Space Marine Run Cycle Test

[higginsdj]

OK,

 

I've rigged my Space Marine with TSM2 (yes there is some smartskinning issues and some geometry penetration). I'm trying to animate a run. This run is designed for an incline (ie running up a hill) rather than a flat run (even though I have rendered it flat) and in general I think it's OK but there is something that just doesn't feel right about it. It feels more like a fast walk than a run and I can't put my finger on the problem.

 

Comments, advice and critiques most welcome. (225kb mov)

 

Cheers

[Dagooos]

Whoah nice model

 

I think it looks like a fast walk because you don't have frames of him propelling himself into the air as he runs just kind of consistent motion like a walk he never really leaves the ground. A little more up and down hip movement may help also. If he is running up hill you should exaggerate his weight a little., giving him a slow in and slow out of the pose where he catches his weight on his back foot, so it looks like its harder for him to run. Hope something in there made sense.

[strohbehn]

Looks really nice.

 

Dagooos' observations are accurate. I also notice that his knees unnaturally hyperextend at two points. One is just before the footfall out in front. And the other is when his entire weight is directly over the leg that's on the ground. If he were running, he'd be mostly on his toes... especially if he were running up hill.

 

I'd keep this walk cycle as your "fast walk" or "determined walk" are rework a new action (based on this one) for your uphill walk.

[John Bigboote]

Looks to me like a typical 'first-pass' animation...a good base. Something to build upon. From here, spread the keyframes out to make the run cycle a little longer and then add the poses Dagoos mentioned...more of this and that...then sit back...anylise...and commence a third pass...fourth pass...etc. Its almost like sculpture...add what needs be added, take away what shouldn't be there...in your mind. Speaking of which...you should have a clear 'minds eye view' of your space marine run...

[Bendytoons]

This is nice animation, but I think this looks like a walk because biomechanically it is a walk. The basic mechanical difference between a walk and a run is that a run includes a period where neither foot is in contact with the ground. It's a little hard to tell from the animation, but either you have no airborne frame or just a single one that gets lost.

[KenH]

It's almost too fast for a run. On a (normal) character the upper body is used more to add to the momentum. And don't forget, both feet come off the ground at the same time (for a split second).

[starwarsguy]

GREAT MODEL AND ANIMATION! I can just imagine him running up a hill for victory!

[nyahkitty]

These fellows are correct. That marine needs to catch some air. Not an altitude that implies a cartoon, but enough so that it reads correctly from the camera's point of view. Also, the bit about just the front part of the foot being the only part that makes contact with the ground is true, especially when going up hill. Knowing that the foot of a space marine armor is basically one piece, he'd probably be leaving divits where his toes gouged the ground. But wait! It looks like you built the foot into two pieces. Good, that will help.

[higginsdj]

Thanks everyone.

 

I think the issue for me to determine is how much air time. This guy is wearing heavy armour after all so I don't want him 'floating' like a jogger and won't be covering the step distance of a sprinter.

 

Specifically I think I am lacking just a little air time and definitely not showing enough weigh on the front leg.

 

Cheers

[amarillospider]

Hey David,

It's a little hard to judge because he's not on an incline. I would suggest throwing a simple tilted plane under him just to give us a better idea. Anyway, I agree that he needs a moment of suspension. Armor wise, he's a strong guy right, so he has the strength to push that armor around, but where the weight will come in is in how high the moment of suspension is (but not necessarily how long if he's moving fast he can still cover some ground) and how much he has to fight it when gravity pulls it back down.

Other run points. The speed of the run can often be determined by how close to underneath the body the contact foot is, how far tilted forward the upper body is, and how high the back foot comes. (see the link to preston blair's quick run guide, in the Animation Boot Camp run excercise). Your guys foot is landing pretty far forward, in basically the same place it would in a walk. And because he's so bulky the forward tilt in the upper torso isn't coming across very strongly, I would suggest exagerating it more. Your back foot isn't coming very high. If you do tilt the body more don't forget that there will be more follow through on everything since it doesn't have as much column-ular support.

I think you need to animate on a tilted plane so that you can tell how much forward he needs to lean to maintain balance, how soon the higher ground will meet his foot, and so you can make him run on his toes like Mark said.

Great character, it's looking good so far.

 

Gotta run, catching a plane to visit my Grandmother in Spain for 2 weeks. See ya all next month

 

-Alonso

[JoshB]

First let me apologize is this post isn't my best work to date--been a real long day. But, I wanted to comment on a few things--unfortunately due to my tired state I didn't read all the previous posts so I'm sorry if I repeat what someone else has said. Now having completely dismissed this post before even starting let me continue:

 

It looks like a fast walk--because it is. Definitely not enough time spent in the air. When you run you are actually jumping. However, this is more effect with this model than you might think...look at all that stuff he's carrying and try to think about in terms of weight. I mean a gun--which looks to be a few pounds. Full body armor probably weighs about 60-80 pounds. And, he's got a pack on his back. Now I know some burley individuals but they're not leaving the ground with that stuff on--unless they are weightless--at which point I would study moonwalk footage. The problem with trying to run in a weightless environment is that you don't know as much about the timing--here it's pretty simple you go up and you come down. Weightless it gets tricky--but I digress.

