Video as a decal

[Glider]

I am trying to animate an item that has moving video on it within the animation.

 

Plan 'A' is to have a television in the background.

 

I have tried to use one of my previous animations as a decal. I can import it, I can apply it (although it is a blank image at time of application) and then it's lost. Still shows up in the image folder in the decal area but doesn't show up rendered or in choreography. Ideas?

 

Plan 'B' is to build a movie projector in an animation. Thorough the manuals, It would seem I can just import a video and use it as a light gel, but I am running into the same issue: I can import it to the image file, even adjust/crop etc. But nothing shows up rendered or in a choreography.

 

 

I have worked on this for a while and may just be misssing something simple. Would appreciate any advice!

 

Thanks in advance.

 

T.

[John Bigboote]

SOUNDS like you might be importing Quicktime, which A:M can choke on depending on the version of QT and the compression schemes you may or may not have installed on your system. The WORKAROUND... convert your QT to a targa sequence (.tga files) or one of the other image types that V15 accepts like .png or .jpeg...

 

A:M can be used to do the conversion. RTclik on the movie in the image folder and choose 'export'...

[largento]

I just did this the for the first time over the weekend. (I'm using it to do the fire in a fireplace.) I may be covering stuff you know, but I had to dig to find out some of this stuff. :-)

 

1) I brought in my movie as an image sequence.

 

2) I made a 1-patch model and applied the movie as a decal.

 

3) I then right-clicked on the model and selected New->Pose->Percentage. This opened up a new relationship window.

 

4)I set it to 0%.

 

5) In the Project Workspace, I found the decal folder for the model, opened it all the way down to the movie in the image folder. In the properties, I set the frame to the first frame.

 

6) I then went to 100%

 

7) ...and set the frame of the movie to the last frame.

 

8) I then named the pose ("movie control" is what I think I used, it can be what you like.)

 

9) Then I brought it into my choreography and used the pose slider to set keys for the pose slider. 0% at the beginning, 100% at the end.

 

10) I rendered the movie and the frames of the embedded movie played out between the key frames.

 

I may not have explained this very well. The part that I was missing was setting up the pose slider.

[Glider]

Seems like good advice on both counts, but no luck yet.

 

As for the conversion method:

 

I have converted a short (3 second) animation to jpeg. This leaves me with 90 separate images. Will I need to apply each of these per frame (Holy Time consuming batman!!)

 

As for the pose slider method:

 

I have the animations rendered in quicktime. Were you working with a quicktime file as well? I can't seem to get anything workable so far and followed the instructions (I think). Will keep tinkering or re-trying.....

 

Thanks again, I am continually amazed by the collective skill on this forum.

 

Any good reference books you folks could recommend?

 

 

T.

[johnl3d]

after importing the sequence you apply as a decal the first image in the chor/action the sequence should change per frame

[Sacman]

You might be missing the little option button in the bottom left of the import box. You have to check it to import a series of images as an animation.

 

Then follow the instructions above.

 

Wade

[HomeSlice]

are your images named sequentially?

image_000.jpg, image_001.jpg, image_002.jpg etc.

 

Make sure you choose "import as image sequence", then pick the first image in the sequence, then hit "open" or whatever the button in the file browser window says.

[Glider]

Seem to have tried all that... will post it as a quick and easy project: Simple frame, and simple animation sequence to be added as a decal. I'll whip something up pronto and hopefully one of you can spot my error.

 

As with all of these little problems, once they get under your skin..........

 

T.

[Glider]

Here's a 2 minute project:

 

I have a simple TV and in the groups I am picking 'screen' and hiding out the rest. I'm then trying to use the 'nutlight' animation and use it as a decal on the screen.

 

As I go to apply it, it is invisible and I can't seem to ever get it up and running.

 

Any help is greatly appreciated....

 

 

T.

TVTrial.prj

[robcat2075]

That prj includes neither the movie for the decal nor the TV model.

[Glider]

Hmmm..... I'm rendering something right now but will sort this out as soon as I'm done.......

 

T.

[number]

I have some more experience w/ video editing and compositing programs, so I'd offer an alternative method.

 

If the shot is static and you have the TV in the background, then using a green screen for the tv screen could achieve what you want.

 

1. You could use a flat shaded green color for the screen. (if the screen is shaded, then you will have problems w/ the chromakeying).

2. Import the image sequence or movie into a video program that supports keying (even adobe premiere elements does this).

3. Import your video

4. use a chromakey to replace with your video feed.

 

The nice thing about this method, is that this is independent of the rendering. If you move a character in front of the TV screen, then you create a natural mask.

 

If you're shot is moving, you can still map the screen in the composite, but this is definitely more work. After Effects or Combustion could be used the shear the image and change the shape.

 

I'll try this at home and post results for the simple test. I want to do this sort of effect, anyway.

 

Sorry if this sounds way off base or overly complicated.

[robcat2075]

A previous thread on the topic

 

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?s=&am...st&p=178322

[Gerry]

Number's method isn't the most intuitive. (Sorry dude!) You should be able to follow some/all of the above advice and get results, but there are a lot of settings and stuff to be aware of. If I could suggest just uploading the QT mov and let me/us try applying it in some quicky prj. I'm game to try.

 

QT files are extremely usable, but it can depend on how the QT file was created/compressed. I've only used TGA files in a very limited way for animated decals but they work well too. It can seem overwhelming importing hundreds of TGA's into a prj, but A:M can handle it.

[number]

Fair enough, Gerry.

 

Intuition is based off of what you have experience in.

 

I'm interested in the other methods outlined here that work internally to AM.

