Ilidrake Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 This is the next lesson Robcat is teaching. Here is my first rough draft. This is just a first blocking pass. Refing to come. Feedback welcome. For learning purposes this was animated on 3's and is only 18 frames in length. The arms are hidden so I can concentrate on body and weight mechanics. jump.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 24, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted December 24, 2012 Take a look at this white dot tracking the hips. (The hips are not exactly the center gravity like the center of a bouncing ball is, but they are typically not far from it and easy to follow) Compare their path to the dots tracking my hips in the video of the one-legged hop (linked to earlier), especially regarding the start, where I begin from a standstill, and the end where I finish at a standstill, much like what you are trying to do here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 Here's my next go at it. jump.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 I'm thinking that the head needs to delay coming up with the shoulders at the end. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 28, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted December 28, 2012 Lloyd, Do you have a video camera of some sort? Even a phone camera will do. Shoot yourself doing this broad jump. One big jump, feet together, begin and end standing. Make it the biggest, farthest jump you can do. Make sure you get a take where you stick the landing, no extra hops or stumbles. Convert that bit into a quicktime and post that, And lets compare that to what you have animated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 28, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted December 28, 2012 And do the jump with your arms folded in front of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 ...backwards, with a blindfold and ear plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Okay I did a video of myself jumping, with arms folded in front. No I am not posting it here!!! Anyway, I used it for reference(not rotoscope) and here is what I have been working on all day. This is actually about the 12th take and the one that came out the best. Edited: I extended the ease into and out of the jump. I didn't feel the first one showed enough weight. jump.mov jump.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 30, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted December 30, 2012 Oh, go ahead and post it. And could you render the jump from a side view and post that too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I am curious: Was the motion of both your feet/legs in your reference video perfectly symmetric, as it shows in your animation? I can't imagine me being so perfectly symmetric when jumping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 30, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted December 30, 2012 I am curious: Was the motion of both your feet/legs in your reference video perfectly symmetric, as it shows in your animation? I can't imagine me being so perfectly symmetric when jumping. We're stripping this motion down to the barest mechanical essentials, so in this case symmetrical is fine. At animation school we did this exercise with a one-legged ball which left any notion of offsetting or trying to be non-symmetrical completely out of the equation. I did some reference video myself this morning and indeed there is an enormous temptation to not keep the feet together, but we are working on a basic mechanical principal of heaving weight into the air and one leg, or two stuck together is all we need to study this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Yes I did keep both my feet together. Very tempting not to. Here's the updated vid from the side. side_jump.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 30, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted December 30, 2012 Here's my reference jump , now you have to show yours (I'm presuming you had clothes on) RCHBroadJumpESingleHopAH4k.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 30, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted December 30, 2012 Fun fact: the standing long jump used to be an Olympic Event and the current world record is 3.71 m, about 12 feet 2 inches. More than twice what I am getting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_long_jump Here's a professional demonstration. Note the expert advice: "jump as far forward as possible." http://youtu.be/6P8qmLl4rZQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Okay here is my reference. For the record I jumped 7 feet and so is my character. Jump.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted December 30, 2012 Admin Share Posted December 30, 2012 RE: Lloyd's reference video It might just be me but... I find that jump to look really cool in reverse. Pretty impressive jump too (especially without the use of your arms). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtaz Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I find that jump to look really cool in reverse. I would write exactly about this !!!! It works normally. ...and a nice background to see through the window while animating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Okay here is my reference. For the record I jumped 7 feet and so is my character. Looks like a hell of a jump . See you *Fuchur* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 Okay here's my next go at it. I didn't bother to hide the arms, hope that's cool. Any who...it's coming in at 54 frames...not quite 2 seconds. I smoothed out the jump and lowered it. I also added a small amount of follow through near the end and made his motion standing more natural...I think ...... Let me know what you think. Edited: Here's a second pass with slight variation near the end on how he stands. I left bones showing so you can track curves. side_jump.mov side_jump_2nd.