Superman....PJC returns

[patrick_j_clarke]

Hey everyone...long time no pictures.

 

I've been working on a new Superman model and it's far enough along to start sharing.

 

This model started life as Jim Talbot's Superman model from the "Kingdom Come" series that he gave away years ago to the 3D comic collective website. Jim did such an awesome job I decided to use his model as a base for a "regular" version of the character.

 

I still have LOTS of work to do, but I'm liking the progress so far.

 

So, Jim, thanks for making such a cool model, I hope you don't mind my "Hashtic Surgery".

 

Jim's is on the left, mine is on the right. Rendered AO in v13.

 

 

BIG version of PJC SUPES

 

Comments welcome,

 

- pjc

[Leo73]

thats a great model you have going there. I am not really a Superman fan but its still a great model.

[martin]

Good to see you back in form, Patrick. Jim has a modern Superman too... I wonder if it's still around someplace?

[Stuart Rogers]

With those greying temples, Jim's looks more like Superman's dad! I like the bodywork you've done - those cloth wrinkles on the hips are quite convincing. Not sure about the mouth - I preferred Jim's.

[jon]

With those greying temples, Jim's looks more like Superman's dad!

 

jeesh.... everyone knows superman's dad is marlon brando.

 

heres more info on the great series 'kingdom come'.

 

-jon

[3DArtZ]

Hmmm, this looks interesting.....

I know that this is very early on in your reworking of the model.... but there are some real

size issues that I hope you look into.... The first thing is that the head is super tiny compared to the

width of the torso/body.

His expression is that of unexpectedly sitting on something pointy:)

But I do know you are early on in the work and will make everything nice:)

 

Looking forward to updates!

 

Mike Fitz

www.3dartz.com

[patrick_j_clarke]

yeah, his lips/mouth are messed up right now, and I have some proportion issues, but all to be worked on soon!

 

I am going to model the "S" logo instead of a decal and the boots...I'm gonna try to make those more "real". I never likes the "booty" thing, even when Alex Ross does it.

 

Would love to see Jim's modern Supes too, I wonder if he'll stop by?

 

Mike, didn't you do a Superman as well? Have any full body pix of him? Would love to see them if you do.

 

- pjc

[JTalbotski]

Hi Patrick,

 

Glad you can use the model!

Although I agree about the mouth, your transformation look good.

 

Either I'm getting too old or Martin must have me confused with someone else about the modern Superman.

 

Edit: I found some superhero models that Alain made around the same time. His Superman was the modern version.

 

Jim

[martin]

Edit: I found some superhero models that Alain made around the same time. His Superman was the modern version.

We were using Alain's model for "Shazam." It was Jeff Bunker who made the modern Superman, (we don't have his model).

 

There are several other superhero models that are going to be on the "Extras II" DVD, i.e. Batman, Wonder Woman, Hulk, etc. If anybody else has some superhero models (Jeff Bolle comes to mind with his Spiderman model), please donate them to "Extras II." The kids just getting into A:M really love the comic book stuff, (me too).

[patrick_j_clarke]

Edit: I found some superhero models that Alain made around the same time. His Superman was the modern version.

We were using Alain's model for "Shazam." It was Jeff Bunker who made the modern Superman, (we don't have his model).

 

There are several other superhero models that are going to be on the "Extras II" DVD, i.e. Batman, Wonder Woman, Hulk, etc. If anybody else has some superhero models (Jeff Bole comes to mind with his Spiderman model), please donate them to "Extras II." The kids just getting into A:M really love the comic book stuff, (me too).

 

 

Do you have any pix of Bunkers Superman? He did the Arni/Captain America too didn't he?

 

- pjc

[martin]

Do you have any pix of Bunkers Superman? He did the Arni/Captain America too didn't he?

I'll have to dig it up but we have a print hanging in the office so I'll scan that if nothing else.

[Zaryin]

It's looking pretty cool so far Patrick. I can't wait to see it after all the tweaking.

 

Martin. I might give my SPider-amn to the DVD, but I haven't decided on that yet. I might want to finish my image with the new one before I give him away. Thanks for remembering me though.

[3DArtZ]

yeah, his lips/mouth are messed up right now, and I have some proportion issues, but all to be worked on soon!

 

I am going to model the "S" logo instead of a decal and the boots...I'm gonna try to make those more "real". I never likes the "booty" thing, even when Alex Ross does it.

