Ideas for the Next Community Project

[Glob Studios]

It seems a little complicated to do a true Rear Window. I would be fine with Rear Window-ish, which is each person just doing the camera inside the room.

 

But I guess we could ask that each person doing a vignette be given a set with a transparent window and a camera pointed at it, which the person could create a room set behind. It seems like this might be more work for the person preparing the set, and might cause some problems making all the pans work correctly. But it would provide some additional opportunities for animation.

 

I guess the real gating factor is whether someone wants to do the extra work involved in preparing the true Rear Window set, making it available to the participants and stitching together the pieces.

 

-Vance

[robcat2075]

One potential transitional device would be to cut back to our Voyeur (Thom?) briefly to show him shifting his binoculars to a new view, then cut to the new segment, as they do sometimes in "Rear Window"

 

 

But i would prefer to be able to do it as a seemingly continuous scene, much like BUS STOP was. Or perhaps cut back to Thom just a few times to break it up a little.

[fae_alba]

Robert, there's not going to be an option for outside. This set is only for the transitions between scenes. The transitions will zoom into the room. This will be too much to render with a full set. I could redesign the set to be more like what Nancy showed in the trailer, a large courtyard with the the walls and windows all around it.

 

Are you saying each person is going to put the camera inside the room after the transition?

 

That's not "Rear Window"

 

Look at that trailer, every one of the views of the rooms is from Jimmy Stewart's perch across the street, the camera never goes inside.

 

that's the Rear Window concept i thought we were doing.

 

You're right, I hadn't realized that until watching the trailer. So the camera can zoom in a bit, but it will remain outside of the room (I had imagined it zooming into the room, but I like the Hitchcock parady even better (who's going to do the Hitchcock cameo piece?)

[robcat2075]

You're right, I hadn't realized that until watching the trailer. So the camera can zoom in a bit, but it will remain outside of the room (I had imagined it zooming into the room, but I like the Hitchcock parady even better (who's going to do the Hitchcock cameo piece?)

 

 

So we need to think of a way to make continuous transition work without looking like too much of a cheat and without needing to cut back to Thom every single time.

[fae_alba]

So we need to think of a way to make continuous transition work without looking like too much of a cheat and without needing to cut back to Thom every single time.

 

If we had just a few pre-made that could be edited in. Say, a intro shot of Thom, in a wheelchair, cast on leg, sitting and staring out his window. That establishes what is going on. Then perhaps a transition with the camera looking over Thom's shoulder, zooming out his window which then cuts to a contributor's window. Then an outside pan to the next, then perhaps a cut to facing into Thom's window with Thom looking thru binoculars. Randomly edit those in. We may need more, but I can stage extra edits as pieces come in from the forum to keep from re-using too many of the same transitions.

[Ilidrake]

Well how about calling it Room with a view, instead of rear window?

[robcat2075]

We have two problems to solve...

 

1) making sure everyone isn't using the same 2 or three windows out of the 20+ possibilities. We might avoid that by having people claim a window, first-come-first-served style, and somewhere record windows as "taken" so everyone knows. There is the problem that some people will claim a window and not get a segment finished but we could either live with that or allow some light overlap on the claims if there are more people wanting to play than there are windows available.

 

 

2) how to make it possible to transition the binocular view from any window to any window without having to insert a cut back to Thom every time. We could fix the order in advance by assigning it as participants come in, but that doesn't cover the likely hood that some will drop out. It's also likely that the most effective order for the segments will only be apparent after they are all submitted and the editor can assess them.

[robcat2075]

Here's a solution for problem #2

 

Let's say Nancy, Robert, Gene, Matt and dblhelix all say they are going to do a segment.

 

Each stakes a claim on a location in the set and does their segment.

 

In addition to submitting their rendered footage, they save and submit a chor that has just their camera keyframes in it.

 

Paul, our producer, looks at all the submitted segments and decides that the most felicitous order is

 

Matt, Gene, Robert, dblhelix, Nancy.

 

Paul takes the ending camera keyframe from Matt and the starting keyframe from Gene and pastes them into a new chor that will move the camera from Matt's last position to Gene's starting position. Let's say the move lasts one second.

 

He sends this chor to both Matt and Gene. Matt uses it to render 12 more frames after the end of his animation (the camera swinging away from his characters) and Gene uses it to render 12 frames before the start of his animaiton (the camera continuing to swing over to his characters.)

 

Matt and Gene send their additional frames to Paul.

 

In theory they should hook up exactly.

 

Paul does this for each segment pairing.

 

Paul will need to plan the order of segments so that there is enough distance between each one that at the midpoint of the swing neither segments' characters are visible.

 

Or if he really wants to follow a segment with one that is right next door, he coudl animate the camera motion to temporarily search to some other location in the set before ti reaches it's goal.

