"Mischief" an infinite paint program?

[robcat2075]

I don't know if this is a good program or not but it's on sale until monday for $32...

 

defunct link See new link and new offer down at post #15

 

It is able to export PNG with transparency, which I would consider a minimum requirement for A:M decaling purposes.

 

Mischief uses a revolutionary new stroke representation. Get the richness of pixel-based brushes AND the scalability of vectors. Zoom in to any size and get a PERFECT edge. Export at ANY size and resolution.[/size]

Mischief exploits the massive parallelism of today‘s GPUs. Get unprecedented performance even for very complex artwork. Scale, pan, and rotate in real-time without compromising quality.[/size]

[Tore]

Just bought a license. Great drawing/sketching software. A bit simplistic, but with a really flowing, natural feel. Didn't know it beforehand, so thanks for the info, Robert!

[fae_alba]

will a set up like the one on their demo video make me that talented as well? I could really use some help in that area! Seems the real advantage to the software is that you can zoom as far in or out as you need without losing detail.

[Tore]

Well, I guess “talent” isn’t an objective parameter. But “resolution” is! :-)

[pixelplucker]

Program looks pretty nifty, been using Manga Studio for a while. Might give that a try.

Was that Molly Ringwald's sister drawing?

[robcat2075]

I went for it.

 

I clicked File>New several times wondering why a rectangular frame didn't appear.

 

The infinite res is a very interesting thing as is the ability to do soft-ish edges without stairstepping, although the soft edges have a graininess to them if you zoom WAY in to examine them.

 

 

 

Is this the end of pixels? It's what you wish Flash or Illustrator's freehand drawing tools could do. Too bad it can't save in .AI format.

 

The tool set is pretty basic, this mostly about freehand drawing and painting.

 

You can save in any standard format you want as long as it is PSD, JPG, or PNG. My 2000 Photoshop v6 was able to import the PSD file it saved.

 

It seems to understand both ends of my Wacom pen.

 

For people with a cintiq or tablet I think this would be a useful thing.

[markw]

Yes, I tried it some time back when they first released it.
The idea of just being able to paint and draw without having to worry about DPI is a great idea.
But for me I found that's all it had going for it.
My weapon of choice for painting is still ArtRage, which is also on offer at the moment (must be the time of year!)

[Tore]

Some quick tryouts - the program really has a unique feel to it, even I must admit that the features are limited:

[robcat2075]

Another cool thing I like about it is being able to rotate the canvas at any time much as you'd turn a pad of paper while you're sketching on it.

[John Bigboote]

Too bad it can't save in .AI format.

That IS too bad, and I remember looking at Mischief once before and not buying it because I would NEED that feature... who wouldn't?

[pixelplucker]

I snagged a copy, fun little program and yes limited features to name a few...

Limited selection tools (just a rectangular marquis)

No alpha saves for selection

No fill tools

Limited brush effects

No mirror

Limited transforms

 

I bought it because I think the technology is worth keeping up with, I'm sure more will be added later. Over all feel and resolution independence is really interesting. I think down the road they will be the leader in computer illustrations. Looks like they maybe taking feature requests too.

 

A somewhat comparable product is Manga Studio 5 also known as Paint Pro which has much much more depth for tools and natural media. Price is $47.99 right now. I have the EX version of 4 which I use more because it has some better functions that have since been lost in the new versions and the digital ink in the older version was a little smoother and speedier. The old EX version allowed me to import 3d models and render them as cartoons and did a better job than the new one. I did countless illustrations this way where I couldn't practically render out a toon from AM or other 3d programs at the resolution I needed for a clean vectorization (600-1200dpi @ 8x10).

 

Seeing some of Mangas tools in Mischief would make a mind blowing program.. symmetrical drawing, mesh warp and full transforms of selections, selection saves, brush smooth controls for those that drink too much cafine and a fill tool!

[robcat2075]

No alpha saves for selection

 

 

No mirror

Limited transforms

I was able to save a selection with transparency in PNG.

 

What other transforms would you want?

[pixelplucker]

What I meant was you can't store an alpha channel from a selection from within the program.

 

Other transforms such as reflect, skew and mesh deform.

[robcat2075]

What I meant was you can't store an alpha channel from a selection from within the program.

