Wyoming?

[jason1025]

Any input would be appreciated. Anyone live there?

 

I currently live in california LA area.

[John Bigboote]

My brother-in-law who was a perpetual layed-off union construction worker here in Detroit has gone out there... making roads... from what I here he's making, they are paved in gold... beautiful country... colder than cold winters.

[jason1025]

Really its that cold in the winter?

[robcat2075]

What's the most wintery place you've lived, Jason?

[John Bigboote]

Here in Detroit(northern suburbs) we usually expect a week or two (sometimes a month) of sub-zero temps in January or February. (That's below zero, not 32freezing-farenheit... so like -10degrees with an additional windchill factor on top of that.) The only good that comes from sub-zero is that it won't snow when it's that cold... it 'warms-up' to 15-25 degrees to snow... snows, and then drops down to the negatives again.

 

Wind-chill factor in Wyoming is much worse, and the temps can get to -20 to -30. You will need good clothes. You will need an efficient modern-made house that hold heat well (my mistake) An all-wheel or 4 wheel drive vehicle is recommended. People can go stir-crazy or 'cabin-fever' or get 'sunlight deprived', so winter hobbies help... tanning. I play adult ice-hockey. Other hobbies include snow skiing, X-country skiing, snowmobiling, ice-fishing. I've been noticing as I get older more and more people I know are becoming 'snow-birds'... they take 2-3 months and go live in an RV down in Florida or New Mexico.

 

Summers are really-really extra-special nice tho!

[jason1025]

What's the most wintery place you've lived, Jason?

 

 

I lived in Waldorf Maryland for 3 years. It was cold at times but I liked the weather. The only thing I didnt like the overcast sky's.

 

Arizona and Florida had beautiful skys very clear. I felt clostrifobic when I moved to Maryland. But the weather was nice. I enjoyed the crisp clean cold air.

 

 

If I could handle Maryland do you think I could handle Wyoming?

 

I have tainted myself by living in sunny California for the last 10 years.

 

I paid 285 grand for a shitty condo. Its worth 135grand now

[John Bigboote]

I paid 285 grand for a shitty condo. Its worth 135grand now

 

 

DANG! The world has 'shat' on our generation as far as real-estate goes... I am in the same 'backwards' boat- everyone is! Our parents generation were 'blessed' with ever raising real-estate values... my folks paid $18,000 for their first house in 1960... and that was basically all they ever needed to pay- when they went to move in 1976 it was worth $50,000 so they sold it and bought another $50,000 home... which was worth $225,000 in 1995 when they retired and bought a simpler $70,000 home down south... which they just sold 'below value' for $140,000 last year... luckeeeeee!

 

I(Dawn and I) consider ourselves lucky that at least we enjoy our home and living there. I would love to move someday tho, it would cost too much right now... unless we 'walk away' and never have credit again...

[jason1025]

My problem is the condo was great when it was just my wife and I. Now I have a Daughter and I find that I have no where to hide, nowhere to put my stuff. My wife has a room, my daughter has a room and I have the living room. In Wyoming I could get a beautiful 4 bedroom house with over 3 times the square footage and lots of land for less than what I paid.

 

Worst of all. My association passed a vote to increase association fees from 312.75 per month to 369.75 per month. That is insane. But some how they did it. My mortgage is 2200 a month with associations fees for a shitty 2 bedroom condo. Now they want to add 57.00 to that.

 

Its crazy. I am letting this place go and I am getting the hell out of hear. I just want to pick a state thats cheap to live in.

 

Alaska, Nevada, Wyoming, and Florida are the cheap states. Florida is to humid, Alaska to cold, Nevada too hot, I am hoping Wyoming will be just right.

[John Bigboote]

Its crazy. I am letting this place go and I am getting the hell out of hear.

 

That's fine...just so long as you stay a Hasher! Actually... I just wikied Wyoming. 50th most populous, 10th largest. Climate is not that bad... good economy... I'll meet you there!

