A:M and Python scripting

[KingVidiot]

Hello All,

 

I'm working on some Python scripting for an upcoming job, and for some examples I wanted to re-visit the Python plug-in by Petr Sorfa from A:M version 9 (2001). I have the Petey and Jaydee CD (9.0f), but apparently the specific plugin-supported sub-version of 9 requires a later CD (copy protection) to make the later download version of A:M 9 work (9.0q or later I think).

 

Does anyone have an A:M 2001 (v9, has to be v.9!) CD later than Petey and Jaydee (I don't know who the character would be) that they would like to part with? I'm between jobs now, so I don't have much money to offer. A donation would be incredible, but I'll get it however I can.

 

I tried using the plugin with A:M 2005 (v.11) and it has an error on start-up.

 

I live in Sunnyvale, so if you're local that would save on shipping. Thanks ahead of time.

 

Thanks,

Andy

kingvidiot83@yahoo.com

[robcat2075]

Welcome back!

 

v9? Ouch.

 

Which ftp directory did you get the one that doesn't work from?

[johnl3d]

Found this article from 19991 mag

 

hash.PDF

 

Mentioned AM 9 beta

 

also found this http://www.sorfa.com/plugins/am_pythonscript.html

 

It was last updated on 8/19/2001...since things have changed some with version 10, it might not work past version 9. but link appears dead

[Rodney]

The site is (mostly) still available through the wayback machine:

 

Linkage

[KingVidiot]

Cool, thanks guys. I was looking all over for that article to verify my process. The plugin never appeared in the Wizards menu.

 

Anyway, to make sure I had it all I re-downloaded the plugins and sample python scripts by launching his link through archive.org. http://web.archive.org/web/20030408012147/...thonscript.html That is my favorite site on the web since I can find all kinds of old dead sites. The A:M versions he mentions are (A:M v9.0 Tut 4, 5, and 6). What are those? It looks like I need Tut 6 or higher if that makes sense.

 

The CD version I have (Petey and Jadee) is the same version as this link for A:M 2002 9.0f: ftp://ftp.hash.com/pub/updates/windows/Am2001/v90/old/

 

and the version I would need to use fails since the CD must have changed somewhere in that time period. It can be found here (A:M 2002 9.0q): ftp://ftp.hash.com/pub/updates/windows/Am2001/v90/

 

So, I'm back to the issue of needing the newer CD that works with 9.0q. Any ideas?

[Rodney]

It sure seems like your version should do the trick.

Perhaps it is the version of Python that you are using that is keeping you from being able to use it?

 

I need Tut 6 or higher

 

You have the higher version, right?

[KingVidiot]

I didn't know what Tut 6 meant. The CDs or downloads never use that terminology.

 

It looks like you only need Python installed to make *.py files that you import in the plugin. I installed the plugin and tried to use the plugin in the Wizards popup in a modeling window, and it wasn't even a valid choice. I quit and installed Python and tried it again with the same result. It must have something to do with the A:M version, but I can't test that since 9.0q doesn't work with my CD.

 

So close and still nothing... any other ideas? This plugin produces some incredible parametric math models and other cool tricks that I could only make in Mathematica, but those are polygon models. :-(

[Rodney]

I'm in the awkward position of encouraging someone that is hitting themselves in the head with a large mallet repeatedly...

 

I believe the version you are looking for may be v9.5e (Link)

The Petey and Jaydee CD is closer to a 2002 release than 2001 but perhaps there was more than one version of the Petey and Jaydee CD released during that transitional period.

 

Because you are dealing with programs that are eight years old (or more) you are going to experience more problems than these.

I do thank you for the walk down memory lane... I really should have every version of A:M Installed and at the ready... those are great programs even if they pale in comparison to the current release.

 

I can't install and test the Python plugin at the moment but will try to do so later this evening.

 

 

(Standard Disclaimers apply: Insert recommendation for upgrading, etc. etc. etc. etc. here)

[robcat2075]

My Petey and Jaydee disk runs a v9.5l+ that I have installed. I haven't tried any Python stuff although i recall trying it long ago so I must have had some version that worked with it.

[KingVidiot]

Thanks for the link and the helpful support so far. It's odd that 9.5e works with my 9.0f CD but 9.0q

doesn't. Anyway I configured it with the plugin and the wizard popup still won't show the plugin

as a choice. Grrr...

 

I have attached the plugins if anyone has a different version of A:M 9 to try.

 

 

According to the article it needs the "A:M 9 beta ("Tutorial Release"), free for A:M 2001 users."

