BATMOBILE PROJECT

[oakchas]

Thanks Tom,

 

T Dogg is doin' most of the work here .. I'm just "Doggin' him" to get it done... Though I am also working on mine, just more slowly.

[Eric2575]

T Dogg, just to give you an idea, the body of my Saleen S7 without any chassis or interior is 4226 patches. As far as the body goes, that's just about done. I would recommend that you model the wheels and interior as a separate model. Once you are satisfied with the exterior of the Batmobile, copy it, and then paste it into a new model. That's just so you can line up the tires and interior to the body. Once pasted, go into the PWS and delete all group names - you don't need them since you will delete most of the body in a sec anyway. Now go back into the modeling window and delete most of the model, except for some key reference points such as the wheelwells, the basic outline of the interior, door lines, whatever helps you get a good reference for where you need to continue building the interior, etc. Once you have most of the model deleted, select the rest and name it "reference". This way you can easily select it later on, lock those cps, so they don't mess with what you are currently modeling, and once you're done with the interior and wheels, you can delete the "reference" completely. Since you pasted the reference model without moving it around, the original body model and the now finished interior model will line up perfectly when you import them to a chor.

 

There are many different ways of modleing a car, but this method has worked for me rather well. Since you are modeling the interior separately from the body, you won't have a problem with cp overload and the dreaded slowdown in the workflow.

 

The best part that I've found in modeling such a complex subject is the fact that you learn so much from it. What you are learning here will make future models better, faster, stronger...wait a minute, I haven't even seen the new Superman flick yet

 

Keep it going, you've gotten this far, just a bit more.

[R Reynolds]

If you're in the mood to really check the smoothness of your surfaces, try the following settings on each group.

 

diffuse colour= 128, 128, 128

specular colour = 255, 255, 255

specular size = 50

specular intensity = 50

 

Then rotate the surfaces and watch for unexpected changes in the specular highlights.

[Eric2575]

Rodger, now you're gonna give him a headache

[agep]

Nice progress guys Thumbs up

 

If you're in the mood to really check the smoothness of your surfaces, try the following settings on each group.......

Brilliant Rodger! Thanks for the smart trick

[T-Dogg]

Thanks for the tips, Eic and Rodger!

 

I haven't made any further progress on my model, but I did go back and do some tweaking. I cut my patch count from 2147 down to 1787 with no noticeable change in quality. It did require tweaking some bias handles in a few spots to keep things smooth, but I think it turned out pretty well.

 

I'm done tweaking for now. I want to go ahead and try to finish the back. Then I'll have the main body completed. There's still so much to be done after that, though. *sigh*

[Eric2575]

Get some sleep, T Dogg, it's waaaayyyyy to early into the project to be sighing already

[T-Dogg]

I did a little more work on the rear end. I'm still not 100% sure how to tie it all together yet, but I've got some good ideas. At least I made a little progress.

 

As always, any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[attachmentid=18695][attachmentid=18696]

[R Reynolds]

I think you're hurting yourself on a number of levels by making the wheel wells an integral part of the fender panels.

 

First it's not very accurate, especially for a car based on the Ford Futura. This type of bent edge on automotive sheet metal panels is typically about an inch or so and as proof see the attached picture of the Futura concept model and a close-up of the front fender on one of the original Batmobiles.

 

Secondly it makes the modeling of your wheel wells overly patch heavy since they have to share cp's with the contoured fender. I'd suggest you cut them off as I've shown and build much simpler wheel wells as part of the chassis. And build the wheel wells after you install the wheels so you can give them enough clearance.

[T-Dogg]

Far be it from me to argue with a superior modeller like Rodger... especially when the mistake he pointed out is as simple to fix as hitting the K key a few times! The wheel wells are now fixed.

 

I think I have pretty much got the main body of back end done now, other than adding some thickness to the trunk and fenders. Now comes all the extras, like the rocket engine and the parachutes and whatnot.

 

Here are some more recent pictures:

 

[attachmentid=18768][attachmentid=18769][attachmentid=18770]

[T-Dogg]

Well, I added the thickness around the edges that I had been meaning to do. I also fixed the doors. I had originally modelled the doors as going the entire height of the body, which of course was incorrect. Then I spent a whole lot of time tweaking control points in a desperate attempt to keep things smooth and keep splines rinning the way I wanted them to.

 

After all that, I took the pieces and did some copying, flipping, and attaching again. Then I slapped a little bit more of that cerise paint on the rear trim for effect.

