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Hash, Inc. - Animation:Master

Exercise 12: Lip Poses


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As I couldn't find anywhere to post 11.5, I thought I'd play with lip poses on it.

 

Yeah. My apologies for that.

As I haven't ran through the exercise myself I haven't put up the exercise for it.

 

Exercises 11.5 and 20 deserve to have a little more attention.

 

Nice work modeling your son.

What's he think of being created in 3D?

 

Is there any limit on how many CPs you can move in a pose?

 

I'm not aware of any limit but I'm sure it's roughly the same as in any action.

You'll probably run out of RAM before you'll run out of CPs you can move.

 

 

P.S. Thanks for the link to Deskpins. Looks interesting.

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[attachmentid=22226]

 

Name: Joe Gamblin (Achilles Desire)

 

Exercise Completed: Exercise 12

 

Date Completed: Nov. 13, 2006

 

Instructor: None / Just the book

 

Remarks/Suggestions for Improvement: I kept having problems with the magnet mode, but other than that I thought this was a fairly easy one after the last few.

 

Also, I notice that many people also added the 'O' phenome. What all poses are we meant to do? Is it just enough to learn how it works, or the whole Preston bunch?

 

It might be cool if in future editions this was combined with exercise 7 (Can You Say That?) so that you can see the poses in action. In fact, I would love to see all of the exercises combined so that you create a character, bone him, then animate him walking past a knight playing a game of baseball in a field of flowers while he tells you (with the lip poses you made) about a secret behind a door he can't open . . . and then he's gunned down by a FW-190. Not really, but you get the point. With the tons of creativity and hard work that everyone shows in the tutorials forum alone shows that this is something within the realm of possibilty. Plus, I think that it would really give a better impression of the entire process and when you're finished you would have your first short film. Better that than a bunch of unrelated tidbits, IMHO.

 

Also, I would really like to have a nice test dummy model with which to practice that didn't have as many control points. While Eddie, the Knight, the Rabbit and all are nice, many times I want to try out lots of different takes, and when using the more dense meshes it can take forever to fine tune them.

 

If no one else is interested, this is a project I'd love to tackle . . . once I get my own certificate that is. :P

post-7177-1163418904_thumb.jpg

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If no one else is interested, this is a project I'd love to tackle . . . once I get my own certificate that is.

 

Joe,

I think there is interest but it takes a champion to get such a project completed.

If you are interested by all means please feel free to leave your mark on these exercises.

The examples you contribute will inspire others.

 

Concerning themed TaoA:M this is something I'd like to see too.

I see examples that would fit nicely into TaoA:M every day.

Finding the time to add them into the exercises is another thing of course.

Keeping the exercises relavant and accessible is important too.

 

Rest assured, the best of the best examples will always plus up the exercises and make them more enjoyable for everyone. Even the little touches can be treasures to those just starting out.

 

I'd love to see themed ToaA:M sets available that would take you from start to finish through the TaoA:M exercises; with the end goal being a finished short film once all aspects were collected and compiled. That'd be a beautiful thing to be sure.

 

Most people struggle to find the time to complete the exercises as they are.

I'm not sure when such ideas for augmenting or improving TaoA:M might move out of the idea stage toward reality. Still, where there is interest and such ideas thats a start! :)

 

Thanks for the feedback Joe.

Very much appreciated.

 

Rodney

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IMHO, I prefer them not themed. Sometimes I have to do the exercise several (many) times to get it "right", and I am very glad to get on to the next exercise which is totally different, using different characters.

 

I have finished the modelling section, and, like Al, I am putting what I have learned to use. So I hope to have a WIP thread where I can put up my model, then go on to the next sections of TaoA:M, to learn how to rig, materialize, etc. This is my themed TaoA:M, and it is of my own choosing, and I'm using everything I've learned so far.

 

One of the difficulties is choosing a theme that everyone likes. At least, as it is, you can spend less time on one you don't like. Anything with FWhatevers would leave me cold, but i'm sure lots of people like them.

