Animation Contest

[Ilidrake]

So the last contest wasn't a raging success but it was still fun to see all the entrants. And I know there are more people out there animating. So I want to do another contest. This time instead of choosing a theme I have listed 8 items for the community to vote on. Although 8 doesn't really count

 

So I will run this poll until next Sunday and after that I will have the results and if we have a majority ruling I'll lay down some competition rules

[robcat2075]

So the last contest wasn't a raging success but it was still fun to see all the entrants.

 

For me, and probably some others, it came up rather unexpectedly while I was in the middle of something else and I couldn't devote adequate time to it. The "pirate" created a lot of model complications beyond the task of animating. That made it hard to jump into.

[largento]

I was in the position of thinking that the pirates theme would make folks think I had an unfair advantage.

[thefreshestever]

i think it was a little bit too open for an animation contest...it was more like a short-movie contest. it also required modeling characters and props, or using characters and props made by others, which made it a bit difficult for people to participate. i think more people would have jumped in on it if there was a clear animation task which could have been done within a day... the simpler and less time-consuming, the more people will get involved.

[markw]

As noted by Robert above, time and suitable assets also made it not possible for me as well this time round.

But if I may here, I do have some other thoughts on the subject.

 

If its to be more about the animation then, as I see it, all an entrant should have to do is open a Chor, drop assets into it and start animating.

 

To make it that simple, in general I would keep the subject choice to just verbs and/or adjectives.

That way it would be completely non dependent on needing to have or make any specifically themed assets or characters.

If entrants felt they did not have the time or perhaps the skills necessary to make and rig their own assets they could just use the default ones that come with A:M without felling they would be at any disadvantage and so could get animating straightaway.

 

If however something more specifically themed was required for a given competition then there could also be a "box" as it were of assets on the competition page that folks could rummage through. Which again would mean the entrant could concentrate solely on the animating.

[higginsdj]

Guys, it's an animation contest, not a modelling contest, its not a lighting contest, it's not a rigging contest, its not an effects contest. Don't make it any harder than it has to be!

 

If you look at the 11 second club, a lot of animation is completed with stock characters. Its the animation that brings them to life and exposes their character - not what they look like. It would have been just as easy to grab Thom, rig him and animate him!

 

I think we want to go beyond the basics Just pick a theme and let people animate to that - long or short depends on the animator, complex or simple depends on the animator. I like sound bites - but that's very much like the 11 second club. No reason we can't have our own of course.

 

Cheers

[Ilidrake]

Guys, it's an animation contest, not a modelling contest, its not a lighting contest, it's not a rigging contest, its not an effects contest. Don't make it any harder than it has to be!

 

If you look at the 11 second club, a lot of animation is completed with stock characters. Its the animation that brings them to life and exposes their character - not what they look like. It would have been just as easy to grab Thom, rig him and animate him!

 

I think we want to go beyond the basics Just pick a theme and let people animate to that - long or short depends on the animator, complex or simple depends on the animator. I like sound bites - but that's very much like the 11 second club. No reason we can't have our own of course.

 

Cheers

I agree. Its about animating, nothing more, nothing less. I can see sound bite is winning thus far. Question with that is do we pick a sound clip or let the animator choose their own?

[thefreshestever]

Guys, it's an animation contest, not a modelling contest, its not a lighting contest, it's not a rigging contest, its not an effects contest. Don't make it any harder than it has to be!

 

If you look at the 11 second club, a lot of animation is completed with stock characters. Its the animation that brings them to life and exposes their character - not what they look like. It would have been just as easy to grab Thom, rig him and animate him!

 

I think we want to go beyond the basics Just pick a theme and let people animate to that - long or short depends on the animator, complex or simple depends on the animator. I like sound bites - but that's very much like the 11 second club. No reason we can't have our own of course.

 

Cheers

I agree. Its about animating, nothing more, nothing less. I can see sound bite is winning thus far. Question with that is do we pick a sound clip or let the animator choose their own?

 

climbing over a wall is still in the race, too if it´s gonna be a sound clip it should be the same for everyone. it´s hard to judge animation if you have different sound bites, you will automatically include the sound bite into your judgement, if you want it or not.

[Vertexspline]

I think sebastian has a good point on the sound file needing to be same. but otherwise I think its fun idea ...and as David said above --its an animation contest ----so make it easy on yourself --heck its hard enough just doing the animation ...smiles

[Ilidrake]

Well the voting poll will remain open until next sunday so we've plenty of time to speak about the merits

[thekamps]

I chose "Sports Event" because everything on the list could fall under that category

[Dpendleton77]

I would like to try the wall climbing one. It would be a challenge for me as this would be my first time animating something other than a sign or bouncing ball.

