Parlo Posted July 10, 2004 Posted July 10, 2004 I've been having alot of fun with the Ball-man kindly modelled and supplied by Pesto - Here I've done a very short little run and stop test with him (though I'm still not totally happy with the "catch"), and am gonna try and do one of these every week to keep my eye in. QT - Sorenson3 - 176Kb Any crits would be more than welcome... Embrace Ball Chap! Get in tune with your inner orb! Quote
Dagooos Posted July 10, 2004 Posted July 10, 2004 Nice smooth run even threw in a little squash & stretch nice touch Quote
ZachBG Posted July 10, 2004 Posted July 10, 2004 Awwww, just makes me wanna HUG him! Or hit him over a volleyball net. I often have trouble distinguishing those two. Quote
mtpeak2 Posted July 10, 2004 Posted July 10, 2004 Looks good, how about a little slide at the end. The floor looks slick for a metalic character to stop in its tracks. Quote
mootsger Posted July 14, 2004 Posted July 14, 2004 THERES BALLS EVERYWHERE! Just though I'd keep the same model in the same post. I had to re-rig him w/ the TSM for v8.5. Anyone who needs him let me know. Anyway...just a quick little walk cycle. Download it to loop it. QT MP4 walk2 Quote
Parlo Posted July 14, 2004 Author Posted July 14, 2004 nice walk moots! Though I haven't got the time at the moment to push this chap to the limit, I've made another little rig tweak. I realised that having the upper body bone in the centre of the ball was making it harder to get good motion from it. So I moved it! This gives a much better point of rotation... and allows you to really suggest pelvic movement. Quote
Parlo Posted July 14, 2004 Author Posted July 14, 2004 Awwww, just makes me wanna HUG him! Or hit him over a volleyball net. I often have trouble distinguishing those two. ooohhh, you've made Ball Chap sad. Thanks for the comments guys. I'll post new bits and pieces when they're done. Ball chap will ride again! Quote
mootsger Posted July 14, 2004 Posted July 14, 2004 Absolutely, I placed the UB bone in the same position. I placed Spine1 at the center and parented from that is a third bone (that has the sphere geom) back at the UB positon for the squetch control. I wanted the squetch to originate from the hip so legs would "stay attached" better. I going to go back in and add a twist spine for each cross section, although it won't show up without any color difference. Quote
Parlo Posted July 19, 2004 Author Posted July 19, 2004 ...another spare-time "Ball Chap" test... this one is a little less perky. QT - Sorenson 3 - 900k Quote
jfirestine Posted July 19, 2004 Posted July 19, 2004 Nice animation work! Can you give us more information on how you lit your scene? Number of lights, types, etc. I really like the look! Thanks, Joseph Quote
Parlo Posted July 19, 2004 Author Posted July 19, 2004 Nice animation work! Can you give us more information on how you lit your scene? Number of lights, types, etc. Thanks I used soft reflections for the first time and that really helped give it the look it's got. Go here for info on v11's soft reflections. Lighting wise there are 4 lights: One off-white Klieg Key light, from the far left @ 120%, supplying the shadow (z buffered, high rez but softness of only 3%) and specular. This light is very low to the ground plane so that it creates those long shadows. The rest are all in the Ball Chap's light list only - 1 purple Sun fill light, from the far right @ 65%, no shadows or specular 1 orange Klieg, from behind the camera @50%, no shadows or specular 1 light blue Sun, aiming directly up from under the ground plane @70%, no shadows or specular - this gives a nice amount of "ground bounce" light under the ball The icing on the cake is an edge gradient material on the ball that only effects the ambience of the surface. This means that the outer edge is @100% ambience. This gives it that backlit look. Quote
ZachBG Posted July 19, 2004 Posted July 19, 2004 ...another spare-time "Ball Chap" test... this one is a little less perky. QT - Sorenson 3 - 900k Nice! He looks like he's in the same mood as me... Quote
JTalbotski Posted July 19, 2004 Posted July 19, 2004 Wow, Sam! Great motion and great emotion! It read very well. I wanted to see more. Jim Quote
Pengy Posted July 19, 2004 Posted July 19, 2004 That turned out great Parlo! Like I said it is amazing to see the emotion and character that can be portrayed from a simple ball with legs. to me the scene conveys what it feels like when you think you hear the FedEx truck coming with your A:M update and it turns out not to be Quote
Admin Rodney Posted July 19, 2004 Admin Posted July 19, 2004 Finally got back into a computer that can view movies.... (yah!) Most excellent work Parlo! You've really got some character going there. And the environment, color, and lighting really add a lot. Keep it going! Quote
