Exercise 10: FW-190 Fighter

[Rodney]

lkwebb21 said:

No I'm not using targa images, I'm using jpegs. Is there a problem with that? Also whats a mip map. Keep in mind I'm a newbie.

 

Example: I just spent 2 days trying to figure out why my particles wouln't show up. I found in the render to file options, particles were turned off! (DUH)

 

Man, I've got a lot to learn.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about mip maps.

Not many people (newbies or otherwise) have to worry abou them.

If you are an aspiring graphics programmer... yeah... read up on mip maps.

 

The reason I mention them is that I've always had more success using Targa images as decals than anything else.

This may be because A:M has long been able to use Targas and recently added jpeg support and I'm just not familiar with the differences.

 

I thought the decals for this exercise where Targa format?

Has that changed while I wasn't looking? Actually... you've added your own decals so here is me answering my own question.

My apologies. To test that out you could convert your images to targa format in any number of utilities out there.

I like 'Irfanview' but there are many others.

 

The particle thing catches everyone at one time or another.

I always forget to turn it on for dust... forgetting that its a particle effect.

You are right... (DUH!)

 

 

Al,

You are quite the modeler lately.

Good job. Bet you can't make it fly!

[lkwebb21]

lkwebb21 said:

No I'm not using targa images, I'm using jpegs. Is there a problem with that? Also whats a mip map. Keep in mind I'm a newbie.

 

Example: I just spent 2 days trying to figure out why my particles wouln't show up. I found in the render to file options, particles were turned off! (DUH)

 

Man, I've got a lot to learn.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about mip maps.

Not many people (newbies or otherwise) have to worry abou them.

If you are an aspiring graphics programmer... yeah... read up on mip maps.

 

The reason I mention them is that I've always had more success using Targa images as decals than anything else.

This may be because A:M has long been able to use Targas and recently added jpeg support and I'm just not familiar with the differences.

 

I thought the decals for this exercise where Targa format?

Has that changed while I wasn't looking? Actually... you've added your own decals so here is me answering my own question.

My apologies. To test that out you could convert your images to targa format in any number of utilities out there.

I like 'Irfanview' but there are many others.

 

 

I tried using targas but it did the same thing. Strange thing is that moving the bias handles seems to lessen the smearing, but distorts the image.

[Tunames]

NAME: Steve George

EXERCISE: #10 FW-190

INSTRUCTOR: you

REMARKS: This was a good exercise for me I actually relearned some stuff I'd forgotten.

 

[mfortunato]

Really nice model, Steve! I like how you finished off the wheels with bright, shiny rims! This and the Cooper tutorial really helped me with my modeling skills (ok - I still have a long way to go - but they still helped ).

 

- Michael

[Andy S.]

Name: Andy Stewart

Exercise - #10

Completed: Feb 11, 2007

 

Comments: Took a bit longer, but not as hard as I thought it would be. However, I have one issue that's gotten me puzzled. I'm posting three images, maybe someone can tell me what my problem is (well, the problem with the render anyway ). First one is rendered as shaded, and it renders as it should, colors matching the decals. The second one I rendered as final, and it has a blue tint to it. (The third one is just a toon render, wondered what it would look like [also has a blue tint]). Any ideas on why I'm getting the blue shading all over? If it was a problem with the way I tinted the canopy, I'd think it would show up in the shaded render as well as the final render, but it doesn't.

 

[mfortunato]

First off, let me say nice job on your plane. I modeled and remodeled mine 3x before I got it to look right.

 

Regarding the color, have you checked the lighting setup in your Choreography scene? Also, what are the Surface settings for the plane model? If you wouldn't mind posting a pic of the Surface settings, this might help troubleshoot the blue issue (although, I have to admit, the plane looks good with the blue tint ).

 

Lastly, do you have fog turned on and, if so, what color is the fog. I know, I'm probably reaching, but I figured it was worth a shot as well .

 

- Michael

[Andy S.]

First off, let me say nice job on your plane. I modeled and remodeled mine 3x before I got it to look right.

 

Thank you. I got lucky on my first shot.

 

Regarding the color, have you checked the lighting setup in your Choreography scene? Also, what are the Surface settings for the plane model? If you wouldn't mind posting a pic of the Surface settings, this might help troubleshoot the blue issue (although, I have to admit, the plane looks good with the blue tint ).

Had a couple blue settings in the choreography scene, set them to white and re-rended and still had the blue tint. It does look kinda cool with the blue tint though

 

Lastly, do you have fog turned on and, if so, what color is the fog. I know, I'm probably reaching, but I figured it was worth a shot as well .

