How to place camera at same view as perspective view?

[Carol8]

(How do you place the) camera at the same view as perspective view?

[largento]

I'm not aware of a shortcut key that will do that. Would be cool if you could. Maybe one of the older folks know something.

 

[EDIT] There are shortcut keys for moving the camera around while in camera view. I'll have to look for them, since I don't use them myself.

 

[EDIT] Here are the key commands to move the camera around:

 

Camera Keystrokes (Use when looking through a camera) submitted by Will Sutton

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Holding down shift while using the hand/pan tool[M]will dolly forward and backward

Hold down control while using the hand[M] will shift the camera sideways and up and down.

Holding shift with the zoom[Z] tool will adjust your focal length.

Holding shift using the Turn tool[T] will aim the camera.

Holding control while using the Turn [T] tool will tilt the camera.

 

or in the words of Mike Stamm:

The shortcut keys are 'T', 'M' and 'Z', just like in the modeling window. But here's the trick: If you don't hold down a modifier key, it'll just move the Bird's Eye view, as you probably already know. These are the modifier keys.

 

For 'T'

 

Hold down Cmd: The camera rotates along its own axis, like the hands of a clock.

 

Hold down Shift: The Camera swivels to look in different directions, but without moving.

 

For 'M'

 

Hold down Cmd: The camera moves side to side or up and down with the mouse.

 

Hold down Shift: The camera moves forwards and backwards.

 

For 'Z'

 

Hold down Cmd: The camera simultaneously zooms out and moves in, or vice versa.

 

Hold down Shift: The camera zooms in (changes focal length), but doesn't move.

 

Note: For this process use the 'Cmd' key on the Mac and 'Ctrl' key on Windows

[Rodney]

Welcome to the forum Carol!

 

We may need a little more information here in order to understand your goal.

 

The Choreography window by default always places the camera in a perspective view.

This is generally considered a street level view where you (in the audience) are the viewer so the camera assumes the position of your perspective for viewing.

 

If you Right Click in a window and select View on the menu you'll see several views to choose from one of which is the current Camera view.

Other views include Right, Left, Top, Bottom, Front and Back as well as Bird's Eye View; a 30 degree downward (isometric) view from high and to the left of normal camera perspective view.

 

You can also assume a view from any Light that you place in a Choreography.

Those views for lights will appear along with the camera views when Right Clicking in a window.

 

I suppose the most important thing to determine when choosing a view is what (or who) is looking at that scene.

This will determine the perspective of the view.

 

For instance, a child's perspective will be lower than that of an adult.

A giant still higher and angled down to create a distorted view.

The classic 'worm's eye view' is right at ground level looking up.

 

Bottom line: You can have the view be anywhere you need it to be to tell your story.

[Fuchur]

In short: There is no "easy way" to do that. To get the perspective view you would need to first create a new camera, switch it to orthographic mode and than place it where you want it. In general people do not really want orthographic mode because it is harder to work with... in that case you just need a very large zoom-factor on a perspective mode camera (increase focal length to 500 or something like that) to decrease the perspective distortion.

 

Positioning however needs to be done by hand for now. You can use the shortcuts to move the camera while being in camera view (quite useful, especially if you own a space navigator) but it has to be done manually.

There is a feature request asking for that feature, if I am not wrong.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[robcat2075]

Welcome to the forum, Carol8!

 

As noted above there is no automatic way to snap a camera to the birds eye view. I have asked for that feature in the past but it's probably a low priority

 

If you look in the lower right corner of the A:M interface there are some numbers that describe the position and rotation of the real time view and if you click on those numbers you get a window that lets you input specific values.

 

However, i haven't quite figured how to translate those numbers to camera coordinates to move a camera to a birdseye view point. Perhaps you will!

[detbear]

Hey Carol8,

 

I inquired about this not long ago and I'm hopeful that it will be added in the near future as a feature.

Great thing about using Hash A:M is that they try to add the things that us as users find important to our

workflow.

 

I have been "eye-balling it" mostly. If you need a bunch of precision, take a screen shot of your "Birds eye view." Save it in a

photo app.

Then add it to the camera as a back drop.....Make it transparent. Then move the camera to line the image up with the scene.

Not the best option in the world, but it will help.

