Thank,s Robert,yea it was a prop I triede in v17 that was a no go so I triede a model but it just imported 1 spline very strange.I can import it into v16 so will do as you sugest and import that into v17 to use the snap to survice tool . by the by in v17 its taking a looong time to go from wireframe to shaded mode and takes a long time to bring up the action window. the screen goes white for a few seconds then it loads. thank,s for your reply