 

Fog's off.

 

Here are sshots of the surface settings, and render settings.

 

 

Thanx

A

[Chrury Sanson]

Hmmm. Puzzling. Well modeled, blue and puzzling. Got me stumped. (though you are using a few settings I haven't touched)

 

 

 

 

Name: [PoT]KnChrury

 

Exercise: #10 Da plane!, I mean FW-190

 

Teacher: TAoAM that is under my jellybeans at the moment

 

Completed: 2/11/2007 with minor tweaking for the pictures this morning

 

 

Notes: That took long enough. Could have been done sooner but I have been working with my goomba (see avatar)

 

When I finished the tutorial, I was determined to add more detail! There were all these great little things that just aren't covered. So about 2/3 of my time was adding that detail. And while some of it may not be the most accurate, the fact that it's there (I think) adds to the feel of the model.

 

The plane is NOT boned right now, but the details (prop, flaps, joystick, landing gear) are set up to accept a rig if it was needed. They could rotate without showing any ugly patches. Or lack there-of. Except the cockpit canopy. I forgot about that one.

 

My annoyances with this project:

-The side decal. I wish the wing wasn't in the shot. I just looks silly being painted on the fuselage.

- My rotoscopes weren't exactly the same dimensions when I scaled them. This made some parts be out of scale and the decaling had to have a crease or two.

So this is a model of a model plane?

- I couldn't model the recesses that the landing gear folds into. Tried booleans but figured some things are more trouble than they're worth.

 

I could've added a few more things. Bomb holder, pedals, straps for the chair, front braces for the canopy, but I said "I am not getting paid for this one, it is good enough and I'm satisfied."

 

That was my journey with this model.

CRJ over and OUT.

 

PS: I'm at 100 posts!

[jmf3d3d]

Congrats on the 100 posts! Your attention to extra details on the model paid off, it looks great!

i, too,was annoyed at the wing shadow on the side decal, but was too lazy to open up photoshop and diminish it. I'm not clear on your point about the rotoscope scaling problem... holding down the shift key maintains aspect ratio (but you probably knew that and are refering to something else).

 

It's nice to see the result when someone spends "too much time" on one of these projects .

 

--jerry

[mfortunato]

Hi Chrury -

 

Nice job on the plane. The details really do add a lot to the model! Also, I love the Goomba! I have been silently following the Super Mario thread and watching the wonderful models coming from that thread! I can't wait to see what's next.

 

- Michael

[Chrury Sanson]

Well, THANKS! Having other modelers/animators like something is different than non-animating family members.

 

The scaling problem wasn't for any ONE rotoscope, it was the fact that all THREE weren't the same dimensions. So the side.tga wasn't the same height as front.tga and the wingspan wasn't the same in the front.tga and top.tga. That's what bugged me.

[jmf3d3d]

The scaling problem wasn't for any ONE rotoscope, it was the fact that all THREE weren't the same dimensions. So the side.tga wasn't the same height as front.tga and the wingspan wasn't the same in the front.tga and top.tga. That's what bugged me.

 

 

Ah, yes, that, in my very limited experience, seems like a general problem. Unless you take the photo for the rotoscopes EXACTLY centered and perpendicular with 0 degrees on x, y and z... you will have mismatches. Even a slight rotation (of the camera) in any axis will cause distortion and uneven foreshortening. I think this is one of the reasons we are advised to use as long a lens as possible when shooting rotoscopes... slight rotational distortion will be minimized with more distance. Something to keep in mind when we get around to shooting our own rotoscopes.

 

--jerry

[mfortunato]

First off, let me say nice job on your plane. I modeled and remodeled mine 3x before I got it to look right.

 

Thank you. I got lucky on my first shot.

 

Regarding the color, have you checked the lighting setup in your Choreography scene? Also, what are the Surface settings for the plane model? If you wouldn't mind posting a pic of the Surface settings, this might help troubleshoot the blue issue (although, I have to admit, the plane looks good with the blue tint ).

Had a couple blue settings in the choreography scene, set them to white and re-rended and still had the blue tint. It does look kinda cool with the blue tint though

 

Lastly, do you have fog turned on and, if so, what color is the fog. I know, I'm probably reaching, but I figured it was worth a shot as well .

 

Fog's off.

 

Here are sshots of the surface settings, and render settings.

 

 

Thanx

A

 

Hi Andy -

 

You have the Ambience Render Shader turned on in the Advanced Render Settings properties. It's at the bottom under Plugin Shaders. This is why your plane is turning a lovely shade of blue . Just turn that off and it will render fine.