Maybe that's exactly what I need. I can't imagine that the guy made the plugin so specific that it

only works with that specific version, but I'd be willing to try it if anyone has that installer

somewhere on their computer or backup.

 

I don't think I'm "hitting myself in the head with a large mallet" regarding this issue. First of all I'm trying to use this as a vehicle to show a potential employer that I know some Python scripting and that it's very versatile with many interesting applications. Simple scripting examples are boring to me. Second, and maybe more important, I want to be able to extend the functionality of A:M and make some crazy mathematical models a la Mathematica and arrays with patches. Unless you can think of a better way to do that, this is the ultimate reward for all of this effort. Also I have no other problems with the older apps as you speculated.

 

I will gladly upload some examples when I get it working. Maybe that will encourage someone to make a new Python plugin to support A:M 17. It seems like many other 3D apps out there have scripting options, and this ability would help to keep A:M more competitive. I will eventually upgrade to A:M 17 or whatever when I'm not broke, and for now I'm still getting a lot of use out of these older versions. I'm not too fond of the expiring version option, so I will have to save up for the more expensive upgrade.

AM9_python_plugins.zip

[NancyGormezano]

First of all I'm trying to use this as a vehicle to show a potential employer that I know some Python scripting and that it's very versatile with many interesting applications. ...

 

I want to be able to extend the functionality of A:M and make some crazy mathematical models a la Mathematica and arrays with patches. Unless you can think of a better way to do that

Ummm... I don't know python scripting at all, but I believe it's an interpretive scripting language?

 

Regardless. Wouldn't you need to know the data structure of A:M files and the models in particular as well, in order to create any fancy-dancy models?

 

Could you not just use python to create A:M files which could then be brought in, and opened and displayed in A:M, without having a plug-in for A:M? Sounds challenging enough. Too challenging maybe? You're trying to demonstrate your skill in Python, not A:M or 3D I'm gathering?. Pick simple models to generate at first.

 

The data structure for A:M files has changed since version 9 (currently now an xml type file I believe). It changed in version 12 or perhaps even earlier (don't remember).

[robcat2075]

Regardless. Wouldn't you need to know the data structure of A:M files and the models in particular as well, in order to create any fancy-dancy models?

 

The attractiveness of this Python plugin is that it adds a number of highlevel commands for A:M mesh creation, so you don't need to create the A:M data structure, you really just need to place splines in XYZ space

[KingVidiot]

Exactly Rob, well put. Now if I can just get the damn thing to work.

[NancyGormezano]

Regardless. Wouldn't you need to know the data structure of A:M files and the models in particular as well, in order to create any fancy-dancy models?

 

The attractiveness of this Python plugin is that it adds a number of highlevel commands for A:M mesh creation, so you don't need to create the A:M data structure, you really just need to place splines in XYZ space

 

Well yes, however when I look at the A:M model mesh data structure it looks to me like one could quickly generate a model ie xyz spline data (via math functions in python) if one knew just the basic syntax structure for defining a spline (sequence of vertices/cps). If one is just wanting to show one's expertise in python, one doesn't have to give it colors, worry about normals etc etc. It appears to me that A:M can take the most minimal of data and then fill in the blanks. Here is a stripped down 8 patch sphere. I took one of A:M's primitives, got rid of everything but the spline data in a text editor, and it appears A:M can still read it in and display it. Everything that is not bolded could be boilerplate. Only spline data needs to be generated I suspect. Of course with a more complicated structure, it might not be so easy. But I suspect one could use A:M to just display the model in spline mode (no shaded faces) - just to show the cps were generated.

 

However, Wishing Good luck to KingVidiot in getting the plugin to work in version 9!

 

