Windowsy Questions

[largento]

I'm looking at running Windows via Parallels on my Mac, so that I can take advantage of some of the A:M plug-ins that don't work on the Mac (ie DarkTree textures, Setup Machine2, etc.)

 

In order to do this, I have to purchase Windows and in trying to sift through the stuff, I find myself scratching my head.

 

Windows 7 OEM 64-Bit seems to be an attractive option, yet it says in the eula that I can only purchase this if I'm building a PC that I'm going to sell to someone else and provide support for.

 

Yet, Windows 8 OEM 64-bit says I can use it personally.

 

Windows 7 is a bit cheaper, but Windows 8 apparently offers a free option to update to Windows 8.1 providing I purchase it prior to 8.1 being released. Why I wouldn't just buy 8.1 instead, doesn't appear to have occurred to them.

 

So, it seems like I should go with Windows 8 oem, but I hear that most Windozy people do not like Windows 8.

 

If I go with Windows 7, will I be immediately incarcerated for not selling my computer to someone else?

[Gerry]

Mark, I believe the Setup Machine no longer works with the current version of AM. It did up to maybe v15 or 16, but no more. I guess you could run it in an older version, but check further, I could be wrong as it's been awhile.

[largento]

I keep reading posts asking that question and most of them seemed to say that it did work, but then, I probably stopped paying attention after awhile. I can run older versions as well as the latest on Windows, right?

[Fuchur]

I keep reading posts asking that question and most of them seemed to say that it did work, but then, I probably stopped paying attention after awhile. I can run older versions as well as the latest on Windows, right?

 

Yes as long as we are not talking about something before A:M v6 or something like that.. just guessing the version... v8 and up will run on any newer windows (xp, vista, win7 or 8 or 8.1).

 

I would recommend win7 over win8.1 but that is really just a matter of taste if u r not too much used to windows it will not make a huge difference since u will have to learn anyway.

 

But win7 is better tested with am...

I could be wrong but i think you can run setup machine2 on windows but u need to install A:M 32bit to do that. (You can install both next to eachother with 64 bit windows.

 

See u

*Fuchur*

[NancyGormezano]

I could be wrong but i think you can run setup machine2 on windows but u need to install A:M 32bit to do that. (You can install both next to eachother with 64 bit windows.

 

I run TSM2 on ver16b-32 (win xp pro) but I am pretty sure it will run with win7 (Robert does it I believe)

[largento]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

 

I'm going to run it through Parallels, which allows you to run Windows in the background in Coherence mode and launch apps as if they were Mac apps, so I'll spend very little time actually interfacing with Windows itself.

 

My impulse is to go ahead with the Windows 8 oem. I won't have to violate the eula and it will offer a free upgrade to 8.1.

[robcat2075]

I never read the EULA all that closely but I'm running Windows 7 on my self-built PC that I didn't sell to anyone else. Do Mac forums have anything to say about this?

 

TSM2 does run on v16 32-bit.

 

I think Windows shoudl be fine once you get past initial screen and launch the app.

 

 

I'm going to run it through Parallels, which allows you to run Windows in the background in Coherence mode and launch apps as if they were Mac apps, so I'll spend very little time actually interfacing with Windows itself.

 

My first suspicion is that it will be ghastly slow or incompatible, but let us know how that works.

[Gerry]

Well the experts have spoken! Maybe I'm thinking of trying TSM on the Mac, but that would be like a year or so ago. I've sworn by it for rigging for years now, to the point where I was maybe too dependent on it. but I tried the squetch rig and the install was pretty easy so I was happy with it.

 

Be advised that I'm depending solely on my memory!

[fae_alba]

I'd stick with win7 over win8 myself. While I don't have first hand experience with win8, I tend to stick with the more mature versions of the win OS. Hell, I'd still be running XP if I could!

[largento]

I'm basically thinking future savings with going with 8. The price difference was nominal and since this will allow me to upgrade to 8.1 for free, it should keep me solid for the near future.

 

I try to stay up-to-date on my Mac, but it only costs me $20 to do so!

 

Robert, I've run A:M via Parallels on my Mac before and the experience wasn't bad at all. And that was on an iMac with an early version of Parallels running XP. They've been steadily improving Parallels all along and they are up to v 9 now. When the hard drive crashed on my iMac (back in 2008), I didn't see enough of a good reason to buy a new copy of Windows and install it on my new Mac Pro.