 

- Michael

[Andy S.]

You have the Ambience Render Shader turned on in the Advanced Render Settings properties. It's at the bottom under Plugin Shaders. This is why your plane is turning a lovely shade of blue . Just turn that off and it will render fine.

 

Michael,

 

That was it... looked straight at it, but didn't see it. So, here's the fixed render:

 

 

Thanx

A

[lkwebb21]

I found the problem with my decal. If you have a long straight spline and long bias handles it will distort the patch. I shortened the bias handles, reapplied the decal, and the problem went away.

[Rodney]

I found the problem with my decal. If you have a long straight spline and long bias handles it will distort the patch. I shortened the bias handles, reapplied the decal, and the problem went away.

 

Outstanding news.

Modelers, decalers... bias handle tweakers... take note!

 

Glad to see you got the problem fixed.

[Raffi]

NAME: Ralf Kampp

EXERCISE: #10 FW-190

COMPLETED: Feb 28, 2007

REMARKS: This was more fun that I had thought

[Logrus]

For the life of me i can not get the wheels to come out. I tried the book, i tried understanding the guy in the tutorial. But for some odd reason neither of them dont come out.. Anyone have any tips or ideas to simplfiy it, If so please clue me in.. Until then time to try it again..

[Caroline]

How do you mean "come out". Do you mean latheing?

 

If you follow the manual exactly it should work. There are a couple of tutorials on latheing - the tire is a torus shape:

 

http://www.hash.com/amtutes/basic/LathingTorus.htm

 

and Rodney's Advanced Latheing:

 

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showt...lathe++tutorial

 

Or do you mean materials?

 

Specifics needed.....

[Logrus]

NAME: Big E

EXERCISE: #10 FW-190

COMPLETED: March 16, 2007

REMARKS: Had a few issues, The tire for some odd reason baffled me. It wasnt comming out like it said in the book (images are a lil unclear for a few of the projects). Went an watched the tutorial with the guy who struggled with it for close to 6 mins. Came back after my fish, An knocked it out in less then 30 seconds.. Other issue i had was when i went to preview my choice for colors an contrasts an all that good stuff, I hit escape an the whole A.M went crazy, Thankfully i remembered the 1 rule of thumb. ALWAYS SAVE

 

 

 

Not to bad i wish i could have went back an toned down the struts as well as made the glass more on the gray scale, But after A.M went crazy an crashed i just said good enough... Carol thanks for the info, i searched for info on wheels an circles an didnt come up with much, A good read an linsk i will go back an visit.. Wish me luck im goin after the Giraffe!!

[Caroline]

Well done on the FW - my advice on the giraffe would be just as you did on the plane. When you get stuck, go out and fish for a while, and then it gets easier.

[Logrus]

Yeah just walking away for a little while seemed to make a huge difference in me getting thru the stuck points. But now i look at the giraffe an all i can think to myself is "WoW" followed by "Man i hope carol is on tonight"....

 

I did have another question about the airplane model.. Heres a pic, What are those yellow points comming out of the plane used for. Are they really necassary, An how do a hide them.. I dont remember reading about that, But my brain works at seeing an image with its name, an a example of why its there an whats it for. It helps me remember it alot better..

 

[Rodney]

Big E,

Those yellow needles are 'normals' and they demonstrate which way the models patches are facing.

Its a handy way of knowing which way they are oriented as sometimes you may need to know.

 

You can turn them off either by shortcut key or via Tools/Options on the Modeling tab.

The shortcut key is SHIFT 1 to toggle normals On and Off.

To flip one or more selected normals on a patch the shorcut key is F or Right Click and select Flip Normals.

 

Nice plane!

[Logrus]

Ahh ok Rod thanks for the info on them. i do remember seeing them for the flower project, an just kept them all facing the same way.. Nice to know i can simply toggle them all on an off when i need them. Because right now on my giraffe project its starting to annoy me somewhat.. Im curious is there any information or patch notes on fixing A.M from crashing when i went to reder mode, then escaped out. Last two times on the plane project it screwed up my project workspace, an it would close down on me...

 

P.S Thanks for the compliment on the plane. Though i need to start cheating an jump ahead, Cause all these other students are going that extra mile..

[Rodney]

Im curious is there any information or patch notes on fixing A.M from crashing when i went to reder mode, then escaped out. Last two times on the plane project it screwed up my project workspace, an it would close down on me...

 

One thing I've found to work well, especially on unstable computers or ones with little memory is to save often and *always* before doing anything memory intensive.

