Lothario the Lover Boy

[dblhelix]

just seeing this thread updated is a kick

- bouncy! does he splay his toes in sidekicks? he's so cute!

the moment when he stops (shuffle) and she dances is already hair raising, that's all the story you need here,

that they meet. he's quite a dominating presence, so initial reaction is; the story is about him. what if she picks him up - bit of eyegames - and she asks him to dance - he could be shy - then dance, make a moment of him reaching his hand to her and end with them embracing (more or less comically)

[Fuchur]

Hi Nancy, very nice animation...

 

you may want to add a bit of motion to the tail of you lover-lion so... it looks a bit static because it doesn't bend in itself.

But I really love the hairmotion and the renderingquality... looks great!

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[NancyGormezano]

I know this is a test. My only suggestion is that you add Motion Blur or it will continue to look like stop motion photography.

 

I like stop-mo look! I was hoping that when I am done with 1st pass animation for the whole dance (about 20-25 secs more to go), I will attempt to smooth the motion out some first. I have way toooo many keys currently, which might account for it looking jerkier than it should.

 

I have considered trying motion blur, and will try it in AE to see how it works with this dance. I suspect the whole thing would be too much of a blur, as there is just tooooo much motion.

 

I like the stop mo look. Have you tried this at 12fps?

I haven't tryed, but have considered it. At some point, I will try a render with step 2, just to see how I like it even more stop-mo looking. For now I will continue on 24fps, as I'm working with a roto at 24 fps. And I'm having a hard enough time coordinating with it.

 

you may want to add a bit of motion to the tail of you lover-lion

I am delaying animating the tail until I'm done animating the whole dance at least 1st pass. I haven't decided yet if I want to do some dynamic constraint thing or do by hand. I currently have the tail setup for dynamic constraints (turned OFF), but my current settings make it tooo twitchy, distracting.

 

I am thinking I will probably animate tail by hand, and will give the tail "more personality", and a better resting shape. Right now, I just try to move it out of the way. I am also toying with making the tail a "prop" for flirting with Ida Ada Idunno. But with all his turning about, it could end up looking like a whip.

 

If I do animate tail by hand for the majority, I will need some advice on approach of getting nice flowing curves for it.

 

I also haven't yet animated his whiskers, nor ears. Both also have dynamic constraints...I might do some manual animation for them as well. And I will probably have to do some "collision detection" with the hair - either automatic, or by hand. I'm ignoring it for now.

 

Any bits animated with dynamic constraints, will be done after I've coordinated the main animation a bit more with final music (which is still unknown)

 

so initial reaction is; the story is about him. what if she picks him up - bit of eyegames - and she asks him to dance - he could be shy - then dance, make a moment of him reaching his hand to her and end with them embracing (more or less comically)

 

Nice! Thanks for the seed! I already plan to have them end up embracing at the end of the dance.

 

Thanks JimD and Mouseman (and all) for your comments.

[John Bigboote]

Wow!

[NancyGormezano]

Testing new music! "I'll Get Over You", the opening track from Myron LeRoy's CD "Nice Rack"! Myron sent me this 3? years ago. I had forgotten all about it until yesterday. It works! He is graciously letting me use it.

 

So far I intend to use just the opening instrumental part, but ya never can tell. I might extend this animation to include the vocal part as well. I could use the lip sync, and acting practice, and it gives me a basis for a "story". However, this would extend animation from about 1.5 minutes to 3. We'll see.

 

Also, shortened Lotharios tail & changed shape. I think looks much better proportionally. I turned on the dynamic constraints to test (for tail, ears, whiskers), and rendered at 12 fps (half size). I think 12fps might work. Dynamic constraints work well for whiskers and ears, & looks good for the tail in general. BUT:

 

I don't know how to handle getting rid of pass thrus for the tail. It's tricky, because the channels aren't available any more for the bones that have dynamic constraints (after simulating). After simulating, there are now new dynamic channels along with the regular channels for rotaton. But I can't get ahold of either one to modify. Is this new, or was it always like that?

