INFERNO!

[zandoriastudios]

I'm working on making a Diablo/BaldersGate type RPG using Multimedia Fusion and A:M. This is just a test level with a sample character moving around the game map.

The map is borrowed from "Planescape:Torment", just to try out my ideas for collisions, movement, and having objects eclipse the avatars as they move behind them (trees,rooftops,etc.).

It you would try running the .exe and let me know if it works OK. right now movement is all I'm testing. There should be a sound effect accompanying the movement, and the mouse pointer should be replaced with a sword icon. the playfield should scroll behind the character. To end the application click the "X" in the upper right or hit Ctrl+F4

Windows version only.

[link removed]

thanks

Edited January 28, 2005 by zandoriastudios

[Rodney]

Will,

I was excited to see your post.

A game by you would be entirely to cool.

 

Bad news on my end though.

I got a missing DLL error on launch.

 

See screen grab below.

 

 

I can search out the file on the internet but wanted you to know.

Great to hear you are making progress though.

 

Rodney

 

Here is a link to a site to download the DLL:

 

http://www.dll-files.com/dllindex/dll-files.shtml?cncs232

 

Downloaded.

Note: You will have to extract the DLL file to your Windows Systems directory.

Edited January 23, 2005 by Rodney

[Gene]

Hi Will,

 

Same for me...

 

Eugene

[Rodney]

WOO HOO! It works!

Way to go Will!

 

Movement and sound working fine here.

Now I wanna play more!

 

Rock on.

[Gene]

Cool!...some day I am going to learn how to do this kind of stuff.

 

Looks good Will.

 

Eugene

[zandoriastudios]

I guess I will have to make an installer to put that .dll where it needs to go. [much to learn] Thanks for posting a link to it Rodney!

[Rodney]

Thanks for posting a link to it Rodney!

 

Anything to see this project progress most speedily.

You are living the dream of a lot of CG artists.

 

Note for those dowloading:

You can walk him all the way around the main buildings in the courtyard. I haven't seen any escape path.

 

I haven't found any easteregg surprises like a Balrog jumping out at him yet either so be careful.

[starwarsguy]

I love using A:M and Multimedia Fusion together. I was going to make an RTS with it. But instead, I'm just gonna mod Command and Conquer: Zero Hour. It'll trun out much better and faster.

[robcat2075]

I tried it. It runs after I install the .dll.

 

I don't know what the conventions of this sort of game are, but he seems only to be able to walk upon the area with diamond shaped tiles and not on the rectangular tiles that border that area. That may be intentional.

 

Awfully small character, do we ever see him bigger?

[zandoriastudios]

OK, here is an installer that will take care of the .dll:

[link removed]

 

This is just a test for how to get things working. this won't be the final character or maps, just a proof of concept. I will post updates as I get more things working. For now I was just pleased to get the the main window to stay still while the map scrolls

Edited January 28, 2005 by zandoriastudios

[Fantasiacreator23]

Thats really good Zandoriastudios, reminds me of A RPG Strategy type of game/demo

I actualy want to do this one day. although I am really good at modeling stuff in 3D and animating I want to get better . then I'm going to go into the Music creating stuff, then the C++, and so on. I Too have a great Idea for a game as of now I am doing it as a Movie. anyway you have good talent to be able to do this

[Fantasiacreator23]

That’s really good Zandoriastudios, reminds me of A RPG Strategy type of game/demo

I actually want to do this one day. although I am really good at modeling stuff in 3D and animating I want to get better . then I'm going to go into the Music creating stuff, then the C++, and so on. I to have a great Idea for a game as of now I am doing it as a Movie. anyway you have great talent to be able to do this

 

oO sorry I dubble posted I was going to my editing but accedently pushed post and tryed to stop it but I did not know that the post allready went threw so sorrys

I can't delete this post so I would have to have a mod or admin delete it for me oh wells that happens

[Zaryin]

Haha! That is great, Will. I have some questions.

 

Is everything modeled by you? Did you use A:M for all. what did you use for the textures?

 

Also, I always liked the option of holding down the left mouse button to wlak the avatar around. Any plans for this?

 

It's looking great so far. Makes me want to try out making games .

[starwarsguy]

Multimedia Fusion is like the A:M of game-making, it's not too hard if you want to do simple things, then it's not AS hard as other programs for complicated things. ONly thing bad about it is trying to get the images to merge without wierd borders and stuff.

[zandoriastudios]

Is everything modeled by you? Did you use A:M for all. what did you use for the textures?