Before rendering *always* save your project. This is not only a good habit but it may free up some memory and computer resources that can be allocated to the task at hand.

 

P.S Thanks for the compliment on the plane. Though i need to start cheating an jump ahead, Cause all these other students are going that extra mile..

 

Cheating??? Ohoh... looks like you really are learning the art of animation.

[AJS007]

Name: Alan Selby

Exercise: #10 (FW-190 Fighter)

Completed: April 1st 2007

 

Remarks:

General: The final result was better than expected - The most enjoyable to date. I had some assistance watching a tutorial off the ftp site - Users/JohnArtbox/buildcockpit.htm - I would recommend all Newbies to watch it.

(ftp://ftp.hashmirror.com/users/JohnArtbox/buildcockpit.htm)

 

Difficult areas: The tyres - OMG - but once mastered it was easy, but a huge learning curve - now I can belt them out without thinking. Good lesson for Copy and flip when it went right ;-)

 

Lessons learned: You lathe around the 'Y' axis !! If you want a nicer model - loose the wing profile on the fuselage - take time out to modify the images for the decals and save them as new files. I used some of JohnArtbox lesson to make a tidied cockpit area and to give the engine housing a recessed shape - although you can't see it. Oh, and one final lesson learned, Decals cover a multitude of modelling sins ;-)

 

Further assistance required: Need to learn more about surface attributes (note to self)

[Logrus]

Looks very good AJ. I like yourself had a tough time on the wheels. An watching the video of the guy struggling with it didnt help me out one bit..

[AJS007]

Looks very good AJ. I like yourself had a tough time on the wheels. An watching the video of the guy struggling with it didnt help me out one bit..

I'm 100% with you on the wheels.

Overall, it was an excellent tutorial - But I thought that a quick tutorial may be beneficial to explain to others how easy the wheels are 'when you know how' ... so I've uploaded it here - http://www.cwazywabbit.co.uk/animation/fw190.htm with the files I used.

I'd appreciate the feedback.

[elliotclem1]

Name: Elliot Clements

Exercise Completed: Exercise 10: FW-190 Fighter

Total Completed Exercises: 10

Date Completed: 28 April, 2007

Instructor(s): Manual

Remarks/Suggestions: I did this exercise a while back. Sorry about the bad quality rendering. I had to compress it because it was 16.5mb! So I got it down to 233kb. I think I should have covered the picture of the wings on the rotoscope with the 3D ones. What do you think? Hope you like it.

 

plane.mov

 

Comments please.

[Caroline]

Nice plane - not sure what you mean by covering the wings. I liked the light reflection on the canopy whosit. (I'm not a plane person )

 

It shouldn't have been 16.5mb - were you using Sorenson 3 compression for the mov format? Or was it just a big fancy render?

[AJS007]

Nice model,

 

Only one small comment ... the tail is too thick on the leading edge ... in practice, it should have a sharper leading edge rather than being 'stubby' - needs to cut through the air

 

.. but that's just me sticking my Engineering hat on ;-)

 

If you want a good site to make some more planes, go to http://web2.altmuehlnet.de/luklam/Modellbau/Props.htm

 

another good place is .. http://www.the-blueprints.com/

[Geoff]

Hey,

 

I was about to do this exercise but i cant find the rotoscope anywhere. Where do i get it?

 

Geoff

[Caroline]

Hi, Geoff - it should be as stated in the TaoA:M manual, for this exercise, on your CD in the folder "Data\Tutorials\FW-190 Fighter\Maps\Front.tga".

[AJS007]

Hey,

 

I was about to do this exercise but i cant find the rotoscope anywhere. Where do i get it?

 

Geoff

Hi Geoff,

I would strongly suggest that you watch the video tutorial at http://www.hash.com/2007web/vm.htm

Exercise 10: "FW-190 Figher"

part1 (25MB)

part2 (22MB)

part3 (20MB)

part4 (30MB)

zip (93MB)

 

Don't forget to watch the bottom left hand corner of your screen when resize / scaling your control points -

When you have the plane in top view and try to thin out the fuselage, you sometimes reduce the entire section rather than in the single axis you require (i.e. x-axis).

 

Also, have a quick look at http://www.cwazywabbit.co.uk/animation/tyr...re_tutorial.htm for my tutorial on the wheels ... the rotoscopes for this tutorial are available at - http://www.cwazywabbit.co.uk/animation/fw190.htm

 

Good luck,

 

Alan

[jbeery]

Name: Jim Beery

 

Exercise Completed: Exercise 10: F W 190 Fighter

 

Date Completed: 18.5.07

 

Instructor: TaoA:M pdf file

 

Remarks : I remember doing this exercise way back when. It turned out much better this time around. Even got to where I can turn out a donut pretty well.

