please take a look at my project

[thefreshestever]

hi @ all,

here are some screenshots, renderings and a short qt-movie from the actual project i´m working on.

 

please tell me what you think about the characters, lightning, etc, i´m sure you can find some critical points i haven´t thought of yet.

 

i have a few questions:

 

1. the forces setting: i want to have a slow breeze flowing through the grass and the tree... the movie is my very first attempt with forces, i know it´s much much too fast etc... but i was wondering if anyone of you could give ma advice about the settings on the force and the hair-materials. sure, i could figure it out by try and error, but maybe some of you guys figured some good settings out for the effect i want to achieve and i can save some hours of my precious time ...

 

2. rigging: i want to rig the characters with the squetchrig (would be my 2nd try, the first one didn´t really work out ) the question is if you guys who have experience with the squetchrig see any problems with the splineage of my characters, maybe there´s a splinering too much or too less to get good results...

 

3. the terrain: at the moment the terrain is´n very big (it seems bigger than it really is in the rendering), but i need to get it bigger. problem is that the grass population slows down my rendertimes enormous, the picture you see here took about 17 minutes (big render, 1024x768 with 16pass... think that´s ok, but if the terrain get´s much bigger it will be much slower too...) does anyone have some tips and tricks to improve the render times on big grass-populated landscapes?

 

4. dust on the ground: i tried to add some dust to the ground, that it looks more like a real savanna, i tried volumetrics (experimented with dust and mist, but couldn´t get them look good), i also tried out sprite-emitters, but i couldn´t get them slow enough in the movement... how would you do that?

 

i can´t get no sleep anymore because of all this questions in my head, night by night im sitting on my couch with my macbook thinking: "let´s quickly try this one out before you go to sleep", and then i look at the time and it´s 4.30 am.... dammit!

 

so pleeeease help me!

 

thanks ahead to all...

windtest.mov

[KenH]

Nice project.

 

1) I don't have much experience with forces but your test seems abit too fast and strong.

 

2) Splines look ok.

 

3) You probably don't need grass further than what you have. See how it looks without. But if you need grass, don't use hair. Maybe a repeating grass image on a patch surrounding the set would do as well.

 

4) Did you do the dust foot step in the manual? Particles is probably the way to go.

[thefreshestever]

3) You probably don't need grass further than what you have. See how it looks without. But if you need grass, don't use hair. Maybe a repeating grass image on a patch surrounding the set would do as well.

 

4) Did you do the dust foot step in the manual? Particles is probably the way to go.

 

thanks,

 

i´ll surely try to save grass population wherever i can, but i think the characters will walk a bit through the landscape, so there has to be good looking hair-grass everywhere near the camara-position, i guess i have to fiddle a bit

 

yeah i did the dust foot step in the manual, for a little bit of dust that works pretty well, but when in try to cover a wide range of ground with it it doesn´t really look good, even if i add some extra turbulence etc...

 

greets...

[NancyGormezano]

you probably don't have to go 16 pass - 5 passes would be good enough - maybe even less - try it. Will cut down on render times.

 

I'm curious as to which tribe/region of Africa that you are trying to portray?

[thefreshestever]

you probably don't have to go 16 pass - 5 passes would be good enough - maybe even less - try it. Will cut down on render times.

 

I'm curious as to which tribe/region of Africa that you are trying to portray?

 

thanks..

 

seriously, i have no idea... any suggestions? i don´t even know if the outfit of the girl fits to the half-naked guy, tribe-wise...

the idea for that only came to me when asked myself: what kind of nature-shot can i do without having to populate it that much with grass and trees ... and the answer was africa...

[detbear]

you probably don't have to go 16 pass - 5 passes would be good enough - maybe even less - try it. Will cut down on render times.

 

I'm curious as to which tribe/region of Africa that you are trying to portray?

 

thanks..