Parlo Posted July 20, 2004 Author Posted July 20, 2004 Thanks guys! - I did consider doing more with the shot but didn't want to get bogged down by what was just meant to be a short exercise (I did that with the War of the Worlds clip and, though it has it's moments, I've resigned that one to the "I learned a lot but now I can't bear to look at it" part of my hard drive). The amount of stuff i've learnt from moving this guy around has been immense... and I still like looking at it. Double word score! If Ball chap is going to do anything else, I think that there may well be more than one of him and they'll be a lot more chipper! Soon, but I've got to let sleep back in for a while first. Quote
JBarrett Posted July 20, 2004 Posted July 20, 2004 Sweeeeeet stuff there, Sam! You're really capturing the emotion well. I especially love the sad clip...incredibly well done! Inspiring! Woohoo! Quote
Parlo Posted July 20, 2004 Author Posted July 20, 2004 Thanks Justin! There's nothing like a WOOO HOOO to give that feeling of a job well done. If only there were more WOOO HOOOs in the day, the world would be a better place! WOOO HOOO Quote
modernhorse Posted July 20, 2004 Posted July 20, 2004 Let me add another Woo hoo on that one Parlo ! Nice work. Doug Quote
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 20, 2004 Hash Fellow Posted July 20, 2004 Hey, that moves wonderfully well! How much time was the "spare-time"? Quote
Parlo Posted July 20, 2004 Author Posted July 20, 2004 Thanks again guys! Rob - I'd say 12 hours in 6 shifts of 2. This isn't that accurate of course cause the "go away-come back" nature of that, means that there's a lot of think time inbetween that you wouldn't get doing it straight through. I was much stricter with myself this time in terms of what I laid in on each pass. That helped me manage it in such short chunks Quote
JohnArtbox Posted July 20, 2004 Posted July 20, 2004 Great work sam. love the emotion you were able to get from such a simple character Quote
Parlo Posted August 7, 2004 Author Posted August 7, 2004 Thanks for the plethora of Wooo Hooos. I've rediscovered arms (and torsos, heads, hands and fingers). Thought that I'd here to keep the clutter to minimum. New clip with an adapted version of the "Proxy-Boy" model. All that's left to do is a bit of tidy up and strengthening some poses. I've been playing around with different combinations of overlaps and breakdowns - there's so much micro detail to be had tweaking these. All crits welcome. Bring 'em on. QT - sorenson3 - 900kb Quote
JBarrett Posted August 7, 2004 Posted August 7, 2004 Looking great so far! A few things to think about... Not sure if you're intentionally going for a caricatured walk, but for a more natural walk, the hip tilt should be reversed, with the side over the planted foot tilting higher than the side over the passing foot. Consider reducing the gap between his two main reaction poses after he sees the gap. It feels a little too forced; i.e. "look at me, I'm reacting", especially compared to a lot of his other movement, which feels much more fluid and natural. The quick backward step after he reacts to the gap has an odd feeling to it. The bouce, pace, and final pose make it feel kinda feminine, whereas most of his other moves have a clearly masculine flavor. Try reducing the bounce level, and also varying the pace of that move. Perhaps he makes the steps a little quicker, but the body move into the final pose is more long and drawn out, with lots of ease on the end. After backing up, his wide back-and-forth look feels a tad redundant, considering he'd already done that when originally reacting to the gap. Consider something more subtle. Even though he doesn't have any eyes to indicate more specific direction, you might be able to give the *impression* of an eye dart by using a very subtle head turn. This could also blend in with his cautious advance toward the gap, which would *really* give it some nice flavor. Some of the holds are a too solid. Hopefully smoothing these out is on your list of thing to tidy up. If not, consider adding it. The arms could especially use a bit more fluidity and flexibility in many places. They feel a tad stiff in spots. Really solid work so far, Sam! Keep at it! Woohoo! Quote
Parlo Posted August 7, 2004 Author Posted August 7, 2004 Justin - wow. Those are specific! I've always been confused over the tilt of the hips. Richard Williams says "normally the belt line is down with the foot that is down and up with the foot that is up" - which has only made my brain hurt more. The push from the back foot, and the weight of the passing foot leads me to think that you've hit a nail on the head. Anyhow. I've done some alterations based on what you've suggested - mainly to see whether or not I've sorted the hips. The arms, hands and fingers are yet to be really broken up, but i've shifted those skewed hips, and revisited alot of the timing - (organised keyframing all the way baby!) It's quite a bit shorter now... which is a blessing. I'm going to take apart the back-steps when I next get a chance. Thanks for the great critique! I'm tempted to woo hoo, but I'll save it for when the clips finished. QT - Sorenson3 - 900kb Quote
