Come Home, Martin.

[brucegregory]

Martin:

 

I'm glad you got to go to Africa and gain all that perspective. I'm also glad your product, Animation Master, is still standing, after all these years.

 

You had it right, right from the start - and it's time we got down to the business of really demonstrating the superiority of your technology.

 

I've been around. You've been around. We've both had the opportunity to see polygons stretched to their limits. And there are many.

 

 

But, momentum is a necessary thing. Hype, even, is helpful.

 

 

And, a word or two from you would be most welcome. I know, years of programming and dealing with people may have alienated you - as it has me. But, the troops can be mustered and new things can come to pass.

 

I wager that simplicity is at the bottom of success - and this is what embodies your technology. Let's prove it. Let's demonstrate it. Let's showcase it.

 

Hey, Martin - Come Home!

 

 

Greg Smith

[Rodney]

That's very kind of you Bruce.

Is this your own personal hope or should this be an official 'Come Home Martin' forum campaign?

 

Of course we don't have spend all of our time waiting.

We can (and should) anticipate him dropping into the forum... perhaps tomorrow or even later today.

And if he did come back to the forum* what would we ask him and what might he say?

 

Perhaps we could launch an email... or an onslaught of communication... demonstrating our support and appreciation for his many years of labor and leadership in computer animation. We could visit his personal forum (accessible via his website) where we could communicate with him directly, peruse his varied interests and tell him all the things we need to say.

 

What do we do in the interim while we wait?

 

 

 

*I assume in the context of your post that the terms 'home' and 'forum' are synonymous because you are addressing your message to Martin here.

[brucegregory]

Rodney:

 

It was always better when Martin had a regular presence here. Yes start any kind of campaign you can think of - to get Martin back to front and center. It's time. He's well overdue.

 

Nobody that "knows" will really ever rest until we see this thing through to the end. I've paid so many dues and know, for certain, that Martin's invention is the key to successful entertainment - which the world is totally lacking, at present.

 

I'll elaborate, later.

 

But, please, Martin - come on home.

 

 

Greg Smith

[Rodney]

Rodney:

 

It was always better when Martin had a regular presence here. Yes start any kind of campaign you can think of - to get Martin back to front and center. It's time. He's well overdue.

 

Nobody that "knows" will really ever rest until we see this thing through to the end. I've paid so many dues and know, for certain, that Martin's invention is the key to successful entertainment - which the world is totally lacking, at present.

 

I'll elaborate, later.

 

But, please, Martin - come on home.

 

 

Greg Smith

 

Greg,

I share your sentiment but...

 

Your expressed desire seems to stem from a faulty premise; that Martin Hash is not at home and operating in accordance with his plan today.

So the best thing we can do here (with or without Martin) is address the issues that you need to have addressed. Then Martin can read and react to those at his leisure.

 

There are obviously some areas of concern that you feel would be better served by Martin being here and interacting with us on a daily basis as he did in the past.

 

I'll elaborate, later.

 

Please do. It's your topic to elaborate.

[brucegregory]

Rodney:

 

No, I think Martin must be here, in person, for AM to go forward in the profitable way that it should go.

 

He's probably tired. So am I. He's probably feeling his age. So am I.

 

He has an intellectual perspective that is not often expressed in this forum.

 

I, for one, want to hear it.

 

He thought about a lot of the current CG "issues" before they were issues - he is a forward thinker. I want to hear more of his forward thinking.

 

Honestly, I don't think most AM users ever "got it" in the way Martin "got it".

 

Only Martin can verify this.

 

I have no specific problems with AM. I like it - always have. I did spend, however, a number of years, maybe a decade - trying to convince myself that working with polygons, from the start, was the proper course to consider and use. I no longer think so. Especially for certain media types.

 

I WILL elaborate later.

 

 

Greg Smith

[Rodney]

Thanks for the clarification Greg. You don't have to say much to convince me about the utility of splines. I'm certainly in alignment with you there. Of course many would prefer it otherwise and that is where they've preferred to spend their time innovating. Perhaps in 2012 the pendulum will swing back our way.