 

Other transforms such as reflect, skew and mesh deform.

 

Is reflect different from flipping something?

[nimblepix]

A (dare I say it) REVOLUTION in drawing/painting software.

 

Resolution independent bits!!!

INFINITE canvas!!!!!!

 

I tried it out and was blown away.

 

Mischief | Sketching & Drawing & Painting Software | madewithmischief

 

The Foundry just acquired it and this is going to make creating computer art even more fun.

 

Just had to share.

 

 

EDIT: I have merged this thread with a past discussion so that they may all be together - robcat2075

 

EDIT: Thanks Rob. I thought this was a new thing, but it turns out that I just missed the earlier post. : )

[pixelplucker]

New version is pretty good, still can't do any free form select like a lasso tool, no magic wand and no fill tool...

 

I use it to sketch out things I want to model and use the drawings as rotos because I'm too lazy to use paper anymore and undo's are cool.

[Rodney]

I like what I see with Mischief and it reminds me a lot of the infinite canvas used in conceptboard.

The difference of course being that Mischief is a drawing program and concept board is used to collect documents/notes.

It'd be nice to see both of those programs capabilities merge.

 

The biggest question for me (with any software program) is... how can I fit it into my workflow?

The free version of Mischief falls a little short in that category as the use of layers and marquee grabbing of elements is a must.

 

Of course, some of this is just putting the program through its paces and smoothing out the workflow.

 

Something worth noting... if A:M had a spline based drawing element/layer* it'd already be on par with Mischief because it already has a similar infinite canvas (and we can even move around through it in 3D.

*Drawing directing with splines in this way doesn't quite work because we have to click continuously to place/cement CPs.

 

There are some nice features that Mischief has that more programs could adopt. Infinite canvas is one that is currently being adopted.

The ability to make the canvas/program transparent is another (as examples of this I've used a little utility to do change the transparency of A:M and other programs which works quite well. This allows me to rotoscope over anything that can be opened in Windows or to drawing over A:M models while they are still in A:M... but within Illustrator... exporting those lines from AI to A:M). This gives me the general conceit of feeling like I can draw freehand in A:M.

 

It would be nice if one could drag and drop images directly into Mischief or grab a bunch of images and do the same.

 

Now that The Foundry is promoting the program I hope they find the support they need for development.

I can already see several uses for this infinite canvas and I look forward to more Mischief!

 

 

Edit: This is pretty addicting... I"m approaching my canvas as an animatic/storyboard. I suspect this'd be well worth the $25 to get access to the layers/psd export.

[pixelplucker]

I use Mischief quite a bit for sketching out ideas and illustrating clients ideas and cleaning up line drawings. Importing low resolution images is better than trying to resample them up to fit a workable canvas at 300 or 600 or in Manga 1200dpi.

 

If you have a tablet of some sorts and do any illustration or sketching then it's a no brainer with it's low system requirements and lag free drawing.

 

To get around the lack of selection tools you should plan on working with more layers than typically done.

[Rodney]

To get around the lack of selection tools you should plan on working with more layers than typically done.

 

I will assume that using layers is the primary way to keep track of things.

For intance, I just drew a massive zoom in and then at the macro level started adding additional imagery. Very soon I began to lose track of where that original zoom was.

 

Also, I do note that when zoomed in to a great extent the position of drawings isn't maintained... drawings move around a little.

Also, I would like to think that zooming in and out (via the plus/minus keys) would take me to the same place each time I zoomed all the way out and then all the way back in... which isn't the case. At least not in the attempt I recently made.

 

I need to check my pen/tablet's calibration/settings too because it's not drawing smooth lines as it should.

Still fun though and I can think of many different ways to use the program.

[pixelplucker]

I use the layers if I am drawing a character, eyes on one layer, body on another etc. This allows me to articulate the character. When done I merge and touch them up.

 

You can control the smoothness in the preferences to get rid of the jitters.

[pixelplucker]

They do have transparency option on the layers but buried it in the layers panel. They have some bug fixes coming soon.

