larswik Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I bought my first copy of AM at a show in LA and Marshall sold me version 3 and told me to download version 4 when I got home. This was around the mid 90's give or take. I upgraded a few time and the last one around 2000 when they just made the native switch to the OSX. I upgraded again but was disappointed with the stability. I have a project coming up and thought AM would be good for it. So 11 years later I am tempted to get it. I did some searches here but nothing new came up. Is it finally stable or will I be disappointed? I know they were great at repairing bugs when they couple be replicated but that normal unexpectedly quieting and loosing work sucked to much. If it is recommended now, are the upgrades the same $99 or has it been so long I need to get a new copy? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 15, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted December 15, 2011 Welcome back to A:M! A:M has been dramatically more stable since about v11 and crashes are quite rare now. I use the PC version but the Mac users here seem to be happy with it too. There are no more "upgrades" but you can buy the one-year license version for $79. It is locked to the one computer you install it on but you don't need a CD in the drive anymore to start A:M. After one year, it expires and you buy another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 The stability has vastly increased with recent versions. I work pretty much every day with AM on both pc and Mac platforms and though there are a couple of small workarounds on the Mac side that I now do automatically, it's pretty much the same on both machines with the exception that renders seem to be much faster on the Mac. The really big plus though is this forum, which didn't exist back in Ye Twentiethe Centurie. Come here with questions and believe me they will be dealt with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largento Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I'm approaching the point of being a longtime Mac A:M user and I can tell you that it's very stable. I use it daily and besides the workarounds Gerry mentioned, it's extremely reliable and v16 was an enormous step forward for A:M on the Mac. The sub price means you don't have to invest very much money to see it for yourself. Also, unlike before, both the Windows and Mac versions of A:M are developed and released at the same time with the same features. Rather than be vague, the workarounds have to do with "Save As..." dialogue boxes and other instances where you are directly interacting with the Finder and the Finder is greyed out. In most cases, switching from A:M to another app and back fixes the problem and in some cases, it's necessary to hide A:M and then select it again. It certainly is an annoyance, but the workaround is easy enough and like Gerry said, you get to the point where you do the workaround without thinking about it. If your Mac has a bunch of cores, you can set up multiple instances and really knock out rendering animation. v16 vastly increased the speed of rendering on the Mac, and when you can have multiple instances of A:M going at the same time, it's like having your own mini render farm. The downside would be that there are some plug-ins that haven't been created for the Mac. And some of the Mac plug-ins have long stopped being compatible with the current versions of OSX. A big loss is the Setup Machine for rigging. Development for it stopped years ago and although the Windows version still seems to work, the Mac version does not. The only other two that I can think of are a reasonably priced motion capture application and a "fake AO" plug-in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bigboote Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 The app has come a LONG way since 2000, when I bought it. That was V8, and I am currently helping to test V17. It is a real joy to work with this program, and I do it every day- competing with and amazing my Maya colleagues. The difference in RENDER time and quality just between V 15 and 17 is remarkable. Let us know if we can offer any more help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruscular Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 If you buy the year subscription, just be warn that you may not be able to upgrade to the CD version over on top of the year subscription. Either get the year lease or CD but not both on the same version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larswik Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 Cool, seems like you guys give it a thumbs up and stability is good. As for the plug-ins I remember that they were not always available for both platforms. The other issue that I had in the past but was a very small one and does not effect me but friends complained about was how AM was on it's own island and not compatible with other software. For instance I could use SynthEyes to track some video footage and save that as a Lightwave file and import that into Cinema 4D. Is AM still mostly a stand alone software or is there more integration with other products? That being said I am so surprised that 10 years later their prices are for the most part the same. I did by by for copy from Marshall Hash for $199. Crazy cheap for what it can do and the fact they can stay in business at these prices blows me away. The reason I thought about it was I am working on the graphics part of my iPhone app right now and wanted generic 3D guy objects like this http://www.dreamstime.com/stock-photos-3d-...k-image16682223 That reminded me of the yellow AM model and how I would have a hard time pulling it off with Cinema 4D. 10 years - I hope I can remember how to do patch based modeling again! Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 15, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted December 15, 2011 I'm pretty sure people have been using syntheyes or some other app to do motion tracking for A:M for quite a while. I know I've see examples here. Interaction with other apps? A:M has always been sold and promoted as an end-to-end pipeline for narrative character animation without needing to step out to some other app to do part of it. That is what it is designed and developed for. Outside of that purpose you need to study whether A:M and whatever other app you need to use have enough common elements to exchange assets. I know nothing of writing apps for iPhone so I can't tell you either way if A:M is useful for you. Image formats are pretty much universal. OBJ export from A:M seems to work well for people. Advanced users have animated in A:M and exported with MDD to render in other software when they needed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larswik Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 I bought the subscription version and the extra DVD download version. It opens well and I am trying to get use to layout again. The help stuff seems to start you off with animating already built models. I am now trying to remember how to create a basic patch. I know you needed 2 parts. First create the circle without closing it and then draw a second line that you attach to it. I forgot how to attach. is there any starter tutorials that start with basic patches? It will come back to me as some point. