my image contest entry

[bentothemax]

This is my entry for the sci fi/fantasy image contest. I tried to combine the two topics

 

tell me what you think

 

Ive been having some difficulties with the render, it will ONLY be about another hour and half at most. Thanks for the critizm so far

 

The sprites (fire) won't render when i do a pass render?! The lights for the sprites barely cast any light. The lights are bone lights, set with an orangish color, 100 cm, at 125% and i ahve 3 of them. Does anyone know how to help me?!

 

UPDATE: FIXED ALL THE BUGS

 

2nd UPDATE: STARTING RENDER NOW! WILL POST WHEN FINISHED

 

3rd UPDATE: FINAL DONE, GOING ON THE ROAD BE BACK THURS NIGHT

 

 

4TH UPDATE: UDATED IMAGE NOW POSTED ALSO ON PAGE 2

Edited April 3, 2005 by bentothemax

[gschumsky]

This is my entry for the sci fi/fantasy image contest. I tried to combine the two topics

 

tell me what you think

The only things I could suggest would be add a little more light to the foreground (maybe fires or something that could be happening out of frame) so we can see a little more detail on the demon thing. Also, make the eyes glow a little bit, and if you're comfortable with particles, add some smoke and cinders (did you do the smoke tutorial?) floating up closer to the camera to add some depth. Maybe even use the demon skin material here.

 

That should add quite a bit to your image, if you have time.

[UNGLAUBLICHUSA]

Although I plan on entering, I agree that you need a tad more light. Perhaps some light from about knee level and close by...think flashlight under the chin on a dark night how it accentuates the features. Good luck!

[bentothemax]

Ok thanks, I've added fires underneath him and a little hint of doom 3 . Im gonna start a 16 pass render now, I'll update my picture when its finished.

[KenH]

That's not bad at all. I think he could use something on his head...maybe horns. Also, some edges of the character seem abit mechanical looking. I like the background.

[UNGLAUBLICHUSA]

I think you will get more votes than me, heres my crit for what its worth:

1. Love the textures (materials), the crackled ground, rusty drum, ruined walls.

2. Nice sky effect and fires.

3. Lighting is dramatic.

4. Abdominals seem squared, I think this might be what Ken was referring to, if you can round the edges that would be nice. Also, on well defined abdominals you will find that they interlock (stagger) somewhat - check out some bodybuilder pics to see what I mean.

 

Good job.

[jon]

since i haven't seen anyone mention it, i'll just say it's poor form to post a contest image before the voting results, and it will also most likely hurt your final standing. you give up the 'wow' effect.

 

i will agree with the mob here and say that the image is too dark overall. since folks are always telling me my images are too dark, i think that adds a little extra weight ' ' )

 

i'm also sure that you can find a more dramatic camera angle to better communicate the power and horror of your character. my suggestion would be to get lower and closer with the camera.

 

good luck!

-jon

[Rodney]

I have to concur with Jon concerning posting images prior to competition.

While it doesn't rule out a vote from me I consider the fact that I've seen the image prior to the contest.

 

"Bad form" is a good way to put it.

 

I've mostly given up on commenting on the practice though as it'll apparently never end.

Maybe I should just automatically rule out any image that was preannounced as eligible?

Seems harsh but it might be easier just to buy my vote.

 

On the other hand I do understand the thrill of entering the contest and the overwhelming need to share.

[KenH]

I think they're posting now because they feel they won't get near the top votes anyway.

[UNGLAUBLICHUSA]

It hardly seems innapropriate to not follow a non rule.

 

I posted mine, not to get votes (I don't see how that would get votes anyway) but to get feedback. Maybe I could have waited, but I worked on it (off & on) for a month and feel a little eager. Maybe someone who knows how to post a "poll" can get a concensus & ask HASH to have a rule implemented.

 

Until then, I say "No rule - no foul".

 

In some other forums it is "good form" to post your project from doodle to final render as you go along, like say "The Machineflesh Challenge" or "Grand Space Opera Challenge". That way seems prefferable to me and is how I went along, but if someone wants to go straight to the showcase thats up to them too.

 

Just my 2 cents.....

[jon]

its not a "rule"... but the request to remove all identifying marks on the image should give you the idea that entries are supposed to be anonymous.

 

can you think of another reason for the request?

 

it's not a huge issue, and in most cases -- as i said -- it hurts the entry, not helps it.