 

What I came up with was this:

 

[attachmentid=18835][attachmentid=18836]

[attachmentid=18837][attachmentid=18838]

 

I had a lot of stability issues with A:M this time around, which was unusual for me. Luckily, I save often, so while it was frustrating to have to redo things... at least I didn't have to redo very much each time. I finally broke down and did a reinstall of version 12w (which took all of 30 seconds... so why did I put it off for so long???) and it seems to have settled things down again. Hopefully the problem has been solved.

 

Any comments or advice would help a lot. Thanks!

[R Reynolds]

It's coming along nicely.

 

Now that you've done the copy/flip/attach you may want to check for flipped and now incorrect bias signs (especially alphas) that invariably happens after this operation. The best way to find this problem is to closely inspect the wireframe in an orthogonal side view and look at matching splines on both sides of the body that don't have the same shape as intended since they don't have the correct bias sign.

 

My only suggestions for further bias tweaks is the subtle waves in the top of the rear quarter panel, just behind the oval passenger cutouts. There appear to be even smaller waves in the middle of the hood but this waviness might fall within the acceptable range for typical auto sheet metal of the time.

 

Less subtle is the shape of the trailing edge of the hood. It looks a bit puffy to me. You may want to individually isolate the splines on either side of the gap between the hood and the panel at the leading edge of the passenger cutout and check that they follow a smooth, consistent trajectory.

 

The fit and finish around your door gaps look good but I'll warn you to plan ahead for building the interior of the doors. If you decide to extend the exterior surface to build its sides and interior, your lovingly tweaked bias handles will go kerflooey as A:M's internal bias calculations work against you. You have two choices. Extend the existing splines and be resigned to redoing your bias tweaks (my usual choice since it makes for a more realistic model; either that or I'm a sucker for punishment ) or build the interior of the door as a separate model (easier but less accurate).

 

In some ways I consider your Batmobile more impressive than Stian's Bismarck. Sure it's big and has a lot of parts but there aren't a lot of convoluted surface profiles on a battleship. Stick to it!

[Zaryin]

Wow, the batmobile is really coming along. I think I might re-read this entire thread and learn a little more about mechanical modeling.

[T-Dogg]

My only suggestions for further bias tweaks is the subtle waves in the top of the rear quarter panel, just behind the oval passenger cutouts.

 

Rodger,

 

I had started reworking this area already because I noticed that somewhere along the way I had lost the proper shape of the passenger cutouts. There was a large straight area when it should have been curved. Probably something I screwed up when I was trying to lower my spline count.

 

Thanks for pointing out those other areas, as well. That area of the hood edge you mentioned does look particularly nasty. I hadn't noticed it before.

 

I have spent so much time trying to keep splines even. Sometimes it's easy enough to just go into the properties and set the scale percent to 0 for 1 or 2 of the axes, but other times I have to go into the manipulator window and manually adjust values. I also go into the manipulator window a lot and calculate the distance between 2 points when I am trying to keep splines an equal distance apart along their lengths.

 

I have learned one good trick about moving groups of points. If I know where at least one point in a group is supposed to go, I can select the group of points... deselect the point I know by clicking it while holding the control key... then re-select it while holding the shift key. Then I can enter the values I want for that particular point and the rest of the group will move with it accordingly. I used this technique to properly place the 2nd door after I had copied and flipped it.

 

I also developed another technique to help me keep angled surfaces smoother. Instead of trying to just explain it with words, I made some pictures to try to illustrate it more clearly.

 

[attachmentid=18892][attachmentid=18893][attachmentid=18894][attachmentid=18895]

 

Of course, I could always just draw a 2-point spline and line up the end points, but I find this technique is usually quicker than typing in the values to exactly align the endpoints.

 

You experienced modellers already know these things, I'm sure. I just thought I would post them here in case they might help some other newbie modellers such as myself.

 

 

The funny (or sad) thing is... no matter how precise I try to be as I am modelling, I always find things wrong when I go back and check later. I have a nasty habit of fixing one thing just to screw something else up. Hopefully, it's a habit I can break!

[Eric2575]

You're really doing great, and that's what it's all about, learn as you go. Battles are won in the trenches, not in a boardroom. I was in your exact position, thinking that tweaking one area messes up another area. This can seem overwhelming, but as you get past this hump and gain a little bit more experience, you will begin to anticipate certain idiosyncracies and learn how to avoid others. Everything will get better and easier.