 

If I recall correctly, the only issue I had was that images that were rendered out of my Windows copy didn't match the ones rendered from my Mac copy. Remember, though, that we're talking about five years ago and everything has changed significantly since then.

[Simon Edmondson]

Mark

Pardon my ignorance but, is Parallels a native Mac program, I've never heard of it before?

I moved over to Apple with the advent of Vista but, like you, there are some aspects of AM I would like to use under windows.

regards

simon

[robcat2075]

I'll note for anyone wanting to run A:M on Windows on a Mac, it will require an additional license. The license from the Mac side will not activate A:M on the PC side.

[thefreshestever]

I'll note for anyone wanting to run A:M on Windows on a Mac, it will require an additional license. The license from the Mac side will not activate A:M on the PC side.

 

 

hmm, steffen told me just 2 days ago that i COULD run a:m on windows on a mac with the same license.

[largento]

When I ran it before, it was using the same license. I had to get Hash to email me a second activation code, but I had no problems. After all, it's just one computer.

[robcat2075]

If it works, it works.

 

A new activation code is really a new license, however. If Hash will give it for free, that's great but i don't know that that is standard practice. Jason would have to clarify that.

[largento]

A new activation code on the same computer is not a new license.

[markw]

Mark

Pardon my ignorance but, is Parallels a native Mac program, I've never heard of it before?

I moved over to Apple with the advent of Vista but, like you, there are some aspects of AM I would like to use under windows.

regards

simon

Hi Simon

There are several ways of getting Windows or just Windows apps running on Macs.

This article gives a good overview of the options available: http://www.macworld.com/article/1164817/th...n_your_mac.html

The only down side stopping me from trying it is the combined cost of buying both the Windows OS/license and the app to make it work. An expense I can't really justify sadly as A:M would be the only thing I would want to run under Windows. Like yourself it would be just so that I could have access to all aspects of A:M that the Windows user gets.

[thefreshestever]

i can´t help myself, but every single cell in my body is shivering when i think about installing windows on my mac. it just doesn´t feel right.

[Fuchur]

A new activation code on the same computer is not a new license.

 

Technically spoken it is if the licence system takes the os in account to create a unique identifier

 

If it does not it will be the same technically. (-> this means from a programmer point of view not a seller)

 

I do think that it may not be taken in account and that only hardware is if i listen too people who can run win and mac versions with the same lic-file.

[largento]

When I did this before, I ended up with two installations of Windows. The one I installed through Parallels and then another in a partition to use Bootcamp. Like Sebastian, I was wary about going all-in with putting Windows on my Mac. I had to call Microsoft for the second one and explained the situation. They told me as long as it was the same computer, it was okay and gave me another code that activated it.

 

So did Hash.

 

Why would they now suddenly refuse?

 

And not to make an issue of it, but my investment is already quite large just so that I can get parity with the Windows version. It's not like two people can use the app at the same time. The only benefit I get is being able to do what the Windows version does that the Mac version cannot.

[robcat2075]

I'm glad I'm wrong about the Mac license situation and I apologize for the misinformation.

[Simon Edmondson]

...

There are several ways of getting Windows or just Windows apps running on Macs.

This article gives a good overview of the options available: http://www.macworld.com/article/1164817/th...n_your_mac.html

The only down side stopping me from trying it is the combined cost of buying both the Windows OS/license and the app to make it work. An expense I can't really justify sadly as A:M would be the only thing I would want to run under Windows. Like yourself it would be just so that I could have access to all aspects of A:M that the Windows user gets.

 

Mark

Thank you for your reply and the info. I shall follow it up later.

Its mainly the 64bit AM that I'd be interested in using but theres some stop frame software that is of interest too.

regards

simon

[largento]

I'm with you guys on the cost, but I'm really down to no choice. I have things that use darktree filters that I need to be able to render and I've got to get this movie done. :-)

 

I found having to reboot into Windows or Mac a pain. Also, there weren't great implementations at the time for sharing files. Especially since I was using external hard drives that had been formatted in such a way that Windows didn't recognize them.

 

I just loaded Windows 8 into Parallels this time. So far, so good. Waiting for the activation code to run A:M, but the basic stuff and Internet Explorer appear to be moving at normal speeds. My Mac Pro is fairly beefy (2 quad core Xeons with 14GB of RAM), so I expect it to run well.

