Hmmm Second test model

[mykyl]

Well all I can say is I am really growing to hate modelling in A:M. lol

 

Its just too long winded and so easy to botch up. In my opinion. Maybe It will get easier and more intuative. PLEEEAAASE.

 

Still trying to find my way of modelling within it. This started out as a comic little girl.?!?! No idea at what point it went wrong

 

I ended up trying to stitch the eyes and nose area which was difficult and perhaps impossible as you can see. The only reason it looks as smooth is because I used the porcelain material.

 

 

I have ordered the 2002 A:M book to see if it clarifies anything.

 

Cheers

 

Mike R

[JavierP]

Many of your posts seem to have the same tone. You seem to be whining, or complaining about something. It is true that modelling in AM is not easy, I had to learn to do it as well. However, your image demonstrates critical flaws in your understanding of form in general. This has nothing to do with AM at all. I would suggest studying sculpture of some kind ( even if it is very basic, and of simple objects). If you provide some more information in the form of wireframes, I would be able to offer suggestions for improving your surfacing problems.

I do not mean to sound harsh, but it would be easier to help you if your attitude was different. If you approached the list with a little more patience and a willingness to learn and adapt your approach, perhaps you would get the results you are after. I hopes this helps you.

 

Javier

[robcat2075]

As one bad attitude person to another ... these first attempts don't seem all that awful. Hey, what do people expect from first attempts? I'd say there's more going right than wrong from what i've seen in your first two pics.

 

My advice is not to stress out trying to perfect each new project. They just ain't gonna be perfect the first time out.

 

Try a lot of different small stuff. try a hand, try a nose, try a foot, try a duck, try whatever....

 

do each one until you reach the wall then table it and try the next one. eventually you'll come full circle back to topics you've tried before, but you'll you'll look at it fresh and say "ah, now i know what I shoulda done with that" If you're clever, that is.

 

The A:M 2002 book is good though.

[johnl3d]

also study the models on the cd..etc they might give you ideas as to how to each part of a face is shaped..as suggested also start with a vase ..etc..everyone wants to make a face or dragon right away..I have fun with am and my modeling skills are minimal but I understand a lot about how the rest of AM works so have a little fun and relax try the tuts available then make your face/head/dragon

 

I attached a very early model I did following the direction in Aniamation Master second edition by Jeff Paries. It was easy because you could just follow the tut.

 

johnl3d

[mykyl]

Many of your posts seem to have the same tone. You seem to be whining, or complaining about something.

And... I did not think that expressing an opinion was disallowed on these forums? If you are so bothered please refrain from reading my posts and passing on unhelpfull information that in no way increases my understanding of A:M. And perhaps your pc does not show the smilies either or you would see the spirit in what I am saying.

It is true that modelling in AM is not easy, I had to learn to do it as well. However, your image demonstrates critical flaws in your understanding of form in general. This has nothing to do with AM at all. I would suggest studying sculpture of some kind ( even if it is very basic, and of simple objects). If you provide some more information in the form of wireframes, I would be able to offer suggestions for improving your surfacing problems.

 

And this comment demonstrates a basic misunderstanding of what I was saying regarding A:M.

This has everything to do with A:M and ALSO my lack of understanding of the way it works. i.e. stitiching a new part to the main model. I have been told to hold the shift key down when joining to preserve the curve. This does not always work as the above image shows (The crease around the forehead). Also if you came from a modelling application that is (In my opinion (Notice these words)) many times more intuative as it is much more like sculpting in clay you would see where my frustration lies. The rest of A:M is perfect but unusable for now until I get a handle on the modelling side. (Before you say it the answer is no. This modeller is of no use within A:M as it is polygon based and my tests so far with importing have not been satisfactory. A:M is a brilliant animator and that is why I will persevere with learning the modelling tools)

I do not mean to sound harsh, but it would be easier to help you if your attitude was different. If you approached the list with a little more patience and a willingness to learn and adapt your approach, perhaps you would get the results you are after. I hopes this helps you.