 

Would love to see Jim's modern Supes too, I wonder if he'll stop by?

 

Mike, didn't you do a Superman as well? Have any full body pix of him? Would love to see them if you do.

 

- pjc

 

Hey PJC, no I never made a superman.... the closest I came to making a commercial superhero was SpiderMan.... but I stopped after fully modelling the head. Maybe I'll come back to it.....

Anyways, I certainly would like to see all the SuperMan models that are out there in the community....

 

Oh, so PJC, do you think it's easier to start this from the pre-existing model? why not start from scratch?

just curious....

looking foward to the updates!

 

Mike Fitz

www.3dartz.com

[patrick_j_clarke]

It really depends on the build whether or not I'll build from scratch. With humans especially, I'll look at what's available and see if the resculpt is quicker than a total rebuild. And that's really what it comes down to in my book. What's the quickest way to get what I want?

 

I've been doing this for a long time now, and modeling to me now is just a means to an end. If I can resculpt in less time I'll do it. I'm not proud. That being said, I always give credit to the people whose model mine is based on, even if it's unreckonizable in the end.

 

I think two of the most underused models that are free are Lambrina and Dex when dealing with humans. They are light geometry and take a resculpt really well.

 

I understand that the majority of A:M users L-O-V-E to model, that's their kick, but I'd rather spend that time on lighting and posing.

 

Should have an update soon, but with Comic-Con this week who knows how much time I'll have.

 

- pjc

[oakchas]

Funny you mention the booties! In the head on shots on both they almost looks like horse's hooves with red stockings.

 

That was my original thought...I mean, I know they're feet... it just looks like... well, horse's hooves!

 

I agree with you about resculpting.. It certainly makes life easier. And I wonder why so few take advantage, as well.

[patrick_j_clarke]

Cool Website I just found:

 

Superman Costume Comparisons

 

Has a great look at all the different versions...I like the Superman Returns boots.

 

- pjc

[case]

wow holy nice tecture for the costume nice nice nice nice detail

[patrick_j_clarke]

oh yeah...the texture on my supes is a scales Darktree...on Jim's I added the denim DT, but tweaked it so it looked like wool or some heavy cloth of olden times...

 

Did some tweaking of the torso and face last night...looking good...will put up a render soon.

 

- pjc

[martin]

Well, all I could find was a small print we made years ago but I scanned it in for your benefit, Patrick. I hope it helps.

[My Fault]

Holy mackerel Martin, that Superman shot is amazing! Jeff Bunker's AM work blows me away every time I see something from him.

[patrick_j_clarke]

Cool, thanks Martin! I like how Jeff tweaked the Arni/Cap models face to a more "Superman" shape. Great hand texture too! It's great to see all the different tweaks we all do to these icons...

 

Here's my latest update. I spent most of my time on re-proportioning his torso, and I also worked on his lip area. Still plenty to do...

 

 

and an animated GIF of the change...

 

 

...I really need to start work on some proper boots...they're bugging me.

 

- pjc

[martin]

Nice changes. Can you put some motion capture (BVH) data on this guy for an animation like Joe Williamson did on his "Hunter" girl? (Don't try to be cute... use "real" movement... and some Superman theme music.) I think a realistically moving Superman would capture a lot of attention, especially if you've got SimCloth running on the cape. And try some A:M Hair, (Kevin Waldron can give you some pointers.) Let's bring your A:M modeling into the current decade.

[patrick_j_clarke]

I'll bite...where can I find some BVH data? It might be cool to do a nice little animated piece with Supes when I get him done.

 

Here's where I'm at this weekend (after a long Saturday at the SD Comic-Con). I decided to work on the Superman emblem on his chest today. I've ran a couple of emblems through my head, should it be like Superman Returns, or should it be like a silk-screen? I finally decided to make a solid plate area that conforms to Supes chest (almost like puff-paint would) and then use a displacement map to make the emboss.

 

I started off by making an outline of the Superman logo on a copied section of Supes chest (into a new model) and then conformed the spline to the general shape of Superman's chest. I then extruded and tweaked and then stitched the shape closed to form the shield. As an aside: I sure wish A:M had "Project Curves to Surface" like some other programs (or maybe I'm just not aware of the feature if it IS in A:M v13) It would have made coforming the outline spline to Superman's chest a little easier.