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One of the difficulties is choosing a theme that everyone likes. At least, as it is, you can spend less time on one you don't like. Anything with FWhatevers would leave me cold, but i'm sure lots of people like them.

 

Themed exercises would make the process more complex. That is fact.

I initially rebelled against the current crop of exercises. "Who the heck want's to model a giraffe" says I, "I wanna model a dragon!!!". Little did I really know about anything.

 

 

I've really grown to appreciate the nice mix of diverse elements the exercises bring together. Very nice variety and some really inspired moments/lessons. Yeah you don't model a dragon but in many cases you'd never model a dragon for someone else anyway. Want to model a dragon... go right ahead! Bet ya can't model a convincing giraffe though!

 

 

Still, I do like the idea of themed exercises.

If we could get enough of them all associated with a common 'core of competencies' it'd be a thing of beauty.

Keeping them updated would be a royal pain though. :(

 

I think it was Jonathan Darkly that suggested an old Castle theme; build a castle, populate it and create some adventures for the characters that inhabit it. This would probably work better as a commercial product. Such a thing would come with some elements pre-built but you could tailor it to make your own adventures.

 

Meanwhile... back in reality.

Yeah, we've got it good. Good enough to dream of even greater things. ;)

Not all dreams are required to come true. Some just fade as we awake.

Then we move on.

 

Thanks for the reality check Caroline!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Exercise 12: Lip Poses

 

Date of Completion November 26, 2006

 

Name: Lori Hiatt

 

Used tutorial and Manual

 

Struggled with getting my ooo pose to pucker at the lips and not sink/fold. Tried pulling it into the Z axis from the side but didn't get what I wanted.

 

Anyway here's Eddie with a secret.

Eddie_Secret.mov

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Lori,

Eddy isn't the most optimized character for this exercise but he's one of the more simple ones.

 

One thing to consider when using dopesheets for lipsync is to go into the timeline and adjust the interpolation on the keyframes. I'm not sure I have a specific technique to champion but you can experiment. For instance, at the basic level you could Peak (P Key) the channels to give crisp/sharp closer to the mouth movements. Then while listening to the audio go back and Smooth (O Key) the keyframes that look awkward. An even better method is to adjust the keyframes individually without Peaking but running through it with Peaking is at least a starting place.

 

With a little adjustment in the channel you can be very precise in creating subtlety in your Lip Poses.

You are bound to run into the limitations of the models and the phoneme poses first.

You can then go back in and tweak those Lip Poses as you wish.

 

Try the Lip Poses with another model and see if that helps.

Alternatively you could just copy part of a model and work with that.

 

Just a few suggestions for further exploration.

 

Keep on TaoA:Ming! :)

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Lori,

 

One thing to consider when using dopesheets for lipsync is to go into the timeline and adjust the interpolation on the keyframes. I'm not sure I have a specific technique to champion but you can experiment. For instance, at the basic level you could Peak (P Key) the channels to give crisp/sharp closer to the mouth movements. Then while listening to the audio go back and Smooth (O Key) the keyframes that look awkward. An even better method is to adjust the keyframes individually without Peaking but running through it with Peaking is at least a starting place.

 

With a little adjustment in the channel you can be very precise in creating subtlety in your Lip Poses.

You are bound to run into the limitations of the models and the phoneme poses first.

You can then go back in and tweak those Lip Poses as you wish.

 

 

Keep on TaoA:Ming! :)

Thanks Rodney,

 

I haven't tried peaking and smoothing. I definately need to get this right as lip synching will be the main part of my project (someday). By peaking are you referring to the curve of the splines. Is there more info on how to use peaking and smoothing? Is there a better model you can recommend for me to play with?

 

I did play with jaw opening/closing adding keys because I felt I made the mouth too open therefore there was too much distance to cover between movements.