ProductVersion=17

Release=17.0 PC

InstanceCropStyle=InsteadOfCache

9 1 25 7 0 0 1.1 0 0 1.1

9 1 26 11 0 0 2 0 0 2

9 1 27 15 0 0 1.1 0 0 1.1

9 1 22 6 0 0 1.1 0 0 1.1

9 1 23 10 0 0 2 0 0 2

9 1 24 14 0 0 1.1 0 0 1.1

9 1 19 5 0 0 1.1 0 0 1.1

9 1 20 9 0 0 2 0 0 2

9 1 21 13 0 0 1.1 0 0 1.1

9 1 16 4 0 0 1.1 0 0 1.1

9 1 17 8 0 0 2 0 0 2

9 1 18 12 0 0 1.1 0 0 1.1

9 0 12 0.024704 -24.704 0 0 0 1.67392 0 0 1.67392

9 0 13 -1.07984e-009 -24.704 0.024704 0 0 1.67392 0 0 1.67392

9 0 14 -0.024704 -24.704 -2.15969e-009 0 0 1.67392 0 0 1.67392

13 0 15 2.94593e-010 -24.704 -0.024704 0 0 1.67392 0 0 1.67392

9 0 8 24.704 0 0 0 0 1.67392 0 0 1.67392

9 0 9 -1.07985e-006 0 24.704 0 0 1.67392 0 0 1.67392

9 0 10 -24.704 0 -2.15969e-006 0 0 1.67392 0 0 1.67392

13 0 11 2.94593e-007 0 -24.704 0 0 1.67392 0 0 1.67392

9 0 4 0.024704 24.704 0 0 0 1.67392 0 0 1.67392

9 0 5 -1.07984e-009 24.704 0.024704 0 0 1.67392 0 0 1.67392

9 0 6 -0.024704 24.704 -2.15969e-009 0 0 1.67392 0 0 1.67392

13 0 7 2.94593e-010 24.704 -0.024704 0 0 1.67392 0 0 1.67392

LastModifiedBy=Nancy Gormezano

FileInfoPos=1993

 

And with a little more hacking and poking around, it is my guess that one can figure out the syntax used in A:M's cp/spline data structure. And it might even be available, since others have messed with A:M's structures.

Edited December 2, 2012 by NancyGormezano

[robcat2075]

Well yes, however when I look at the A:M model mesh data structure it looks to me like one could quickly generate a model ...

 

I hereby nominate Nancy

[NancyGormezano]

Well yes, however when I look at the A:M model mesh data structure it looks to me like one could quickly generate a model ...

 

I hereby nominate Nancy

 

I repeat myself:

 

Wishing Good luck to KingVidiot in getting the plugin to work in version 9!

[KingVidiot]

Thanks for the luck. I still need a miracle. Now I sound like I'm at a Dead show.

 

Since the plugin was designed for A:M version 9 it should be a "no-brainer" plug-n-play operation. Unfortunately I'm unable to find which version of A:M 9 is the right one since the article posted above and the author's archived website aren't completely clear on that. I'm stuck doing trial and error like I'm doing KT testing. It's too bad that it was never ported to the Mac so I could try it elsewhere.

 

It's not a Windows issue since all my other A:M stuff works fine. I'm even running A:M 8.5 for some other old plugins with no issues. All this stuff still works in Windows 7. Thank goodness I can still use many of Stefan Gross' plugins.

[KingVidiot]

Hey Rodney, let me know if you have a chance to test it with your configuration. I tested Python 2.6.6 and all the A:M 9 versions I could get my hands on.

 

I will upload some free models for everyone generated by the plugin as soon as I get this to work. I even contacted Petr Sorfa for some assistance, but I haven't heard back yet.

[Rodney]

I even contacted Petr Sorfa for some assistance, but I haven't heard back yet.

 

If we could bring Petr's python plugin up to date for current versions, well.. that would be c'est très magnifique.

[robcat2075]

I tried contacting a likely Petr Sorfa on Facebook but never heard back.

 

I'm sure he wouldn't have great interest in updating it himself, but if he could be persuaded to donate the code maybe someone could be recruited.

 

A programmable modeler would be a cool thing. You could make an automatic building or cityscape generator.

[KingVidiot]

Hopefully one of you kind folks can dig out your old A:M 9 and try the Python plugin/manual that is shared in this thread. I need to know what I'm doing wrong.

 

I don't need to use it for a job anymore, but I do want to make some cool mathematical models that I will share with everyone. I got stuff to work in the Python interpreter of Poser, but I really want to do this with Hash patches not polygons.

 

It would be a great X-mas gift to me, and in return I'll gift all of you with cool and wacky models for your projects.

 

Please please please...

[jakerupert]

You will have to take into account, that the A:M 9 release was the most unstable release ever, if I remember correctly.

Luckily these days are far past gone now.

(I had more then one unfriendly conversation with Mr. sappington in that time on the old e-mail list)

[Fuchur]

You will have to take into account, that the A:M 9 release was the most unstable release ever, if I remember correctly.

Luckily these days are far past gone now.

(I had more then one unfriendly conversation with Mr. sappington in that time on the old e-mail list)

 

Since he is only using A:M v9 for the plugin and other than that a newer version this should be okay...

Since v10 there has never been such a version like 9.0 or 9.5 again and especially since v15-16 A:M is really working very stable for me...

 

I never had v9 (only v8.0 and than v10-17) I can not test this... otherwise I would.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[robcat2075]

I recall a conversation with Martin where he said v9 was never supposed to be released, it was just a private version that added some features for that game studio.