[robcat2075]

The darktree Stuff doesn't work on the mac? The simbiont plugin is included in the mac version isn't it?

[largento]

The plugin stopped working a couple of OS updates ago.

[pixelplucker]

What AM needs is a new auto rigger to replace TSM since TSM is no longer supported.

 

How difficult would it be to make a joint based rigging system that can assign articulation through names? Such as naming a null "knee", another ""right ankle" and so on. Have the plugin draw bones based on hierarchy and apply appropriate constraints.

 

It is nice to encourage people to learn how to rig but it can be a daunting task for most that are new to the field, most will be discouraged and quit.

 

On the licensing side which seems to be coming up more and more with the sub version, is it possible to use a fingerprint reader in place of a dongle?

AM would be licensed to the Person and not the machine they are on or are machines considered people too (part of citizens united?). Obviously have AM talk back at launch so the system isn't abused.

 

BTW I am still using Win 7 here, not too crazy about the giant smart phone menus on 8. It has to be about the clumsiest way of working on a desktop that I have seen in a long time. Suppose it might be ok if I junk my 21" Cintiq for a 3x5 lcd. Considering my options down the road when Win 7 becomes obsolete, and yes Vista was about the worst they had.

[thefreshestever]

What AM needs is a new auto rigger to replace TSM since TSM is no longer supported.

 

How difficult would it be to make a joint based rigging system that can assign articulation through names? Such as naming a null "knee", another ""right ankle" and so on. Have the plugin draw bones based on hierarchy and apply appropriate constraints.

 

It is nice to encourage people to learn how to rig but it can be a daunting task for most that are new to the field, most will be discouraged and quit.

 

On the licensing side which seems to be coming up more and more with the sub version, is it possible to use a fingerprint reader in place of a dongle?

AM would be licensed to the Person and not the machine they are on or are machines considered people too (part of citizens united?). Obviously have AM talk back at launch so the system isn't abused.

 

BTW I am still using Win 7 here, not too crazy about the giant smart phone menus on 8. It has to be about the clumsiest way of working on a desktop that I have seen in a long time. Suppose it might be ok if I junk my 21" Cintiq for a 3x5 lcd. Considering my options down the road when Win 7 becomes obsolete, and yes Vista was about the worst they had.

 

i don´t get why rigging a character with tsm2 should be such a huge advantage over other rigs. don´t get me wrong, tsm is great, but one still has to position bones, weight cps, define facial poses etc... and that´s the most time consuming and complex part of rigging. it´s been a long time since i´ve rigged a character with tsm2, but i remember it not being such a huge time saver.

 

but you´re right, some other software packages do have some pretty neat rigging features, where almost everything is automated. but you have to keep in mind that there are most likely a bunch of people coding full time to make something like this possible.

[largento]

The Windows interface becomes kind of moot with Parallels Coherence mode, Ken. You can launch Windows apps directly from the Mac Dock and they strip out the Windows background, so that you just see the apps windows over the Mac interface.

 

I haven't received another activation code yet, so I can't say how well A:M will run with it.

 

I'm not saying anything pro or negative about TSM2, just used it as an example of things I can't do with the Mac version. Apple seems to be on this kick about upgrading the OS every time you blink (the next one is rumored to be coming out this month) and every version seems to chip away at the Mac version of A:M. Having the Windows version on my Mac as a supplement will hopefully shield me from further issues. It will also help as a transition in case one of the new Mac updates renders A:M unusable right in the middle of a project and the Windows version is my only hope.

[robcat2075]

i don´t get why rigging a character with tsm2 should be such a huge advantage over other rigs. don´t get me wrong, tsm is great, but one still has to position bones, weight cps, define facial poses etc...

 

I keep using TSM2 because I'm familiar both with installing it and animating with it. I know exactly what to do with it and how to modify it when i need to. In a few minutes i can throw the basic bones in a character, attach the CPs quick and dirty and shazaam!... i've got my character at least movable and posable in some basic fashion.

 

But that's me.

 

The other A:M rigs are not much harder to install and the Squetch rig is a wonderful thing. However, I think the CP attaching and weighting process still baffles most users no matter what rig they choose.