 

I haven't tryed motion blur yet.

 

This will probably be the last post for awhile, until I make more progress on the dance. Y'all must be getting tired of this sequence by now.

shortail12fpssoundH2640000_0624.mov

[johnl3d]

this is definitely looking great wish I had the talent and time

[dblhelix]

it's Uma Thurman and John Travolta!

= i think the music really works. don't know if you like the association.

 

So far I intend to use just the opening instrumental part, but ya never can tell.

thinking out loud; the sound architecture could use the song pre-dance as a song playing in the background, mixed low together with restaurant athmosphere, chatter. when dance starts you could fade "the entire restaurant" away and bring up the intro, separating them into "their own world" = bring them closer together.

 

However, this would extend animation from about 1.5 minutes to 3. We'll see.

a prelude to the dance wouldn't have to be labour intensive animation-wise. the more you build up between them before they get to da shimmy, the more it will heighten the dance.

 

Also, shortened Lotharios tail & changed shape. I think looks much better proportionally.

this goes two ways! you're right about proportionality of course.

the shortness i like, but when the fluff-puff was smaller it emphasized Johhh... Lothario's girth, adding to the general disproportionality; in him; between him and Uma. it also added to the funny and made him just a little bit better dancer. but maybe it's just me.

 

I don't know how to handle getting rid of pass thrus for the tail.

go pro & fake it with a stunt tail and composite. you probably want to do a pure a:m masterpiece, but what you're doing is so unique already, if you can win (time&)energy for animation, take a shortcut and think nothing of it.

 

This will probably be the last post for awhile, until I make more progress on the dance. Y'all must be getting tired of this sequence by now.

you have got to be kidding? ok hands off the browser and name your price?

[Bruce Del Porte]

Great stuff. Imaginative characters and fun dancing!

 

Any thoughts of rigging the big guy's belly and throwing his weight around? Maybe try with dynamic constraints?

[NancyGormezano]

this is definitely looking great wish I had the talent and time

Thanks John! The world will rejoice when you finally get enough time to play with A:M.

Great stuff. Imaginative characters and fun dancing!

Any thoughts of rigging the big guy's belly and throwing his weight around? Maybe try with dynamic constraints?

Thanks Bruce! Yes. I have thought of it & might try eventually. His belly screams out for some jiggling. Would require some reweighting, as well as rig mods. Not major. But I'm sure to flounder around.

 

I'm struggling with tail currently and dynamic constraints, and pass thrus. BUT - I think I've got that figured out as to how to "sorta" work with it. I have a control bone that I can tweak after simulating, rather than tweaking the actual bones that get the automatic channels generated from the dynamic constraints. The ears, whiskers, hair are also dynamic. They each have their pass-thru problems to deal with as well.

 

the shortness i like, but when the fluff-puff was smaller it emphasized Johhh... Lothario's girth, adding to the general disproportionality; in him; between him and Uma. it also added to the funny

 

Hmmm...I only shortened the tail length, did not think that I increased the size of fluff puff...perhaps it's an illusion, or maybe it happened inadvertently? I do think it might look better/funnier smaller.

 

Thanks again dblhelix, for more story seeds. The song lyrics (if I use that part) suggests some other ideas as well.

 

you probably want to do a pure a:m... if you can win (time&)energy for animation, take a shortcut and think nothing of it.

 

Pure? Moi? My mantra is: "Do whatever works easiest & fastest, even if it takes you twice as long to figure out what that is, and would have been easier if you had done it the right way from the beginning"

[dblhelix]

Hmmm...I only shortened the tail length, did not think that I increased the size of fluff puff...perhaps it's an illusion, or maybe it happened inadvertently? I do think it might look better/funnier smaller.

this was interesting but could simply be due to the length of the tail - it would then look thinner when further away from the camera! the inet seems a drag, congested at the moment, not encouraging film downloading so sticking with that quite plausible statement.