This is just some thrown together graphics to get the movement working, the map is from a game by BlackIsle Studios called Planescape:Torment. The character is just one of the stock sprites in MMF. I will be doing everything in A:M, and I have lots of ideas for the characters and graphics--this is just a test of the movement engine for now.

[zandoriastudios]

Added an opening cinematic (temp). It uses a quicktime with mpeg4 compression, so I'm curious about whether that will cause problems (because mpeg4 is only included in QT 6 and later, I think... but the codec is also included in Windows media 9 and up...) I will want to use something that is small, but also likely to be on the users system. I will also end up experimenting with quality settings to make sure everything will fit on on a CD...

 

[link removed]

Edited January 28, 2005 by zandoriastudios

[mediaho]

Using XP pro - no probs here with the cinematic. Looking good. Can't wait to see how this develops.

[lazz]

That is really really cool. When do you think it'll be done

 

-Robert

[Sacman]

Not sure what kind of feedback you want but the opening scene is very pixalated on my machine. I am running 1024 x 768. I am not sure if this makes a diff.

 

How much control do you have with pathfinding? If you tell him to go to a place he cannot get to, he just keeps trying and trying. In the path finding routine he should know that this area is a blocking object and stop trying once he gets close.

 

It still kicks butt though. In case you have not found this info yet, I have read that, for an isometric game, the animation frames for your characters should be taken at 30 degrees. This info took me some effort to find so I wanted to post it for anyone that may not know.

 

Keep posting this is awesome to see.

 

Wade

[starwarsguy]

It's looking good! When I make games, I'm big on cinematics. Maybe evena bit crazy... Every game or mod I make, I just have to throw in cinematics. Keep it up!

[zandoriastudios]

How much control do you have with pathfinding? If you tell him to go to a place he cannot get to, he just keeps trying and trying. In the path finding routine he should know that this area is a blocking object and stop trying once he gets close.

The avatar is just using a bouncingball movement, and every 50/100sec looks at the goal (the little red spot), he bounces when he hits an obstacleand stops once he reaches the goal. In most RPGs I've looked at, the avatar either just stops when it hits the obstacle or the cursor wont let you click outside of the areas you can travel (that is what I'm leaning towards, but haven't worked that out).

That is really really cool. When do you think it'll be done

I dunno...seems like it should keep me busy for quite a while

[John Bigboote]

Purt Durn Cool! Can't wait to see your artwork in there! Where have we seen that cinematic before?

[zandoriastudios]

One thing that I'm noticing when I run the installed application,is that by default it is running in a 640x480 window in the middle of the screen. It is supposed to go full-screen--right now you have to right-click and go to the file properties>compatability tab and check run in 640x480 screen resolution for it to run correctly.

I need to do some checking to see what I need to do to force it to set the screen resolution automatically when it runs, without having to do this...

[starwarsguy]

Yeah, I always mess up getting it to start full-screen...

[Sacman]

It opens for me full screen. But....since I have my screen res set higher the movie plays at 640 x 480 in the center, it does not force my machine res to a lower setting.

 

For some more toys to play with in MMF, go to this site:

 

http://www.reinerstileset.4players.de:1059/englisch.htm

 

Found it on accident but it actually has quite a few animated and static sprites for use directly with MMF. I am not sure what sets them apart from standard sprites but he has them listed that way on his site.

 

 

Wade

[zandoriastudios]

Yes I've seen that guys tile sets--great resource, I might could use some of them as temporary while getting the game working.

 

I want the game to force the screen resolution to change, I will get that worked out before I post the next version.

[gschumsky]

Hey William, I have some questions...

 

1. What is the minimum system requirements? I'm trying it on my Dell Optiplex (it's a 400mhz p3 with 512 megs RAM and the crappy intel video card) running Windows 2000 with the service pack 2. When running the game, the video doesn't play well (I do have QT6)...kinda jumpy, then the game comes up. The character starts to follow the red dot okay, but then I keep hearing the sound pop up from the video. Odd. Then the character won't follow the dot.

 

2. You said you got the set from some other game. Is it one giant graphic, or is it in layers so your character can go behind stuff, or is it being rendered real-time in 3D?

 

Thanks!

 

Greg

[zandoriastudios]

hmmm, that could be a problem! I was hoping that a sprite game would do well on older systems too.. I may have to reconsider some of the ideas I have, or figure out a minimum spec (once I get it finished).

The game map is one giant image, with an overlayed image that defines the collision areas, then some active images that are cropped from the main image and lined up with the background to make the rooftops overlap the main character.

I might be able to cut some of that down if it is too much for the average system, or load smaller map areas.

Thanks for checking it out Greg! I know you are working on an isometric type game also, so I appreciate the feedback!