 

seriously, i have no idea... any suggestions? i don´t even know if the outfit of the girl fits to the half-naked guy, tribe-wise...

the idea for that only came to me when asked myself: what kind of nature-shot can i do without having to populate it that much with grass and trees ... and the answer was africa...

 

 

HEY....

 

Honestly, if it were me....I would not use hair for the grass at all. It doesn't look very natural....and your characters have a more "Toon" style. I really like your characters by the way....Very nicely done.

 

Consider trying to limit the movements of the grass and tree elements because it takes the viewers attention off of the characters and story. VERY subtle movements will take your production further than trying to crowd it with too much business......KEEP WORKING on the grass stuff(using hair) but save it for another project until you have more experience with how it works. For now....some good textured stuff with simple structure will win the viewers attention to the story without being distracted. AND I'll bet your product will actually turn out better than if you threw all the wind and grass junk in there.

 

Kevin

Professional Animator

[NancyGormezano]

 

I'm curious as to which tribe/region of Africa that you are trying to portray?

 

seriously, i have no idea... any suggestions? i don´t even know if the outfit of the girl fits to the half-naked guy, tribe-wise...

the idea for that only came to me when asked myself: what kind of nature-shot can i do without having to populate it that much with grass and trees ... and the answer was africa...

 

This is potentially touchy. The caricature nature of the characters might be a bit too stereotypic looking in an unflattering way. It also depends on your audience (is this for a class? private project ?). It also depends on your story.

 

If you are not of african descent - you may end up offending those who are. It depends on whether you want to be sensitive to that. The physical exaggerated depiction of the man's face is probably the more potentially offensive.

 

I am not of African descent. So my opinion is one of an outsider.

 

The landscape reminds me of East Africa - particularly the savannah type areas - rift valley of Kenya, Tanzania. or even southern Africa areas of Zimbabwe, Namibia, Botswana, South Africa.

 

The loin cloth outfit of the guy could be from the bushmen (!kung or San bushmen) of southern africa (but without the neck rings) - the woman's headdress could be from western africa - but her top & skirt is not familiar to me as to where to suggest where it comes from. The San or !Kung bushmen women today typically cover up more (I believe). But I don't know what they really wear "when not being photographed".

 

I find the masai (or maasai) tribe particularly interesting looking - they are found in Kenya in areas that look like your landscape.

But they wear different, colorful outfits and probably would mean too much change for your characters. (do a google on masai and then look at images). The masai women would wear neck rings made of colorful beads.

 

If this project is mainly for you as a learning experience - then don't worry about it. If it is to be shown to a class (of mixed cultures) or published elsewhere - you may want to research a bit more on how you want to caricature the people. This is only my opinion.

[thefreshestever]

 

I'm curious as to which tribe/region of Africa that you are trying to portray?

 

seriously, i have no idea... any suggestions? i don´t even know if the outfit of the girl fits to the half-naked guy, tribe-wise...

the idea for that only came to me when asked myself: what kind of nature-shot can i do without having to populate it that much with grass and trees ... and the answer was africa...

 

This is potentially touchy. The caricature nature of the characters might be a bit too stereotypic looking in an unflattering way. It also depends on your audience (is this for a class? private project ?). It also depends on your story.

 

If you are not of african descent - you may end up offending those who are. It depends on whether you want to be sensitive to that. The physical exaggerated depiction of the man's face is probably the more potentially offensive.

 

I am not of African descent. So my opinion is one of an outsider.

 

The landscape reminds me of East Africa - particularly the savannah type areas - rift valley of Kenya, Tanzania. or even southern Africa areas of Zimbabwe, Namibia, Botswana, South Africa.

 

The loin cloth outfit of the guy could be from the bushmen (!kung or San bushmen) of southern africa (but without the neck rings) - the woman's headdress could be from western africa - but her top & skirt is not familiar to me as to where to suggest where it comes from. The San or !Kung bushmen women today typically cover up more (I believe). But I don't know what they really wear "when not being photographed".