 

I don't know about daily powwows with Martin... the man is busy living life... but perhaps we can convince Martin to drop in on occasion. There is a slim prospect of the weekly chat session returning next year (in the summer time frame) and if optimal, perhaps Martin could be engaged there.

[brucegregory]

Thanks for the clarification Greg. You don't have to say much to convince me about the utility of splines. I'm certainly in alignment with you there. Of course many would prefer it otherwise and that is where they've preferred to spend their time innovating. Perhaps in 2012 the pendulum will swing back our way.

 

I don't know about daily powwows with Martin... the man is busy living life... but perhaps we can convince Martin to drop in on occasion. There is a slim prospect of the weekly chat session returning next year (in the summer time frame) and if optimal, perhaps Martin could be engaged there.

 

 

Really? He's that busy? I hope this is not true. Not resting on his laurels, I hope.

 

This would mean that either he has given up hope or he is satisfied with the success of AM, as it is.

 

I can't believe that of Martin.

 

 

Greg Smith

[Rodney]

Really? He's that busy? I hope this is not true. Not resting on his laurels, I hope.

 

This would mean that either he has given up hope or he is satisfied with the success of AM, as it is.

 

I can't believe that of Martin.

 

I'm not sure where you want to take this so I'm just trying to better understand your perspective.

 

I consider Martin a realist.

...and (at least in this instance) you an extremist. With A:M Users this is often the case.

 

But I believe you err in assuming that Martin is an extremist and living at one of those two extremes - he's either given up hope or (completely) satisfied - Do you really think such is the case?

 

This is not about Martin as much as what we tend to project on him. Perhaps that is what might make him a little uncomfortable here? (Note: I don't assume he is uncomfortable here)

 

You lack faith my friend.

'Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.'

 

 

Edit: I just read your other post on CG and Entertainment and in that I believe we agree.

[brucegregory]

Martin, Martin! We want Martin!

 

Look, Rodney, it was Martin and his initial philosophy that inspired and motivate me. He has been sorely absent, and, forgive me, his presence has been replaced by yours.

 

I do realize that you fall into the category of "Administrator - and for good reason. But that does not replace my, or others desire to hear the perspective, the current perspective of the one and only inventor of this application, Martin Hash.

 

Either he has a current perspective regarding his application in the vast and expanding field of CG software, and he does want to express that - or he doesn't.

 

We are strong enough to hear whether he has an opinion or not. I, for one, want to hear his opinion on Animation Master and its position in today's market - and what he would like to do to expand it. That is, assuming he does want to expand it.

 

If he's through with worrying about it - I'd also like to know that. If he's passed the baton to his heirs - I'd like to know that, too. Then, I could address my questions to them.

 

 

Greg Smith

[Darkwing]

I'm not completely up on all that happened between Martin and everyone, I was only just coming on and wasn't even active when he was last here, but this is kind of what I see at least from an outsider's point of view. There seems to be in the above post(s) a segregation of groups here (Martin, the users, the developers (steffen I think)). Now from what I understand, Martin wanted to take AM in the direction of turning Hash Inc into a movie production company of sorts and others wanted to keep AM as a program for those who couldn't afford something in the 3500 dollar range. Stuff happened, Martin decided to take sabbatical and now Steffen develops AM on his own(?) and we make our little projects.

 

So when you say "for AM to go forward in the profitable way you should" via "Martin's Vision," I sort of take this to mean that AM and it's community will be no good unless Martin comes back and turns all of this into a movie production company and we get left by the wayside. So from an outside point of view, I see the breathtaking and stunning projects created by our "masters" while Martin's been gone, I've seen independent members win awards, gain recognition, beat records, beat their own personal goals and above all else, feel involved.

 

Now this isn't to say anything against Martin or him "coming back" or anything, I can't judge, I don't know the guy, but I think it's a fallacy to essentially say "things are no good unless Martin comes and fixes them."