 

The displacement and color maps were created from scratch in Adobe Illustrator (I have to see if I can export a 16 bit per channel out of Illustrator for the displacement) and exported to Photosop to make TGA's with Alphas.

 

I had thought about making it all out of geometry, but was I was concerned with posing and having the geometry be unwieldy.

 

I'm gonna half to let this one set for a day or so and will move on to the boots or maybe do some more sculpting around the shoulders before I say yay or nay on this one. But, here's the results of the Sunday, the Supes Emblem day:

 

Shaded Wireframe of Supes Emblem

 

AO Render of Emblem

 

AO Render Full Front

 

Comments, crits, all welcome...

 

- pjc

[KenH]

Good changes on the chest. In the image Martin posted, his pecks seem to be "bulgier" but it might just be the pose.

Is there a crease on his jawline? The AO renders seem patchy on his face.....like you can see the spline boarders.

 

As for conforming, I don't think there's such a feature.....would the surface constraint do it? If not, it's off to AM Reports with you!

[zandoriastudios]

I think that there is a plug-in that will push a spline to conform to a surface. "Conform" I think--seems like it was one of Marcel's

[patrick_j_clarke]

Yeah, I think there may be some creasing going on, but I've also been messing with a 5 o'clock shadow that might need some work...I need to do a turnaround of the face area in AO to see what other things show up that only show up in an AO render.

 

KenH, are you referring to the pec's of Bunkers Superman? That model is more of a body builder type, and I'm really not going to that in my model. Supes is more like a wheat-fed Kansas natural "strong guy".

 

I found Marcel's "conform" plug-in on his site:

http://www.kci-group.com/z/conform.htm

 

I think this is what I need, but will look at it more closely. Thanks for the info!

 

- pjc

[Zaryin]

I think the emblem is looking great. I agree that there's some weird stuff going on with the face here. It just doesn't look "smooth" enough. I love this WIP, Patrick.

[patrick_j_clarke]

Well, last night seemed like I didn't move forward at all, but I think I fixed SOME stuff.

 

Made a 16 bit/per EXR version of the displacement map for supes emblem on his chest, and it's a lot smoother now. I think I still have a little issue at the top of my EXR (I think my gradient is getting cut off at the top of the image), which causes some geometry funkiness, and I will fix it tonight.

 

Made a AO turnaround last night before bed, take a look at it:

 

[attachmentid=18745]

 

 

I went into the face and selected a horizontal spline loop and hid the rest of the face and did some smoothing. I still notice some "splotchies" in the AO render, but I don't think it's due to geometry and lack of bump and spec mapping to help define the smooth and rough areas of his face.

 

I DO have a texture seam around the eyebrow area and will have to fix that. Oh, and don't look at the back of the neck...heh...I know the work that needs to happen there...YIKES!

 

Started on the boots late last night, but nothing to show yet.

 

- pjc

SupesROTATE.mov

[Zaryin]

Have you tried screing around with the skin shader yet. I use it on one of my guys and it looks pretty good (can't post a pic of it because I'm using it in the Image Contest). I love the back of the neck, haha! Seriously though, it's looking great to me.

[patrick_j_clarke]

I haven't tired the Skin Shader yet, still using the technique I used with my female robot Gail with color, specular and bump maps for the skin, but I should try new things, eh?

 

Started working on the boots. Knew I didn't want "booties", but Superman shouldn't have combat boots either. So, I based mine off of a Wellington Hunting boot. Still have some work to do on the top to define it some more, and maybe add some flair to the top part, we'll see.

 

Here's a couple of shots of the boots as they are tonight:

 

 

 

- pjc

[case]

holy **** cool changes ive been gone a while wanted to see the changes cool love it keep us posted

[patrick_j_clarke]

Did some work over the weekend...

 

Retextured his face and am now playing with bump maps and also trying the "Skin Shader" for the diffuse of the face and hands.

 

Here's some pix of that:

 

 

oh, you might notice I added some seams in his outfit...don't know about them yet tho...

 

Added some "hems" to his red briefs and the cuffs of his "shirt"...like you'll be able to see those in comic book size

 

 

And to top it all off, I did a turnaround again with all of this...and the boots as they are right now.

 

 

[attachmentid=19031]

 

- pjc

SupesTestBootsTOOt.mov

[Shelton]

I love the look!!

 

I have purchased, over the last year, about 4 diiferent animation programs. I have only worked in AM because of the capabilities. You are showing a lot of different modeling techniques from cloth to material / textures in this one model.

