jakerupert Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hi All, I found that there is a curious (maybe desperate) viral campaign from one of Hashs declining competitors going on at the moment, (the one with the son of the great father) giving away their software really cheap: 10,-$ and 40$ for the pro version, which means a real bargain in comparision. BUT the deal will only be valid, if a certain amount of customers actually buys!!! So maybe that kind of idea would also be a good way to widen the userbase of AM? What do you guys and gals think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimd Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 personally i think the pricing for this great product is a bit low (you can spend more on a night out then for a one year subscription) and anything lower would devalue it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted February 10, 2011 Admin Share Posted February 10, 2011 So maybe that kind of idea would also be a good way to widen the userbase of AM? What do you guys and gals think? If you've ever seen any of the Hash boys at a tradeshow you'd know that to widen the A:M userbase all that is needed is more of those (both Hash guys and shows). Of course there is a point were any market is over saturated and we may have passed that point a few years ago for 3D applications. Anyone who wants one doesn't have to look very hard to track one down. Concerning the offer you reference, I still haven't fully formulated an opinion. It seems a bit odd and desperate. (Note: I wouldn't purchase the $10 hobbled version even with someone else's money... Go $40 Pro! ) Consider it a plugin for A:M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakerupert Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 >personally i think the pricing for this great product is a bit low (you can spend more on a night out then for a one year subscription) and anything lower would devalue it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Forwood Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The rules do seem very wishy washy, with no known target to aim for, but I must confess to biting, (Pro version), with the optimistic hope of a pipeline into several game engines. I'm not giving up my A:M though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakerupert Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 >with the optimistic hope of a pipeline into several game engines. like AM 16 will be capable also.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Forwood Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 A bug fix is in the works, and there is already a workaround according to their forum. --------------- Edit: On further inspection I'm rather disappointed with the amount of frustration shown by people trying to use that app for game development. It is always the Autodesk squeeze at work! As my PayPal account is waiting for funds to be transfered in I still have the option to cancel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted February 10, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted February 10, 2011 I take this as a sign that their sales were down to zero and they felt they had "nothing left to lose". It may be bad for all other 3D apps because all the 3D-curious people who want to get started in 3D will go for this before they go for A:M or XSI or 3DS or Maya or anything else that costs more than $10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainmuffin Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 It may be bad for all other 3D apps because all the 3D-curious people who want to get started in 3D will go for this before they go for A:M or XSI or 3DS or Maya or anything else that costs more than $10. That would be too bad for them then. Even the $40 version still doesn't have any modeling tools. They'd still need to find an app to model with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted February 10, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted February 10, 2011 Are you serious? It doesn't model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainmuffin Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Are you serious? It doesn't model? The website mentions nothing about it. But it's not surprising. It only recently started rendering... Originally it was a character animation plug-in for another program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakerupert Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 it doesn`t model! But there a a few good free modelers around or lowcost ones like AM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bigboote Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I recently bumped into William Eggington on the 'nets'... I think he said he is currently using this $40 app and Wings3D as his modeling app... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted February 10, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted February 10, 2011 Except he must have paid $1195 for it, since no one has actually received it yet for $40. No wonder they're out of customers! $1195 for something that doesn't even model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Except he must have paid $1195 for it, since no one has actually received it yet for $40. No wonder they're out of customers! $1195 for something that doesn't even model. It is quite a good package... the only poly-based stuff that is at least closer than most others to A:Ms animation-set. I just out of curiousity bought a licence... the price is just too tempting... I think it is not a bad idea to do some kind of publicity-work. It just helps to spread the word about the package. Many people, even in the 3d-communities