 

When things get too much, just step away from it for a while and get a fresh start another day. I found that in doing that, I sometimes get an inspiration on how to get around a problem that has been eluding me. Now, as far as modeling goes...

 

 

Cheers

 

Eric

[T-Dogg]

I did some more tweaking to try to fix the areas Rodger mentioned... as well as some others such as rounding the nose a bit more. Here are the pictures:

 

[attachmentid=18912][attachmentid=18913][attachmentid=18914]

 

 

 

I thought it was looking pretty good, until I noticed this problem in the render.

 

[attachmentid=18915]

 

I went back and tried to fix it. I thought it was caused by my peaking the control points in that area to get the sharp corners I wanted, but when I smoothed the points, the creases didn't go away. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Eric2575]

T-Dogg:

 

can you post a shaded wireframe of that area? Go in a little bit closer so that I can see it better.

[T-Dogg]

T-Dogg:

 

can you post a shaded wireframe of that area? Go in a little bit closer so that I can see it better.

 

Sure thing, Eric! Is this better?

 

[attachmentid=19004]

 

I still think it has something to do with peaking those control points. Maybe I should try to smooth them again and mess around more with the settings. I'm really at a loss here, so any advice you can give me will help a lot. Thank you!

[Eric2575]

T-Dogg:

 

The four point patch that my yellow arrows are in seem to have cps that are not planar. These areas are always tough and need more than just peaking or smoothing. Try adjusting the gamma settings of the two cps indicated by my arrow. When I adjust cps this way, I usually turn off wireframe and have the model's specular value turned up so I can see the changes on the model surface.

 

Hope that helps

[R Reynolds]

You've been seduced by the desire to keep patch count low.

 

You might get away with increasing the magnitudes as Eric suggests but I would suggest you just bite the bullet and add more splines (see attachment) which will give you much more accurate control over your surfaces.

[T-Dogg]

You've been seduced by the desire to keep patch count low.

 

Rodger,

 

That's exactly what happened!!! There I was happily modelling away... Well, maybe not so happily, but I was fighting off the frustration and modelling anyway... when alluva sudden the topic of patch count comes up. So I, being overzealous (or maybe just looking for something else to do during a period where I was stuck), dive into my model and start deleting patches and using hooks on everything in site. I thought it still looked as good as before.

It was when I noticed that flattened area around the back of the passenger cutout that I began to see the error of my ways....

A small voice in my head began to get loder and louder saying "You must find a happy medium!" Unfortunately, John Edward was nowhere to be seen... Suddenly a louder, somewhat gravelly voice shouted out "No Dummy! We're talking about a balance between patch count and a good-looking model! I'll give you five of these across your lip if you don't fix that model before it starts looking as bad as Esther!" Then the voice muttered something about the big one and disappeared.

 

And that, my fellow Hash addicts, is why I turn to you guys for advice!

 

[OK, I admit it. I wrote all of this because I have no real progress to show right now. But I'm not giving up. Although for many things having a deep crease in the rear end is perfectly natural, the batmobile is not one of them! This will be fixed!]

[Eric2575]

Argh! I was hoping to see what you came up with. The fun thing about modeling is that there are so many different ways to solve a problem. Every challenge presents a new learning experience.

 

Go get em, T-Dogg!

[T-Dogg]

Ok, I think I got it fixed. The mistake was that I wrongfully modeled the louvres [?] on the trunk parallel in order to keep them all even. This is how it looked from the back view:

 

[attachmentid=19043]

 

In reality, since the middle of the trunk is pulled back at an angle and the entire trunk is sloping downward, the middle section should actually be higher than the sides in the back view, like so:

 

[attachmentid=19044]

 

Having raised that up, I then had to raise the area around that part of the trunk as well. I also detached a hook on both sides of the centerline and made a complete spline that connected in the middle. In the pictures below, this is the spline that is seen between the cerise trim and the trunk.

 

I also did even more tweaking of bias handles around the trunk and the hood to get rid of some more of those bumps.

 

This is what I finally ended up with:

 

[attachmentid=19045][attachmentid=19046]

[attachmentid=19047][attachmentid=19048]

 

Does anyone see any other mistakes? If not, I am going to move on to a different area.

[Eric2575]

Nice, keep going!

[oakchas]

T Dogg,

 

Looking very good! Glad to see you have had much help in my absence. Rodger's right, of course, about the lure of low patch counts.. that's my problem with the hood.. I need to bite the bullet and get back at it... it's gonna be a tough summer for me .. .many others get vacation now, and I have to work a lot of 12 hour days to cover for them...