JBarrett Posted August 7, 2004 Posted August 7, 2004 The odd thing is that Williams' "belt line" comment contradicts the illustration he made just one page before (the weight shift example on page 146). Re: the hip issue, all I know is from personal observation of my own walk, which meshes with the weight shift illustrations. It's a similar balance issue to when you're standing with your weight primarily shifted over one leg. The weight-bearing leg is straighter, with the pelvis tilted up on that side. The relaxed leg is bent, in part because the pelvis is lower on that side. It all depends on the look you're going for, though. If you want to be realistic about it, then the pg 146 weight shift guide in Williams' book is a good example. If you want to break away from tradition and come up with something different, feel free to break the rules and switch the weight the other way. I was just suggesting the more realistic approach since (as stated before) a lot of the rest of your motion was fairly realistic in its approach Anyway, it's lookin' better! Keep at it! Quote
Parlo Posted August 7, 2004 Author Posted August 7, 2004 Those 2 pages are confusing - and contraditory. Having walked around alot trying to work it out I've found it easiest to think in terms of the back foot, the pushing foot. It's clearer to think of that foot forcing the pelvis forward and *UP*, than it is focusing on the passing foot. The reverse only happens with a wide and stiff legged scoot - the push of the back foot being applied late and with such force that the pelvis moves up and forward and whips the back leg with it. People don't walk like this... unless they've had a little accident. This is great stuff - I'd become tied to a "method" that, though it works well as stylised motion, isn't accurate. Naughty Williams. Now all I need to do is find that deep heat. Quote
Parlo Posted August 9, 2004 Author Posted August 9, 2004 Ok, spent some time on it today and gave it another push. It's got to the stage where I can't really "see it" anymore. That might be a good thing. QT - sorenson3 - 1mb All crits more than welcome. Quote
pequod Posted August 9, 2004 Posted August 9, 2004 Parlo, it looks VERY accomplished to me. I really like the way you did the initial surprise movement, I must remember that for later use. Here are two arbitrary crits: Have a little more emotional contrast between the first and second walks in terms of pace maybe. When he leans over to view the gap, lift and tilt his hips forward. In other words, get the whole body stretching and straining to peer over. Quote
gazzamataz Posted August 9, 2004 Posted August 9, 2004 Oh BIG DOGS!!! All this excellent animation is depressing me... <_ where the hell did you develop these skills parlo from books trial and error watching reference material> Do you storyboard your clips and time the keyframes like Raf Anzovin using dope sheets or do you kinda make it up as you go along and mould it till it looks how you want it? Or do you use a camcorder for reference? I imaging you block out the main frames and then use sweeps to build up the motion and tweek and tweek it. I try this but I never seem to get it right - need more practice I guess or just a lack of ability... Anyway, I was feeling a distinct lack of motivation towards my own efforts but you have put that get up and go back in there - INSPIRATIONAL (mind your head don't pop). Go on give us a hint on your work method and I might give you a WHOO HOO! Oh, bugger I just did P.S. I am also amazed at the amount of time you spend on the ball man, so little for such great results. I have spent more time than that and don't get near what I'd like... Again, lack of ability I suppose P.P.S Do you do all these doodles in your spare time and the rest of the time proper work? That must be a bit of a killer stuck in front of a computer nearly all day everyday... Quote
JBarrett Posted August 9, 2004 Posted August 9, 2004 Looking better, esp. on the hip movement. A few more notes... The two holds on his "surprise" reaction are still very stiff. Loosen/soften them up a touch. During his opening walk, his left arm looks like it's going through the left leg. Speaking of arms, the looseness of the arms during the opening walk is getting better. Some other parts still have the arms feeling too stiff, though. Another arm note. As he's cautiously advancing toward the gap, his right arm is getting lost behind his body, with only the fingers showing up below his butt a few times. Try cheating the arm a little more into view for a little better silhouette during that segment. As that right arm comes back into view before he leans over the edge, the wrist and fingers snap into position a bit too solidly. Ease into those positions more smoothly. This is really turning into a sharp piece, Sam. Add another "Woohoo!" to your collection. Quote