 

My real problem, is that if Steffen is the only one working on developing AM at this point of time (I've heard he gets no pay too(?)) then I would be more concerned with people helping him to develop the software further, to meet our needs instead of trying to turn this into a movie production company which would take the focus away from all of us little guys, which I thought was AM's intended purpose.

 

Like I said, I'm not entirely savvy with events and people, but I'd say we're doing pretty damn fine on our own and don't need any grand master to swoop down from the heavens and "fix" how things are now. Not to say it wouldn't be cool to have the original creator pop in from time to time or something, I'm just saying that we've been trucking along for at least 3 years in our own direction and taking that away from us would make a lot of people very unhappy.

[TheSpleen]

Yeah and Martin needs to see my stuff! He left right after I started.

[robcat2075]

I'm glad that Martin didn't just turn the lights out just because he was tired of it and that he found some people to keep the plates in the air. I do worry about Steffen being the only developer, if he got a bad schnitzel some day that would be the end of it but he's doing great work. Moving A:M to 64 bit was a huge accomplishment.

 

Ultimately, Martin will do what and when he wants to and we are unlikely to sway him either way.

 

I've tried either way and they don't work.

[brucegregory]

No bad schnitzels for Martin!

 

I'm glad that his heirs have continued with his work - but Martin, really, you should be here. Carry on where you left off. Please.

 

If you have become disillusioned or convinced, after visiting Africa, that AM is among the most trivial of things - we deserve to know - we made your trip there possible.

 

We, at least, deserve to know your views.

 

Thin, plastic bag pollution may currently be on your mind, but, hey - I've spent hundreds of dollars to let you see them. I'm glad you went there instead of me.

 

And, I'm glad you chronicled your journey there. It was eye opening. It was an awakening.

 

But, here we are again - back at the computer trying to do something useful - you are much needed in this department.

 

Greg Smith

[Rodney]

Greg,

Are you talking to Martin or us?

If Martin... you are lost.

 

Look, Rodney, it was Martin and his initial philosophy that inspired and motivate me. He has been sorely absent

 

You are right to be inspired by Martin's philosophy. What can I say... A:M is a great product and Martin's philosophy is everywhere inside it.

 

his presence has been replaced by yours.

 

Well, that's kind of how these forum things work.

In a perfect world I'd be operating exclusively behind the scenes but for reasons of his own, Martin entrusted the forum to me while away. If he ever asks, I'll just as quickly give it back.

 

In all matters related to A:M I defer to Martin. In the absence of further instructions rely on Jason and others with the good sense to keep me on the path Martin set me on. Friends of Martin are always welcome but may also want to register at: http://www.martinhash.com (The forum URL is http://www.martinhash.com/forums/)

 

Zealots on the other hand... (let me be clear)

I do not encourage public zealotry and suggest avoiding A:M zealots who have just returned from figuring it all out. The ones that know deep down in their heart that if only Martin would listen to them everything would work out are not to be trusted. Zealots make for staunch supporter but they tend to be just as fierce in their opposition after all of the euphoria wears off. No thanks. We'll make you minister of A:M Zealotry (You want a forum for that? We could probably use it so just ask.) A fair warning though: Innocent people are the ones most likely to become disillusioned and more apt to have their feelings hurt and in the end everyone finds themselves worse than when they started out. And supposedly all they wanted to do in the first place was create cool computer animation.

[brucegregory]

Rodney:

 

You mean I'm lost because Martin isn't coming here, anymore - but occupied with his political pursuits? That's fine, but I wasn't aware of it. I thought he still had an interest in his business.

 

I've been away. I'm not a zealot. I haven't even started using the software again, yet.

 

You sound cautionary, but I can't imagine why. Don't worry, I won't sway anyone's opinions. I had simply hoped to raise the spectre of Martin and hear from him again.

 

If he is gone for good, well - que sara sara.

 

Greg Smith

[Rodney]

Greg,

 

I mean... 'lost' as in... 'not in a good place to write personal letters to him'.