 

Keep going! you are doing really well.

[case]

you are going to make it keep going its a start to the body keep hitting that model hard

[T-Dogg]

Just to feel like I was making some progress and not just constantly reworking the same parts, I added the exhaust pipes. Sure it was simple lathing with a bit of rotation and scaling on one end, but it sure felt good to see them on the body.

 

I didn't cut holes in the body for them. I just stuck them through the body mesh and put those rings around them to make it look good.

 

What do you think?

 

[attachmentid=19128][attachmentid=19129]

[Eric2575]

T-Dogg:

 

When you post these WIP pics, hit the Perspective button before you screencap, so we can see it better that way. Be sure to revert to orthagonal when you continue to model.

[T-Dogg]

T-Dogg:

 

When you post these WIP pics, hit the Perspective button before you screencap, so we can see it better that way. Be sure to revert to orthagonal when you continue to model.

 

I thought using button 7 was a perspective view. How do I change it?

[Jeetman]

One of the things I like about the "WIP" forum thread is you can check out a project, go on vacation and come back to see the progress .

 

T-Dogg and Oakchas,

 

Of all the "WIP" projects, to me, yours is the COOLEST!!!.

 

T-Dogg your progress is REALLY looking good. Excellent work my friend.

 

Oakchas, can't wait to see your progress. From what I've seen, your's is looking good too.

 

I have 2 questions:

 

Are you both going to share your end models? If so, could you attach the latest mdl file? It would be sooo cool to load the model and look at it from different angles in the model window.

 

Jeetman

[Eric2575]

T-Dogg:

 

the 7 button shows you the last non aligned view that you were in. Say you hit the front view button and then proceded to turn the model. This view is the non aligned view. If you go back to an aligned view, front, back, side, etc, and you want to go back to the last non aligned view, hit 7.

 

If you want to go out of the orthagonal view mode, hit the extended square - see pic below. This view gives you a perspective view of your model.

[T-Dogg]

Thanks Eric! I didn't have that particular toolbar visible. Upon further inspection, I see now that the perspective option is also available from the right-click window and has the hotkey of "\". I guess I had seen it in the right-click menu before but hadn't really paid any attention to it. Thanks for pointing it out to me!

 

I've had this program for around 5 months now, and sometimes I still feel like I don't know anything about it.

[Eric2575]

I'm so used to using the toolbar, I forgot the hotkey

[T-Dogg]

I looked it up in David Rogers' book!

 

Hey.... look y'all... it's my 100th post!!!!!!!!

 

Edit - Cool! I have just become a Master! If only I had the skills to back that up!

[Jeetman]

OK,

 

Either my questions were completely ignored (which I'm doubting is the case because everyone here is so cool), or were missed so I'll ask my questions again.

 

T-Dogg and Oakchas,

 

Are you guys planning on sharing the end models?

 

If so, could you post your current wip? As I said, I'd love to see it in the model window to rotate and see it from different angles.

 

If you do not plan to share the model, that's completely understandable. I'd just like to know.

 

Jeetman

[T-Dogg]

Sorry, Jeetman!

 

I definitely did not mean to ignore you.

 

One thing me and Chas agreed on at the beginning of this project was that the model would be freely given to the community when we finished it.

 

I didn't want to share it before that, though. I didn't want everyone to see my screw-ups. I was hoping there wouldn't be as many by the time the model is finished. I keep learning new things as I go along, so hopefully this will be the case.

 

I've seen several superhero threads on this forum, so I really hope people will download this car after we finish it and post some nice renders.

[Eric2575]

That's guaranteed. I'll be one for sure

[T-Dogg]

Since I've gone a week without posting any progress, I figured I'd go ahead and show what little (and I mean very little) progress I've made. Pretty much all I've done is remove some of the "puffiness" in this area that was really annoying me. (Perhaps that's a bit ironic, since I have been listening to "Puffy" AmiYumi as I've modeled.) Now it looks nice and flat.

 

[attachmentid=19548]

 

Now onward to bigger and better things! Perhaps the windshield....

[Eric2575]

Good to have a post from you

 

You're getting better as you go. That area looks very smooth. Looking forward to seeing more. Hope you don't burn out on this, Batman needs his ride

[T-Dogg]

Good to have a post from you

 

You're getting better as you go. That area looks very smooth. Looking forward to seeing more. Hope you don't burn out on this, Batman needs his ride

 

Burning out has definitely been a problem, Eric, but not the burnout you're thinking of. The room my PC is in isn't air-conditioned!!!