 

William

[Rodney]

Okay, I give. Will someone explain what a Perspective View is exactly and/or alternatively, if a Bird's Eye view is the accepted Perspective View, why a Right Click and selecting 'Bird's Eye View' (Shortcut key Number 7) won't get you that view?

 

Since we all seem to want this feature it might be good to know what it is.

For many people it would seem to be that they are referring to an isometric view that can be achieved via a Right Click / Bird's Eye View / Zoom.

For others, especially those that use 'Perspective View' and 'Bird's Eye View' interchangably, I'm no longer sure what they mean by 'Perspective View'.

Please educate me.

[Fuchur]

I think it is not that complex Rodney.

1.) Someone places a nice object in the chor.

2.) The Turns and zooms around it to see which is the nicest way to look at it.

3.) He wants to get the camera (to render with it in an animation) to exactly that view because that is what he wants to show the audience.

4.) > Right-Click on the camera in the PWS and choose: "Move camera to current viewport".

 

> The position of the view is given to the camera to key it at the current position. The advantage is: Everybody knows very well how to move the viewport and it is easy to do that. Moving the camera is often harder (even with the shortcuts to move in its view, although this is a great help).

 

It sounds simple and is simple but I do not know if it is easy to programm.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[robcat2075]

Okay, I give. Will someone explain what a Perspective View is exactly and/or alternatively, if a Bird's Eye view is the accepted Perspective View, a Right Click and selecting 'Bird's Eye View' (Shortcut key Number 7) won't get you that view...

 

If you press the \ (backslash key) in any view you can toggle between Perspective and Orthgonal styles.

 

Perspective is a natural appearance where parallel lines will recede into the distance and objects appear smaller as they move farther away.

 

Othogonal is a rather artificial representation with neither of those qualities.

 

 

The "birdseye" view inherits whatever style you were in before you began birdseyeing around. If you Turn out of the camera view (a Perspective view normally) your birdseye view will remian in Perspective style.

 

If you Turn out of one of the standard Left-Right-Side-Top-Bottom views (normally orthogonal style) the Birdseye view will stay in orthogonal style.

[Rodney]

If I understood this better I think we could build a tailor-made solution (for instance creating a single Null that is just in front of the Camera view and then moving that around... with the Camera following that view)

.

In short, the goal seems to be more than just moving around freely in 3D space to get a view on an object and then keying that because we can already do that in a variety of ways. For those opposed to mouse movement there is always rolling the numbers to change the Translation and Rotation via the Properties. This keys the movement automatically too.

 

Mouse movement is an ideal way to move through a scene via a Camera's view although I haven't had a mouse connected to my laptop for a long time so I can experiment with that currently. I've seen demonstrations where folks walk through scenes this way beautifully.

 

I'm trying to imagine what success looks like but still haven't got that quite locked into view.

At it's core the real bugbear of this issue seems to be that we have too many views to choose from... i.e. we need our view (whatever it is) to be a/the camera view.

[robcat2075]

I think the desire for a Camera to Birdseye button comes from the fact that navigating in Birdseye view is quite intuitive and we're all well-practiced at it.

 

It should be possible to do since all views, Camera or otherwise, originate from a point in 3D space and have a specific direction in that space and a field of view angle.

[Rodney]

I think the desire for a Camera to Birdseye button comes from the fact that navigating in Birdseye view is quite intuitive and we're all well-practiced at it.

 

It should be possible to do since all views, Camera or otherwise, originate from a point in 3D space and have a specific direction in that space and a field of view angle.

 

Every once in awhile we see a desire for a feature that at it's core is actually a request to take away some current feature or function.

This is one of those cases.

 

This seems to be largely a perception issue because if the default view was the Camera view, instead of the free-floating view that is not treated as a standard keyable rendering camera view the we would already have the functionality we are looking for. (Translation: We appear to have the feature identified but as it is currently don't prefer to use it)

 

At its core what seems to be the underlying request (although not necessarly from Carol8) is to remove the current Bird's Eye View and force the user to operate from within a Camera view that just happens to function with an option to default to what is commonly known as Bird's Eye View, i.e. a 30 degree forward/30 degree right/30 degree downward view on any object(s) in frame.

 

So, now at this point we do have to ask, "Why not just use a Camera view?".