 

"Do whatever works easiest & fastest, even if it takes you twice as long to figure out what that is, and would have been easier if you had done it the right way from the beginning"

so you noticed the parenthesis around "time&"... right there with you. it's all about the process, isn't it

[paradymx]

That dance scene looks great. I hope you don't "smooth" it out too much. I love the stop motion feel that it has.

[HomeSlice]

Wow Nancy. Looks great so far. I also like the stop-motion look.

[dblhelix]

just brainstorming, bubbling; planning a group scene in my project with an exhaustive array of possibilities and suddenly i get a flash from your film. that is, the version i have in my head of your intro-to-be-?. i'll just plant it here, for whatever it's worth.

 

if you plan to have them "meet"

once you've established the environment, IF there are props, people etc

make a "wall" with volumetric lights - two from each side

render one really large image of that

make it a decal put it on a wall prop

you can separate the two "into their own world" early on if

you trolley closer lowering camera while tilting up and

simultaneously sinking the "environment" a lot (slowly) and the wall a bit less

faking a larger movement than what you actually are doing

keeping the subject in an interesting angle = not too low

use wall behind them both, different sides of it = change in light pattern

[NancyGormezano]

Thanks dbl for the suggestion, not sure I'm able to visualize what you are describing. I've read it over and over and over, many times. I've still not decided on set, props, story, costume, camera angles, special effects, etc, etc.

 

Still working on first pass to the dance part and I only have about 140 frames (5.8 secs) to go (of the 1179 frames=49.125 secs, dance only).

 

Slow going, as it seems like I can do about 2 secs/day, but since I am in smelling distance of the finish, I suspect I'll speed up today & manana.

[wedgeeguy]

I'm not sure why I haven't been following this thread lately but it is just plain FANTASTIC! Love the look, the dancing, and the music ... Great job Nancy!

 

p.s. I think we may need to nickname you "Iron Toes" seeing the earlier photos of you.

[pixelplucker]

just brainstorming, bubbling; planning a group scene in my project with an exhaustive array of possibilities and suddenly i get a flash from your film. that is, the version i have in my head of your intro-to-be-?. i'll just plant it here, for whatever it's worth.

 

if you plan to have them "meet"

once you've established the environment, IF there are props, people etc

make a "wall" with volumetric lights - two from each side

render one really large image of that

make it a decal put it on a wall prop

you can separate the two "into their own world" early on if

you trolley closer lowering camera while tilting up and

simultaneously sinking the "environment" a lot (slowly) and the wall a bit less

faking a larger movement than what you actually are doing

keeping the subject in an interesting angle = not too low

use wall behind them both, different sides of it = change in light pattern

 

 

Like an exaggerated zoom? Background zooms quicker than the foreground?

[dblhelix]

Like an exaggerated zoom? Background zooms quicker than the foreground?

so close to making a visual, but since Nancy's undecided on the surroundings anywho, just words:

my description is of a move that separates characters from their surroundings.

what i should have said was, while camera sinks and tilts up to character,

people&props&decaled wall also sink out of sight

leaving only character in frame.

 

the lowering of everything speeds up process & helps keep a more ordinary angle on character.

having (light) shapes decal on wall gives 3D with low render time;

and a big wall (=larger than intended frame) can naturally be used as two walls. (light) shapes help define left&right, maintaining the illusion you're cutting from one side of room to the opposite side.

that's how basic that was!

(no wonder they've invented storyboards...)

[NancyGormezano]

Finished first pass for dance routine, started playing with floor, preliminary set ideas.

 

Still to do:

set, props, other creatures?

better sync with music, decide on how long, how much, story.

more interesting camera

add face expressions

fix tail pass thrus (ugh...will be last on list)

 

12 fps for now - I think I will go to 24 ... maybe...

 

(7 secs/frame at 480 x 270, 3 pass)

 

I'm not sure why I haven't been following this thread lately but it is just plain FANTASTIC! Love the look, the dancing, and the music ... Great job Nancy!

 

p.s. I think we may need to nickname you "Iron Toes" seeing the earlier photos of you

.

 

Thanks Bruce!

 

Iron Toes? Yes indeedy. The toe shoes probably looked stiff because, most likely they were a new pair for the recital, and hadn't been broken in yet.

