Entry level HD cameras, or DSLR?

[Roger]

I've been thinking about picking up either one of those crazy megapixel DSLR cameras that can also shoot HD video and using it in video production, or a high-end DV cam. I've also looked at HD camcorders but they're a bit out of my budget (2k to 4k).

A while back I really wanted to get a Canon XL-1, but could in no way justify it for "hobby" level use. You can pick one up used no for around $1k, though. I looked at the updated HD versions of this camera but they are ridiculous $$$.

 

I can get a consumer level handycam that will shoot HD, but my concern is ifI try to use it in a professional capacity to make money on the side, I'm going to look a bit silly showing up with consumer gear to shoot a commercial or video a wedding (or whatever).

 

I don't necessarily want to start a fulltime business, maybe make some extra money or fund my interests.

 

Anyone have any experience with using a DSLR for video work as opposed to traditional gear? I asked one of the sales guys at the local "big box" about it and he said I would burn it out (not sure how that would happen).

[Fuchur]

I've been thinking about picking up either one of those crazy megapixel DSLR cameras that can also shoot HD video and using it in video production, or a high-end DV cam. I've also looked at HD camcorders but they're a bit out of my budget (2k to 4k).

A while back I really wanted to get a Canon XL-1, but could in no way justify it for "hobby" level use. You can pick one up used no for around $1k, though. I looked at the updated HD versions of this camera but they are ridiculous $$$.

 

I can get a consumer level handycam that will shoot HD, but my concern is ifI try to use it in a professional capacity to make money on the side, I'm going to look a bit silly showing up with consumer gear to shoot a commercial or video a wedding (or whatever).

 

I don't necessarily want to start a fulltime business, maybe make some extra money or fund my interests.

 

Anyone have any experience with using a DSLR for video work as opposed to traditional gear? I asked one of the sales guys at the local "big box" about it and he said I would burn it out (not sure how that would happen).

 

A DSLR will never look like serious filming... if you want to go that route, get a mid-class hd-cam-corder.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[thekamps]

Check out FilmRiot http://revision3.com/filmriot (love this show)

 

They shoot most there stuff with DSLR and even rate and review different cameras available at various price points. I believe there is even an episode where they show and compare footage shot with a mix of cameras.

http://revision3.com/filmriot/dslr

[largento]

I was talking to a photographer friend recently and he did tell me about a limitation with using a DSLR for filming HD video that I'd not heard before. He was telling me that after about 20 minutes of recording HD video, the camera's sensors overheat and it stops filming.

 

So, you can use one for short shots, but if you wanted to video something longer than 20 minutes (like a wedding), you're out of luck.

[ernesttx]

Hey, Roger,

For the DSLR cameras, the big concern there would be stabilizing the camera. Since most (if not all) DSLRs are using CMOS imagers, any movement during recording will generate wobbly video (ie rolling shutter). I have a Canon T2i and even as experienced as I am and using a shoulder brace, there are many times were even the slightest movement or adjustment of camera position results in a bit of wobble. Especially if zoomed in on my subject.

 

Using a DSLR on a tripod is recommended, but for any type of walking movements or even pan and tilt, there will be wobble. So, you will need some sort of rolling shutter correction filter in your editing application or a dedicated application like Mercalli. If that's the case, then you are looking at more expense.

 

Also, what the sales guy was probably hinting at, is that many of the DSLRs can only record video for a certain number of minutes before either the camera reaches its record limit or the camera gets hot and needs to cool down. No very good for lengthy event recordings.

 

I have used professional gear from Sony BetaCams, Ikegami, Panasonic, etc. for years and in my opinion, if you are even considering doing any time of video work and want to "look" professional, then go with a CCD camcorder. Yes, you will loose some of the dynamic range that the DSLRs offer, however, learn about lighting. You will loose the ability to use different lenses and get that wow factor shallow depth of field look; but, in many event video recordings (ie weddings, meetings, festivals, etc), you won't be using that. It's mainly used by people creating a scripted film and want that hollywood big camera look.

 

But, want you will gain from CCD is stable video. Video you can use in matchmoving applications to composite live action and CG images. It may not be something you are considering now. But, trust me, if you want to be able to do that, you will have that option. Not to say that it can't be done with a DSLR, but the workflow (and the prep work) is much easier.

 

Also, many DSLRs do not have microphone inputs, and those that do only have 1/8" inputs. Most don't have headpone jacks for monitoring audio. Most don't have allow you to manually adjust audio levels, etc. Basically, meaning that during video recording (especially event recording where you may only have one opportunity to get the shoot, most DSLRs are not ergonomically setup to allow on the fly adjustments).

 

Also, consider, your level of experience and knowledge of working in video. If this is a serious hobby and one you will be growing in experience and knowledge over the coming years vs starting out with no experience and wanting to learn more; then, I would suggest started with a low end DV camera and finding out what you need to learn about. If you have experience; then, I would suggest taking time to review different HD camcorders and finding one within your budget. If you get steady regular work; then the camera will pay for itself.

 

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[ernesttx]

Something else that just came to mind that you might factor into your decision and that is, what will your final delivery be? That is, what will you be deliverying to your client. Is the end result just a DVD of the event? In that case, a high end DV camera is adequate. Unless you will be mastering and deliverying a Blu Ray Disc, then getting an HD camcorder might be overkill at this point (depending on your experience).

 

However, you can put HD video on a regular DVD (I think it's a bout 20 minutes, not sure as I've not done it); then, getting an HD camera would be justified.