 

Keep up the work I am learning a great deal just from watching

 

Steve

[patrick_j_clarke]

Thanks!

 

I'm not too happy with the bump-map right now on his face, so I'm gonna work on that tonight...and I gotta play with the skin shader. I kinda like what it does from a distance, but up close, I'm not sure.

 

Also, the new face map kinda "hard-edged" the hair-line on the sides. Ahh....progress.

 

- pjc

[Zaryin]

Hey Patrick. I noticed if you are using the Skin shader and AO together that the light shouldn't be too close to the camera's orientation or location. If it's off to the side more it gives a better look.

 

I love the hem for the shorts. For some reason I think the cuff would look better if the went longer up the sleave more, but was visible than you have now. I don't really like the seam in the shoulders, but that might just be personal preference.

[patrick_j_clarke]

I will check my light tonight and see if that helps, thanks for the tip!

 

- pjc

[case]

same same great job i thought the bump map looked great i mean i dont see it but whats wrong with the map???

[patrick_j_clarke]

I thought the bump map was getting to "Final Fantasy" movie...just a personal preference I guess, I didn't like the bump mapping in that movie, I thought it made them seem more waxy and dead.

 

But at print res and smaller, I think the bump map will work.

 

 

On to progress...finally gave up on the Skin Shader for the face. After reading some of Yves posts, I think I'll do what he did...use maps for the face, and things that need photo textures and the skin shader for just the "plain skin"...which isn't much on Superman. I moved the lights as Zariyn suggested, but they weren't close to the light anyway. I think it's just a case of the shader not mixing well with my skin maps.

 

Tweaked the "S" shield a little to give a better highlight at certain angles, but you might not notice it in the shots below.

 

Also, did my interpretation of the boots again...made them a little more "pointy" at the top and added the "V" that a lot of Superman designs have at the top of the boot. I think it's subtle, but adds just enought detail.

 

What do you guys think?

 

 

 

Getting close to being done on the modeling and texturing, so if there is any craziness you want to tell me about, let me know!

 

- pjc

[martin]

I think it's awesome, but now I have some suggestions...

 

Find a real actor for the face (you?), take some digital pictures and map them onto the model. Make Superman hyper-realistic. Same thing on the rest of the body: dress somebody buf (you?) all in white, take some digital pictures, and use the result as a Diffuse map. I'm sure you've got the Alex Ross book showing how he paints his watercolors - those are real actors, hyper-realized.

[jon]

you've done a great mod job here! of course, i have a few suggestions... ' ' )

 

1) the blue is too dark for my taste. i'd lighten it up a bit, and prolly desaturate it some as well. the model screams "photoreal", but the blue just takes me out of the illusion.

 

2) you've narrowed the head, but i don't see a corresponding change is supe's neck. his head looks squarish overall -- much more like captain marvel -- which adds to my overall impression that his head is just sitting on his shoulders.

 

gripes aside, this fellow is a great amalgam of the impossibly proportioned animated versions of the big blue banana and his movie counterparts.

 

-jon

[Zaryin]

I love the boots! I still don't like the cuffs on the sleeves though.

[agep]

He is looking great!

[case]

hes looking great

[patrick_j_clarke]

I love the boots! I still don't like the cuffs on the sleeves though.

 

 

So, more like a sweater sleeve?

 

- pjc

[Zaryin]

No. I just think they should be a little wider and a little smaller around -- I hope that makes sense. It looks great, just for personal preference to me . I don't see anyone else saying anything about it, so it might just be me, haha.

[patrick_j_clarke]

ahhh, more of a cuff, right? I see.

 

- pjc

 

I think it's awesome, but now I have some suggestions...

 

Find a real actor for the face (you?), take some digital pictures and map them onto the model. Make Superman hyper-realistic. Same thing on the rest of the body: dress somebody buf (you?) all in white, take some digital pictures, and use the result as a Diffuse map. I'm sure you've got the Alex Ross book showing how he paints his watercolors - those are real actors, hyper-realized.

 

 

Ahhh!

 

I appreciate the input Martin. We both probably have the same Alex Ross book and I totally know what you are talking about, but part of what I don't like in Alex's work is that they are a little too real....it looks too much like a guy in tights...