[robcat2075]

If you're itching to do dialog, the 11 second club has that situation ready to go for you every month. I don't think we need to duplicate that challenge. Dialog is the last thing learning animators should be trying. It literally is the last thing they have you do at animation school, after you ostensibly have character body mechanics under control.

 

There is a danger of having too frequent, too complex forum events. People have to drop whatever personal project they are doing to get involved and the forum community can get worn out by it.

 

The ultimate example of that, of course, would be a movie project like TWO which wore a lot of people out.

 

Something small and easy to get involved in might be good. About ten years ago there was a weekly contest called "The animation showdown" on another now-defunct forum. You got a brief premise like "Get down from there" and then you had four hours to animate something for that. You couldn't spend more than four hours on it, so it didn't consume too much of your time. You can see my entries here. I got a lot out of that.

 

The prizes could be something low-stakes. I've got a lot of animation and VFX book and magazines. I could donate one to each winner. Maybe some other people have closets they want to clean out too.

 

Something simple like that, that dealt with basic character animation problems might be a good contest for us. Maybe every other week, rather than every week. The crowd could vote on the winner.

[steve392]

Thats a good idea Robert ,something sortof spontanius ,just go for it

[Ilidrake]

I like the idea Robcat! A good four hour animation piece would be nice and easy. Something everyone can jump on. I like the idea of themes as well. That's what this new one is really. 7 little pieces that can be knocked out quickly. Members of the forum vote on one and the next week we start entering them. I also have a few things in the closet I can donate as prizes. Although coming in first would be reward enough for me...and the learning experience.

[higginsdj]

Yeah - but who's 4 hrs? Not everyone is online at the same time or even in the same timezone! I would try for a competition once a month and keep the 'effort' expectation on something to about 4 hrs effort (or maybe a bit longer since it would be over a period of a month). If people want to do more effor (or less) then they can.

 

Of course this does not have to be limited to just animation as such. You can always have a simple animation set up and then have a lighting competition or a camera shots and moves competition. Hell the animation could be as simple as a bouncing ball and see how effectively/creatively people can light it/shoot it!

 

Cheers

[Rodney]

Short animation definitely should be the focus of an A:M contest.

The name of the software is Animation:Master after all.

 

I will say however that in the future (perhaps 2014 timeframe) I'm hoping to see a few rigging contests.

What that would look like... hmmm.... I'm not entirely sure.

Perhaps a fairly simple object could be offered and everyone would be invited to rig it and make it 'work'.

 

I suppose the same can be said for Texturing and Lighting but I think Rigging is especially one of those areas that folks tend to be afraid to tackle until it's seen for what it really is and appreciated for what even the simplest of rigging can accomplish for the animator.

 

There is nothing like a good contest to get the information to sink in fully through practice, repetition and (as someone said) just doing it!

 

Edit: I see David has expressed a similar sentiment.

[Vertexspline]

I think a monthly or three week contest would be very beneficial and helpful to lots of folks especially if the themes are changed up and diverse so participants can gain ground over a number of topics. There is no better way to learn than doing. Well it might be the only way. Smiles .

 

I am not sure maybe twice a month might be pushing things -it really depends on the contest . Like if the contest was make three cool materials well maybe two weeks is good. But if its animate two characters break dancing maybe two years is better. Lol. (kidding but you get the idea.)

[robcat2075]

Yeah - but who's 4 hrs? Not everyone is online at the same time or even in the same timezone!

 

Here's how it worked so anyone in any timezone could participate on any day of the week they wanted and everyone still got just four hours.

 

-Each new topic wasn't revealed on the forum, it was just announced that a new topic was up and would be up for a week.

 

-When you were ready to do your four hours you would email to a moderator's account that had an autoresponder message set up. It would send you back the topic and since it's email it, of course, records when you were sent the topic.

 

-you had four hours from when you got the topic to animate, render and email back your entry. That email records when you got done.

 

-there was a filesize limit (1 MB) for the entries which had to be in Quicktime form. Lighting and texturing were not part of the contest so render times could be minimal.

 

-When the one week window to enter closed, the mod would make a quick check that the entries were indeed returned in four hours, then post them to the forum and set up a poll so anyone and everyone could vote on their favorite. That poll would be open for a few days, then a winner crowned.

 

 

Was it possible to cheat and get more than four hours? Yes, there were a few times I thought that happened but once those people realized they were cheating to win a contest with no prize they drifted off. None of those entries i thought were suspiciously elaborate ever won anyway.