Parlo Posted August 10, 2004 Author Posted August 10, 2004 I managed to spend a bit of time on him tonight and have tweaked further. I still want to revisit the final walk-off. It's not quite reading how I want it to, and there is still some hints of the robot in those darn arms.... QT - Sorenson3 - 1mb Justin - Awesome notes! I've tried to address all of them. I did a straight ahead pass on each arm, putting some subtle weight and flex in there. This is such an eye opener for arm animation - the need to keep breaking the joints broken etc. I might have gone too far in the other direction, but I broke the curse.. and that's the charm. Pequod - Thanks! I've tried to push the lean further, it might need some more. It's a hard line to draw. I'm going to revisit the walk away in my final pass/session.. adjust the rhythm slighty.. we'll see. Gazz - I've fallen over so many times, maybe I'm starting to get an idea of what this stuff is all about. These tests are a purely personal thing (but showreel fodder too so they do count as "work" in that respect). Where do I find the time? Sleep is overrated, it gets in the way of most fun pursuits and getting up afterwards sucks! I suppose you could say that I've got an addictive personality, and once I started getting results caffeine took a back seat to the pure rush that is "making things move". I act it all out. Catching myself unaware is hard, but I try to act it out on-the-fly without thinking about it. If you put too much thought into acting it out you can lead yourself to believe that almost any bad motion feels right. This has been a real sticking point for me in the past.. and still is. I use Keith Lango's "organised-keyframing" method - check out his website - and do alot of fine tuning in the channel view. The key to the channel view is getting used to what those lines mean in different situations, and lots of 'sampling' inbetweens and pushing them around. I'm flattered that you find this stuff inspirational - I get such a buzz out of seeing other people's stuff too. That's one of the many odd things about animation.. it's a very solitary thing, but it also ignites such a strong camaraderie. Quote
shaunf Posted August 10, 2004 Posted August 10, 2004 Great stuff Sam. Its really conveys the guys irritation at not being able get past. Just a thought, as he's walking away, it might emphasise him thinking about his other options about getting across the gap by perhaps have him rub the back of his neck/head with his left hand rather than holding it half cocked (which also works well too BTW). Really terrific Sam! Quote
gazzamataz Posted August 10, 2004 Posted August 10, 2004 Actually Sam being scared of heights myself (but not flying, unusually) I think it would be a nice touch if you made your character shiver when he creeps up to the edge of the path and looks down - because that is exactly what I would do! You have him creeping up VERY carefully then just peering down - a good shock shiver would give the creep added impact and make it look like a real drop. Plus if you added Shauns scratching the head or another shiver as he walks away that would give it a bit extra. Thanks for your tips BTW mate, much appreciated I shall delve into my Lango website. Do you have Jeff Lews CD on animation? Quote
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted August 10, 2004 Hash Fellow Posted August 10, 2004 oooooh... I wish i could do that! Great piece! Quote
Parlo Posted August 11, 2004 Author Posted August 11, 2004 Final version (for now anyhow - I remember the concept of sleep and I wanna give it a try again). Thanks to everyone for their comments, crits, pokes and suggestions. They've really kept me going! A big big thank you. The compression isn't that great on this - and it's larger than I'd like - 2.4mb.. but my eyes are bleary. I might give it another go later. But for now... this is it. QT - Sorenson3 - 2.3mb I'll write more tomorrow... but for now.. where did I put that pillow? Quote
Admin Rodney Posted August 11, 2004 Admin Posted August 11, 2004 Bravo! Encore! Encore! I see you've even adjusted the lighting. Jolly good show and superb detail throughout! Rodney Quote
JohnArtbox Posted August 11, 2004 Posted August 11, 2004 Sleep when you're dead Sam...We wan't more animation nailed it. Quote
JBarrett Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 Take a well-deserved rest, Sam. Really sweet work on this little clip! 3... 2... 1... WOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO! Quote
Parlo Posted August 12, 2004 Author Posted August 12, 2004 WOOO HOOO. I've address the size issue, and used a difference kinda compression - I've also tweaked the lighting and shifted a couple of keyframes. This makes it the final version period. No more. Put down the mouse and move away from the keyboard.... QT - MPEG4 - 1.8mb There'll be more from this guy at a later date. I think he might even have another go at that gap! Quote
steve392 Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 can't get to see this one ,qt says it needs a plug in thats not avialable on the site ,ahh would love to see it Quote
Parlo Posted August 12, 2004 Author Posted August 12, 2004 sorry about that - I've made a sorenson3 version too. This shouldn't cause any probs - QT - Sorenson3 - 1.8mb Quote
steve392 Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 Thank's Sam but still can't see it ,yet the sorenson 3 you done a few days ago worked fine for me ,must be me somewhere ,will look into it ,cheers Quote
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