 

[BrainLock]

very nice.

[howboring]

Hi Guys!

 

I've managed to model the plane with no problems, however I'm having some problems with the decalling. I have attached 2 pics, one pic is in the modelling window. Everything looks fine. 2nd pic is when I render it, I got horrible white space on th body of the plane, but the wings are fine.

 

Anyone know why? Have I missed something?

 

Thanks

[Logrus]

Wow thats odd, It seems to me as if those white marks are following your splines, I'm stumped.

[GDblEK]

Name: David Jerrell

Exercise: 10 Folkwithe fighter

Date of Completion: 06/18/2007

Instructor: AM Manual

 

I have tried to go a little beyond what was in the book. I have seperated the wheel from the housing, I've also tried to make the prop blades more curved. I did try decaling from the side and top and ran into a some distortion, so I went to hiding portions that had a decent decal. I have noticed that it appears as though the two different decals have a different green. It may also be that an under color is bleeding through, but it will take me a bit of time to figure this out. Anyways, here is the capture of my excercise.

 

I did notice that my model is just large enough to show the edging of the decals (that dark stripe right at the leading edges.)

[howboring]

I tried modelling the body of the plane again and applied the decals to it and it worked! I have no idea why the decals were showing the splines before

[playerktw]

Moving right along.

 

Kevin Woods

Exercise 10

9/28/07

[spacecomics]

Name: Roger Christenson

 

Exercise Completed: Exercise 10

 

Date Completed: 21 November 07

 

Instructor: book

 

[Masna]

Hey, I started lesson 10 but I have some questions about the wording on page 108. It says I need to scale the individual spline rings to match the rotoscope. But when I shrink the spline rings to match the body it shrinks the height as well. Does it mean that I shouls select the side of the spline rings, and move those?

[c-wheeler]

Try just shrinking them in the x-direction only.

Select the spline ring, then in the PWS you have a new group, called "untitled"

Expand this group by clicking again on the triangle, then again on "Transform", then on "Scale"

This gives three options, scale x, y and Z.

Scale x does the width, y the height.

 

Chris

[Masna]

Thanks for the help Chris! Oh and I have anoter modeling question. I went and did the stabilizers, I lined it up with the top view, then I went to the left. But when I lined up with the left it wasn't lined up with the to anymore. My rotoscope are lined up correctly. Can anyone help me?

[r4z2]

I'm having some real trouble with the wheels of this model, I've already Lathed it once, and the next step is to lathe it again to make it into a 3d 'circle'. But I cant seem to Lathe it, the symbol for it it grey - I cant click it. Why is this?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

r4z2

[adam&oliver]

Hi, Masna

Make sure you have the perspective off, this may be causing your problems with getting things to line up.

You can do this by clicking the perspective button on the views toolbar or by right clicking in the model winow then view and uncheck perspective.

[Masna]

Hi, Masna

Make sure you have the perspective off, this may be causing your problems with getting things to line up.

You can do this by clicking the perspective button on the views toolbar or by right clicking in the model winow then view and uncheck perspective.

 

Hey Adam&Oliver,

 

I still have no idea what the problem is but it wasn't the prespective. I turned the prespective off and still the stabilizer was not lined up. Maybe I could pot views of the front, side and top of the model. How do I post pictures of the model?

Thanks for your help,

Masna

[Rodney]

How do I post pictures of the model?

 

Masna,

We are going to have to initiate breathing exercises.

 

First, put the mouse down.

Now breathe slowly.

Inhale.... hold it.... slowly... very slowly... breath out.

Now do that again five to ten more times.

Patience my friend. Patience.

 

Everyone wants to help you but don't abuse that.

 

All this to say... Matt (John Bigboote) has answered your question when you asked it before in another post earlier today.

If you read it you'll know how to post pictures of your model.

 

You can read it here.

[Masna]

How do I post pictures of the model?

 

Masna,

We are going to have to initiate breathing exercises.

 

First, put the mouse down.

Now breathe slowly.

Inhale.... hold it.... slowly... very slowly... breath out.

Now do that again five to ten more times.

Patience my friend. Patience.

 

Everyone wants to help you but don't abuse that.

 

All this to say... Matt (John Bigboote) has answered your question when you asked it before in another post earlier today.

If you read it you'll know how to post pictures of your model.

 

 

Sorry, I guess I forgot I had posted that earlier. But I did get the diffrent views.