What I'm working on...

[TheSpleen]

deffinantly keeping an eye on this topic!

[Rodney]

When I get a chance, I'll post some images to show the differences.

 

Looking forward to it David!

[itsjustme]

I had a little time this evening, so I did a couple of renders to show the relaxed shoulders. Here are two "T" pose images of Sam, one with the shoulders unrelaxed (the old setup) and one with his shoulders relaxed (the updated model) and an image of Bertram with his shoulders relaxed in the "T" pose. I also rendered out a twelve frame Quicktime to show sort of what Bertram's shoulders will look like when his arms are lowered...there are still things to fix, it's just for a quick illustration.

 

You'll notice from the differences in the Sam images that I've been modeling characters with their shoulders too hunched. I would adjust the shoulders by lowering them when animating (what little I've done, mostly tests), which is not the way to go...a lesson I should have learned years ago.

 

I should have some more time over the next couple of days...I'll see if I can get some work done on the face rig update and add the bowing pose to the Quad feet.

Bertram_shoulders_07_08_2009_H264.mov

[TheSpleen]

looking great.

Shoulders look good relaxed.

[robcat2075]

that looks good.

 

One detail I noticed is that the armpit area of the shirt actually is going up when he lowers his arm. I don't have a suggestion for solving that.

[itsjustme]

One detail I noticed is that the armpit area of the shirt actually is going up when he lowers his arm. I don't have a suggestion for solving that.

 

Yessir, there is still some CP Weighting to do...and probably a fan bone or two. Thanks, Robert!

[itsjustme]

I got a few things done since my last post. I tweaked the shoulders in the rig a little so that it is now possible to use the shoulder controllers to squetch (previously you had to unhide the shoulder squetch null, now you will be able to squetch the shoulder either way). Because of Bertram's construction, I'm probably going to be using a fair amount of shoulder squetching, so, bonus. I also added foot bowing to the Quad Rig. Tonight I'm going to do more work on the face rig to see if I can get what I'm after there.

[steve392]

The shoulder sounds good,doese the foot arch then with the bowing David

[itsjustme]

The shoulder sounds good,doese the foot arch then with the bowing David

 

Yessir, the foot will bow/arch on the Quad Rig like the other bowing poses. A quadruped's feet are generally rotated so that the quad is walking on it's toes, so adding the foot bowing helps to give a more consistent look if you are bowing the rest of the leg. Here's a quick example video with the geometry bones unhidden, Steve. The only controls being rotated in the video are the IK foot controllers and toe controls.

Quad_foot_bowing_07_11_2009.mov

[mtpeak2]

Looks cool. Can't wait to see all your updates.

[steve392]

Thats looking good ,it works very smooth ,is it done with waiting David

[itsjustme]

Looks cool. Can't wait to see all your updates.

 

I just shot you some links, Mark.

 

Thats looking good ,it works very smooth ,is it done with waiting David

 

The legs do use CP Weighting, there's a lot of CP Weighting required in the the rig in general. The foot bowing uses the same setup as the calves, so it was a quick addition.

[itsjustme]

Tonight I fixed the foot squetching in the Quad...adding the foot bowing introduced a problem, but it should be fixed now. I also made "human feet" versions of the Quad because the setup I had in there wasn't as convertible as I had originally thought. Now, I'm back to the face rig update again...hopefully, I'll be able to show something soon.

[itsjustme]

Today I separated the toe squetching from the foot squetching, made the toe squetching controlled by scaling the toe controls, fixed the 'Z' rotation of the toes and updated the toe add-ons for the biped and Quad versions of the rig. I'll do a bunch of testing and double-checking on the updates tomorrow...and try to get back on the face rig update again.

 

Here's a quick clip showing the toe squetching update.

foot_squetching_07_16_2009.mov

[steve392]

Wow he sure is a bendy strechy guy,that looks good ,could do a lot with that I think.You could make some real funny stuff

[itsjustme]

It's been a very busy couple of weeks at work again...so, normal. I did manage to update the biped and Quad installation rigs and add-ons with the latest foot squetching setup and have done quite a bit of testing to make sure I didn't miss anything...of course, I'll continue testing as I go along. It looks like I'll be able to eliminate 24 compensates in the biped rig (which would leave around 75...still quite a few, but better than it was), possibly three more if my thinking is right. That will also mean I can eliminate some in the Quad rig, but I'm not sure how many yet (at least 8, but probably more)...I'll get on that tomorrow and then start testing to see if I broke anything in making the changes.