[largento]

I do know that Wyoming is mostly empty space. The population is around 560K for the whole state. There's around 4 million people in LA. The only other state in the US with a lower people-to-land ratio is Alaska.

[Bruce Del Porte]

Wyoming is beautiful but will be colder than Maryland in the winter and depending on where you are, will have considerably more snow. Wyoming is huge and has a number of micro climates (mountains and high desert plains) so check out the spot you are going to. I think the biggest culture shock will be how few people and how little civilization there is in Wyoming. There are about half a million people in the entire state spread over about 100,000 square miles. What that means is that trendy restaurants, live national entertainment acts and most shopping opportunities you take for granted in LA will be few and far between. People need to be very self reliant. There aren't many government services. There isn't cell service over most of the state's area and four wheel drive is life or death rather than a fashion accessory.

 

Life moves at a much slower pace. I moved from Maryland to Colorado that has five million people in about the same space and after a couple of years of adjustment when I go back east, I wonder how I ever lived that way. The air will be clean, the people friendly and your children will have good schools. Class sizes are small because there aren't many kids. If you like the outdoors and empty wide open space, Wyoming is your spot.

[NancyGormezano]

Alaska, Nevada, Wyoming, and Florida are the cheap states.

 

There's a reason they're the "cheap" states.

 

Wyoming has some really beautiful areas, but winters can be brutal, like nothing that you would have experienced in Maryland. Probably worse than Detroit. WIND. The beautiful areas (around the Tetons, ski areas, yellowstone, northern) are pricey, upscale, expensive restaurants, food. The ugly areas are truly UGGGGGGGLLLLLEEEEE (southern Wyoming). You better like closed, narrow minded people.

 

Do you work from home? What kind of job would you expect to find?

 

Since you've been an LA boy for so long, I'd say you'd might enjoy Nevada better, around the Reno, Carson City area. It would be less of a shock to what you're use to. Close to Lake Tahoe, the Sierras, more variety of activities than Wyoming, plenty open land, desert beauty, and the summers aren't THAT much hotter (but 100 isn't uncommon - dry heat, better than Florida), winters are mild. Can easily escape to the cool of the Sierras in summer, great skiing close by in winter, while the Nevada valleys stay mild.

 

Housing has also taken a dive in Nevada, so if you can swing it, Gardnerville/Minden is a nice place for families, 45 mins to Reno, 30 mins to South Lake Tahoe. Two of my cousins bought there (precrash): 3+ bedrooms - 1800- 2400 sq ft ($280k-360k), now going for $200K. Beautiful views of surrounding mountains, lots of open space. I'm not sure what kind of employment there is however - most work at local casinos. Try looking on zillow.com for Gardnerville.

 

And of course there is lots of creative work associated with the shows in Las Vegas (6 hours driving? from Reno), also another place that has truly taken a dive economy/housing price wise (the worst in country?). Henderson is nice, lots of activities, out of the tacky congested strip areas, but yikes the summers (april - November) are HOT. Expensive, wonderful top-notch restaurants, world class shopping, but the Las vegas area is a mecca for crime, con artists.

 

Yeah - Colorado, Washington - we're considering them (among other places).

[Gerry]

I drove across Wyoming one winter and that was plenty for me!

[robcat2075]

A winter in Wyoming is getting into Donner Party stuff. Wyoming is for people who want to get away from people.

 

The Reno or LV suggestion sounds interesting. Las Vegas ought to have some real bargains right now.

 

Since we're sharing real-estate stories...

 

My boyfriend was the original unqualified sub-prime borrower. With no income except $600 a month disability he got someone to sell him this house for $5000 down and a three year mortgage for $50,000 with payments so low it would never pay off any principal. (and he only had the $5000 because his 1962 Cadillac, bought for $1900, insured for $11,000, somehow happened to catch fire at this opportune moment.)

 

With the homestead exemption and his disability exemption the property taxes were about $60 a year.

 

 

Low income housing problem solved, right?