 

What I would do is actually leave the timing and overall motion the same--however, I would add some secondary motion to demonstrate the weight. Right now he's just point one foot in front of the other. But what feels "wrong" to me is the fact that he isn't bouncing. Final Fantasy had the same problem. But, the reason was they were using motion capture but the guys weren't wearing all the gear--at least if memory serves. Therefore, they had "regular man" running--then they pasted the motion over a model that was weighed down by about 80 pounds.

 

When his front foot comes down his back should shift forward, his pelvis down, and his arms should drop a little from the gun. Videotape yourself with your standard issue camping equipment and a broom in your hand. Also, humans have a habit of using their arms to build and maintain moment, you see it in army movies all the time. Guys running with their gun cross chest swinging it up and down.

 

I hope that didn't come out too babble-like.

 

J

[higginsdj]

OK, heres a new version (you'll need to loop it).

 

I'm only interested in the lower body and general movement of the upper body at present. I think I have the run cycle nailed pretty well BUT there is always room for improvement

 

(28kb mov file)

 

Cheers

[jamagica]

if he's running up a hill his toes need to bend a bit

[KenH]

Much better. I'd say slow it down abit though.

[higginsdj]

if he's running up a hill his toes need to bend a bit

I tried the bent toes and it didn't look right (well didn't feel right). He's carying a lot of weight and just running on his toes made him look 'dainty'.

 

Cheers

[higginsdj]

Much better. I'd say slow it down abit though.

The pacing is very interesting. I've been using 20 frames as my standard but in previous attemtps that was too slow and moved to 18 then 15 but nothing looked quite right.

 

I then timed Blur Studios 'Dawn of War' run cycles and they appeared to be 20-22 frames. This one was 20 so I might see if I can stretch it to 22 and see how that looks. I had to use motion blur as the feet appeared 'doubled' at their rearmost position.

 

Cheers

[gsellis]

I posted, but having ISP DNS issues...

 

I think I see the issue. This would be powered armor, right? There is no powered bounce. It should take off like running on the moon, but with normal gravity down. It would be Boom - Boom - Boom, not dink-dink-dink. There would also be a hesitation to wait for the landing. That will also give him/her the "Space Marine" look instead of some old ground hog in armor.

[higginsdj]

No. Although WH40K refers to it as 'Power Armour' it is not actually 'powered' - not in the sense you refer to. Terminators are trully 'powered' and you can see the powered joints. This armour is worn as a suit of armour with perhaps some 'powered' shielding - but all the joints are definitely human powered.

 

I want to reflect the fact that the marine is carrying weight as opposed to struggling with it.

 

Cheers

[jamagica]

you have to make him bend forward if you bend the toes

 

EDIT: you also have to bend the knees throughout the cycle so that it doesn't look like a retarted walk

[higginsdj]

you have to make him bend forward if you bend the toes

 

EDIT: you also have to bend the knees throughout the cycle so that it doesn't look like a retarted walk

So you think the run action is still not right or are you making comment regarding the relationship between bent knees and toes? The Marines knees are bent except in 2 frames - the full extent forward and the pushoff.

 

I have a new (longer) animation with a slightly slower cycle (22 frame) with some upper body action and action object (the Boltgun). (290kb Mov)

 

What I am looking at doing is building several version of the action (including 'stumbles' - small and largish) that I can apply to a squad of Marines running up a hill (or just running in general). I can make the Marines Action of firing their weapons on the run using the existing cycles and some overloaded chor action (or a separate action that I can plonk in the chor to overload the run cycle)

 

Cheers

[Tunames]

David if you wanna add more weight to the action have the landing after the heel strike a little faster and the push-off of the next foot a little slower right now they appear to be the same speed. Remember a weight droping is easy(gravity). Picking it back up isn't, The heavier the weight the slower it comes back up.

[ChrisThom]

I'm noticing that his toes (especially on his right foot) are actually going into the hill.

 

Beyond that I think it looks pretty good.

[Zaryin]

Hey, that looks great to me.

[Mr. Jaqe]

I like it, I like it a lot, have to agree with Tunames, tho, it need some more weight on the landing. Space Marines have a lot of gear, even tho they've had a lot of training, their armour weights a... very big lot. He needs to be "heavier".

[KenH]

It's clear to me now! Weight is just an illusion that's brought about by slowing down anything going up and speeding up anything coming down. It's like they're inversely proportional.