 

I find the masai (or maasai) tribe particularly interesting looking - they are found in Kenya in areas that look like your landscape.

But they wear different, colorful outfits and probably would mean too much change for your characters. (do a google on masai and then look at images). The masai women would wear neck rings made of colorful beads.

 

If this project is mainly for you as a learning experience - then don't worry about it. If it is to be shown to a class (of mixed cultures) or published elsewhere - you may want to research a bit more on how you want to caricature the people. This is only my opinion.

thanks nancy, but isn´t caricature about stereotypics? what do you really mean with offensive? if i´d do a white character with a long big nose and stuff would you find it offensive? would you ask if he´s from the netherlands or belgium or from somewhere else? sorry, but i really can´t get your point... by the way, it´s for no one else than me, just trying to have some fun... don´t get me wrong, i really wasn´t thinking about that stuff @ all, but i think if anyone doesn´t, the world would be a better place... this really isn´t something serious, just comedy, everything should be allowed, or am i wrong? i have some african friends, maybe i should ask them what they think about that, but i can´t imagine they would have any problems with that kind of caricature, i´ll let you know if they do...

[NancyGormezano]

thanks nancy, but isn´t caricature about stereotypics? what do you really mean with offensive? if i´d do a white character with a long big nose and stuff would you find it offensive? would you ask if he´s from the netherlands or belgium or from somewhere else? sorry, but i really can´t get your point... by the way, it´s for no one else than me, just trying to have some fun... don´t get me wrong, i really wasn´t thinking about that stuff @ all, but i think if anyone doesn´t, the world would be a better place... this really isn´t something serious, just comedy, everything should be allowed, or am i wrong? i have some african friends, maybe i should ask them what they think about that, but i can´t imagine they would have any problems with that kind of caricature, i´ll let you know if they do...

 

Hi again thefreshestever

 

First, I forgot to say that I found your characters very well modeled, and look forward to seeing what you are going to do with the story/setting. I love Africa. I love the African people. I've been to Africa 4 times. And I'm also a birder - so the vulture (which is excellent) also jumped out at me. I love the landscape.

 

I really hesitated to write what I did - because I too feel that a lot of things are taken too seriously. Since you are sort of new to the forum - you don't know that I can be really off the wall (and also unintentionally offend people). And I can be very outrageous at times (ok, a lot or most of the time), and some people won't like it. I find I have to tone myself down when posting or I might be banned for life.

 

To maybe put it into perspective: I have found that it's usually ok to make fun of ourselves - or to poke fun at our own tribe, religion, country, family, mother. But if someone who we don't know from outside that tribe, country, religion, family makes fun, people quite often take offense. They could find it prejudiced, bigoted - even if that wasn't the intent, or feeling behind the work. It's up to you to decide if you want to take the chance.

 

I am probably of a different generation than you (ok...I am an old person). The male character looks very much like a character resembling those from a "black face" minstrel show (very offensive to older african americans today if done by white folk) - or civil war slave depictions...or the illustrations in little black sambo - a childrens book. Or resembling a monkey ...I believe my older african american friends might take offense at your male character. But I really don't know.

 

I think you have a great idea in showing it to your friends and asking their opinion - because their opinion would be more valid than my guessing. I would be curious to know what their parents thought of it as well. I truly hope I am wrong.

 

I am a firm believer in comedy - It's much more preferable than taking one's self seriously.

 

Nancy

[robcat2075]

thanks nancy, but isn´t caricature about stereotypics? what do you really mean with offensive? if i´d do a white character with a long big nose and stuff would you find it offensive? would you ask if he´s from the netherlands or belgium or from somewhere else?

This seems to come up quite a bit in animation discussions

 

fps magazine founder Emru Townsend made this comment about black stereotypes in cartoons

When people defend racist cartoons, one of the stock arguments is that it’s unreasonable to be offended that black people are portrayed unflatteringly; after all, Elmer Fudd isn’t usually presented as a brilliant or capable man.