 

No. Four and a half years later, with the three year mortgage a year and a half overdue, no real bank will refinance it.

 

But I had a plan. I had $32K in the bank but needed another $18K to make $50K.

 

I had six credit cards. Three had sent me no-fee cash advance offers and the other three had sent me no-fee balance transfer offers at 4%. I got $6000 advances on each of the first three cards and then transferred those balances to the other three cards.

 

Mortgage paid off, problems solved, right? No, a few months later while we are visiting my dad for Thanksgiving my boyfriend falls down the stairs and gets a fatal head injury. And he's died without a will so his sister, his only legal heir, inherits the house.

 

But she has seen the house and is terrified of it so she sells it to me for $10.

 

So now I actually own the house. Problems solved, right?

 

No, it turns out that, unknown to any of us, there has been a long-standing public nuisance (general appearance and condition problems) complaint filed against the house and after many years of negligence the city now suddenly wants to tear it down.

 

I spring into This Old House Mode and patch up what i can patch up and eventually get the complaint closed. That was about 2003.

 

I've been

for the third time. Paint won't stick to this thing.

 

My biggest problem is the property taxes. This $50K house is now appraised at $195K and I'm paying almost $5000 a year on that.

 

I've thought about getting into a condo that doesn't need me to maintain it but, as Jason noted, the fees are usually outrageous. They're not expensive to buy sometimes, but too expensive to live in.

[largento]

Wow, Robert. That's a roller-coaster story.

 

Not that I've really had the option of buying, but I've long been of the mind that apartment living is a-okay with me. I like that if something goes wrong, it gets fixed for free and no lawn care. My last apartment was a 2-bedroom so that I could have my own studio/office. It was great while it lasted.

[Bruce Del Porte]

A winter in Wyoming is getting into Donner Party stuff

 

Actually, the Donners stalled not far from present day Reno but to your point, winters in Wyoming or anywhere in the rockies can be brutal.

[NancyGormezano]

This $50K house is now appraised at $195K and I'm paying almost $5000 a year on that.

Have you thought about getting a roomie, in combo maybe with someone who would pitch in with maintenance, assuming of course, that the cats would be ok with that? Looks like a giant, wonderful old house. Quite the story!

 

Actually, the Donners stalled not far from present day Reno

 

HAH! I forgot about that...Donner pass is around Truckee at 7000+, whereas Reno is at 4500? They should have stayed put before climbing. They typically only get light dustings of snow on the Nevada side of the Sierras

[Walter Baker]

Take a look at Woodland Park, Colorado; Just west of Colorado Springs. Most awesome place I have ever lived. Beautiful!!!! Winters not quite as tough as Wyoming but can get hard. Air is clean and clear, water sparkles, wild animals, like Elk, Bears, wild boros, huge dear...... I lived there about a year and would go back in a heart beat if I could swing it.

 

Just my 2 cents

[Rodney]

/me pays attention because we are moving back to the US next year.

The plan is Illinois... houses are much like Robert describes where I come from, although many haven't risen that much in value... my family would prefer to live in Colorado again however.

 

My memories of Wyoming are mostly from around Cheyenne and I must say that it'd take quite a bit for me to want to make the move there. I recall the cold from Wyoming drifting down into Colorado. There are miles and miles of miles out there. I always wanted to get up into the Northwest (to visit the park areas) but haven't yet. I know several military members that own houses in the Cheyenne area and they were quite happy there (they rent out their houses while serving overseas).

 

 

Robert... good grief... that is several lifetimes of stories. My sympathies.

BTW - The sound around your house... it sounds like a highway is practically going through your living room.

[robcat2075]

Have you thought about getting a roomie, in combo maybe with someone who would pitch in with maintenance, assuming of course, that the cats would be ok with that?

 

The cats would not be OK with it.

 

You have to really like roommates to have roommates. Especially in a one-kitchen, one-refrigerator house.