This is especially true if, as you state, he is not here.

Hence the links to where he is more likely to be.

 

An additional problem is that I am having difficulty seeing from your perspective. That's why I'm having a dialogue with you here... to better understand that perspective.

 

From my perspective Martin is A:M.

 

I've been away. I'm not a zealot. I haven't even started using the software again, yet.

 

This has been problematic over the years... people that don't use A:M but desirous of guiding the future of A:M.

Am I wrong in thinking this is bassackwards to the way it should be?

 

In the forum we want to encourage people to use A:M as it is firstly and foremostly and then (as able) invest their time and effort (and what the heck...at least $79 every year) in support of their future needs. Which by the way, also just happens to determine what A:M will be.

 

I'm all for A:M Zealotry as long as it can be occasionally corralled into it's cage.

 

Your understanding and experience in and around the industry is important to us.

I look forward to hearing more of your take on Martin's philosophy.

[MJL]

For quite some time I've been gonna write a song with a long title: "I Know You Think You Know Me But The Person That You Think You Know Ain't Me."

 

When I do, I think I'll dedicate it to Martin. Animation Master is his baby. That's why it has his name on it. The couple of times I had the pleasure of meeting him, (I happen to live fairly close by) he shared with me bits and pieces of the story of A:M and his journey with it. Our perception of him as the "Grand Poobah", our expectations and projections of who we thought or expected him to be could have easily have made his presence on the forum more trouble than it was worth.

 

Life happens, things change, people get tired in their crusades and move on. I have no idea why Martin has made the choice to absent himself from this forum, but it IS his decision to make. The bigger a deal we make about his being gone, the tougher we make it for him to just stop by and say hello.

 

I hope you're doing things that make you smile, Martin. Let me know when you want to resume your recording career.

[Rodney]

"I Know You Think You Know Me But The Person That You Think You Know Ain't Me."

 

I want to hear that song Myron!

Heck, I just want to hear you say the title out loud.

[Vertexspline]

I guess everyone would love a pop visit here from Martin ---but for personal reasons he has decided to keep away. You have to respect his desires in this case. Kind of reminds me of working in a super large corporation and the CEO might make one visit to the little people once a year or two.....Its their choice and most likely feel have more important things to do or just do not see the point doing it. I personally do not need Martin to say hello as much as hope development continues in a focused and steady fashion. Smiles

 

But if Martin wanted to drop in here again that certainly would be a great day !!

[jakerupert]

Greg, frankly spoken I don`t understand, why you keep crying for Martin.

 

That guy obviously has abandoned his baby, because he has lost faith, that it can compete

in the 3D ratrace with the big polygon-players.

A:M is a very nice niche product, and we can be very content with it as long as we have Steffen

and Martin doesn`t make decisions like selling to Autodesk or closeing down his shop, what`s not likely.

 

He can live without us and we are doing very good without him.

 

So please leave it that way.

 

That yearning for a strong man and leadership is dishonorable!

[itsjustme]

I really don't understand, Greg. I decided to read all of your previous posts (54 if you include the 10 you posted today) and it seems like this is a recurring theme...why?

[Rodney]

Ouch. And people wonder why old topics had a way of disappearing...

...and now the other foot drops and (if his post is to be taken seriouslyand not a little tongue in cheek) Jost reveals his feelings.

 

Martin transforms from The Abandoner to Vile Betrayer. Get a grip people!

As Martin use to say, "How'd we get from there to here?"

 

The rule by which this topic would most like disappear is the one where: You enter a guy's living room, take a crap on his carpet and then have the nerve to tell him he is out of toilet paper. (That'd be in the rule book page 5343)

 

 

Rewinding the tape just a little...

I had planned to balance my previous commentary by suggesting Greg isn't just some whacko from far far away land. He is what I would classify as a 'true believer'... which is a good thing... not unlike the term 'friend'. Greg was (and remains) a valued forum member and his past contributions include some of the first deep looks into spline based modeling which he freely shared with us here in the forum in the form of informative videos.