 

I'll have to go back and update two of the tutorial videos because of the latest additions, but that shouldn't take more than an hour or so when I can get back to it. Things continue to get better in the rig...just not in the direction I intended at the moment (I still need to get back to the face rig update and then the gut rig).

[itsjustme]

I did some work and I think I got the compensates down to 57 in the biped rig...still a lot of testing before that is confirmed, but I think that's where it's at so far. I've got some more tweaks that should make installation a little easier that I'm going to work on tonight and then I've got to get the Quad Rig caught up.

[itsjustme]

I'm down to 21 compensates remaining in the biped rig...I'm pretty sure (not 100% though) I can get rid of all of them except one, which wouldn't be a bad thing. Still a lot of testing to do and then update and test the Quad Rig. I'll be back on it late tonight. Then, back on the face rig update and the gut rig.

[Rodney]

I'm down to 21 compensates remaining in the biped rig...I'm pretty sure (not 100% though) I can get rid of all of them except one

 

Thats pretty crazy.

 

I hope you are going to let us in on the secret of how you reduced all of those constraints.

[itsjustme]

I'm down to 21 compensates remaining in the biped rig...I'm pretty sure (not 100% though) I can get rid of all of them except one

 

Thats pretty crazy.

 

I hope you are going to let us in on the secret of how you reduced all of those constraints.

 

Like everything else, it's simple once you see it. If the bone you are translating to is in the same location or the bone you are orienting like is oriented the same, it doesn't need a compensate. Here is an example Project with a simple arm...there are no compensates needed on the two "orient like" constraints because of the orientation of the targets.

 

For the rig, it just took a little more fancy footwork to get that accomplished. Some of the "aim at" constraints were replaced with "orient like", a few bones had to be added, etc.

v13_eliminating_compensates_example.zip

[Rodney]

If the bone you are translating to is in the same location or the bone you are orienting like is oriented the same, it doesn't need a compensate.

 

You are right. Too simple.

Probably why I would never have thought of it.

[strohbehn]

I'm down to 21 compensates remaining in the biped rig...I'm pretty sure (not 100% though) I can get rid of all of them except one, which wouldn't be a bad thing.

Are you saying that it may be possible, by the time you're done with this, to install the entire Squetch rig and only one compensate would need to be reset????

[itsjustme]

I'm down to 21 compensates remaining in the biped rig...I'm pretty sure (not 100% though) I can get rid of all of them except one, which wouldn't be a bad thing.

Are you saying that it may be possible, by the time you're done with this, to install the entire Squetch rig and only one compensate would need to be reset????

 

Yessir...actually, I think I can get rid of the one I thought I couldn't, so, no compensates. The biggest hurdle in installing the rig will now be the CP Weighting. Sometimes you just have to look at things sideways.

[mtpeak2]

That's great David.

 

The 2008 rig has no compensation either, it's pretty simple as long as you plan for it.

[itsjustme]

That's great David.

 

The 2008 rig has no compensation either, it's pretty simple as long as you plan for it.

 

The 2008 Rig kicks ass, incredibly good job on it, Mark! Also, I want to express my gratitude for all of your help on the Squetch Rig...I don't think I can say that enough.

 

I tend to be kind of myopic when I'm working on something, so obvious things can easily get by me, unfortunately. Going over everything in the rig as much as I have over the past year has brought about a ton of improvements. I kick myself sometimes because I feel like I should have caught them the first time.

 

As an illustration of one of the changes, here is a Zip containing the old version of Squetchy Sam's tongue (contains compensates and "aim at" constraints) and the updated version (no compensates).

Sams_tongue_differences_08_06_2009.zip

[mtpeak2]

I don't know about kickin ass, it's ok.

 

Once you get rid of all the compensates in the squetch rig, the 2008 rig won't be needed anymore. That's why I built it in the first place, so people didn't have to recompensate the constraints.

[Shelton]

Mark your rig is awesome!!

 

David can't wait to see the changes. Looking forward to rigging Cupid's Sick characters. I hope I don't drive you guys nuts over the next few months.

 

 

 

Steve

[itsjustme]

I don't know about kickin ass, it's ok.

 

Once you get rid of all the compensates in the squetch rig, the 2008 rig won't be needed anymore. That's why I built it in the first place, so people didn't have to recompensate the constraints.

 

Nosir, I disagree...the 2008 rig kicks ass. The Squetch Rig still isn't going to be everyone's "cup 'o tea" and the 2008 rig is easy to install, "bullet-proof" and full-featured. It is definitely needed. One of these days, we will manage to convince you of your awesomeness, Mark. I'm still thinking about a "Mark kicks ass" float for the parade in your honor...just be prepared to wave to the crowd for the entire three mile parade route.