have never heard of A:M... spreading the word is a good idea... So we will see what happens there. See you *Fuchur* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainmuffin Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I think if A:M wanted to try something like this they could say that if enough people in a limited amount of time purchased a web subscription then everyone would get the CD as well. If not, then you still have a year's subscription. Or: For a limited time anyone who purchases a web subscription gets entered into a drawing to receive one of a limited number of CDs (Or training materials, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted February 11, 2011 Admin Share Posted February 11, 2011 Curiouser and curiouser. After stewing on this awhile I get the distinct impression this is a last ditch effort to save the program from terminating or preparing for a sale. They obviously don't want to tip their hand too early and that may account for some of the stranger aspects of the campaign. Firstly and fore-mostly we have to consider these guys didn't just wake up one day with a crazy idea to cut their price in this way. In my estimation, they fully expect this campaign to be successful. The whole deal about a refund if the the goal isn't reached is a hedge against that bet as well as means of getting a higher return on the investment. There is a good reason why the minimum amount cannot be revealed. If we knew that imaginary number it would negatively influence the investment. For a moment let's assume a low end return of 10,000 at $10 and another 10,000 purchases at $40 (I think this is realistic and obtainable). $50K isn't a great deal of money (40 or so Pro users would pay the same thing) but its definitely a better fetch than if they discontinued the product or gave it away. Lets's try one million purchases (perhaps most could care less about the product but sign up anyway) and then average the price to $25. $25 mil would be considerable to owners and operators who weren't even expecting severance pay. Let's do the same things but assume the whole enchilada... $40M. That might cover the original investment and clear the way for a transaction to take place. That's my gut feel but there is more to this campaign. The real value in this campaign may not be the funding raised but rather the measurements being made. It would be wise to accurately gauge the value in a product before going into a sale. Of course the listing of interested parties alone may have a value that far exceeds any funds raised in the campaign. It would also be insurance against anyone attempting to undervalue the company prior to the sale. Other reasons lead me to conclude that management may be about to change. Regardless, there must be some pretty significant market reasons behind the genesis of this campaign. Only time will tell the tale. Added: For Mac users... you may want to consider this offer a bit more carefully. The product seems to be a fairly straight port from it's native Windows platform to Mac and Linux and has some reported issues due to that. I'm not trying to keep anyone from parting with your monies but... a consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 ...or and that is not too obscure too: This is just a marketing offensive to get noticed. The value of the directly earned money is not what they are aiming for. It is the publicity which is very very valueable. Many companies (not only in the 3d-area) are doing extremly expensive campaigns to just let the people know: We are here! Selling a programm at 3000 Dollars doesnt help if you only have 5 costumers because your software is not very well known or noone is willing to pay the money to get your softwareprogramm, even so it may be VERY powerful and wonderful. A:M has a similar problem. People don't expect much from A:M... because of that even 79 Dollars can be too much. There are only a few people who tried and didn't love A:M for at least a few things... It is the first barrier (you have to spend money for it) which is the problem. Of course all of what you said is possible too, but it is not the only option there. See you *Fuchur* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veehoy Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I find this campaign to be a stroke of genius. Now, this is purely guesswork, but I doubt that PMG sold many new licenses during a year, mostly upgrades. They released v5 just last december (w/ a new realtime preview renderer amongst other features) and this went by fairly unoticed. Now, if they sold 10 licences for 599$ or 599 licenses for 10$ they still would end up with the same amount of money. But now you have people buying 1-4 licenses and this is people that would never have bought in before. Basically, money PMG never would have seen if not for this offer. People that never have been tempted enough, never have tried it, never have heard of this app before. And how many licences? 