[John Bigboote]

I've been getting back into Flash for quick Illustrations... as a vector art program I've always preferred it to AI. Flash CC has a great new line width tool which makes GREAT thick-thin lines really easily. I find that as I am inking the final lines I can keep my fingers on the N,V, and U keys to get expedient results. N puts a new line down (or series of lines) V will allow you to grab, move and bend the lines much easier than using bezier handles, and U makes a nifty line thickness widget allowing for multiple 'thickness-thiness' values along the length of the line.

 

Attached are 2 samples, the motorcyle girl is my design, sketched right within Flash- and the 2nd is a Shane Glines (awesome character designer) sketch that I inked and painted.

[Shelton]

Very cool!

[pixelplucker]

Have you ever tried DrawPlus? It has a pallet that allows you to tweak the line width and you can adjust the line initial weight with the [ & ] keys same way you change brush sizes in Photoslop.

 

I use it quite a bit because it's so quick and lag free. Then if I need I'll convert the exported pdf in Illustrator CC for my customers to play with.

[Rodney]

I didn't draw a sexy lady in 'mischief' but my daughter and I did draw/paint a duck.

She wanted to call him eyebrows... for obvious reasons... which I modified to japanese spelling 'aiburouzu'.

 

I've included a shot of where he is on the mischief canvas, between hiro and baymax.

[sculptorpro]

Starting at 12:00 am PST on Friday, November 28th - 11:59 pm PST on Monday, December 1st we will be offering Mischief for only *$19.99 USD on the Mac App Store & the Mischief online store.

[Rodney]

Starting at 12:00 am PST on Friday, November 28th - 11:59 pm PST on Monday, December 1st we will be offering Mischief for only *$19.99 USD on the Mac App Store & the Mischief online store.

 

 

I may just take advantage of that because I could definitely use the access to layers/PSD export in mischief.

Especially as the layers can provide for a bit of navigation in an infinite canvas where it is hard to keep track of what has been created.

Even if not used for drawing (which would be silly) the layers could serve as a means to navigate through the canvas.

 

I meant to respond to this as well:

You can control the smoothness in the preferences to get rid of the jitters.

 

I couldn't get the setting to help via mischief but it did smooth out via the tablets software settings.

So, thanks! You got me on the path to success.

[pixelplucker]

So far I haven't had any problems getting lost navigating in Mischief. I tend to doodle in the lower left hand corner of the infinite canvas anyways.

[Rodney]

I picked a copy up at the discounted cyber-day price.

 

One the one hand I am very impressed. On the other I can't help but see the tremendous potential yet to be developed.

The Foundry obviously realized that potential and made the investment in Mischief.

I hope it works out well for them.

 

I tend to doodle in the lower left hand corner of the infinite canvas

 

There is an interesting aspect to that statement... namely that from what I can currently tell there is 'technically' no lower left corner of the 'infinite' canvas.

There is a lower left corner of every layer within that infinite canvas but all you have to do to create a new lower left corner is create another layer and offset it further left.

Of course there is the issue in that there IS a lower left extent to -zooming- within the infinite canvas so once we reach the lower left of the primary layer we cannot zoom any further... all we can do is scroll up and down at that extent (more or less infinitely I assume depending on the amount of new layers created to extend the original canvas.

 

I've been experimenting with animation and will report my findings as this type of thing creates new possibilities for animation (although... those possibilities are restricted by the software used to access Mischief's canvas. A file exported to PSD for instance doesn't retain it's infinite resolution so one would have to 'fake' that by copying and placing higher resolution images over each other to simulate the infinite canvas. In other words, Mischief's canvas is superior in this sense.

 

The one thing that I think will eventually break this whole thing out into truly revolutionary would be to gain some sense of positional awarenes/navigation. I'll guess that this could be done via the layers themselves as each layer has an intrinsic coordinate system (in 2D space). The scary thing to consider is that The Foundry is very likely to extend that capability into 3D space... and that has the potential to change the way artists work everywhere.

 

A second thing that would follow immediately after the navigational aspect would be to hyperlink enable those objects.

Similarly to the real world promise of 'the internet of things' this would allow not only immediate reference to any known object but would allow artists to immediately move to anywhere.

The dangerous part of this is that once web-enabled this would be an impossibly rich virtual landscape (canvas) for which to have artists all over the world collaborate in the same virtual space.