[Gerry]

Well, animated decals in AM are a pretty straightforward (but not simple!) process that work best with either .mov's or tga's, but I've been bitten in the butt before when I forgot a step here or there.

 

EDIT: another thing to realize ( I think this was stated above) is that once the decal image is placed, it should run by default frame-for-frame with the animation unless you specify otherwise. Say the decal starts at frame 200 of the choreography. You can set frame 1 at frame 200, and if you want it to be a still image for one second, set a second keyframe for frame 1 at frame 230, then jump to frame 12, or skip back and forth.

[number]

OK, got my experiment w/ chroma keying to work.

 

I created a tv model and a green screen model and added to choreography. I set the screen to flat shaded and rendered. I imported the render and a test clip in Sony Vegas Pro. I chroma keyed the green screen (very easy w/ the flat shading) with test video as the next layer of video. Old fashioned green screen results! I can now easily replace the "TV Clip" with any other sequence of images or video files.

 

 

 

See still image for the render:

 

 

Final, composited and keyed results:

 

green_screen_test.mov

 

 

Model TV and Green Screen included.

 

TV.mdl My_TV_Green_Screen.mdl

 

 

I still need to work through the other referenced methods as these can be very powerful by being a decal on a 3d object.

[largento]

The big downside to doing it the green screen way, is that you've got to keep the angle flat. If you move the camera, the TV image won't match the angle... and that will really show up if you you are moving the camera during the shot.

 

For the shot I was needing this for (fire in a fireplace), I was using depth of field so that the background was out of focus and then in focus. Attempting to blur the insert video (and then animate the blur to match the dof change) to match the footage wouldn't have been an easy thing to do.

[number]

Alright, this has been fun.

 

I was able to follow the image sequence example outlined in Robcat's post and in this thread. I really like the results for creating this all in AM.

 

It would be nice to get the TV image to project, but that is for another day.

 

I set up a lamp in front of the tv to simulate the glow. I set the TV screen to have the glow attribute.

 

animated_tv_try_1.mov

[largento]

That's looks really good! The glow is a really nice touch!

[Rodney]

Very nice effect!

 

I like the in-A:M version much better.

You have more control of the final image that way and the difference really shows.

The glow is a nice addition.

 

I can see benefits to producing the masking out of the TV screen with your other technique.

If for instance, you are trying to set up a mask for use with other programs to quickly replace the TV screen without rerendering everything over and over again or building fancy webpages (PNG images with transparency) then that could be an effective way to go. But that's a stretch.

 

In most projects, its so much easier and effective just to add the images in with A:M itself.

 

Now that you've got that aspect down... keep experimenting with image sequences in A:M.

You'll be amazed at all the options available.

[Gerry]

This is a really interesting experiment and I can see where it would have its uses. Once you get the hang of doing it all in AM you'll see how flexible it can be.

 

I've got this animation I did for a slot machine company on my website at http://www.mooneyart.com/three_d/movies/isdgames.mov where ALL the game screens and screen animations were in one humongous QuickTime mov, and for each machine I set the animation to play just those frames that that game needed. As it turned out it got a *little* complicated, and as I recall I had a good reason at the time for doing it that way (which I can't recall), but what was amazing to me was that is was possible at all!

[NancyGormezano]

It would be nice to get the TV image to project, but that is for another day.

 

That turned out nicely -

 

You can sorta do a projection of an image by adding a rotoscope to a klieg type light - however it won't be a rectangular shape projection, but an elipsoid shape (depending on angle that cone of light intersects the plane).

 

But my guess is that you might be able to fake it some by positioning the light (with animated rotoscope) behind a rectangular opening in a "fake double wall", but not in view of the camera. Have not tried it - so I'm not sure.

[Glider]

Well, as the person responsible for starting this tangent, I figured I'd write that I solved the problem......sort of:

 

 

I managed to get it to work as a decal on the TV screen (and subsequently as a light gel which makes for a kind of cool 'drive-in movie' if you use a volumetric light as the source; small demo photo to follow)

 

It must be a quicktime issue as the only way I can make it work is a as a series of TGA images ....as was suggested, with a slight hitch:

 

It seems it has to be converted prior to A:M seeing it.

 

I can import a .mov file, but A:M shows it as a transparent image when it is applied as a decal. I attempted to follow the advice to export it out of A:M from .mov to TGA, JPEG, etc. (in essence, using A:M as my converter) but for some reason it sends it out as a series of purely black images (no detail at all, just black) or other files, purely white (at least it's an equal opportunity error!) I was using this series of (A:M converted) images and trying to get them to animate. No luck.

 

It would seem that I'll need to take a third party converter and change any video I have to a series of individual images, and import the entire series of images into A:M. Tedious, but it gave the end result I was looking for. For now, I am only using my own animations as videos, and have the option of rendering them to file as TGA files in the first place.

 

Anyone got an cleaner method to bring in mass amounts of individual images (lets say, 4 minutes worth at 30 fps?) Now I'm importing them as a series of images, and then loading them one at a time into an individual folder, and seeing my youth pass before my eyes.

 

 

If anyone has been successful at getting .mov decals to work after simply being applied, I'd love to hear about it. All the advice previously noted that I tried works.....once I get away from quicktime movies. Maybe I need to learn a little more about quicktime, or invest in QT pro?

 

I'm on a mac if that makes any difference.

 

 

 

Very interesting solutions posed here, many WELL above my ability at this point but something to shoot for. Now if I can get my A:M to stop needing a hide/unhide to allow some saving functions, I'm on my way!!

 

 

Grateful and impressed,

 

T.