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bigboote Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Basic Splinesmanship tutorial; http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showt...=splinesmanship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 15, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted December 15, 2011 is there any starter tutorials that start with basic patches? It will come back to me as some point. Serendipitously, there's an effort to update the beginner documentation and you may find the first (and only , so far) installment: http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?s=&am...st&p=358113 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larswik Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Perfect. I found a youtube video that covered the basics. I forgot you needed to create a model and tried to create a basic patch in the Choreography area. I will spend to night re familiarizing myself with the basics again. I am really liking this look http://www.flickr.com/photos/melvinvoskuij...157624236168459 and it seems to be a global illumination with limited no textures really. I have use GI in Cinema 4D and I think I saw it in the list of features in AM. Thanks again fro all the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertexspline Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Welcome back larswik! Now that you have it you probably already feel the nice stableness as compared to years of ole. And Indeed -the community forum here is amazing for help. Most of time every question gets answered within a day or much sooner. So ask and ye shall have answers. You will also find so much learning items just searching through the forums. So enjoy ! AM really is better than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larswik Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 I am watching Roberts video and it is great and answering the questions that I have. So I found the project window I mentioned bellow. Yep, been at it for a couple hours now and no crashes. I like the online chat within the program it's self. I guess I can use that to ask people quick questions and such? Right now I am trying to find the project tree for my project. My model says Model1 and I am trying to discover its location and go through the tutorials the other gents posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertexspline Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Just go to view then open project workspace . It will open on left side. And every time you make a new model it will be called model so just rename it for clarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larswik Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 I watched Roberts videos and they were a great refresher on some of the basics. I tried to find the Workspace but it is not a Mac feature I guess. Weird? But a good start so far and well done Robert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertexspline Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Robert's stuff is stellar indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwing Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I'm approaching the point of being a longtime Mac A:M user and I can tell you that it's very stable. I use it daily and besides the workarounds Gerry mentioned, it's extremely reliable and v16 was an enormous step forward for A:M on the Mac. The sub price means you don't have to invest very much money to see it for yourself. Also, unlike before, both the Windows and Mac versions of A:M are developed and released at the same time with the same features. Rather than be vague, the workarounds have to do with "Save As..." dialogue boxes and other instances where you are directly interacting with the Finder and the Finder is greyed out. In most cases, switching from A:M to another app and back fixes the problem and in some cases, it's necessary to hide A:M and then select it again. It certainly is an annoyance, but the workaround is easy enough and like Gerry said, you get to the point where you do the workaround without thinking about it. If your Mac has a bunch of cores, you can set up multiple instances and really knock out rendering animation. v16 vastly increased the speed of rendering on the Mac, and when you can have multiple instances of A:M going at the same time, it's like having your own mini render farm. The downside would be that there are some plug-ins that haven't been created for the Mac. And some of the Mac plug-ins have long stopped being compatible with the current versions of OSX. A big loss is the Setup Machine for rigging. Development for it stopped years ago and although the Windows version still seems to work, the Mac version does not. The only other two that I can think of are a reasonably priced motion capture application and a "fake AO" plug-in. Not to be the negative person who tries to throw a wrench in the works, but I kinda frequently have stability issues with my AM and Mac. V16 has improved on many of them and most have workarounds, but there a significant amount of times where the program just crashes just cause. On that note, I've adopted a now habitual save about every 3 seconds or less, I do it in other software too now On that note, I still use AM on my mac almost daily and have for a few years now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 16, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted December 16, 2011 but there a significant amount of times where the program just crashes just cause. The "It just crashes all the time" crashes suggest a video card driver problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwing Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Interesting. Pretty sure its an nVidia card or something but I mean, I do have issues with other programs occasionally and I've always just chalked it up to my version of Mac OSX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted December 16, 2011 Admin Share Posted December 16, 2011 Here's a delayed WELCOME BACK! Let the fun begin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandoriastudios Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I have some tutorial videos that might be a help to you. link in my signature: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykyl Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 The save dialog issues may be related to a system prefs setting. Open System Preferences then go to Universal Access then finally make sure "enable access for assistive devices" is UNTICKED. I have a few graphics programs like 3d coat and zbrush and others that had issues with saving and weird crashes that were solved instantly by making sure that was not enabled. If it works for you folks, can I have a free copy of AM for helping you fix it. Another issue I had in other 3d apps was divx. If it was installed it caused no end of potential problems. Uninstall it and that should help stability as well in Osx. Cheers Mike R (A long time lurker) (Oh and ignore that it says my hardware is Windows. Been on macs for about 4 years now.