 

I don't feel TAoA:M ever introduced "rigging" properly so we have a large body of users who don't "get it". In my startup video for "rigging" I tried to explain the reasons for why rigging is what it is and make the strategy that goes in to it more clear.

[largento]

Well, I'm finally up and running with A:M on Parallels!

 

What is the most incredible improvement over my experience in 2007, is that all my files and folders are instantly recognized by Windows. I went to open a model and I was immediately in my Documents folder. In 2007, sharing a file required creating a shared folder and placing everything in there. This is so much better.

 

The Coherence behavior is a bit odd. Sometimes instead of refreshing, the screen appears to slide off to the left or right with a new screen following it. Opening a model file that isn't linked to a material file will sometimes toss the screen aside just to show you the dialog box. I'm happy to say, though, that at least so far, I've not encountered the greyed out box problem. Most likely because it's using the Windows interface.

 

Speed-wise, most everything seems to run as well as it does on the Mac, but I do notice a flickering during tumbling, as if the screen isn't refreshing as quickly to make it smooth.

 

Bringing in a rigged character, I found that posing bones was about the same as on the Mac side. There was a notable difference in 2007 with the virtual Windows version being faster, but subsequent versions of A:M greatly improved the performance on the Mac side. That was ultimately what caused me to abandon the Windows version after all that expense and effort. The Mac version was suddenly fast!

 

I did a test render. A frame from the Wobbling Dead rendered in 1:40 on virtual Windows and 2:52 on the native Mac version. Flipping between the two resulting images, showed no difference in the image. That's a significant difference in render speed. And encouraging, since part of my reason for making this switch was so that I could re-render Stalled Trek in HD.

 

I'm working on a series of shots right now and am going to try a few in the Windows version to see how they go.

 

I don't think I'd recommend the expense to another Mac user, but on the initial try, it at least is an option.

[robcat2075]

That's good news, Mark.

 

What Windows did you end up going with?

 

I'm happy to say, though, that at least so far, I've not encountered the greyed out box problem. Most likely because it's using the Windows interface.

 

I wonder ... does MacOS have any "compatibility" settings for old programs the way Windows does? In windows you can set a program to run in Windows XP "compatibility mode", for example. That's how i got my 13 year-old version of After Effects to recognize modern Quicktime.

[largento]

I ended up with Windows 8 OEM. According to what I read, this qualifies me for a free upgrade to 8.1 and apparently 8.1 will not have an OEM version. I've heard 8 is getting a bad wrap, but to be honest, I've been having an easier time with it than I did Windows XP back in 2007.

 

The way I figure it this gives me the option of upgrading for free if it becomes necessary.

 

When Apple transitioned from its PowerPC chips to Intel chips, it kept support for the PowerPC in the OS. So, there was awhile there where the OS had to run on both chipsets. Many apps were released as Universal Binaries that worked on both platforms. This was in 2006 and they kept support for both until Snow Leopard in 2009. There was still a Rosetta translator that would allow apps written for the PowerPC to work, but that was dropped in 2011 when Lion came out. (That's when we lost support for the plug-in, which was presumably written for the PowerPC architecture.) Mountain Lion was released in 2012 and Mavericks is releasing this fall.

 

I don't really understand the particulars, but I guess Mac apps have to be compiled in Xcode and there are issues with Xcode being updated and meaning that more and more parts of the A:M are needing to be rewritten to work with it.

[pixelplucker]

The Windows interface becomes kind of moot with Parallels Coherence mode, Ken. You can launch Windows apps directly from the Mac Dock and they strip out the Windows background, so that you just see the apps windows over the Mac interface.

 

I haven't received another activation code yet, so I can't say how well A:M will run with it.

 

I'm not saying anything pro or negative about TSM2, just used it as an example of things I can't do with the Mac version. Apple seems to be on this kick about upgrading the OS every time you blink (the next one is rumored to be coming out this month) and every version seems to chip away at the Mac version of A:M. Having the Windows version on my Mac as a supplement will hopefully shield me from further issues. It will also help as a transition in case one of the new Mac updates renders A:M unusable right in the middle of a project and the Windows version is my only hope.

 

One of the main reasons I stopped using Apples is because of the lack of legacy between os upgrades and the hop scotching of chipsets that pose additional compatibility issues. Good news thought is I ended up going over to AM from Electric Image because EI at the time wasn't as slick on the pc side as it was on the mac.