If I've lost you here consider that one of the pressing concerns these days is collaboration... how to work together with others from anywhere... and if 'anywhere' is a shared virtual space where drawing takes place that becomes a very fertile ground for creativity. Combining this shared canvas with iteration tools then allows for the authentication of source and the ability to recall any moment in time via that non-distructive history. It'd be like creating a 90 minute movie (from earliest sketched ideas) all the way to the final phase and then be able to play the process back from start to finish.

 

But, anyway, I digress. What I'm speaking of here is not the program as it currently is.

The most impressive thing about Mischief is what most folks would also consider its weakness; the tools are minimal. This is important especially when developing the potential to usher in yet another new age of animation.

 

 

*I should have also said that another option for extending the infinite canvas is to save the canvas and then start a new one where the other canvas's imagery leaves off.

If the rationale for even going there doesn't make sense, consider it from the vantage point of the cuts from shot to shot in a movie. Some transitions are very obvious while others are not.

 

 

At any rate, here is a test of layers with other goal to test compositing of 3D image created in A:M (the gun) with cel shading effect with colored lines (mostly the characters face.

Most of the rest of the image is just thrown in lines and layers to finish out the scene. The terrible looking reddish vest reminds me of painting cels with acrylics many years ago... it felt like painting with that acrylic in mischief too.

[mborok]

The infinite canvas is a nifty idea and fun to play with, but I'm not really seeing how it helps me in drawing. Although it would be fun to create a huge, very detailed composition. On the whole, I wish they had incorporated the technology with Sketchbook Pro, which is similar in feel.

[Rodney]

The infinite canvas is a nifty idea and fun to play with, but I'm not really seeing how it helps me in drawing.

 

That is a good observation.

My first impression was (and mostly still is) that this is more of a fad-type thing because you can do similar things in other programs to a great extent.

A lot will depend on where they go with the underlying technology.

I do like that mischief is light weight and not burdened by a lot of excess bells and whistles.

 

The major point for me currently is that it does appear to have up'd my productivity and I anticipate it will even more.

As such I'm giving it a full fledged shot in my workflow.

 

Mischief does incorporate a few things that I saw coming awhile ago that they've had the forward looking vision to implement.

 

I'm not really seeing how it helps me in drawing.

 

The answer to this may is more related to what you are drawing than anything.

We'd have to know more about that to suggest how it could assist more in your drawing.

 

It's been too long since I've played with Sketchbook so I can't really make a decent comparison.

One reason I'm drawn... literally and figuratively... to Mischief is the potential I hope to find there.

It's fallen short on a few things (for instance, if you hide all the layers but one it'd be nice if the 'view all strokes' command would take you to only those strokes that are visible and not also those that are hidden) but thus far I've found ways to work around them.

 

I will say that my focus for use of mischief is (primarily) on rapid planning for animation.

My success here will depend as much or more on my workflow than anything.

 

A hint at the answer to your specific dilemma (that of not knowing how the program helps you to draw better) is to consider that Mischief originated from research into how to better serve Disney animators. Perhaps more than anything else, this is key. Most other digital drawing programs are tailored toward illustrators. In animation (or at least the initial stages of planning for it) we don't have the time luxury to be illustrators.

 

My 2 cents thrown into the mix.

[Rodney]

For those that purchased the full license to Mischief...

 

Version 2.10 is out and while it doesn't have a lot of new features it does have one important one; pins.

With pins specific locations can be identified and recalled just by cllcking on the pin listing (which is there near the the layers).

Perhaps the most useful part of that is how a 'thumbnail' of all the pins (the images at those locations) can be be exported and as those thumbnails can be pretty large they don't exactly have to be thumbnails. These pins can be useful in creating storyboards, decals imagery within decal imagery (for finer detail in specific locations) etc. and scroll arrows allow those locations to be 'played' through (for better narrative navigation).

 

All in all pins are a simple thing but an excellent addition that should prove useful for navigating around Mischief's infinite canvas.

 

Disclaimer: I haven't tried opening a file in the free version to see what is done with the pins/layers that can be used in the paid version. I assume they just don't appear.

 

https://www.madewithmischief.com/mischief

[Heiner]

Made a bit of money recently and spent it on Animation:Master and on Mischief.