10-20000? If only a small percentage end up buying an upgrade when that time comes they´ll be far better off financially than before. Add to that all the publicity. All in one big swoop. And maybe they have a really great product on their hands only suffering from.... lack of exposure...publicity... small community...who knows? As I haven´t tried it yet I don´t know. But if that bar reaches 100% it is time to find out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakerupert Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 Veehoy, I think you are 100 % right! Hash could do the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted February 12, 2011 Admin Share Posted February 12, 2011 Hash could do the same... Too bad Hash Inc doesn't sell $1K+ software. Perhaps they could run a 1,000,000 subscribers for $1 campaign. The spiraling down continues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fae_alba Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I think Rodney is right. This feels like an effort to build up the business in preparation to seeking a buyout, or seeking some venture capital. With both, shoring up the balance sheet with potential customers is essential. With the list of folks buying in, the owners can point to that and say, look at our market share. Add to that with the potential of recurring revenue of subscriptions, the company becomes very attractive to buyers/investors. Of course none of this works unless you get people talking about it (PR). And just look how much time we've spent doing just that. Now, I'd be careful of suggesting that Hash should do the same thing, for the simple reason that, just as has been suggested here, the perception could be of a business not surviving very well, and thereby the product reputation being diminished. For Hash, they need their own market buzz, coming from users, from studios etc. They need films being made, and shown to the public, and then those films being written about in the trades. If A:M is to be considered a competitor to the bigger more expensive apps, then films need to be produced. We have the Oz films that have already been done, the thread going one Over Here shows there are ways of doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largento Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 This has certainly gotten them publicity. The idea that it has to reach a minimum doesn't seem smart ...unless it's purely a ruse. Whatever good publicity they might get from these low cost sales will be negated and they'll be looking at a firestorm if they turn around and tell these people that they didn't get enough orders. You can say they aren't really losing any money since presumably nearly all of the people who buy it at this discount price were *not* going to buy it at regular price. They could just be desperate for cash. I vaguely remember many, many years ago Bryce releasing a version of their software for free right before an upgrade. Clearly that gets your software on a lot of boxes and presumably they get to collect email addresses and other info from people who at least have an interest in their software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Too bad Hash Inc doesn't sell $1K+ software. What I found very interesting was that in their demo/tutorial for AutoRig, it was briefly mentioned that some feature operated the same as in Animation:Master. Kudos to A:M! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 At my agency we do some charity-work / local work which costs us much money. BUT it although gets us in the papers and helps to gain our visibility for any other potential customer additionally to haveing a good feeling to do such things. It doesnt help us today, but tomorrow – when a marketing manager is looking for a new agency we are still in his mind or at least we are more in his mind than before... I am quite sure that this is a combination of all of the reasons mentioned here, but don't underestimate the need for being in the minds of people. These basic thoughts are although used when selling stuff... they advertise with very low-priced stuff and bring the people to the store so they buy the other normal-priced stuff too. We call that a "Schnupperpreisangebot". See you *Fuchur* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted February 12, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted February 12, 2011 I'm not sure why Veehoy is dropping in at all since he's a very loud anti-A:M person over on CGTalk and made it clear he hates anything connected with A:M. We call that a "Schnupperpreisangebot". We call that a "loss leader". If the store advertises something low priced that they don't really have for sale to get people in the store to buy something higher priced instead, then that's "bait and switch" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veehoy Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 If their goal isn´t reached they´ll refund your money, this is something they have stated from day one so why should there be a firestorm? And Robcat: I have made two posts in one thread over at CGtalk (do a search on my name) that you could perceive as negative against AM, though one was directed at your attitude, the other one was answering a question in regards to AMs export capabilities (in a quite objective manner if you ask me). And this makes me a hater in your book? Makes me wonder how you have the time to do 3D because your world must be filled with them. But it does however explain why you prefer to stay in your little corner of the world........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I'm not sure why Veehoy is dropping in at all since he's a very loud anti-A:M person over on CGTalk and made it clear he hates anything connected with A:M. We call that a "Schnupperpreisangebot". We call that a "loss leader". If the store advertises something low priced that they don't really have for sale to get people in the store to buy something higher priced instead, then that's "bait and switch" That is the very negative kind of "loss leader"-offer. I am talking about an product which is very low-priced but will be sold (in a normal kind of way with an equal amount of units as any normal priced product). The "loss" there is sacrified to get people in the store and let them buy other stuff. The combined calculation is than even or positive BUT people now know what the store is offering and that the prices are low there. The other kind of offer