[itsjustme]

Just to keep people updated, I got rid of all of the compensates in the biped rig a couple of weeks ago...I still have an installation issue I need to fix on part of the face rig. I haven't done much on this for the past couple of weeks...lots of overtime at work. I should have time this week...hopefully, I'll get over my present hurdle quickly.

[itsjustme]

I finished getting the biped rig installation problems worked out and have started catching the Quad installation rigs up...still a lot of testing to do on everything.

 

The thing I worked on might be helpful to others, so I made a quick example model that I'll attach to this post.

 

The intention is to keep the roll handles of the cheek and jowl pointing forward so that those bones are facing the front of the character. In the example model (and in the actual rig), the bones can turn the wrong direction, but only if you move their origins where they shouldn't go. The cheek's origin should always be above the "nostril_target" and the jowl's origin should always be below it. If that is true, the roll handles should remain oriented so that they point toward the front of the character (ignoring whether they are also pointing up or down, that part doesn't matter)...at least I haven't found it to not work in the tests I've run.

 

This update will eliminate one of the manual adjustments in the installation process caused by some of the Expressions used in the face rig.

installation_testing_08_25_2009.zip

[steve392]

Took a look and it work's very well David .I don't really understand the how of it but it looks complex with all the bones that make it happen

[itsjustme]

Took a look and it work's very well David .I don't really understand the how of it but it looks complex with all the bones that make it happen

 

It's pretty much just a bone set to "aim at" and "translate to" a target bone on each end with an identical child bone and a bone flipped upside down with "aim at" and "translate to" constraints pointing at the same target bones (but flipped). Bones set up like that will roll on their 'Z', so usually I use an "aim roll at" constraint to control the roll, but in this case the target would have to do some moving...so I went another direction. The child bone will rotate on its' 'Z' the same as its' parent, but, it also has an Expression on it that will rotate it like the 'Z' of the counter rotating bone (which rotates in the opposite direction of the parent because of its' orientation). The biggest thing, was to change the order of rotation on the counter-rotating bone to "XYZ", or it would flip the 'Z' rotation (which made it jump to correct itself).

 

Hope that clears it up, Steve.

[mtpeak2]

Seems to work for me, David, though I didn't check to see after export.

[itsjustme]

Seems to work for me, David, though I didn't check to see after export.

 

I haven't checked after export...I'll have to do that tonight. Thanks, Mark!

[itsjustme]

Great call, Mark! Exporting the previous model did change the 'Z' rotation some, but changing the "Roll method" to "Roll-History" appears to have fixed things. While I was at it, I changed the "Euler order" to "XYZ" on all of the rotating bones. I haven't run a test on the updated model that got it to break...but I'll do more testing tomorrow night to be sure. I'll attach the updated model here if anyone wants to mess with it.

 

I also updated the biped installation rigs with the fix.

installation_testing_08_29_2009.zip

[Shelton]

Thanks David for all the hard work!! I just got at it tonight I started rigging the characters I will keep you informed

 

Steve

[itsjustme]

Another quick update on the progress. I finished getting rid of the compensates in the Quad Rig tonight (still have to do a lot of testing...actually, I think I have to do a quick update to the tail), which will catch it up with the state of the biped rig. Next I'm going to work on the face rig upgrade, adapt that for addition in the Quad Rig and then finish the gut rig.

[kwhitaker]

Hi itsjustme'

I have been waiting for your Quad rig, I have a cat, that's rigged with 3D Artz. not sure if that's the way to, go. but it works OK, not the greatest rig, I don't think it was intended as a Quard rig . but with a good rig, It will sure help

so thanks for working so hard.

[itsjustme]

It's been a while since I posted an update on what progress I'm making, so I figured I should mention what I'm doing.

 

I've been working on updating the tail for the Quad, which would also be used for the biped...which I'm hoping to use for some other things as well, if everything goes right. I started with several possible directions that are starting to combine into a multiple control setup. It still has a lot of evolving to do before it gets to the point where I can get opinions, but I'm starting to get some things that I think could be useful.

 

I'm going through an extreme lack of free time lately, so it's not moving as fast as I'd like, but I'm still trudging forward a little at a time.

[itsjustme]

I finally got a little free time and did more work on the tail rig. I got most of what I'm after, but still have a lot to do. I'm going to tear a few things back out in order to simplify some of the controls and work on some more tweaks. If I'm lucky, I might be able to show what I've got sometime next week.