AM was a great buy, Mischief not really. To doodle a bit and rough out ideas its ok,

but to do more ... not really. Here I always fall back to Krita (open source, free, awesome),

Project Dogwaffle (cool and not expensive but with the layer mixing, its lacking

one important mode) and finaly Twisted Brush (awesome brush engine).

All in all, Krita gives you all you need for texture painting for free ...

Regards

Heiner

[Rodney]

At this point the strength of Mischief if mostly in its potential.

It'll be interesting to see where they go with it.

 

I am especially intrigued by the 'slow-simmer' approach to adding new features because it suggests they are considerate of how they bring new features into play with regard ti the underlying technology's strengths.

They could throw a lot of other features into the mix but they are resisting that in their effort to explore the benefits of the technology more deeply. This is a risky move and it's grabbed my attention. If they can stick with their longer term plan they should have a winner. If not they'll be more of a one trick pony and the underlying tech will transfer to other applications (which is very likely already occurring anyway).

 

As for Krita, my experience there didn't turn out so great but I have high hopes for it especially when they get the traditional animation features in place.

I'm encouraged by their recent emphasis on animation not as an after thought but at the very core of Krita.

[Heiner]

Slow simmer approach, never heard that before, hahaha.

I dont think that they do not put in more features because they consider so deeply what fits the mix of tools.

I think its rather that the foundry (to which mischief belongs) put an hold to all developement for the reason,

to keep everything open for the new owner and then develop in order to please the new owner, or rather

to fit better to their plans.

How ever can also be that you are right. But in softwarebusiness, new features means a way to attract customers.

A slow simmer approach as you put it, is not the stuff what the marketing department wants to make the app sell well ...

Regards

Heiner

[Rodney]

A slow simmer approach as you put it, is not the stuff what the marketing department wants to make the app sell well ...

 

Perhaps, but it meets with reality.

Coding is time consuming and coding with specific goals/targets in mind is how professional coders work; they chart out the feature and (where justifiable) put a programmer to work.

The release of new features (with or without marketing) must then fall into sync with that scheduled release of code.

 

Marketing is making associations based on what is available, or more aptly... what can reasonably be anticipated.

With Mischief a major marketing facet is the 'infinite canvas' which from a distance appears very cool... until you realize it's not really an infinite canvas and there are limitations that come with that too so it settles back in to the standard groove of reality. That part of the plan is mostly gimmick... but it's a hook that sets them apart from other drawing programs and (at least for now) seems to work.

 

I recall that one of the things I liked about Hash Inc's marketing when I first contemplated purchasing A:M was that they didn't seem to hype anything... and in the midst of everyone else promising the moon that drew my attention. Their lack of marketing compelled me to take a closer look. $299 was a lot of money to me back then and I had been burned by marketing hype before so I wanted to be as sure as possible that A:M was a good fit before I invested for the long term.

 

In the real world you also want to manage your sales in a way that is realistic too. A marketing department that isn't in sync with an adequate support mechanism will just hasten the product's doom.

Numbers are good but they aren't the goal. Long term relationships are worth more.

This too fits into the 'slow simmer' approach in that the customers you want to encourage to purchase your product are those that aren't apt to chase after the latest and greatest and run helter skelter from pillar to post but have a sense of sticking with you for the long haul. Some might refer to that as loyalty but I prefer 'practicality'; you occasionally scratch my back and I'll do my best to scratch yours. Everyone gets something out of it. Loyalty is a term better reserved for the kindly and one way unconditional if not instinctual affectations of your dog.

 

For the cyber day sale I purchased Mischief for $20 and it's well worth that. I'd say it's worth the full $25 as well as they are still actively developing and improving the product.

I have no idea if they may charge a new fee with the release of 3.0 but I expect they will. But should they opt to pass that release on gratis to those who've already purchased I'll be more than happy to be wrong.

[pixelplucker]

I do use Mischief occasionally but have used the brush tools in DrawPlus and font it much better to doodle and sketch then finalize my work in one program. Brush strokes are vector and extremely easy to edit.

 

Still too much lacking in Mischief such as fill tools, lasso selection, symmetry, blur or blend tools, and ability to edit strokes, replace colors etc etc.

[robcat2075]

"Slow simmer" better than "festering sore".