 

I wonder what the disk for it looks like? I must have had it at one point.

[johnl3d]

I am thinking it is the 2001 release with Kitty Kat but will check later

[robcat2075]

I found my KeeKat CD and it runs v9.0q but the script plugin still doesn't appear in the wizards. Quite a mystery.

[NancyGormezano]

I have used every version of A:M since 7.1 EXCEPT the version 9-9.5 series. Those releases were responsible for one of biggest mass exodus's from A:M.

 

IIRC, Hash offered all those caught in the version 9 kerfuffle (who hadn't been too obusive), the next version 10, free of charge. IMO, Version 9 is better off left dead & buried.

[itsjustme]

I have v9.5 somewhere, I think. Didn't it have Petey and Jaydee on the disc...or was that just TAOM?

[KingVidiot]

The CD is Petey and Jaydee. The latest version I have right now is v.11 (2005) and on startup it says the plugin is incompatible.

So any one that has a little time to help me figure out which version between 9 or 10 work with the plugin will reap the rewards with some cool models and a hearty thank you. I'll post the models anyway, but karma is also good.

 

I didn't know that v.9 was so hated. I'm only using it since I don't have v.10 to try and the original article/plugin author mentioned v.9 in the procedure. Thanks for the feedback so far. I don't want to be stuck using Maya or Poser to make my Python scripted models. Please help me fight-off those damn polygons.

[johnl3d]

installed petey and jaydee which is am2002 version 9.0f no plug in or if adding plug in not not coming up as choice in model window and Kitty Kat is 8.5 same results has to be some version inbetween

[robcat2075]

installed petey and jaydee which is am2002 version 9.0f no plug in or if adding plug in not not coming up as choice in model window and Kitty Kat is 8.5 same results has to be some version inbetween

 

Are you sure that's 9.0?

 

My Petey and Jaydee disc installs 9.5l, not 9.0

 

As far as I can tell, there is no CD that actually has 9.0 on it.

 

My KeeKat CD installs v8.5 and My Petey and Jaydee disc installs v9.5

[johnl3d]

 

 

 

this is what I saw

[robcat2075]

How interesting.

 

I'm sure I tried that Python thing once and got something out of it. I wonder why it doesn't work now?

[itsjustme]

Okay, here's the results of a bunch of hammering on this.

 

I found my Petey and Jaydee disc, loaded v9.5e from the Hash FTP, installed Python and did everything I could think of to get the Python plugin made by Petr Sorfa to work...couldn't get it to show up on a menu.

 

However, I tried Gremlinscript and it worked without a hitch in v16b (32bit)...maybe that will be workable for you.

 

Sorry about the video...it's an AVI. I have to do some more tweaking to this computer to get a decent Quicktime (my screen capture is kinda screwy too).

 

Hope that helps.

gremlin_example.zip

[Rodney]

I remember Gremlinscript!

 

Great find! And that it works in current releases... most excellent.

[itsjustme]

I tweaked my capturing and editing software for the relatively new computer and went with an .mp4 (using Handbrake) since Quicktime Pro wasn't cooperating as well in the 64bit Win7 OS...still some issues to be worked out on my end.

 

Here's another video with another script running.

gremlin_example_b.mp4

[Rodney]

Here's my first foray into Gremlinscripting in v17d:

 

On the left is a spiral staircase generated by the original script.

On the right I've changed changed "360" to "720" for the Y Rotation.

 

Am I a programmer yet?

 

Another cool tool in the arsenal.

We'll have to set up a forum area to share Gremlin Scripts.

 

It should be noted that Gremlin Script is pretty limited in what it can create.

For the most part you are limit to creating Grids, Cubes and Cylinders.

Still, I'm sure some really cool things can be made with those.

[Rodney]

For those interested the original discussion on Gremlin Script can be found here:

 

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3025

[Rodney]

That old discussion has reminded me of Chris Price's PERL SDK wherein he was programatically drawing splines in A:M.

 

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11627

[robcat2075]

Gremlinscript... I had no recollection of that!

[KingVidiot]

Gremlinscript... I had no recollection of that!

 

Damn, it's a shame all the great minds couldn't get the Python plugin to work. The big appeal is all of the mathematical and other strange models that are possible.

 

However I'm excited to see Gremlinscript and the Perl tool as well. More stuff to play with, even if they aren't as fancy.

 

Thanks for all of the updates. Hopefully I can find something as fancy as the Python plugin going forward, or I'll just be stuck using the Maya or Poser versions of Python that I have right now.