 

It’s a bit ironic, then, that some of the animation and gags in this cartoon (All this and Rabbit Stew) featuring the Stepin Fetchit-like Little Sambo were recycled for Elmer Fudd in The Big Snooze five years later. The parallel is convenient because it directly points up the flaw in that stock argument: Elmer Fudd’s flaws are never attributed to his being white. That’s the crucial difference. Sambo’s lackadaisical walk and the cadence of his drawl are both key elements of the “shiftless Negro” stereotype that performer Lincoln Perry hadn’t created, but perfected as Fetchit; and they were recognized as traits that were intrinsic to the black male. The same goes for the gag toward the end where Bugs Bunny presents a pair of dice and Sambo is seized by the uncontrollable urge to play craps—one of the many uncontrollable urges that were supposedly built-in.

 

I guess if you are making a cartoon about something as specific as black tribal people in Africa you'd want to have something significant to say about them rather than just use them as foils for worn out gags. Maybe you're doing a traditional African Folk tale.

 

I remember Charles Schulz explaining why he didn't make much use of his "Franklin" character. He decided that he didn't really know enough about the experience of a black 10-year old boy to do it properly.

 

Good looking meshes on your characters, though!

[thefreshestever]

thanks nancy, but isn´t caricature about stereotypics? what do you really mean with offensive? if i´d do a white character with a long big nose and stuff would you find it offensive? would you ask if he´s from the netherlands or belgium or from somewhere else? sorry, but i really can´t get your point... by the way, it´s for no one else than me, just trying to have some fun... don´t get me wrong, i really wasn´t thinking about that stuff @ all, but i think if anyone doesn´t, the world would be a better place... this really isn´t something serious, just comedy, everything should be allowed, or am i wrong? i have some african friends, maybe i should ask them what they think about that, but i can´t imagine they would have any problems with that kind of caricature, i´ll let you know if they do...

 

Hi again thefreshestever

 

First, I forgot to say that I found your characters very well modeled, and look forward to seeing what you are going to do with the story/setting. I love Africa. I love the African people. I've been to Africa 4 times. And I'm also a birder - so the vulture (which is excellent) also jumped out at me. I love the landscape.

 

I really hesitated to write what I did - because I too feel that a lot of things are taken too seriously. Since you are sort of new to the forum - you don't know that I can be really off the wall (and also unintentionally offend people). And I can be very outrageous at times (ok, a lot or most of the time), and some people won't like it. I find I have to tone myself down when posting or I might be banned for life.

 

To maybe put it into perspective: I have found that it's usually ok to make fun of ourselves - or to poke fun at our own tribe, religion, country, family, mother. But if someone who we don't know from outside that tribe, country, religion, family makes fun, people quite often take offense. They could find it prejudiced, bigoted - even if that wasn't the intent, or feeling behind the work. It's up to you to decide if you want to take the chance.

 

I am probably of a different generation than you (ok...I am an old person). The male character looks very much like a character resembling those from a "black face" minstrel show (very offensive to older african americans today if done by white folk) - or civil war slave depictions...or the illustrations in little black sambo - a childrens book. Or resembling a monkey ...I believe my older african american friends might take offense at your male character. But I really don't know.

 

I think you have a great idea in showing it to your friends and asking their opinion - because their opinion would be more valid than my guessing. I would be curious to know what their parents thought of it as well. I truly hope I am wrong.

 

I am a firm believer in comedy - It's much more preferable than taking one's self seriously.

 

Nancy

 

no problem nancy, everyone is allowed to say his opinion here. maybe you´re right about the age thing, i guess it really makes a difference if you ask younger or older people. you got me thinking... and thanks, i´m really glad you like my characters.

 

by the way, my name is sebastian...