[jason1025]

Wyoming is beautiful but will be colder than Maryland in the winter and depending on where you are, will have considerably more snow. Wyoming is huge and has a number of micro climates (mountains and high desert plains) so check out the spot you are going to. I think the biggest culture shock will be how few people and how little civilization there is in Wyoming. There are about half a million people in the entire state spread over about 100,000 square miles. What that means is that trendy restaurants, live national entertainment acts and most shopping opportunities you take for granted in LA will be few and far between. People need to be more very self reliant. There aren't many government services. There isn't cell service over most of the state's area and four wheel drive is life or death rather than a fashion accessory.

 

Life moves at a much slower pace. I moved from Maryland to Colorado that has five million people in about the same space and after a couple of years of adjustment when I go back east, I wonder how I ever lived that way. The air will be clean, the people friendly and you children will have good schools. Class sizes are small because there aren't many kids. If you like the outdoors and empty wide open space, Wyoming is your spot.

 

 

After reading this I feel a little scared. Thanks for the perspective

[jason1025]

Alaska, Nevada, Wyoming, and Florida are the cheap states.

 

There's a reason they're the "cheap" states.

 

Wyoming has some really beautiful areas, but winters can be brutal, like nothing that you would have experienced in Maryland. Probably worse than Detroit. WIND. The beautiful areas (around the Tetons, ski areas, yellowstone, northern) are pricey, upscale, expensive restaurants, food. The ugly areas are truly UGGGGGGGLLLLLEEEEE (southern Wyoming). You better like closed, narrow minded people.

 

Do you work from home? What kind of job would you expect to find?

 

Since you've been an LA boy for so long, I'd say you'd might enjoy Nevada better, around the Reno, Carson City area. It would be less of a shock to what you're use to. Close to Lake Tahoe, the Sierras, more variety of activities than Wyoming, plenty open land, desert beauty, and the summers aren't THAT much hotter (but 100 isn't uncommon - dry heat, better than Florida), winters are mild. Can easily escape to the cool of the Sierras in summer, great skiing close by in winter, while the Nevada valleys stay mild.

 

Housing has also taken a dive in Nevada, so if you can swing it, Gardnerville/Minden is a nice place for families, 45 mins to Reno, 30 mins to South Lake Tahoe. Two of my cousins bought there (precrash): 3+ bedrooms - 1800- 2400 sq ft ($280k-360k), now going for $200K. Beautiful views of surrounding mountains, lots of open space. I'm not sure what kind of employment there is however - most work at local casinos. Try looking on zillow.com for Gardnerville.

 

And of course there is lots of creative work associated with the shows in Las Vegas (6 hours driving? from Reno), also another place that has truly taken a dive economy/housing price wise (the worst in country?). Henderson is nice, lots of activities, out of the tacky congested strip areas, but yikes the summers (april - November) are HOT. Expensive, wonderful top-notch restaurants, world class shopping, but the Las vegas area is a mecca for crime, con artists.

 

Yeah - Colorado, Washington - we're considering them (among other places).

 

 

Good , no great info.

 

I am the inventor and owner of lightdims.com

After inventing LightDims I have been working from home doing mainly that. I sell online and my product is in retail stores like Frys electronics and Micro center.

 

For now it brings in enough money to support my wife and child who do not work. I can sell LightDims from anywhere just need stable internet and good cell phone service.

 

 

You said some interesting things. Now you have me thinking about Nevada. I will have to talk my wife into thinking that is a possibility. Thanks for that info.

[jason1025]

I drove across Wyoming one winter and that was plenty for me!

 

 

lol

[jason1025]

Wow robert that is some story.

 

 

Luckily the sister of your partner did the right thing.

 

On the subject of property taxes. Is it just me or does it feel in practice that you truly don't own land or your house? It just does not make sense to me that you have to $5k a year for ever sometimes going up a little sometimes going down. And when you get hurt or old and you can not pay, they push you out of your house and land. Even though you own it. So I guess you truly don't own it.

 

Death and taxes baby!