[Shelton]

Hi David

 

I loaded a squetch rig model from several versions back into AM v15g and I could not select the model in the chor. In fact the model kept crashing. However, I removed the rig and deleted all the relationships and now AM seems to working. Would you take a look at the model?

 

Steve

[itsjustme]

Hi David

 

I loaded a squetch rig model from several versions back into AM v15g and I could not select the model in the chor. In fact the model kept crashing. However, I removed the rig and deleted all the relationships and now AM seems to working. Would you take a look at the model?

 

Steve

 

I haven't come across a problem like that...throw it at me and I'll see if I can figure it out, Steve.

[NancyGormezano]

Hi David

 

I loaded a squetch rig model from several versions back into AM v15g and I could not select the model in the chor. In fact the model kept crashing. However, I removed the rig and deleted all the relationships and now AM seems to working. Would you take a look at the model?

 

Steve

 

I haven't come across a problem like that...throw it at me and I'll see if I can figure it out, Steve.

 

It's a problem with 15g - the models with the squetch rig used in Tinwoodman work in 15g, the ones with the new squetch (used in Scarecrow) don't work in 15g (I believe lite rig has same problem, not sure)...they all work in ver 15 e,f...Perhaps it is related to which version of A:M the model got rigged?

[itsjustme]

Hi David

 

I loaded a squetch rig model from several versions back into AM v15g and I could not select the model in the chor. In fact the model kept crashing. However, I removed the rig and deleted all the relationships and now AM seems to working. Would you take a look at the model?

 

Steve

 

I haven't come across a problem like that...throw it at me and I'll see if I can figure it out, Steve.

 

It's a problem with 15g - the models with the squetch rig used in Tinwoodman work in 15g, the ones with the new squetch (used in Scarecrow) don't work in 15g (I believe lite rig has same problem, not sure)...they all work in ver 15 e,f...Perhaps it is related to which version of A:M the model got rigged?

 

I just checked (in v15g) a few models I have that were rigged in v13t...they work fine. Those have versions of the rig that have been worked on in the past year, so maybe there's something different. I know that Expressions have changed slightly since the original TWO characters were rigged and now require some parentheses to be added, but that's the only thing that I think have been encountered prior to this problem.

 

If I can get a model from someone that is confirmed to not work, I'll do some checking...either post it in this thread or shoot me an e-mail.

 

 

----------------------------------

EDIT

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I'm thinking I should release a rig update when I get the tail done, but before I get the face rig update finished...there have been so many updates and fixes, I feel like it's due (then, I'll post another update once the face rig update is finished). I'll also want to make sure this new problem is taken care of.

[NancyGormezano]

The test I did in 15g:

 

start new default chor with Trot only (rigged in 15e?) - can select trot, can switch between director/chor mode & skeletal mode - however eventually it seems that at some point (very quickly) can not switch modes in chor on that model by selecting trot in chor window, nor in pws - try it

 

I think it's a selection type thing - maybe related to new filtering change in 15g? - maybe related to new compensation default change in 15g ?

 

However if add tinwoodman (rigged in 13s,t) to same chor in 15g with trot - can switch modes between director and skeletal on tinwoodman, but something is still funny with trot

 

Both models work as should in 15e chors - can switch between skeletal and director mode

[Shelton]

I remembered reading something that Ken and David posted to Holmes about the rig. Both were using 15g. David do you want me to send you my model or do you have enough with SO characters?

 

Steve

[itsjustme]

I remembered reading something that Ken and David posted to Holmes about the rig. Both were using 15g. David do you want me to send you my model or do you have enough with SO characters?

 

Steve

 

Send me your model too, Steve...it will give me more things to compare. I haven't been keeping up with the SO characters, if someone could point me at Trot, I'll take a look.

[NancyGormezano]

path: SO/Data/Actors/Trot/Trot.mdl

 

but in case you don't have SO database - here is trot model - no decals, materials

TrotNOdecals.mdl

[itsjustme]

The model bone was hidden in the "Show_and_Hide_Rig_Components/hide_face_setup_bones/mouth/hide_mouth_lr_bones" Pose...easy fix. I've fixed it in the next update versions as well. Here is an updated Trot.

 

Hope that helps.

TrotNOdecals_update.mdl

[NancyGormezano]

Hmmm...Very Interesting...Yes - it works for me now...but I wonder what changed in 15g to have this show up (same rig wasn't a problem in previous versions)...

 

Yay David!