[DarkLimit]

-I think ur doing a fantastic job here, I love how efficient ur splines are-

 

-I look forward to more updates-

 

-I will leave advice up to the pros-

[jakerupert]

>This is potentially touchy. The caricature nature of the characters might be a bit too stereotypic looking in an unflattering way. It also depends on your audience (is this for a class? private project ?). It also depends on your story.

 

If you are not of african descent - you may end up offending those who are. It depends on whether you want to be sensitive to that. The physical exaggerated depiction of the man's face is probably the more potentially offensive.

 

 

 

Don`t let that kind of "scissors in the head" block your creativity!!!!

 

It ends up with doing no more caricatures of Mohammed for fear of geting killed by some Muslim fanatics.

 

Just imagine designing some black man with white mans bone features and then just painting him black.

Maybe that would also offend some black people for looking so silly?!

 

;>) Jake

 

I love these models and look forward for that movie.

[frosteternal]

... i guess it really makes a difference if you ask younger or older people. you got me thinking... and thanks, i´m really glad you like my characters.

 

I think the main thing is don't make the story revolve around a string of racially offensive jokes.

Does that mean you can't have Africans in your story about Africa? Of course not!

Many people today are WAAAAAAYYYY over-sensitive about race, in general.

Were black americans wronged in the past? Heck yeah! Can we ever "fix" that? Nope, just move on.

I refuse to feel guilty over something I personally had nothing to do with.

 

But what do I know, I'm American, white, and male. That's three strikes against me right there!

Thank goodness I'm technically living in poverty, or I'd get no respect.

 

(http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/ provides a counter-stereotype)

 

By the way, your modeling is wonderful - now make a good story, too!

(Just make sure there is an evil American industrialist in your story and then you'll have a hit. Kidding!!!)

[Eric2575]

Sebastian:

 

Really nice work you've got going there. Love the style and layout. Keep it going and keep us posted. If you're as good at animating as you are at modeling these characters, then we're in for a treat.

 

Eric

[NancyGormezano]

(Just make sure there is an evil American industrialist in your story and then you'll have a hit. Kidding!!!)

 

No no... it would be way more hysterically funny stereotypically wise if there was an fascist nazi descendant rascist intolerant insensitive german pig caricature in the story - left over from the really fun days of european colonization, invasion and WWII.

 

Now that would really be funny.

[frosteternal]

(Just make sure there is an evil American industrialist in your story and then you'll have a hit. Kidding!!!)

 

No no... it would be way more hysterically funny stereotypically wise if there was an fascist nazi descendant rascist intolerant insensitive german pig caricature in the story - left over from the really fun days of european colonization, invasion and WWII.

 

Now that would really be funny.

 

"Whee! I'll get the kids and we'll have us a family movie night!"

[thefreshestever]

thanks to all for the probs... but i don´t think that i´m that good at animating and storytelling as i am at modeling, unfortunately...

i like your ideas about adding some "black humor" (nice word-play here, he?) maybe kind of family-guy ill humor..

 

hey nancy: by the way, i am german

 

if anyone has some great ideas don´t hesitate do write them down here, i´m looking forward to it.

[PaulX]

Nicely modelled but I agree with a few others here that the characters and the male one in particular, could be offend.

[Eric2575]

Geez, I too am German. Am I offended by Nancy's German comments - No. Am I offended by any/all caricatures that portray caucasians in an unflattering way? No. Get a grip people. Maybe Sebastian should turn his charcters into bunnies, but then the animal rights groups would get offended.

[frosteternal]

... Maybe Sebastian should turn his charcters into bunnies, but then the animal rights groups would get offended.

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?act=A...st&id=27061

 

This extraordinarily civil discussion has reminded me why the people on the boards are some of the best on the 'net.

 

Sebastien - Your work is fantastic - now work on animating

[ChuckGram]

Those are some very good models and scenery Sebastien. I'm looking forward to seeing any updates. As far as "where" in Africa that would be, I'm thinking Cameroon probably has parts that still look like that.