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 17, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted December 17, 2011 The save dialog issues may be related to a system prefs setting. Open System Preferences then go to Universal Access then finally make sure "enable access for assistive devices" is UNTICKED. I have a few graphics programs like 3d coat and zbrush and others that had issues with saving and weird crashes that were solved instantly by making sure that was not enabled. ...Another issue I had in other 3d apps was divx. If it was installed it caused no end of potential problems. Uninstall it and that should help stability as well in Osx. thanks for the tips! If it works for you folks, can I have a free copy of AM for helping you fix it. How about a special deal... $79 for one year? Cheers Mike R (A long time lurker) Welcome back! I think i just saw your birthday on the bottom of the forum a few days ago and thought," haven't seen that name in a long time." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwing Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 The save dialog issues may be related to a system prefs setting. Open System Preferences then go to Universal Access then finally make sure "enable access for assistive devices" is UNTICKED. I have a few graphics programs like 3d coat and zbrush and others that had issues with saving and weird crashes that were solved instantly by making sure that was not enabled. If it works for you folks, can I have a free copy of AM for helping you fix it. Another issue I had in other 3d apps was divx. If it was installed it caused no end of potential problems. Uninstall it and that should help stability as well in Osx. Cheers Mike R (A long time lurker) (Oh and ignore that it says my hardware is Windows. Been on macs for about 4 years now.) Unfortunately it looks like it is unticked already, so that means that it's unrelated I would assume and probably more like what Robert said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 17, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted December 17, 2011 Unfortunately it looks like it is unticked already, so that means that it's unrelated I would assume and probably more like what Robert said. Of course, your drivers are actually up to date, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwing Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 It was like this from the get-go. And TBH, I have no idea how or when a Mac updates things like drivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykyl Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 On Osx, drivers and any updates are all installed using Software update. This is found by clicking the apple symbol on the top left of your screen then choosing Software updates. If you open up the console while AM is running you might get a clue as to what may be causing the crashes from there. (Open up the spotlight search (top right of your screen has a magnifying glass) and type in console. Choose it from the list then work away with AM.) If it crashes or glitches then hopefully something in the console will give a clue as to the problem. Cheers Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bigboote Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Welcome mykyl and larswik ! Good to have some new blood infused onto our forum... any other lurkers wanna come forward out of the shadows? Please feel free to post often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larswik Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 So I have had AM for about week now and I am impressed by the stability now. I have still had crashes but only a few and that is impressive. The crashes are different this time around and instead of it unexpectedly quitting, it locks up, and nothing works forcing a Force Quit. But that has only happened a few times. The biggest challenge that I am having right now is not having seems show up in my models. This software is just way to cheep for what it can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimd Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 So I have had AM for about week now and I am impressed by the stability now. I have still had crashes but only a few and that is impressive. The crashes are different this time around and instead of it unexpectedly quitting, it locks up, and nothing works forcing a Force Quit. But that has only happened a few times. The biggest challenge that I am having right now is not having seems show up in my models. This software is just way to cheep for what it can do. HI Larswik I do not get AM lockups so i'm wondering if there is something else could you give the specs for your mac OS, ram, ect... also have you repaired your permissions lately and checked the drive for issues? j yes I'm on a Mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 21, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted December 21, 2011 The crashes are different this time around and instead of it unexpectedly quitting, it locks up, If you can find some set of steps that makes it happen that would be a good thing to report at AMReports. It will get fixed if you can show how to make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 hi larswik, there are some workaround issues on the Mac that if you don't know about them, you should. Mostly when opening, saving and rendering, the finder windows will be greyed out and unresponsive. The workaround is pretty simple: first, when this happens and you can't click the "cancel" button, just hit esc. and the finder window will close. Then, hit Cmd-H to hide the program. Next, hit Option-Tab to show active programs, select A:M and unhide it. Now all finder windows will behave normally. I've been meaning to make a screencapture movie showing this workaround and I will shortly. Also, before you go to render or do anything, Save! Let us know if this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtaz Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Welcome back larswik! about motion track I use PFhoe Pro 2.2 by Pixel Farm. It's working very well for my purposes and exports directly to A:M (PRJ). examples: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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