 

He's someone who recognizes the superiority of splines and that is a valuable thing.

His message to Martin (which I assume is heartfelt) is refreshing and can be expected from those who were use to seeing him when he was administrating the forum on a daily basis. Who doesn't miss Martin? (Rhetorical Question)

[Fuchur]

Who doesn't miss Martin? (Rhetorical Question)

 

We all admire what Martin did and he was a man with great ideas.

But it is not like he is the only one this way. He is a loss, but we learned for several years now to live without him getting to much involved here.

Sometimes I think he had to leave... like a motherbird has to push her children over the edge to let them learn how to fly...

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[Vertexspline]

Fuchur's view seems very realistic and constructive.

 

I have been away while so never really "missed" Martin. I have only been back one month and you know something----It does not feel like its "Home alone" and we are abandoned ------more a feeling like Dad gave us the keys to his sports car and said ""here you go --have fun with it but take care of it like I did. "

 

As long as we have this sports car and still can get gas (some development) -----seems like a joy ride to me!

[KenH]

Perhaps he was boiled in a big pot in the jungle! I dibs the train.

 

There's nothing more predictable than Martin's unpredictability.

[John Bigboote]

And we can all be grateful that he still 'green-lights' our forum.

[Rodney]

And we can all be grateful that he still 'green-lights' our forum.

 

Hey, no fair using common sense!

[mouseman]

So Martin started a company. The company had some success. A lot went right. Some things didn't, but after some number of years (30?) he had some other things he wanted to do. I'm fine with that. That's how life and companies work.

 

I miss his perspectives. I miss the old developers and support people and seeing them show up on the forums. But one important thing is that there comes a time when you have to let go of something you've built to see if it has a life of its own. I worked at a number of companies through my years that have either gone public or been sold or the founders have stepped down from day-to-day operations, and the question was always what the old owners would do, can we survive without them. There are always people that wished it was like it used to be.

 

I think it's important to note that Martin did leave the operation in capable hands. I have been very pleased with everything both Jason and Steffen have done, they are to be commended! They are both smart, sincere, honest, hard-working people. (I've read a couple of people state their assumption that Steffen was volunteering his time, but I'd be extremely surprised to find that the company didn't explicitly make it worth his time; the reality is that companies pretty much don't base their business plan on charity from others.) It is very important to note: The A:M software has never worked better! It is so much more reliable than even a couple of years ago. On the forums, Rodney has done a fantastic job keeping things working (including through earthquake, tsunami, and flooding in Japan), as have a bunch of the other long-time forum members.

 

As Rodney said, if Martin decides to come back - whether to just stick his head in the door and say hi or to make some contribution - I don't know of anyone that would not welcome him with open arms. But if not, we have to allow him to live his life, and we have to go on living ours.

 

From my personal view, we have something really good, right here, right now. Longing for "the old days" may have some value in very short spurts to reflect on whether we can improve our direction, but the best thing you can do in life is to value what you already have and then build on top of it. The old Mahatma Gandhi quote applies: "Be the change you want to see in the world."; don't expect someone else to do it.

 

The A:M software does nearly everything I could imagine wanting it to do, and is getting better all the time. The forum are some of the most talented and generous people I've met anywhere. The only limitation is us. Life is good here if you just look around.

[Vertexspline]

"The A:M software does nearly everything I could imagine wanting it to do, and is getting better all the time. The forum are some of the most talented and generous people I've met anywhere. The only limitation is us. Life is good here if you just look around." Chris

 

Ditto. Indeed!

[brucegregory]

Perhaps we should start a separate section in the forum called, "Letters to Martin". Like putting a message in a bottle on the wide-ranging sea.

 

I totally understand his desire to be absent - and even, to let it all go.

 

If his absence can be paralleled to anything in recent history - I'd liken it to the absence of Steve Jobs and how that relates to Apple.

 

The company always did better when he was active and present. Controversy is healthy, (which both Steve Jobs and Martin Hash provided), and, I fear, both companies may be the worse for their absence.