 

What if one of the segment makers doesn't render their additional transition frames? Then an insert cut back to voyeur Thom could be used as a transition

[thekamps]

Maybe I'm missing something but to me it seems too easy.

If everyone just knows the dimension of the window or has a cut-out or stencil of the window to go by then...

Everyone does their scene to fit and renders it without the building or window or anything

One person does the render of the transitions from one window to the next.

Then each scene could be composited into any window location or even rendered on a plane.

Might not be true 3d but...

[robcat2075]

Might not be true 3d but...

 

 

There's that. Most windows will not be seen at a straight-on angle where that would work.

 

Also, not every thing may happen within the frame of a window. a character may be lean out of the window, may be on the balcony, may be down on the street or in a doorway.

[fae_alba]

Might not be true 3d but...

 

 

There's that. Most windows will not be seen at a straight-on angle where that would work.

 

Also, not every thing may happen within the frame of a window. a character may be lean out of the window, may be on the balcony, may be down on the street or in a doorway.

 

The other option that I'm leaning towards is have each person put together their chor, submit the chor as robcat suggests, then I work the transitions myself. Seems that would be simpler, cleaner, and potentially quicker.

[robcat2075]

The other option that I'm leaning towards is have each person put together their chor, submit the chor as robcat suggests, then I work the transitions myself. Seems that would be simpler, cleaner, and potentially quicker.

 

Many people who use their own creations will be hesitant to submit a full chor with characters.

 

Make it known at the outset that part of their participation will be to revisit their work to render these transition frames, make them do it for you. You'll have lots to do none-the-less.

[fae_alba]

The other option that I'm leaning towards is have each person put together their chor, submit the chor as robcat suggests, then I work the transitions myself. Seems that would be simpler, cleaner, and potentially quicker.

 

Many people who use their own creations will be hesitant to submit a full chor with characters.

 

Make it known at the outset that part of their participation will be to revisit their work to render these transition frames, make them do it for you. You'll have lots to do none-the-less.

 

I'm hearing ya...so I'll take an evening this weekend and lay out a project plan for this..I'll approach it as you suggest. We need to finalize the set. Will we want a courtyard to keep it as like Hitchcocks work, or use the set we have and add across-the-street buildings?

[robcat2075]

I'm hearing ya...so I'll take an evening this weekend and lay out a project plan for this..I'll approach it as you suggest. We need to finalize the set. Will we want a courtyard to keep it as like Hitchcocks work, or use the set we have and add across-the-street buildings?

 

Full across-the street-buildings may not be needed at all it we introduce Thom properly.

 

I think Mark has the essential idea going, it just needs some variety added to it like I commented earlier. I think he's pursuing that.

 

Let's see what his next iteration looks like.

[fae_alba]

Full across-the street-buildings may not be needed at all it we introduce Thom properly.

 

I think Mark has the essential idea going, it just needs some variety added to it like I commented earlier. I think he's pursuing that.

 

Let's see what his next iteration looks like.

 

works for me. I suppose now's the time to update my subscription.

[John Bigboote]

Don't eliminate any possibility of using the window itself as a prop... so if someone wants to break the window pane, or put a pie on the window-sill, or jump out altogether... they can...

[mouseman]

Don't eliminate any possibility of using the window itself as a prop... so if someone wants to break the window pane, or put a pie on the window-sill, or jump out altogether... they can...

Yes, I agree! That is something that worked really well on Bus Stop (i.e. with the storm drain and the manhole cover).

[Ilidrake]

*bump*

[Paul Forwood]

It has gone pretty quiet in here.

This is a set that I started as an exercise:

 

I've been waiting to see if Mark was going to post an update of his set.

This one is a long way from being finished.

[mtpeak2]

That looks great Paul. I haven't had time to do anything on the set, I'd say go with it. Try rendering at 854x480.

[fae_alba]

Paul that's great..some larger windows for better viewing would make it easier to work with. So I'm going to push a little, and ask how soon a set project can be released to the forum so folks can start working on their submissions?

[Paul Forwood]

Thanks, Mark. Here is a render at 854x480:

And here are a few frames panning the set:

Build_A02.mov

 

I'm going to push a little, and ask how soon a set project can be released to the forum so folks can start working on their submissions?

Thanks, FaeAlba. I started this model to illustrate how the editing might work and was considering the idea of a facade, something like this set, where lights would go on or off in the various rooms, catching the attention of the James Stewart character/Thom. When you cut to a view through the binoculars/camera/telescope it would be a view through a window into one of 4 or 5 different room models. The room models would be completely separate models from this set. This set could be used just for the long shots.

 

I could provide this set sometime next week, in a more advanced state, but it might still be too crude to use for close ups.