 

By the way a friend of mine swears the world is going to end this october around the 28th but as late as jan 1st.

 

He believes it so much a he cashed in everything and is at some island with his wife enjoying the last few months of earths existence as we know it. Im not kidding. He calls it the quickening.

 

 

Where do you live robert?

Maybe you should rent out a room or two in the house. Might be nice to have some company.

[Paul Forwood]

he cashed in everything and is at some island with his wife enjoying the last few months of earths existence as we know it. Im not kidding. He calls it the quickening.

 

 

Sounds like Vern might be reading the same material as your friend except that he has chosen rural Virginia rather than an isl;and..

 

Robert, I agree with what others have said. You should rent out a room or two.

Very handsome property that you have there.

[NancyGormezano]

On the subject of property taxes. Is it just me or does it feel in practice that you truly don't own land or your house? It just does not make sense to me that you have to $5k a year for ever sometimes going up a little sometimes going down. And when you get hurt or old and you can not pay, they push you out of your house and land. Even though you own it. So I guess you truly don't own it.

 

You don't own your house/land. The mortgage company owns your house until you pay off your loan. And in most cases, you don't own/cannot own the mineral rights to your land, even after the loan is paid off.

 

You pay property taxes to support services: police, fire, sewer, water, roads, sidewalks, city, county employee salaries, schools, etc. No taxes, no services.

 

Robert's property taxes sound high to me, compared to my area - Cupertino, Santa Clara county, California. However, we in California do have Prop 13, enacted over 25? years ago, in which the property taxes aren't reassessed until the property is sold, and are limited to increasing only a small percent/year after sale. So since I bought my house over 20 years ago, I am now only paying $4500/year, whereas my neighbor (same age home, same sqft, lot size), bought house 3 years ago ($950k) and is paying over $10,000/yr. Prop 13 was enacted, because of the traditionally skyrocketing increase in property values in California, so that people could stay in their homes.

 

Now with property values dipping, you might check into having your property reassessed to save on taxes.

 

Nevada currently does not have state income taxes. With the decrease in property tax revenues, they may be looking to inact state income tax.

[robcat2075]

Where do you live robert?

Maybe you should rent out a room or two in the house. Might be nice to have some company.

 

Half the problem is there just aren't rent-able rooms. I gutted half the house down to the studs and then my enthusiasm for DIY home remodeling evaporated.

 

The other half is the people who rent "rooms" (rather than apartments) are typically in desperate financial states. They are not reliable sources of rent money.

 

 

I am the inventor and owner of lightdims.com...

For now it brings in enough money to support my wife and child who do not work.

 

 

Congratulations! I'm glad that's a success for you. I have to admit I had doubts.

[jason1025]

Your not the only one who had doubts. But it paid off.

 

But it was well worth the risk. I have 2 retailers now Frys and Microcenter and the online sales. Frys alone purchases a lot every 2 to 3 months. Microcenter is still testing the products with small quantities but once their last test is complete they will order large quantities like Frys.

 

Online sales very somedays when a blogger writes about the product sales jump for a few days. but there are rare occasions where I don't sell any that day. Online sales alone would support me and my family but not allow for any reinvestment into the company.

 

If I was not continuously reinvesting into the company and inventing new products I would actually be living comfortably.

[pixelplucker]

If you don't mind the cold and the job situation isn't critical, Alaska is awesome. Check out the Eagle River area just outside of Anchorage or further south around the Moose River. Few of my friends have moved to Tennessee and love it there, people are nice, temps aren't too extreme and property is reasonable. Much of the mid-west is plagued with meth labs and many of the people are pretty ignorant which may not pose a problem if your an avid gun collector.

 

I'm up in New England and work seems to be pretty stable though most of the people are just plain arrogant, self absorbed and have as much common sense as a bag full of poop.

[jason1025]

My wife says Alaska is just too cold. Had didnt know about the meth lab thing. I will make a note to avoid getto areas.