 

 

Greg Smith

[brucegregory]

Now, on second thought, and after seeing Martin's website, I have to wonder how he will be able to maintain all of those expensive hobbies without a constant return on his (initial) investment.

 

Martin's Website

 

Unless he has also successfully invested his returns from AM, elsewhere.

 

I have no idea where to find sales data for AM, but, I would think Martin may find it valuable to present himself, once again - if for nothing else than to keep sales a rollin' in.

 

Steve Jobs will have increased difficulty in doing this for his brainchild.

 

 

Greg Smith

[NancyGormezano]

"Ok. Now this is entertaining", she says chuckling to herself. We don't need Martin, as I believe we can crown Greg the Official Replacement for the Grand Stirer of Pots.

 

Nothing lasts forever.

 

Including Netflix - Drat that Reed Hastings and his arrogant blundering!... and I was going to be so, so rich...sigh...

[John Bigboote]

I think he gives all his income from A:M to the kid who mows his lawn...

[Rodney]

I'm glad I read Nancy and Matt's post before hitting the reply button.

They've said it much better than me.

 

It is understandable that the uninitiated would think Martin was rolling in money from A:M. He SHOULD be.

Life doesn't always work out that way.

 

Rather than be disappointed by this reality check I'll just suggest everyone, "Keep creating great computer animation with A:M!" That is why Martin created A:M.

[Ilidrake]

...listening with a smile

[brucegregory]

And, to add to Rodney's sentiment, "Better Do It Quick!"

 

 

Greg Smith

[Rodney]

And, to add to Rodney's sentiment, "Better Do It Quick!"

 

Quick for me is twenty years... I'm that speedy.

 

I won't read into what you are trying to say.

 

I see no great need to rush anything. Certainly, pace yourself and make a little progress every day.

Just create the stuff you want to create.

[brucegregory]

I most sincerely want to finally finish something I have started - especially in the realm of animation. I've been trying for a long time. I promised my 3 girls I would make cartoons for them - especially for them.

 

Now, they are all grown up - with families of their own - and, you know what, no cartoons.

 

This is why I turn my head, back again, toward AM. It's the software that might, finally, enable me to finish those cartoons. It's the right set of tools for the job.

 

This is the source of my passion. This is why I want AM to persist - subsist - endure - continue and prosper. Really.

 

I wonder if Martin feels any of this - the desire to fulfill both his childhood dreams and those he imagined for his kids. To inspire his kids. To show something more of himself, through animation, than he has ever been able to do before.

 

Well, now I am embarrassed. I've given too much away. I've exposed my weaknesses.

 

 

Greg Smith

[Rodney]

Well, now I am embarrassed. I've given too much away. I've exposed my weaknesses.

 

If that is your weakness Greg, sign me up for some of the same.

If you want to create computer animated movies you can relax. You're at the right place.

Start a WIP and you are on your way!

 

I wonder if Martin feels any of this - the desire to fulfill both his childhood dreams and those he imagined for his kids. To inspire his kids. To show something more of himself, through animation, than he has ever been able to do before.

 

When you make your film with A:M you realize and therefore revalidate Martin's dream.

[Vertexspline]

Fear not Greg --you are not alone. I could almost use your same story but substitute "boys" for "girls". No shame in not getting around to making those Cartoons --I am sure you were busy being Dad . And coming back to AM seems like a good choice indeed. I think its better than ever and ready when you are to start those cartoons you had in mind for your girls.

 

I would not worry too much about AM or Martin --- not much you can do about anything there. Of course making a cool animated film (even short or cartoon ) would always favor the software that helped make it in a good light indeed! And make its creator pretty proud as well.

 

You have what you need to make the stories come alive. And with practice and lots of work they will. It's my hope for myself as well. There is something about unfinished business that really inspires the soul.

[zandoriastudios]

So just get to work, Bruce!

Those cartoons aren't going to make themselves...and no amount of talking about it is going to get anything done either...Just work.