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 Okay so I am still at it. This whole jump thing is really more complex than you would think. I have to say thank you to Robcat for all the feed back and help that you have been giving me. I would have strangled me a long time ago. In any case as long as you strive to teach me I will strive to learn it and improve. So here are my latest attempts. I rounded out the take off so that it isn't as pointy. I also locked the feet down and rolled the ankle bone as you suggested. Much better look I quickened his descent back to the ground. Though if you watch it you will notice there is only one frame to slap the feet back down on the earth. And I changed up his stance at the end. I considered the over all arc of the jump. I see what you mean that it isn't a smooth arc but short of extending the distance he travels I am stumped on how to fix it. There are two versions. The 3rd is simply me working on the arcs. The 4th is with the shorter hang time. side_jump_3rd.mov side_jump_4th.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtaz Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Hi Lloyd... make sure that between frame 12 and 33, the curve of Y and Z axis ( hips bone ) maintain this aspect. as you can see the Y axis need only 3 cp on it and the Z axis is a straight line. example in this post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 Just loaded it up into after effects and traced out the arc of the jump. At the half way point he simply drops to the ground. Back to the drawing board... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 2, 2013 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 2, 2013 -The impression of motion I get from both of those (and had a bit on your previous take) is that he jumps up, flys forward, then drops down. It's not quite as rectangular as that description, but it's not moving like a jump. I think you've gone from an arc that is too triangular to an arc that is too flat across the top. -He's still overshooting his landing. -He's not slowing down before he lands, that's better than it was, but he's now suddenly slowed the moment he contacts the ground.. Remember our ref video... the slowdown should come you approach the squash position at the bottom, there shouldn't be sudden drastic change of motion at the moment of contact. the body needs to sail thru that moment. Watch the crit again, I explicitly point that out, notice that the dots tacking the hips don't suddenly get closer together the moment the feet touch the ground. It's impossible for that much mass to suddenly change velocity. Spacing like this doesn't happen: *---*---*---*---******** motion changes velocity gradually (unless there's a wall involved) *---*----*-----*----*---*--*-** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Yep I got that about the motion increasing as gravity really kicks in towards the landing. The spacing on this run is 6 frames on take off and 3 between the apex and landing. The arc of the curve is very much a nice curve. I mean I could change the spacing to 1 frame but then it's so fast you can't even see it. Other than these changes I am at a lost for getting this right. All in all I can say I have learned a lot from this jump and will continue to tweak it and experiment. But beyond rotoscoping a jump I don't know how much better I could get it. I guess for my poor animating skill set this is about as good as it will get. Like my modeling it is something I simply did again, again, and again before they started getting better. And this is the 8th time I have animated this. Each time I have started from scratch and worked through the entire process. side_jump_8th.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 3, 2013 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 3, 2013 The timing finally looks plausible on that one. That's better! If you don't mind sending me the PRJ with the character in it I can show you where to go with that. You could even delete most of the mesh, just leave the legs and torso. You could email it to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 What's your email? I may have it already but it's late and my brain quit working hours ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 3, 2013 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 3, 2013 What's your email? I may have it already but it's late and my brain quit working hours ago... theguy (at) brilliantisland (dot) com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 3, 2013 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 3, 2013 i should have given you an actual lecture before I set you out on this test. Sorry! Now that I see the PRJ i see some fundamental workflow problems that can be solved. Stay tuned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Standing by Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 4, 2013 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 4, 2013 First... I think some things need to be fixed in the rig -the foot IK control bones need to be at the bottom of the foot with the origin right at the heel rather than below the feet - the body bone is in the right place and is as TSM typically places it but that is upside down compared to normal rigging conventions. The biggest drawback is that when you are editing your curve for the vertical on that bone, down is up and up is down which is confusing. The easiest way to fix this is to go back to the version of your model you saved just before you ran Rigger (the last of the