 

[Apparently the approach I'm taking is similar to the "Infinity" engine that Bioware used, so I guess it can work to use one image for the whole background.--too bad they don't license that, it would save me some trouble! ]

Edited January 25, 2005 by zandoriastudios

[pixelmech]

I also got a very pixellated opening video. Great start though. I'm a big fan of games allowing me to choose windowed mode, just something to think about. I kind of don't like my whole screen 'hijacked' by a game. If I want to pop out and check email or minimize it so my wife can sit down for awhile, etc.

 

I'll be interested to see some of your own stuff inside there!

[gschumsky]

No problem William. So far it looks pretty promising. I like the fact that since it is a large image, you can have a pretty detailed environment. I've been having some problems with the windows box here, so it may not be playing the game well in the first place.

 

The game engine we're using uses tiles for the most part, but I think I can add graphics too for under the tiles. All of the stuctures can either be a big non-moving sprite, or smaller, building block type sprites (great for walls and stuff...kinda like Legos). Also, shadows for character sprites are generated in real time, and we can have the characters walk at a normal pace or fast (almost like a walk/run). The really nice thing is the engine outputs for Mac and Windows, and the programmer is looking into the api for Gameboy. We also have him working on making the shadows track with lights (change angles), and some other little nice features.

 

 

We have the models built for the main characters (thanks to the amazingly talented Jim Talbot!), so I plan on working on some of the game this week.

 

 

Keep us posted with your progress, and I'll do the same.

[Sacman]

Hey Greg, are you using a custom built engine or off the shelf?

 

Also for anyone interested, I came across the following explanation of why Tile based is better than big graphics. I had to read it several times to get the idea down but I can see what they are saying. I am gonna recreate the text since it is out of a hard copy text I have:

 

You have a map with 100 * 100 tiles in it. That comes to 10,000 tiles total. Now imagine you decide to use one large bitmap for the map instead of tiles. To calculate how much memory the map requires, you must multiple the number of tiles by th esize of each tile. The following demonstrates this concept:

 

100 tiles wide * 100 tiles high = 10,000 tiles

 

64 pixels * 64 pixels = 4,096 pixels per tile

 

10,000 tiles * 4,096 pixels * 1byte (8-bit) = 40,960,000 bytes using 256 colors

 

10,000 tiles * 4,096 pixels * 4 bytes (32-bit color) = 163,840,000 bytes

 

Wow! Check that out the simple 100 x 100 tile map takes a whopping 163 MB of storage. ....

 

 

All right now that you have seen the dark side, it is time for a little enlightenment. Take the previous example and calculate the memory storage requirements for the same 100 x 100 map this time using tiles.

 

[Edit: I am moving one of the after statements to the top to make this more clear. The next example is using a 100 tile tile set. That is 100 different types of tiles tiled however you wish]

 

100 tiles wide * 100 tiles high = 10,000 tiles

 

64 pixels wide * 64 pixels high = 4,096 pixels per tile

 

100 tiles [Edit: this is the entire tile set] * 4,096 pixels per tile * 4 bytes per pixel = 1,638,400 bytes

 

10,000 tiles * 1 byte per tile = 10,000 bytes [Edit: this part confuses me somewhat I am assuming that it takes on 1 byte to display the tile]

 

10,000 bytes + 1,638,400 bytes = 1,648,400 bytes total

 

Check that out. Using a tile set of 100 tiles, you can create the 100 x 100 map using only 2MB of memory. Heck, you can use a tile set of 1,000 tiles and still use less than 20MB of memory.

 

I know this isn't crystal clear but if you can decipher it and it makes sense, it shows the distinct advantage of tiles over large bitmaps in 2D/Isometric games.

 

Wade

[starwarsguy]

Multimedia is from scratch, so I'm assuming he's using custom-built.

[zandoriastudios]

Wade,

Here is an interesting article that I read yesterday about the history of isometric games. It points out the advantages and disadvantages of different approaches. It shows examples of each type too (including the whole map approach).

http://www.bookofhook.com/Article/GameDeve...Developmen.html

 

I agree that if I have game maps that are 6,400 pixels square it might be a strain--being 117MB uncompressed! But the advantages in terms of visuals is more appealing.

My solution is to break up my "world" into a grid and design maps that correspond to that matrix, with roads, trails, mountain passes, etc to connect them. So when you get to the edge of the map it will save the state of the current level and load the next one.

I found that I can take a 1-bit image of my collision mask much smaller than my background map and scale it to the same size as the larger image, so it is a tiny file that lets me define all of the places that I can go on the larger map. (I was working on this last night). I am going to use this object to also control where you can click on the map to define a goal of travel--that will get rid of the problem of the avatar struggling endlessly to pass the barrier.