I assume the answer is the flexibility we currently enjoy in the default (non-camera) viewport... as Robert has mentioned... which we can render from but cannot key for rendering so as to have it behave as standard Camera views do.

 

So again, I find myself wondering what success looks like.

At it's core it seems we are suggesting that all views should be from a keyable camera.

 

If this is the case then we run into one additional problem/issue in that a Model or Action does not (strictly speaking) have a Camera assigned to it.

Similarly a Chor can have it's Camera removed. Thus, strictly speaking a renderable camera is not required for viewing... although it is for all but real-time viewing?)

 

This then seems to be the 'Perspective' that we are trying to refine that of the interface's port view in all windows (Model, Action, Chor... and likely Materials and the like also).

 

It seems to me the suggested workaround to all this is a means to simply copy the current Translation and Rotation (I don't think Scale has any relationship to Zoom) of the current view and paste/duplicate those settings into a Camera.

 

Am I getting closer?

[Rodney]

Interesting.

 

This discussion has led me to some new (and I think very useful) discoveries.

Example:

 

Underlying principle to remember: While we cannot key A:M's window view settings we can save them via a Project file which effectively saves/keyframes those views.

 

Process:

Create a few windows (in any view Modeling, Action, Chor or all of the above)

Set lengths of shots as appropriate (easier to do in Actions and Chors)

Tile your windows so that you have a view on each window (either horizontally or vertically)

Move things around in each window or alter your view of them in the window.

For keyed shots use Actions or Chors (Models intrinsically don't have movement)

Render to Real Time via and save each of the windows views.

 

For ease and organization it can help to call each view appropriately.

Example: The Model might be named (Perspectview002Model001Still), the Action simply (Perspectiveview001MovingObjects) and the Chor (Perspectiveview003MovingCamera).

 

Once again... the windows themselves are your production keyframes so make sure you save the Project with those views.

If the windows are in your way simply minimize them.

 

Bring all the various renders back into A:M for editing or import them into your favorite video editor.

 

This workflow provides a very fast 'rapid protyping' or vis-dev methodology for setting up scenes and rendering from any current (perspective) view.

It allows the use freefloating views and camera views simultaneously as required by the user.

 

 

Note: We could render to final as well but there is just something cool about rendering the real time preview.

I've been looking for a good excuse to use that.

 

Additional Notes:

The only way that I know to save a perspective view outside of creating that perspective through a camera is to save the window in a Project. As far as I can tell, if you close the window you lose that specific perspective view. So save the Project so that you can recall that view. For sharing perspective views from one Project to another I'll have to look closer at how Project Files save their window views.

 

Added: Freakin' awesome. Every day I learn something new.

[Fuchur]

You are highly overcomplicating this feature request. It is really very very simple and has a quite straight forward purpose. No 5 Windows open, no "i'd like to remove the default view / camera view...".

It is just about: click a button or press a key or a menu entry and the camera will place and orient itself as the current view is. Nothing more. The purpose is: I have a few which I like and found it in Birds View.

I like to use it in my animation. To do that now, I would need to approximate it using the camera (which is possible but much work and quite tricky).

 

I'll ask for it in A:M Reports and we shall see what will happen. It may be included or not. Steffen's decission.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[Rodney]

You are highly overcomplicating this feature request.

 

I'm just using what is already in A:M.

I'll leave the feature requesting to folks that need new features.

[Darkwing]

I'm curious if Carol is a previous Max user, because I'm pretty sure that's a max feature, to be in a bird's eye/perspective view and then hit a button and it generates a camera from that viewport.

[markw]

I think it is not that complex Rodney.

1.) Someone places a nice object in the chor.

2.) The Turns and zooms around it to see which is the nicest way to look at it.

3.) He wants to get the camera (to render with it in an animation) to exactly that view because that is what he wants to show the audience.

4.) > Right-Click on the camera in the PWS and choose: "Move camera to current viewport".

 

> The position of the view is given to the camera to key it at the current position. The advantage is: Everybody knows very well how to move the viewport and it is easy to do that. Moving the camera is often harder (even with the shortcuts to move in its view, although this is a great help).

 

It sounds simple and is simple but I do not know if it is easy to programm.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

Nicely summarised Gerald.

I for one would find this a most valuable feature addition.