 

-jon

[Kamikaze]

If there is no rule specifically prohibiting showing your entry before all votes are in then smoke em if you got em, if you want to........and if it happens to be one of my fav's then Ill vote for it..if not.....I personally like not to, but..I have entered contests that if someone has a good memory and/or wishes to search the forum they my find that before the contest was posted I had posted in the WIP or Showcase with a certain model....but it would be when the contest is open for voting for until then no one knows (excluding Steve) what or if I'll enter.

 

Michael

 

P.S. Jr. Bush's gas price in Arkansas = 2.16 a gallon

There are 52 million people in this country I'd like to send my petro bill to.

[UNGLAUBLICHUSA]

Actually Jon I thought it was for the reason that it would then be illegal for them to post the images without the express written consent of the copyright holder. That might in some way be another good reason. Steve, can you chime in here and settle this.

[bentothemax]

I was just eager to show my image, plus i got alot of good critiscm from the beginning, in my mind the image looks alot better and pretty good for v 10.5 (which constantly crashed).

 

 

Thanks for all of the critiscm and discusion, I agree it wasnt a good idea to post before the contest voting . . . oh well

 

 

 

Thanks again,

 

Ben

[cfree68f]

I'm of the mind that if you posted before the contest was anounced.. No harm no foul. as witnessed by my hero post.

 

But I prefer not to post after the topic has been announced just for the reasons stated allready.

 

Don't sweat it. Its all about people helping people. The contest isnt that serious.. and its mainly for fun anyway. True you get fellowship if you place. But I doubt many people are overly influenced to vote for you just because they've seen your stuff before.

 

C

[Dagooos]

I like the character and the background is nice but....That pose is well... not very exciting. too symmetrical and stiff looking. Maybe a different camera angle and a strong pose and a little motion blur on the wings would do wonders for this image!

[JohnArtbox]

Like Dagoos, I think the major weakness is the symmetry of the figure and it's upright nature. They tend to make the figure less dynamic. Adding light and/or highlights would also help.

On the image competition front, while Hash seem to discourage identification, how many people can identify which entry is Will Sutton's, or mine. At least a quarter of the entries are identifiable by characters or style. Personally, I quite like the development style of image contest. I think it encourages learning.

But it's Hash's competition/choice.

[Godfrey]

I agree as well; perhaps if he were snarling at the camera and stretching out an arm as if to grab the viewer, with the other one pulled back for balance; and with the camera positioned a bit lower, looking up at the figure so that he seems to tower over the viewer. (Too late for the contest, I know.)

 

On the image competition front, while Hash seem to discourage identification, how many people can identify which entry is Will Sutton's, or mine.  At least a quarter of the entries are identifiable by characters or style.

Yup. Especially when you see a model in someone's avatar dancing around every day. But I vote based on a whole lot of criteria; the artist's identity isn't one of them. (Well, okay... I won't vote for my own work, but other than that I don't consider who made an image.) Composition, technical skill, originality, adherence to theme... those are a lot more important to me.

[Eos]

It looks good, and with the proper slight modifications (I agree about the lighting, the guy's pose and camera angle and the too squared bump maps), it will definitely be a nice final image.

 

About the idea you guys have been talking about, the whether-or-not posting your contest entry before the voting, I think that this place, the Hash Forum, is mostly a community where everyone has the same rights and musts. Sure, the monthly contest is a very good chance for competition between us, and it generates excelent works and makes everyone try harder and do some effort in 3d; but we musn't forget that we are a community after all.

 

So I appreciate the valious feedback of my work better than hiding my effort just to see if the "surprise take" will get me better votes. Personally, this is my second image contest work. The first one was unnoticed and I posted it only after the votings and stuff were done. Then, just for fun, I made a wallpaper-like image with the character and someone mentioned in the forum: "That looks better than your contest entry". "Damn!", I thought, "If I only had put the image before, maybe I would realize that before sending my image for the contest. I looked it in the AM Stills and I agreed. It lacked colors, lighting and details.

 

Maybe for the big-experienced and self secure animators of this forum, it's better to make a spectacular and surprise entry everyone is going to enjoy. But for unnexperienced ones like me, it's better to share and learn. i enjoyed posting every single part of my work since I modelled the dragon in the WIP, and everyone made excellent crits and recommendations. Without that, I wouldn't come out with my final image that easily. Also I think that showing your effort, posting the long and hard steps you had to do before the result, is more valuable than just popping out the final render in the contest. I see the avatars of people and I recognize models they did on past threads. "Oh yeah, that's the car he modeled, I remember the good economy of patches he got", and stuff like that.