 

Before I bought A:M I had been trying to learn a different piece of software by staying after hours at my old job, and I ended up with a ton of unfinished models. However, I couldn't afford to buy that software to use at home. When I bought A:M, I tried to find a plugin or something that would let me bring my old models into A:M. Oakchas explained that I'd be better off to just forget the poly stuff and work on my spline modelling. He agreed to work with me on a project to help me learn. Thus, the batmobile project was born!

 

With all the encouragement I have gotten from Oakchas and all the great folks on the forum, there is no way I am gonna let this project end up in my graveyard of unfinished models! That folder is full enough already!

[Eric2575]

Here, here!!

[T-Dogg]

Sorry it's been so long since I added anything. Life has a way of pulling me away from this project (and I also got distracted trying to make a render for the latest image contest).

 

I havent really made any progress at all. I was attempting to model the windshield, but I ran into a problem. It seems that my rotoscopes don't match up properly.

 

[attachmentid=20169][attachmentid=20170]

 

I'm sure this is something that happens to modellers all the time, especially when working from drawings. Since I'm still a newbie modeller, I thought I'd aske for advice from you pros. What is the common practice for modelling in this situation? Does the modeller take artistic license and just do what feels right?

 

Thanks again for your time!

[R Reynolds]

Does the modeller take artistic license and just do what feels right?

Absolutely. Assuming you can't find better roto's, you haven't much choice. And what are the chances that your going to pay some penalty because your model isn't an absolutely perfect replica? There can't be that many Batmobile nit-pickers.

[ddustin]

Speaking of Chas....

 

Where has he been??

[gschumsky]

Does the modeller take artistic license and just do what feels right?

Absolutely. Assuming you can't find better roto's, you haven't much choice. And what are the chances that your going to pay some penalty because your model isn't an absolutely perfect replica? There can't be that many Batmobile nit-pickers.

And considering every Batmobile made from this body style was slightly different (the guy who made a lot of the replicas, as well as replica futuras, lived by me), I don't think it's a big deal if a few things are off.

 

I've been working on and off (mostly off lately) of a Honda Rune, using the publicity studio photos, which are pretty smack on as far as the side and top views. The issue I've come across, even though the images are scaled to be exact based on the wheelbase, is that when modeling form the side, then switching to the top, I find things are off a bit. This is most likely due to the lens used when shooting the pictures (i.e. from the top, the front wheel does not protrude out as it should). So in some cases, I'm using my best judgement to compensate.

 

And your Batmobile is looking pretty awesome too! YAre you going to go with the shiny black metal or the bat fur texture (which they used on showcars to hide stress cracks...)?

[T-Dogg]

Speaking of Chas....

 

Where has he been??

 

That's a good question! I know he was working a lot of long hours at his job. I hope he's OK and will be back here soon!

 

And your Batmobile is looking pretty awesome too! YAre you going to go with the shiny black metal or the bat fur texture (which they used on showcars to hide stress cracks...)?

 

I will probably just give it a glossy black finish. I think that will look pretty cool.

[Eric2575]

Glad to see you're picking up on this again. I doubt that there are any rotoscopes that line up perfectly on every seam. Well, at least not many. When I first ran into that challenge, I had twinges of guilt about using artistic license, but soon got over that as the model progressed. Just convince yourself that what you are modeling is the right way and that the rotoscopes are wrong

[T-Dogg]

In between working on my entry for the next Hash contest and the rest of life's adventures, I am still trying to find time to work on this project. I finished modelling the front windshield. I took artistic license with the rotoscopes, but once I tried to put it onto the car body I realized that my license had been revoked! So now I am in the process of making it fit properly. It's coming along nicely though, I think.

 

Here's a picture of how it's going so far... I even remembered to turn on perspective mode this time, too :

[attachmentid=20345]

 

It's just a matter of bringing the sides out some and lining them up right. Once I get the front finished, I am hoping I can just copy it and flip it for the back. I know the back windshield is longer, but it shouldn't be too hard to reshape it.

[Dhar]

Does the angle look too shallow or is it just me?

[Eric2575]

Should the windshield have a bit more of a curve as seen front to back? I'm not sure, just seem to recall the windshield looked like half a bubble.