[robcat2075]

Nice set, Paul! That's defintely "Rear Window"

 

I think some texturing on the plain surfaces is probably the main missing element.

[Paul Forwood]

Thanks, Robert. I'm waiting until the window and door apertures are correctly scaled and positioned before doing any texturing. I can probably get that done tomorrow.

[Paul Forwood]

Sorry about the file size, even at 640x360.

Build_A02b.mov

[Gaduunka]

I was thinking... If we still have a problem with transitions, why not add a motion blur, when panning to a new window?

[Paul Forwood]

A slight update:

[robcat2075]

Can you do a brighter lighting scheme? That one too dark for me to see much.

[Rodney]

Love the movie with the archer Paul. Fun stuff!

[Paul Forwood]

Can you do a brighter lighting scheme?

I will do a few daylight renders as I continue to tidy up this set.

 

Love the movie with the archer Paul. Fun stuff!

Thanks, Rodney.

 

Build_A02j_Masked.mov

(Loop at 1/2 speed, full screen)

[fae_alba]

Hey Paul, just checking to see how you're doing? We close to a set to work from?

[Paul Forwood]

I ordered the DVD for Rear Window because I couldn't work out how the set was constructed in certain parts and it arrived yesterday. I think there is enough information in the opening sequence for me to complete the set now. It will still be very proxy-like but should be okay for getting started. I can continue to tweak so long as the windows, doors, etc don't change their location or scale.

 

I will post the set model tonight, (GMT time).

[John Bigboote]

Looking GOOD! Big thumbs-up, Paul! this is exciting!

[Paul Forwood]

Sorry, folks! Impossible to get anything done today! I'll try again tomorrow.

[fae_alba]

thank you much!

[thefreshestever]

exciting! i´m in

but there shouldn´t be sound other than backgound music... the viewer is so far away that he wouldn´t be able to hear anything other than a really loud scream or so...

hmmm.. i guess if i wanna do a fart-joke again it has to be a really really big one

[Paul Forwood]

Sorry about the delay. I still haven't addressed the many problems with this set but I am providing it as is because I haven't the time or desire to rebuild it properly. This set is more of a sketch where I was working out approximate sizes and locations of it's components. I started it to demonstrate how the transitions could work but got a bit carried away. Therefore you will find lots of imperfections that may need to be fixed for particular shots. Some of the buildings have window frames while others still need them. There are holes all over the place. There are no finished room interiors because this was only ever meant to be used for long shots. Make of it what you will and change whatever is needed. I placed most of the lights in a choreography so I am not sure how many you will find in this model, if any.

 

Anyway, here is the model:

RearWindowProxySet.zip

 

I think that a flat set would be much simpler to construct and use and could be just as effective.

[largento]

Not sure if this has already been suggested, but one possible way to solve the window problem would be to have the rooms dark and the first part of any sequence would be a light being turned on. This would attract the attention of the camera/binoculars and be the motivation for them focusing on the room.

 

The footage could start off being an image sequence placed into one of the windows and then once the camera moves in, it switches to a straight on shot not requiring the full apartment building model.

[Paul Forwood]

That is basically what I was thinking, Mark. All you need is one interior light which can be moved to the next room before turning it on. People could build their own room, or use one of several provided, to tell their story.

[robcat2075]

We don't need to water down the concept by making the set dark.

 

This transistion plan will work

[TheSpleen]

cool

[Rodney]

I know there is a lot of tweaking yet to go but...

 

Can we get access to the basic set as it is right now? (Has it been posted somewhere already?)

 

I seem to miss out on these projects and contribute only little bits and pieces (if at all).

I'd like to be involved in the next project and having some of the basic assets will help me start planning for it.

 

In other words... I've got a basic idea I want to work with now I need to start planning and budgeting for it.

[mtpeak2]

Are we using the set Paul started as a starting point? Has anyone continued where Paul left off?

 

I have been messing around with it today (fixing and texturing), but I was wondering if someone else was working on it.

[thumperness]

I'm ready for this thing to get going. We close?

[Paul Forwood]

I have been messing around with it today (fixing and texturing)

 

Take it to the next level, Mark.

[mtpeak2]

Here's what I have so far. There's still alot of work to do yet, it's going to take awhile. There's alot of remodeling to do as Paul mentioned in another post.

[Paul Forwood]

Nice work, Mark!

[robcat2075]

that looks sharp! How's the render time on a frame like that?

[mtpeak2]

Thanks guys.

 

23 secs, 5 passes, 854x480

[NancyGormezano]

Oh yes! that does look terrific! - but unless it's used as a roto, could be too long for rendering?

 

EDIT: 23 secs is impressive - is that with fakeao?