[Nuba X]

hi @ all,

here are some screenshots, renderings and a short qt-movie from the actual project i´m working on.

 

please tell me what you think about the characters, lightning, etc, i´m sure you can find some critical points i haven´t thought of yet.

 

i have a few questions:

 

1. the forces setting: i want to have a slow breeze flowing through the grass and the tree... the movie is my very first attempt with forces, i know it´s much much too fast etc... but i was wondering if anyone of you could give ma advice about the settings on the force and the hair-materials. sure, i could figure it out by try and error, but maybe some of you guys figured some good settings out for the effect i want to achieve and i can save some hours of my precious time ...

 

2. rigging: i want to rig the characters with the squetchrig (would be my 2nd try, the first one didn´t really work out ) the question is if you guys who have experience with the squetchrig see any problems with the splineage of my characters, maybe there´s a splinering too much or too less to get good results...

 

3. the terrain: at the moment the terrain is´n very big (it seems bigger than it really is in the rendering), but i need to get it bigger. problem is that the grass population slows down my rendertimes enormous, the picture you see here took about 17 minutes (big render, 1024x768 with 16pass... think that´s ok, but if the terrain get´s much bigger it will be much slower too...) does anyone have some tips and tricks to improve the render times on big grass-populated landscapes?

 

4. dust on the ground: i tried to add some dust to the ground, that it looks more like a real savanna, i tried volumetrics (experimented with dust and mist, but couldn´t get them look good), i also tried out sprite-emitters, but i couldn´t get them slow enough in the movement... how would you do that?

 

i can´t get no sleep anymore because of all this questions in my head, night by night im sitting on my couch with my macbook thinking: "let´s quickly try this one out before you go to sleep", and then i look at the time and it´s 4.30 am.... dammit!

 

so pleeeease help me!

 

thanks ahead to all...

 

 

This is what I see when i saw your project!

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH4ivOyO0PQ...feature=related

[Nuba X]

hi @ all,

here are some screenshots, renderings and a short qt-movie from the actual project i´m working on.

 

please tell me what you think about the characters, lightning, etc, i´m sure you can find some critical points i haven´t thought of yet.

 

i have a few questions:

 

1. the forces setting: i want to have a slow breeze flowing through the grass and the tree... the movie is my very first attempt with forces, i know it´s much much too fast etc... but i was wondering if anyone of you could give ma advice about the settings on the force and the hair-materials. sure, i could figure it out by try and error, but maybe some of you guys figured some good settings out for the effect i want to achieve and i can save some hours of my precious time ...

 

2. rigging: i want to rig the characters with the squetchrig (would be my 2nd try, the first one didn´t really work out ) the question is if you guys who have experience with the squetchrig see any problems with the splineage of my characters, maybe there´s a splinering too much or too less to get good results...

 

3. the terrain: at the moment the terrain is´n very big (it seems bigger than it really is in the rendering), but i need to get it bigger. problem is that the grass population slows down my rendertimes enormous, the picture you see here took about 17 minutes (big render, 1024x768 with 16pass... think that´s ok, but if the terrain get´s much bigger it will be much slower too...) does anyone have some tips and tricks to improve the render times on big grass-populated landscapes?

 

4. dust on the ground: i tried to add some dust to the ground, that it looks more like a real savanna, i tried volumetrics (experimented with dust and mist, but couldn´t get them look good), i also tried out sprite-emitters, but i couldn´t get them slow enough in the movement... how would you do that?

 

i can´t get no sleep anymore because of all this questions in my head, night by night im sitting on my couch with my macbook thinking: "let´s quickly try this one out before you go to sleep", and then i look at the time and it´s 4.30 am.... dammit!

 

so pleeeease help me!

 

thanks ahead to all...

 

 

This is what I see when i saw your project!

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH4ivOyO0PQ...feature=related