you will?

 

It depends on how you model your character. I've been using the modified "T" for a couple of years and now prefer it, but, an old-school "T" pose can be done equally well...you just have to account for it when modeling and rigging. Either can be done accurately.

[robcat2075]

I suspect the straight T gained acceptance "in the industry" because of primitive weighting tools that demanded parts be as far from each other as possible and because the TDs developing the tools probably hadn't done a lot of anatomically accurate modeling early on that would challenge the usefulness of the straight T.

[mouseman]

I definitely think that the T pose makes positioning the arm bones so you can get a more natural bend much more difficult.

 

The other thing I don't like about the T pose is that people tend to model the hands along the same axis as the forearm. CG hands tend to look very square because of this. If you hold your arm up in front of your face, straight up-and-down, with your palm towards you, you'll notice that your hand is naturally tilted towards the pinky.

[robcat2075]

I suppose half-bending the elbow would make sense too but I haven't seen anybody doing that yet.