 

Lori

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Lori,

I added the second sentence ("Alternatively you could just copy part of a model and work with that") because after I suggested using another model I actually couldn't think of a good one to experiment with.

Many of the models shared these days have basic phonemes set up.

This is why I'd suggest copying the mesh of another model and working with that.

If you are already working on models of your own you can experiment there but, to be honest, one of the best means of experimentation is with really crude mouth shapes. The simpler the better. Master those and then move on to more difficult experiments (or those more closely related to your own projects).

 

If you've already worked with the Peaking and the Smoothing then you are ready for the next stage (probably already worked with that too). You want to dig in and work with the Bias Handles and get some proper ease in and ease out of the Lip Poses.

 

One thing also about lip sync is that we as humans tend to blend and blur our words which often makes some poses unneccessary. If its not because we are lazy it can generally be attributed to slang and differences in dialect.

 

One trick people often use is to place two fingers on your lips while reciting the words. Note the movement and work with that. You'll often find you can not only live with a lot less poses but it fits the dialogue much better.

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Lori,

 

If you've already worked with the Peaking and the Smoothing then you are ready for the next stage (probably already worked with that too). You want to dig in and work with the Bias Handles and get some proper ease in and ease out of the Lip Poses.

 

One thing also about lip sync is that we as humans tend to blend and blur our words which often makes some poses unneccessary. If its not because we are lazy it can generally be attributed to slang and differences in dialect.

 

One trick people often use is to place two fingers on your lips while reciting the words. Note the movement and work with that. You'll often find you can not only live with a lot less poses but it fits the dialogue much better.

Hi Rodney.

 

I'm getting the lingo now. I was thinking of peaking and smoothing in animation not in modeling. I didn't use the peaking and smoothing functions in modeling or the bias handles. Didn't even occur to me. I'll try again but this time not open the mouth so wide. I think that will help too.

 

Thanks,

Lori

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Name: Ralf Kampp

Exercise Completed: #12 (lip poses)

Date Completed: March 10, 2007

 

Remarks:

* I used the model I created in exercise 11.5 (my 6 year old daughter) and did some lip sync on her.

* The placement of the control points around the mouth seems to be a bit bad because moving the mouth causes creases. But I am satisfied with my first try!

* My daughter does not really have such a broad frog mouth! ;)

* The sentence she says is German and means: "Tomorrow is my birthday and we're gonna make a bicycle tour." (she will be 6 tomorrow)

lipsync.mov

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Ralf,

I don't think your attachment... attached.

There is a file of some kind there but I don't think its the movie.

I re-attached the file, this time as Quicktime movie instead of mpeg. Hope this works better.

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She's cute - was she thrilled to see herself?

What Rodney said about the smile.

Happy birthday, Ralf's daughter!

Well, she was, hmmm, curious and interested. She was a bit disappointed that I cut off her lip-synced sentence (girls talk and talk and talk :-) You are right, she definitely needs a smile!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Name: Big E

Exercise Completed: #12 (lip poses)

Date Completed: March 23, 2007

 

Comments: None really was actually very simple. After the "A" an "O". I went an get a mirror an did other letters an lip poses to practice..

post-10007-1174717219_thumb.jpg

post-10007-1174717228_thumb.jpg

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I was kind of suprised how simple and fast this lesson was. I was basically able to follow along with the video and (almost) do it at the same speed.

 

The Magnet Mode is interesting. I think I could have really used that in the previous "Face" lesson. Of course, I'm assuming it works the same way in the modeling window on an uncompleted and unrigged model as it did in this lesson on a completed and rigged model. Can anyone confirm or deny that for me?

 

Pics are below; A I is first followed by O. Seems a poor choice of angles. With the images minimized it's hard to tell which is which. If anyone wants additional proof I will provide but I'm satisfied I got this one. Onward to lucky 13!

lesson12lipposesAI0.jpg

lesson12lipposesO0.jpg

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