[robcat2075]

Every once in awhile we see a desire for a feature that at it's core is actually a request to take away some current feature or function.

This is one of those cases.

 

We must not be talking about the same thing.

 

As I understand the request, it is an add-on to functionality that would diminish nothing else.

[Rodney]

As I understand the request, it is an add-on to functionality that would diminish nothing else.

 

As the original poster hasn't clarified their request (assuming it was a request) it's rather hard to say.

The original post was mostly undecipherable and posted at the end of an unrelated thread.

[Fuchur]

As I understand the request, it is an add-on to functionality that would diminish nothing else.

 

As the original poster hasn't clarified their request (assuming it was a request) it's rather hard to say.

The original post was mostly undecipherable and posted at the end of an unrelated thread.

 

No problem, I think we figured the request out quite well... at least it is not the first time this has been asked for and like that it may be needed.

Steffen has to decide about it finally.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[largento]

I've been okay without this as an option, but I'd certainly welcome it.

 

I don't think there's one of us that hasn't tumbled around a choreography, found an angle they loved and then struggled to try to place a camera to match the view. Never succeeded in getting a perfect match.

 

That was one of the reasons I loved the old techno crane camera. I could use it instead of tumbling to get just the shot I wanted.

[zandoriastudios]

It would be cool to rotate around the camera target from the camera view, in the same way as other views. Sometimes the camera navigation can be tricky--because it is analogous to traditional camera moves (but why keep be limited to that?)

[robcat2075]

Someone with a lot of patience should investigate those numbers at the bottom of the screen that describe the current view point.

[Rodney]

Well, as a shot across the bow of this thing...

When a Project file is saved those View Settings are saved into the [WINDOWPLACEMENT] tags in a Project file after the closing [/FileInfo] tag:

Thusly:

 

(Example)

A:M Project File

Name=Perspective View 001

CurrentView=6

Mode=1

FrontView=4.62824 0 0

BackView=-1 0 0

LeftView=-1 0 0

RightView=-1 0 0

TopView=-1 0 0

BottomView=-1 0 0

BirdsEyeView=3.72257 0 -4.10523 43 0 27

WindowPosition=0 1 -1 -1 -8 -28 478 0 717 580

Name=Perspective View 002

ModelName=Perspective View 001

Time=0

CurrentView=6

Mode=4

FrontView=1.33949 -41.3619 -8.30078

BackView=-1 0 0

LeftView=-1 0 0

RightView=-1 0 0

TopView=-1 0 0

BottomView=-1 0 0

BirdsEyeView=0.437259 113.257 -119.164 -45 0 -35

WindowPosition=0 1 -1 -1 -1 -1 239 0 478 580

Name=Perspective View 003

Time=0

CurrentView=100

Mode=5

FrontView=0.538107 100.497 -92.8555

BackView=-1 0 0

LeftView=-1 0 0

RightView=-1 0 0

TopView=-1 0 0

BottomView=-1 0 0

BirdsEyeView=-1 0 0 30 0 30

WindowPosition=0 1 -1 -1 -1 -1 0 0 239 580

 

Perhaps there are other authorized view tags but thus far I see only three containers that store them:

 

 

For the uninitiated, double clicking on the numbers down there will pull up the View Settings dialogue box.

Disclaimer: I don't think typing settings into the dialogue box always works to change the active view.

 

Aside: An external plugin that created a Camera at the location of the current Window View might need only to save a Project file to disk or memory, then locate and transfer the coordinates of the window to the newly created Camera. An internal plugin might be able to do something sleeker depending on where view settings are stored in disc cache or memory. In other words, in addition to the current 'New/Camera' option there might be a 'New/Camera (current view)' option that would transfer the current window view coordinates into the settings for the new Camera. The process for creating a Camera would then be like it is now but with a new option to automatically set the new camera to the current window view.

 

To further explore what success might look like note that currently when creating a new Camera (in an Action) the Camera is placed at Mouse position with no other orientation copied from the window view. An extension of this might be to have hold down the SHIFT key while creating a new Camera which would tell A:M that the user desires to have the new Camera assume the Window's current view.

 

Anticipated problem with the above:

It is not entirely clear to me how we would get the Position to set the camera from the current view although it seems it could be derived from the Perspective (angle) and the Zoom of the current window setting view.