three plugins), move the bones to the correct place, then run Rigger and resave, but not over your previous version. If you made a bunch of changes to your model after you rigged it, then it's a bit more involved, but first tell me if the first plan is feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Yes I can rig it again but it will take a bit of time. I wasn't aware that the body bone is upside down in tsm. It could be error on my part so I'll see what I can do. What else do you see with the project that is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 4, 2013 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 4, 2013 Yes I can rig it again but it will take a bit of time. I wasn't aware that the body bone is upside down in tsm. It could be error on my part so I'll see what I can do. What else do you see with the project that is wrong. I'm guessing you don't have a pre-Rigger version saved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 4, 2013 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 4, 2013 Yes I can rig it again but it will take a bit of time. I wasn't aware that the body bone is upside down in tsm. It could be error on my part so I'll see what I can do. What else do you see with the project that is wrong. I'm guessing you don't have a pre-Rigger version saved? that's not a rhetorical question. i need to know whether you do or don't before we make the next move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 4, 2013 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 4, 2013 The easiest way to fix this is to go back to the version of your model you saved just before you ran Rigger (the last of the three plugins), move the bones to the correct place, then run Rigger and resave, but not over your previous version. This should take 5 minutes at most. If it is taking more than 5 minutes something is wrong. Stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 No I have one pre-rigged. I always keep a back up of all my models. I'm just wondering how well we need him rigged. Just a quick rigging won't take long but TSM2 isn't 100% as I am sure you are aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 4, 2013 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 4, 2013 No I have one pre-rigged. I always keep a back up of all my models. I'm just wondering how well we need him rigged. Just a quick rigging won't take long but TSM2 isn't 100% as I am sure you are aware. Whats not 100%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 I mean the fingers. The mesh around the shoulders won't be right. I did a lot of weighting and what not to get him where he is right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 4, 2013 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 4, 2013 I mean the fingers. The mesh around the shoulders won't be right. I did a lot of weighting and what not to get him where he is right now. So, I need to think of a plan B. Don't do anything yet. Normally none of that should be done with bones that are added by Rigger. Smartskin and weighting should always be done on just the bones made by Builder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 4, 2013 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 4, 2013 I'm looking at this... what are the relationships for that bend the tip of the fingers backwards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 I have no idea. By rotating the handle of the bone you can bend the fingers in either direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 4, 2013 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 4, 2013 I have no idea. By rotating the handle of the bone you can bend the fingers in either direction. My mistake, that's created by TSM. I hadn't noticed that before. That's very odd. But that's good news... I was afraid it was some custom thing you had done on hidden TSM bones. So... you haven't added any fanbones or smartskin to this, everything you've added is for the face rig in the head, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Yep. I didn't add anything else or smartskin anything. Everything is default. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 4, 2013 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 4, 2013 Yep. I didn't add anything else or smartskin anything. Everything is default. OK, given that... I'm not sure I see anything that you've added that requires the post-Rigger bones. Isn't everything weighted to the bones that were already there before Rigger? (that's the way it's supposed to be done) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilidrake Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 My basic rigging goes like this. Bring up the rigger. This creates half, the right side, of the skeleton. This includes the back bone, neck, and head bones. I set these in place. The I call up the flipper plugin and this mirrors the skeletal structure for me. Then I simply bring up the right-click menu and auto assign bones. Then I go in a tweak the mesh attachment to bones. Then I actually call up the rigger to rig the thing. Once the mesh is rigged I go in and start adjusting the weighting. Once the body is working pretty good I start adding bones for the eyes and setting up relationships. That's about it. I don't really like using smartskin or fan bones that much. The basic skeletal structure wrks for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 5, 2013 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 5, 2013 Hey Lloyd, If you are wanting something to do right now.... that squetchy bouncing ball that bounces off a wall would be good to try. (hint: you can turn the ball any direction you need) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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