 

I am going to purchase some airline tickets and travel to Wyoming both Casper and Cheyenne. Colorado both colorado springs and woodland park. and Nevada both Gardnerville/Minden

 

Thanks for the help ill let you know my thoughts after I have visited these places.

[jakerupert]

Hi Jason,

 

Just wondering, why you don`t move to the outskirts of the town, where you do live now.

 

That would be the first natural thing for me to do over here in Germany, when I want to get a cheaper place.

The more far away from the city , the cheaper, but you still have the enviroment you are accustomed to.

 

You folks over there are living in such a big country, that in comparision you moving to Wyoming would be like me moving to Russia.

[Paul Forwood]

What's wrong with Washington and Oregon? Beautiful states.

[jason1025]

Hi Jason,

 

Just wondering, why you don`t move to the outskirts of the town, where you do live now.

 

That would be the first natural thing for me to do over here in Germany, when I want to get a cheaper place.

The more far away from the city , the cheaper, but you still have the enviroment you are accustomed to.

 

You folks over there are living in such a big country, that in comparision you moving to Wyoming would be like me moving to Russia.

 

 

That is an interesting perspective about the Russia comparison. The problem is California the entire state has extremely high taxes. I actually am already living on the outskirts. When I worked in the entertainment industry full time I drove 45 minutes to 1.5 hours to get into Hollywood. Mainly because of traffic not because of distance. Distance was about 35-40 miles away.

 

Homes don't go down in price as dramatically as moving to another state. I understand now that people flock here because of the good weather almost all year round. You can go surfing at the beach and snowboarding all in the same day with a few hours travel time and the water wouldn't be that cold.

 

But in practice I dont do either much now that I am a husband, father, and in my 30's

 

In my 20's I went clubbing 3 nights a week. Snow boarding, surfing, I lived an eventful life style.

 

I even made it to the gym.

 

Now its all about the future of my family. I can not find work in my field after the crash. At least not at the rate I used to make. Only jobs I could find were at a 50% pay cut. The amount of money I was making at 21-24 years old. so I had to invent something to maintain the same lifestyle. My business. LightDims.com does not require the entertainment industry so it does not make sense to live hear anymore.

All I need is internet cell phone and Post office.

[jason1025]

What's wrong with Washington and Oregon? Beautiful states.

 

 

nothing but the goal is to save money. Wyoming, Florida, Nevada, Alaska. Are that.

 

I lived in Florida for 4 years. It was beautiful but I would like to try some place new. I actually would prefer the cold over the heat, especial the humidity.

[Bruce Del Porte]

when you make your Colorado Springs/Woodland Park leg, I will be glad to show you around. Colorado even has business develpoment money for people moving businesses into the state. I'm sure there are strings attached though.

 

When you go to Wyoming, if you are willing to be in the mountains, Jackson Hole is a very cool spot. Far fewer cattlemen and miners.

[Gerry]

Hey Jason, off-topic but I tried that Amazon link in your sig and it's broken, or at least the Amazon page is gone.

[jason1025]

when you make your Colorado Springs/Woodland Park leg, I will be glad to show you around. Colorado even has business develpoment money for people moving businesses into the state. I'm sure there are strings attached though.

 

When you go to Wyoming, if you are willing to be in the mountains, Jackson Hole is a very cool spot. Far fewer cattlemen and miners.

 

 

Hi Bruce

 

Thanks for that offer. I will take you up on that. So you know the woodland park area? What do you think about it? Where do you live in Colorado? I heard Jackson Hole is extremely cold?

[jason1025]

Hey Jason, off-topic but I tried that Amazon link in your sig and it's broken, or at least the Amazon page is gone.

 

 

thats strange it works for me.

 

 

Well any of my Hash friends who purchase my 8 packages of lightdims deal for $19.49 with the green discount will also receive a data DVD of what I am certain is 99% of all video tutorials related to Anything Hash, all organized.

[jason1025]

I'm in minden nv. Checking it out with my wife. Interesting place.kinda like traveling back in time.nm