[robcat2075]

I am not sure maybe twice a month might be pushing things -it really depends on the contest . Like if the contest was make three cool materials well maybe two weeks is good. But if its animate two characters break dancing maybe two years is better. Lol. (kidding but you get the idea.)

 

 

I think some non-animation topics might cool too. I recall we had a few four hour modeling challenges and I got a somewhat less elaborate version of this "game controller" done for that.

 

A materials topic might be fun too.

 

Or rigging. I'm not sure what a four hour rigging topic would be but maybe there are some.

[Ilidrake]

Great, great feedback

 

I can see where all these things could be interesting. And helpful as heck. The rigging especially. Could be a simple model that needs to be rigged to be used in the next contest by all participants. Just a thought...

[thekamps]

I remember those from long ago and I did do a few animations and models.

my old "shiver" entry

shiver.avi

The problem I had was...

1. I work slow.

2. my schedule rarely had 4 hours straight/free to do them.

[robcat2075]

I remember those from long ago and I did do a few animations and models.

my old "shiver" entry

shiver.avi

 

I think I remember that one. It seems like just yesterday we were doing that, doesn't it?

[Vertexspline]

smiles ----thekamps pretty cool shivering.

 

I see now how it (contests) would work.....well four hours seems a pretty decent amount of time depending on the project. What would be kind of nice is a sort of schedule perhaps of contest ie june its animating something, July its rigging , August its lighting etc ...so that we could prepare or tweak our skills or even learn them before the contest --right now if there was a rigging contest for example I would need 4 days ...smiles

[robcat2075]

When I first happened upon that Animation Showdown contest I was was just floored at seeing people getting anything done in four hours. I had spent months on things like walk cycles and never got very far. And there they were getting something done in just four hours.

[thekamps]

I remember those from long ago and I did do a few animations and models.

my old "shiver" entry

shiver.avi

 

I think I remember that one. It seems like just yesterday we were doing that, doesn't it?

 

Yes it does...but since you had the dates listed on your entries, I was able to find my entries on an old back-up CD.

 

Thanks for the memories

[Ilidrake]

Climbing over a wall seems to be winning

[Bruce Del Porte]

I was one of those that got caught unable to enter because of being in the middle of another project. I thought the contest was well run and got some good results. Bravo to the winners!

 

I always enjoyed the Mini-Movie contests, if these become semi-regular, I'll save a slot to enter.

[Ilidrake]

It's Sunday and the poll is over!!! Climbing over a wall seems to be the winner so I will be writing up the rules and making it official. Keep your eyes peeled while I work out the details.

[Ilidrake]

Just a thought. I'm not really sure what prizes I should offer. I'm open to idea... I still have that copy of the Animator's Survival Guide available....

[robcat2075]

What's the time frame on this contest?

[Ilidrake]

I was thinking a week. Just quick enough to animate something but not so long people loose interest. That will keep things simple too. Still brain storming on prizes. What about a video crit from you Rob? I always enjoy having you review my work. What if the winner gets a video feedback from you?

[thefreshestever]

I was thinking a week. Just quick enough to animate something but not so long people loose interest. That will keep things simple too. Still brain storming on prizes. What about a video crit from you Rob? I always enjoy having you review my work. What if the winner gets a video feedback from you?

 

what if rob wins?

[thekamps]

A prize would be nice but I don't think it is really necessary.

 

Going on vacation for a few weeks so I'll miss this one. Planning to try to animate a climb anyway when I get back.

[robcat2075]

What about a video crit from you Rob?

 

I was probably gong to do something on everyone's.

[Ilidrake]

Okay. So we do this one just for the fun of it.

[robcat2075]

I have some back issues of Cinefex. The winner could pick one of those.

[Ilidrake]

That sounds great Robcat

 

Okay. So I'll make a new topic for this with the rules and what not. Good luck everyone.

[robcat2075]

I also have numerous music CDs that could be chosen from

[robcat2075]

[Ilidrake]

Would it be easier if we all had one model to use? If this is the case, which model would be appropriate? I'm just trying to streamline things for later contest.

[Vertexspline]

Lloyd,

I do not think that a prize really is an issue ---heck we could just add a little forum badge or something "forum contest winner" --- I think most folks who do this just want to have a little fun and practice on a particular idea --more a push to go get something done and finished perhaps as well......so I would not worry on that issue.

 

As far as model I think keeping it more uniform makes it leveling the playing field more even as it were but then makes the results less individualistic but for contest maybe best way.

[robcat2075]

Let people use whatever model they want and are familiar with. If you have your own model it's more fun. If the official character is in a rig someone is not familar with, that's another reason for them not to bother entering.