[starwarsguy]

BRAVO! *claps*

[Sacman]

Ok then here is a thought...can you use a 3D map to take advantage of height fluctuations etc... and still use 2d Sprites for PC's, NPC's, MOBS, buildings etc? This seems to be the best way to go. I am not very found of the 3D shift in RTS games. I don't care to zoom in and look at horrible polygon minis of my characters. I would rather look at them from afar. I also NEVER rotate my map in RTS games. I may be the exception to that rule though.

 

So, if you locked the camera at an 'iso' viewpoint, could you get away with this?

 

Also, Ultima Online was my absolute favorite of all the MMORPG to come out (and I have played almost all of them). There is a screenshot of UO in that article.

 

Wade

 

Oh and one more thing, if you haven't seen them you MUST look at these:

 

Age of Empires III Screenshots

[zandoriastudios]

Wow--those are some gorgeous screenshots! It looks like it is a true 3D environment which I can't do in MMF.

In the screenshot that shows a cliff, I would have to approach it with a collision mask that blocks the cliff face for travel (but not necessarily for missiles), forcing the character to navigate to the top by a gap in the collision mask corresponding to a trail in the map that leads to the top.

The terrain can still be rendered and have that look (although it needs to be orthogonal, not perspective), elevation being just a visual trick

[Sacman]

Absolutely. Ensemble used strictly 2D in AOEI and II. I think went to 3D with Age of Mythology. Those screenshots are reported as being actual in game shots. I cannot wait for this game to come out.

 

That cliff shot is by far the best of all of them. I know they used 3d but I am certain a very similar effect could be pulled off using 2D. When you have a minute why don't you throw one together

 

I downloaded a trial version of MMF. It is pretty well built for what it does. I only scratched the surface with the breakout tutorial but it is pretty intuitive. I downloaded the Donkey sprite from the aforementioned website and played around with it some since the Demo comes with very few resources and most of them for the tut. Pathing is not very easy to figure out. I can see why this is gonna cause a little grief but I did not have any objects to collide with. I simply used a point path and drew a path on the screen to see how it would behave. It is nice that it automatically interprets the correct direction for animation.

 

Anyway keep working and posting as you go. I like to see the progress. Even if they are small steps.

 

Wade

[starwarsguy]

I've done something like that. It actually works pretty well. I used it for my custom-made RTS engine.

[gschumsky]

Hey Greg, are you using a custom built engine or off the shelf?

Well, it's kinda both. The engine is called isoworld, and can be found here:

 

http://www.spritec.com

 

Click on the isoworld link when there. Now, the programmer makes a pretty cool other app called Sprite Studio, which lets you create some pretty amazing side-scrolling games.

 

So, isoworld is off the shelf, but we have him adding custom code for our game(s).

 

What's really cool is you do your work in AM, render to targas or pict files, bring into Director and then use the Spritec Xtra to export your art as isoworld art (as animated sequences).

 

Found him through the Mac Game Developers forum.

 

Greg

[Sharky]

Nice work William , but I have a question!

I saw the character walks away, when he blocked an object, Why?

Of course, It's my two cents and I want to see more!

 

Cheers..

 

Sharky

[cfree68f]

Just some input from someone who's built 3d and 2d games. I havnt gotten to see William's stuff but I'm sure its awesome. Bring it to the meeting dude!

 

My input is that you can do these type things with Director and Flash as well. they aren't made specifically to do it.. but Making an engine for them is not that hard if you know some object oriented programming.

 

The nice thing about director.. is that it has a 3d engine.. which is actually very good at 2d. You can create isometric games and scrollers.. by using its layering and sprite commands.. but the whole rendering process falls on the graphics card which boost speed many many times over what the Processor can do by itself.

 

Just my 2 cents for inspiration. Rock on!

 

C

[starwarsguy]

I've made a 3D engine with Flash before. It is a long and grueling process, though, and requires alot of thought. OUCH! BRAIN!...

[gschumsky]

Hey Colin,

 

Completely off topic, but a: what dance is your avatar doing? Kinda looks like something Batman would've done...is he dancing to "Groove is in the heart"?

 

And two: Would you STOP winning (heck, even entering) contests so the rest of us even have a chance????

 

 

Okay, back on topic.

 

I had looked into using Director, but was kinda put off to it's performance for games based on processor speed. I really needed an engine that performed well on older systems as well as new systems equally. But, the engine I use does need Director to convert the game art.

 

 

Greg