 

If you are wondering, I currently use a JVC HM100. Nice camera for the price (currently they are about $2100, shop around). Records to dual digital cards, CCD imagers, lightweight, XLR inputs, manually adjust settings (iris, shutter,etc), gain, many HD resolutions, .mp4 (xdcam) and .mov codecs, 35bit, HDMI clean 4:2:2 out, and the list goes on. JVC will introduce their new model, HM150, this october; so, the price may go down even more. But, it'll be north of $3500.

[Roger]

Well I already have a consumer-level DV cam, I may be served best by using that (for now). My only concern with using it for work in a professional capacity is not the quality level but the impression I would give clients. I shot a commercial for public access with it and it turned out pretty well. However, people tend to judge on appearance (rightly or wrongly) and I think showing up with consumer-grade gear, I would get the "why am I paying you when I could give my nephew $50 and a case of beer?" reaction.

 

And I may be being too optimistic here, I'm not sure how realistic it is to compete in the wedding market. While I haven't done a ton of low-budget commercials, it is what I have the most experience with. Even then, I'm not sure how to market my services. This is only a part-time endeavor, and it seems that there are probably a whole host of things I'm not even thinking about. The last time I did this, I asked the local cable company what they charged and it was $300 to shoot a spot and air it for a period of time (might have been 6 months, late night ad spot). I don't remember the specific details, it was about ten years ago. I would need to contact them, see what their current rates are and see what I can realistically charge for my services. $300 for production plus airtime is hypercompetitive, I don't know that I could do it for less than $600 if I have to factor in their charge to air it (assuming it is still the same). In that case, why come to me, why not just have the cable company do it and save some money? Given the quality of most public-access advertisement, it seems like a lot of small businesses would be highly price sensitive and not want more than to have the owner jump in front of the camera for 30 seconds, so paying extra for creativity or higher production values probably seems pointless (to them).

[John Bigboote]

A GREAT RESOURCE to learning about shooting in a professional environment with DSLR is a guy named Jem Scofield's website -theC47.com

 

http://www.thec47.com/

[Paul Forwood]

I just managed to catch my son online. He is pretty clued up and works with pro cameras as well as pro-sumer equipment. This was his response:

 

Paul: Hi Josh! A quick question: What is the DSLR that you keep refering to as useful for filming

 

... and does it have image stabilization?

 

Josh: 7d is the best one in a decent budget for filming

 

Paul: There is a guy on A:M forums considering one but some say that filming HD on a DSLR, for more than 20 minutes, causes them to overheat and burn out, damaging the camera permanently.

 

Josh: I'm not sure about that

the only real limit is the speed of the memory cards

if it cant write quick enough it has to stop to buffer every 10-20 mins

 

Paul: Can you recommend a lower end, pro video cam?

 

Josh: What sort of budget is (s)he looking at?

 

Don't ask. (low)

 

If he can stretch to it, a second hand Sony Z1 if he wants a pro video cam

Otherwise, in order of price starting low and getting higher, 550D, 7D, 5D

It depends really what he wants to use it for though

 

Paul: Weddings, commercials, hobby jobs etc.

 

Josh: built in sound system on SLR's (even when using external mics) is terrible so you really need to record audio seperately on SLRs

SLR's are quite good for weddings as people tend to quite like the depth of field effect and the focal range you can get with the lenses means you can easily get up close and personal when its important

I'd recommend he gets a 7D with ultra-fast memory cards and he shouldn't have a problem

 

Hope that adds something useful.

[Wildsided]

Until we get a bigger budget we use a Kodak Zi8 camera for our web show. It records up to 1080p, has a Macro function for close up video and has a standard 3.5mm jack for attaching an external Microphone. You can pick them up on ebay for a reasonable price (Amazon sells them for nearly 300 dollars but we got ours for about 100). We also recently ordered a wide angle lens attachment for about $10.

 

I'm happy with the results it puts out. I spose it depends what you want to do. The Camera also has a standard Tripod jack.

[Roger]

Being realistic, I cannot spend more than $1500 on a camera. Probably more towards the 1k end. Most HD video cams are probably going to be out of my budget, unless I bought something used or found a really great sale.

 

I think if I just want it for doing my own shorts, then my current DV cam is probably fine. I don't need to worry about impressing anyone. If I wanted better quality video and/or the capability to do hobby level photography also, maybe I should look into picking up something like a Canon Powershot.

 

I don't know that I will be able to drum up enough business to justify a $2k or $4k camera.

[ernesttx]

A few other websites with active forums:

 

www.dvxuser.com

www.dvinfo.net

 

Lots of discussions about cameras, setups, editing, lenses, directing, etc. Both pro and hobby. Both DSLR and pro camera discussions.

 

And Wildsided, I love the Zi8s. I have 5 of them and I just set them up around an event in strategic places and just let them record for a few hours.

[Roger]

Thanks everyone for your input. I'll have to do some research and think about what I really want to do before I make a decision.

[pixelplucker]

Which ever route you go make sure you have a manual focus option. That is the biggest drawback with the digitals. There are some really nice DSLR's that have non-interchangeable lenses such as the Nikon p500 but it is the Canons version of that that has a mf.

 

If you want to concentrate on the movie side your best bet is a video camera. The DSLR's are ok for quickie movies but don't replace video cameras. As a note since these are all ccd, ccd's in general tend to die, loose focus etc so don't waste money on 2nd hand.