 

I think we should do the contest in the form of the Animation Showdown I mentioned above. What are the reasons to not do that?

[Ilidrake]

A show down... Could you explain the concept completely and how we can do it on this forum?

[robcat2075]

How it works...

 

Yeah - but who's 4 hrs? Not everyone is online at the same time or even in the same timezone!

 

Here's how it worked so anyone in any timezone could participate on any day of the week they wanted and everyone still got just four hours.

 

-Each new topic wasn't revealed on the forum, it was just announced that a new topic was up and would be up for a week.

 

-When you were ready to do your four hours you would email to a moderator's account that had an autoresponder message set up. It would send you back the topic and since it's email it, of course, records when you were sent the topic.

 

-you had four hours from when you got the topic to animate, render and email back your entry. That email records when you got done.

 

-there was a filesize limit (1 MB) for the entries which had to be in Quicktime form. Lighting and texturing were not part of the contest so render times could be minimal.

 

-When the one week window to enter closed, the mod would make a quick check that the entries were indeed returned in four hours, then post them to the forum and set up a poll so anyone and everyone could vote on their favorite. That poll would be open for a few days, then a winner crowned.

 

 

I'd make the email address for finished entries different than the one to get the topic, just so the entry email doesn't generate another auto response.

 

The advantage of this is you can do it anytime in the week you want and because you also know no one else is spending the whole week on it you don't feel disadvantaged because you can't spend a week on it.

[robcat2075]

You might want to get someone who doesn't want to enter the contest to run the email thing. Someone who can dream up simple topics and surprise us all.

[Bruce Del Porte]

Why make it so complex for so little animation?

 

Why not give the animators the full week. Like the last contest, those that have the time and the inspiration can do their best in the allotted time. Those with constraints, can do what they can. Even assuming a half hour to shaded render and post, how many seconds of animation can get accomplished in four hours? Everything will look like we are doing raw dailies. Why not give the animators the chance to do their best.

 

Let the animators post their own work in an entry thread up to the announced end time and date. Voting can start as soon as entry is closed. Those that post early don't gain an advantage because the voting hasn't started and the animation won't get any better once it is posted. If you are creating a new e-mail account, why not vote by e-mail, one vote per person (e-mail account). Votes that look like ballot stuffing can be DQed, Ilidrake's decision is final.

 

The contest would proceed something like:

 

1. Ilidrake gives the go, the duration would be one week from his posting's time/date stamp.

2. Animators post their entries in a "Entries" thread up to the time limit

3. Ilidrake calls time and posts the voting e-mail address. Voting begins

4. Ilidrake calls time to end the voting and announces the winners once he has tabulated the results.

 

The advantage of simplicity is that no additional people are in the critical path to get the animators work posted and set up for voting. There are minimal chances of the contest stalling because someone in the critical path has conflicting priorities. Allowing animators the full week increases the chances of a a surprise gem or two.

[higginsdj]

I agree, 4 hours straight may work for some people but not for me - I animate when and where I can, 30 minutes here or an hour there. I do not recall having spent more than 1.5-2 hrs straight working on anything - I can't concentrate that long.

 

Cheers

[robcat2075]

It's not complex for the participants.

 

You get the topic. You animate. You send it in. You're done. How is that complicated?

 

If you want to spend less than four hours, you certainly can do that and brag about it.

 

We just had a contest where people could spend any amount of time they wanted and only three people entered. Making the time frame more flexible didn't get more entries, did it?

 

This is not about trying to do major productions, this is about simple gestures the people can try and then see how their effort compared with other similar efforts on the same topic.

 

It's not possible to craft a contest that everyone will love. Let's try this and even if it doesn't attract a lot of people it won't be any more a failure than what we've tried already.

[Bruce Del Porte]

Gee Robert, once again you are hijacking someone else's project and shouting down anyone's but your own voice. Too bad in your haste to offer a snarky response, you didn't bother to actually read my post. I didn't say it was too complex for the animators. I suggested that Ilidrake could make it easier on himself by having the animators post their own work and that voting by email could relieve Jason or anyone else having to manage the video files and voting sequence.

 

I don't consider the last contest as a failure. Three or four entries is about par for animation contests dating back to the Mini-Movie contests. A full week to animate isn't going to produce a major production, nor will it lengthen the contest time.

 

Let me close Robert by saying that I offered my suggestions in good faith. I suppose forums like this eventually become dominated by the most shrill voices until the trolls find they are only talking to themselves. You managed to drive me out of RW after I made similar good faith suggestions. You have since edited your post, I would have been embarrassed too. You got it 100% your way and you got squat!