[Rodney]

Attached (for general reference) is the dialogue box that pops up when double clicking on the view settings in the lower right corner.

It is this information that we can use to generate our automated camera view.

[robcat2075]

Those numbers seem to represent some sort of angle and distance from what ever the currently active Turn center is ( the last selected object)

[Rodney]

Here's a generic camera's settings from a Chor (for comparison):

 

A:M Choreography File

Name=Camera1

End=0 0 100

Rotate=0 0 0 1

Length=100

Value=166 202 240

FocalLength=70

Value=Targa

FileName=

Value=FrameRange

EndFrame=1:0

Value=TRUE

TVSafe=Off

 

And Cameras can be saved out as separate .CAM files and while I haven't yet confirmed this, their coordinates seem to be similarly stored:

 

ProductVersion=17
Release=17.0 PC










Name=Camera
End=0 0 100
Rotate=0 0 0 1
Length=100
FileName=untitled.avi

LastModifiedBy=Rodney







FileInfoPos=248

 

If .CAM files do store coordinates then this might allow for a secondary approach in creating/saving/exporting a Camera with the current window's view settings.

To the user success in this instance might look like this: Right click/Plugins/Wizards/New Camera (Current View). A dialogue box might then pop up with additional options for the user such as to save a .CAM file with Camera coordinate settings from the current window view. The default might be to have the new Camera open import from the saved .COM file into the current view.

[robcat2075]

try this...

 

create new blank chor

 

select the camera view

 

Turn out of it and Zoom out until the camera can be seen. The center of the Turn should be the 0,0,0 point of the ground

 

Click on the camera to select it, then press T for Turn.

 

Watch the numbers for horizontal and vertical on the bottom change when you click in the back ground.

 

Select the ground again, the press T again. The numbers will revert to what they were before when you click on the background again.

[Rodney]

I think I... mostly followed you there.

I got to the point where the camera view and perspective view were about the same and then I figured I wasn't doing what you intended.

 

Let me check here...

 

By

Turn out of it and Zoom out until the camera can be seen.

 

I assume you to mean a very slight movement. Just enough to get us out of camera view.

Zooming out then get the camera in view in our perspective view.

Since the mission is accomplished at this point... and the camera view and the perspective view are the same... I get confused.

This is a healthy workaround because the camera then is always going to see what is in perspective view. Right? Or maybe no?

 

Perhaps I'm just not tracking on what we are specifically looking for here.

 

Back I go to run through that a few more times to make sure.

Are you suggesting this methodology as the means to get a Camera to echo the Perspective view?

Or is this research for exploring further?

Or both?

 

From my vantage point this is the feature that was requested. (In three steps!)

 

Added: Then once the perspective and camera views are the same the user can move back and forth between standard camera settings and perspective view Although at that point it's best just to use the camera commands as that will be the perspective view too.

 

From the Tech Ref:

[robcat2075]

By

Turn out of it and Zoom out until the camera can be seen.

 

I assume you to mean a very slight movement. Just enough to get us out of camera view.

 

 

 

 

No, I meant a large move so that they are quite different.

 

This just demonstrates that the numbers are describing a position in relation to the currently chosen object and not an absolute point in space.

[markw]

Dose anybody know why these numbers are displayed in the first place?

What use could their information be put to? Indeed is there anyone here who dose or has used them?

[robcat2075]

Dose anybody know why these numbers are displayed in the first place?

What use could their information be put to? Indeed is there anyone here who dose or has used them?

 

I do recall using it once to recreate a specific birds eye view i needed to do something. I wrote the numbers down and typed them in manually when I needed the view again.

[robcat2075]

Now I remember why I used that panel.

 

i was doing screen cams for a tut and was trying to start a new take in the middle of a previous take without an obvious jump cut so i used these numbers, copied from the screen capture to try to recreate an exact birdseye view.

[Vertexspline]

Carol's request is a feature in MODO --so I am very familiar with what she is looking for. Basically lets say you have set your camera to look the front of a cube but your still tweaking your scene and while you are in another viewpoint ie perspective you see a cool shot ---so in modo there is a camera button" to sync with current view" . It then sets the camera view to the same as the current view. It is very helpful feature.