12fpstest1179Illgetoveryouh264MED.mov

[dblhelix]

tease!

wonderful surprise, the stairs! light patterns on floor seem to stem from the stars in the "sky", romantic and funny!

 

i was mostly thinking of lighting of movement this time; there's a difference in 3D experience between the previous rehearsing lights and these stage lights, mainly in the very beginning and then again when Lothario stops when she takes a few turns on her own.

in real stage environment, a row of side lights on either side bring out depth and limb movement the best.

but maybe you were just getting to those tests; must voice thunder for your camera placement as the choice for advancing movement! just the perfect height.

(curious to see 24fps version)

[HomeSlice]

Looking good Nancy!

[MJL]

You make the music look good, Nancy. Lothario is dancing like he has definitely gotten over "somebody"

[NancyGormezano]

i was mostly thinking of lighting of movement this time; there's a difference in 3D experience between the previous rehearsing lights and these stage lights, mainly in the very beginning and then again when Lothario stops when she takes a few turns on her own.

in real stage environment, a row of side lights on either side bring out depth and limb movement the best.

but maybe you were just getting to those tests;

 

Hoooo Hoooo...Good Call! I had thought it looked darker than previous render, but thought it might have been an illusion. All I had changed lighting wise, was to darken the Klieg shadows from 60% to 80% dark. Somehow that also changed the diffuse illumination intensity??? Did not expect that. I will go back to 60% dark shadows. Thanks for spotting that, which prompted me to investigate further!

 

I also keep running into this problem of making a change and then having the render screw up the properties of my background dome. I rendered 1 frame first with 60% dark shadows - all ok. Changed the darkness to 80% - rerendered - crap results. The dome properties get changed (from flat shaded to NOT flat shaded, and the dome position gets corrupted). I have noticed this before in other situations. Seems to be related to baked dynamics, and/or turning on hair. Seems I have to bake dynamics. Shut down. Reopen, turn on hair from camera view, go to side view, back to camera, then render AND do nothing else. It works most of the time - but makes me shiver each time.

 

The light patterns on the floor are really decaled. Magic. No lights involved. I only have 1 klieg (directly overhead, never moves, nor changes) and Global Ambiance/Ambience = 100%, plus FakeAO.

 

Thanks Holmes, Myron.

[Shelton]

Nancy, that looks great, also convinced me about fakeAO.

 

Steve

[Rodney]

I was looking for movies to put into the cue for playing at the top of the forum and had to search this one out. I'm not sure it'll work in the size/format it's in currently but I wanted to say...

 

This test in particular really captivated me. 'Mesmerized' may be the more appropriate word.

I say this rather carefully and cautiously... it may very well be my favorite animation test ever presented in the forum... and I'm not exactly sure why that is. When I saw it I had to keep watching it over and over again.

 

So... not yet playing at the top of the forum... but still great animation anyway... these two kids with stars in their eyes dancing their hearts out to a lively beat:

 

Lothario the Lover Boy and Ida - Dancing with the Stars - On Checkerboard Squares*

 

...and of course there are the latter versions with alternate music and enhanced environment like this one.

 

 

 

Nancy, you've done something great with these characters.

 

 

*Not Nancy's title. I just didn't know what to type there.

[mouseman]

I love this thread. I hope you are still working on it in stealth, Nancy. It's really good.

[NancyGormezano]

I love this thread. I hope you are still working on it in stealth, Nancy. It's really good.

 

Thanks Chris. Unfortunately I ran into conflicts when trying to tie test sound tracks with a "story". I didn't want to end up with just a dance clip, and I had story ideas that were difficult to blend with existing sound track(s) that I had been trying out.

 

So I put it aside to let it simmer, and I just recently started to look at it again with fresh eyes.

 

I am motivated to finish it. Mainly because it's stopping me from starting anything new!

 

EDIT:

 

Well Lookee here. I did finally finish this, in a serendipitishly-doo-dah-day way

 

Here's the

Edited December 14, 2011 by NancyGormezano