is forbidden by law here in Germany. You need to have at least enough units in the store for a few days (dont know exactly how many) of normal selling AND it can't be sold lower than the purchase price of the store owner. See you *Fuchur* PS: Just to mention it: I am not for buying other software and I love A:M and think it is very powerful and useful. I am just objective about what could be the reason for such an offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I have made two posts in one thread over at CGtalk (do a search on my name) that you could perceive as negative against AM, though one was directed at your attitude, the other one was answering a question in regards to AMs export capabilities (in a quite objective manner if you ask me). And this makes me a hater in your book? Makes me wonder how you have the time to do 3D because your world must be filled with them. But it does however explain why you prefer to stay in your little corner of the world........... This isn't helpful or welcome here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veehoy Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Well, this is the thread Robcat is basing his judgement on.....it´s only 3 pages so I guess you can judge for yourselves...... http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=912500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Well, this is the thread Robcat is basing his judgement on.....it´s only 3 pages so I guess you can judge for yourselves...... http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=912500 Fun to read... Nobody of them has tried A:M for 10 years but they all know exactly what they are talking about... Prejudgment all over. Fanbot vs Fanbot... That is what I really hate about the 3d community (not only others, A:M's one has that too. Everybody has to proove that their software is better than the other. You could do the same thread with Blender or Lightwave and it would be EXACTLY the same. Someone says that his software is so much better than the mentioned one and than everybody beats at everybody. Where is the art in that? Where is the fun in that? Why is it so hard to believe that every software can do most stuff? A:M can, Blender can, XSI can... Choose your tool and don't judge others for choosing theirs. A:M is great, no matter what fanbots of other software say... we love it and if other dont than they dont... 3d communities have ot be much more tolerant if you ask me. And I am talking about ALL of them. I learned several in production environments and I choose A:M over others if I can. Fast, easy and fun. Other software is good too, but there is a reason I am still here... See you *Fuchur* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted February 13, 2011 Admin Share Posted February 13, 2011 The spiraling down continues... When I typed this I was mainly thinking of the nature of commerce represented by discounting software by 95%. It's rather hard to maintain the previously assigned value of a product when they do this. There is also the aspect of topics such as this inevitably degenerating as everyone sees opportunity to add in personal agendas. Keep it civil and note we have already brushed past the forum rules against running comparisons with competition. This was probably inevitable given the topic but steering clear of the standard pitfalls could (in theory) allow the discussion to continue. This activity does relate to A:M but is not about A:M. It is about some rather curious activities going on within the 3D/CG industry. Consider this before posting here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakerupert Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Hi Rodney, I apreciate it very much, that you let this thread run. Its a good thing in my opinion, that important developments and events in the 3D world like this can be discussed here also. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Hi Rodney, I apreciate it very much, that you let this thread run. Its a good thing in my opinion, that important developments and events in the 3D world like this can be discussed here also. Thank you Me too, thanks Rodney! See you *Fuchur* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted February 13, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted February 13, 2011 My "attitude" is that A:M has a beta out, A:M works great and that a guy who's a government-subsidized mo-cap editor really has no business giving sales advice under the pretense of being a CG "Leader". Given the chance, Veehoy showed that being an anti-A:M troll was what he wanted to be most. That's what he chose out of all the possibilities. That figures greatly into whether any advice or analysis he gives here is something I'm going to regard as coming from someone who wants the program to succeed or for any of us to succeed with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veehoy Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Your attitude only proved them right in whatever predjudice they might have against AM and its userbase. And you did it by being judgemental and prejudiced yourselves. So, in my three posts we have one pointing out the obvious for you, one answering someones question about AMs export capabilities.....and, oh yeah, one pointing out what I personally think is the best artwork done in AM.... and this makes me an anti-AM troll? If AMs future is dependant on the likes of you...well, I think I just heard Ralph passing by...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Could we please return to a more civil way of talking with eachother? See you *Fuchur* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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