 

Just my (so-large-maybe-nobody-will-read) two cents.

[bentothemax]

Eos just summed up about everything i think in 3 really long paragraphs . . . thanks

[ChrisThom]

I curious why you would want to post your contest entry on here while the contest is going on? Isn't there a chance it could taint the vote? Or is that what you are looking for?

 

I would think it would make more sense to just enter the contest with what you have that you're happy with. Then after the vote and winners have been declared post your image here and ask for critiques.

 

It's like you're trying to play the judges:

"Can I win now?"

"No, fix A, B & C."

"OK...fix, fix fix...Can I win now?"

"No, fix D & F."

"OK...fix, fix fix...Can I win now?"

etc.

[bentothemax]

lol, I see your point. The image i was satisifed with before was about a half as good compared to that shot. After all of the suggestions and crit i have gotten, my final image will, in my opinion, be 2 times as good as the one that is 2 times as good as the last one. It's not about the contest really in my mind, it's about the process before and after, that really matters because, i probabbly won't win, so that makes me strive for better. The contest did however provide motivation, to lead to what i think could be a great shot (for me)

 

 

However, i guess its all a matter of personal opinion.

 

Ben

[higginsdj]

I think some people take these contests far too seriously. There are 11 entries that have had at least part of them displayed/discussed on the AM forum before (mine inlcuded) but no one has 'complained' about them!

 

The purpose of the contest is *not* to win it but to be challenged to show off the *best* that you are *currently* capable of using *your own style*. It does not matter that someone has had the 'advantage' of seeking advice on how to improve. If you haven't asked then more fool you for *not* asking!

 

Cheers

[Mr. Jaqe]

I agree with mr. Higgins

[Paul Forwood]

I'll say it just one more time:

 

If we had a forum that catered exclusively to contests/competitions we could have clear rules/guidlines pinned to the top, topics for each competition, countdowns, links for references and inspiration, follow-up discussions, etc. This would stop contest announcements from getting buried in the General Forum and would be more likely to attract interest and may even inspire some folk. If contest rules are easy to find then fluctuating them from contest to contest is also more of an option, just so long as you can be sure that everyone has read them.

 

More contests, please, but with an easy to find home.

[Godfrey]

The purpose of the contest is *not* to win it but to be challenged to show off the *best* that you are *currently* capable of using *your own style*. It does not matter that someone has had the 'advantage' of seeking advice on how to improve. If you haven't asked then more fool you for *not* asking!

Actually, I suspect the ultimate purpose of these contests is for Hash to have spectacular images and animations which show off the capabilities of their product. In which case, if getting help on an entry or collaborating with others changes a viewer's response from "that's pretty good" to "holy cow, I've gotta buy this software", I'm betting Hash wouldn't mind at all.

[bentothemax]

I'm doing a render of my image, with some of the adjustments suggested. I really think it looks better. There is a bug, however, that i don't know how to fix. I have an ambiance map underneath my demon (who i affectioniatly call Demo, real original right?) that is supposed to be a solid orange glow. The only problem is that parts of it render cyan, when the ambiance map is set to over 100%

[Godfrey]

Well, the obvious answer would be "don't set your ambience above 100%".

 

That said, what version of A:M are you using, and what are you using to provide the ambient color? (a material, surface properties on the model, etc.)

[bentothemax]

I would set the ambiance at 100% but it doesn't have the same affect as 150 or 200 % that i want. I'm using AM V11.1e and the ambience color is as orange the ground model's surface properties, with a simbiont AM texture applied.

[Godfrey]

I would set the ambiance at 100% but it doesn't have the same affect as 150 or 200 % that i want. I'm using AM V11.1e and the ambience color is as orange the ground model's surface properties, with a simbiont AM texture applied.

If you're trying to get a more impressive glow, leave the ambiance intensity at 100% and bump up the Glow Intensity (and possibly the Glow Radius) in the choreography's properties.

[Eos]

Looks much better now. The Depth of field makes him come out of the scene. The only part that has trouble are the wings, they kind of get lost with the background.

 

Also the bat wings are actually like human arms, so you have two articulations, the arm and forearm, humerus and radius-cubitus, instead of one single rigid stick coming out of the back. I tell you this because it makes the demon guy look like he's hanging from a ceiling instead of floating or flying. Also you could consider making the wing membranes a little transparent so they don't hide the rest of the great background.