 

I don't know if I want to go hyper-real, even in the still/comic style. My goal isn't to be just like Alex Ross, but digital, it's more to be known the digital style as Alex Ross/Greg Horn are to painted style. I've tried to carve out a certain style (hasn't gotten me a job yet, tho) that you all have seen with Iron Man, Gail, Cy-Bot, etc....it's comic-real...

 

But maybe for the animated piece....I'm still interested in putting together something as an animation...maybe it needs to be more photo-real...I know A:M could definatley do a great job at it.

 

 

- pjc

 

 

you've done a great mod job here! of course, i have a few suggestions... ' ' )

 

1) the blue is too dark for my taste. i'd lighten it up a bit, and prolly desaturate it some as well. the model screams "photoreal", but the blue just takes me out of the illusion.

 

2) you've narrowed the head, but i don't see a corresponding change is supe's neck. his head looks squarish overall -- much more like captain marvel -- which adds to my overall impression that his head is just sitting on his shoulders.

 

gripes aside, this fellow is a great amalgam of the impossibly proportioned animated versions of the big blue banana and his movie counterparts.

 

-jon

 

 

I'm worried about the blue when/if it goes to print, so I've bumped up the saturation a bit. I don't like the colors that were selected for the movie, they just seemed dull.

 

I read in "Superman: Birthright" something that stuck with me. It said something like:

 

"He chose the colors not to hide, but tell everyone he is here, and he isn't hiding anything."

 

I was looking at the turnaround at his neck, and I think you may be right on. I will do some tweaking tonight to see what happens...

 

Thanks for the input!

 

- pjc

[LIGHTBEING]

Mannnn they look great!!

u really have an eye for detail!

 

i was wondering... can u explain if u have time, how HDRI reflections work? that ironman picture that u have with the repulsor ray comming out of his hand is really coooooooollllllllllllllll looking !

 

thx,

lightbeing

[martin]

We both probably have the same Alex Ross book and I totally know what you are talking about, but part of what I don't like in Alex's work is that they are a little too real....it looks too much like a guy in tights...

We disagree but that's art.

I don't know if I want to go hyper-real, even in the still/comic style. My goal isn't to be just like Alex Ross, but digital, it's more to be known the digital style as Alex Ross/Greg Horn are to painted style. I've tried to carve out a certain style (hasn't gotten me a job yet, tho) that you all have seen with Iron Man, Gail, Cy-Bot, etc....it's comic-real...

You forgot to mention Glenn Fabry?! He also does the hyper-real look using real people. In fact, he paints himself! (That's why I mentioned you doing yourself - it would work).

But maybe for the animated piece....I'm still interested in putting together something as an animation...maybe it needs to be more photo-real...I know A:M could definatley do a great job at it.

I don't think the animation depends on rather it's hyper-real or PJCesque - but BVH motions are "real," in the sense of the word that they are captured from real people. The reason I was suggesting "hyper-real" is because I could pitch that look to DC. Alex Ross and Glenn Fabry are the most prestigious looks in comics.

[patrick_j_clarke]

LIGHTBEING , you can check out my Iron Man WIP, it should explain a lot...Also, check out Yves AO/HDRI thread in the Radiosity forum....good stuff.

 

IRON MAN AO WIP LINK

 

martin, I totally understand. Glenn and Alex command quite a presence over at DC, and it might take something that is as "real" as theirs to get DC to notice.

 

...and you know what, it never hurts to try to break outside of your "style". Sure, I'll get some different face maps (now I'm just using a photo skin texture for the face) and let's take this to the next step.

 

It may turn out like crap (not because of the software mind you) but let's see.

 

- pjc

[patrick_j_clarke]

I added a nice diffuse map to the body and added a photo based bump map (thanks 3D.sk). I didn't like any of the faces that came with my 3D.sk package so I've got one of my friends who is "bruce campbell-ish" and I'm gonna shoot some pix of him soon to try the face.

 

Used A:M composite to work on the image, but it doesn't seem to load in the AO lighting very well...so I ended up doing some tweaking in A:M composite to the lighting and specular, then taking that image into Photoshop and combining it with the original EXR file...Photoshop brings the AO EXR in just fine, btw.

 

I love A:M composite, btw. Great way to tweak lighting, etc. quickly and with 16 bits per channel, whooo it has lots of room to play with.

 

Here's the full body with the diffuse map for the costume and bump for the face.

 

and a close up of the face.

 

I'll update with photo mapped face as soon as I get it done, whether or not I like it! HA!

 

- pjc