 

Willingness to learn... I begin to doubt if you have read many of my posts or you would realise the error in this statement. I have spent around 4 hours per day for the last 2 and a half weeks just gathering information together regarding A:M. You do the math. I have had A:M since wednesday evening and can now finally try out some of what I have learned (Some of which I realise is not relevant as it is for older versions etc. This is an added frustration as learning A:M from tutorials is not as straight forward as it could be because of this.

 

Perhaps you didn't get to the bottom of my post where I stated that I have ordered the A:M 2002 book to increase my understanding of A:M.

 

Patience... I concur with that statement. I have never been known to have patience for anything. That is why I am known as the person to just get things done... No mucking around.

 

Anyway. I am not interested in personal attacks or slanging matches with anyone and I will continue to make my personal thoughts known regarding A:M. If you don't like them thats your opinion and you are entitled to them as well.

 

To the other posters... Thanks for your comments.

 

Cheers

 

Mike R

[Rodney]

MYKYL,

 

I was just thinking, as I do that occasionally...

Have you tried to complete any of the tutorials that came with A:M?

 

I really should go back and do a couple myself.

They teach you some important things that are entirely too easy to overlook if you just dive right in.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[robvmonte]

one thing dont get mad at other peoples post! They are just trying to help. The model will look kool just take out the big square looking thing where the forehead and eyes are at. IF you do that and add some cirlce where the eyes are you will have a good model. keep it up. oh and please dont get mad, we are just trying to help!

[mykyl]

I know I shouldn't get mad but the kind of rubbish where folks don't read entire posts or see the smilies just does my head in.

 

Not many people understand my sense of humour <_ and perhaps thats something i should watch.>

 

Its not so much the modelling side of things other than the pre modelling. (I guess I can handle the modelling after a bit)

 

From what I can gather so far you really NEED to plan ahead before starting the model to get an idea of how many points to put in a ring that you will extrude etc. I don't see any information regarding this side of things.

 

What I have found is that I tend to not put enough cp's in so when I get to the details I don't have enough points to add them. Thats my problem not A:M's.

 

With any artwork etc I tend to like to experiment and see what I like. So far (Notice I say SO FAR. e.g not cast in stone ) I find its not so easy to just experiment as you may get a shape you like but without enough cp's to add detail.

 

Is there an easy way to add a new rings of cp's all around a model without having to add them all yourself? In other words click where you want the first two points and it will continue the points all around the model.

 

I await that book to arrive and we will see then.

 

Cheers

 

Mike R

[pleavens]

Show us the splines, please.

[mykyl]

Ok here is what I have so far and what I started with.

 

As you can see the model on the right did not have enough control points but with some thinking I managed to add some extra ones for the model on the left which needs tons of work.

 

 

Cheers

 

Mike R

[Pengy]

Interesting to see that we all basically start out with the same frustrations. I don't know why it is as humans we always want to run before we can walk or play rock n roll before we pick up the guitar. But back to the point, I don't know if your background is in polygons or not but it appears to me that you are trying to model from a sculpting point of view. I relate to A:M more like sketching. 1 thing I took from David Rogers book, and I might be wrong, is when I spline a head I start with say the eyes then nose and mouth the attach them all and go from there. That's just my 2cents. We all get frustrated, many times I've wanted to pitch the computer but its just too heavy Also I think the advice of doing the tutorials in the book are an excellent one and will hopefully limit your aggrevation. Good luck

[JavierP]

Calm down. No need for the red type. I am simply tring to point out that you need to be more specific about your problems to get some help. I am not trying to attack you personally. Nor am I tring to censor your opinions. This is just a message board for some 3D software, no need to take stuff so personally .

 

Now, since you posted wireframe, some real advice can be offered. I can see the reason why you are having problems with creasing in your model. Your problems stem from the way you are connecting spines. AM needs the surfaces to be composed of regularly spaced and sized patches for a smooth surface. If you try to make the mesh as 'grid-like' as possible you will get better results. 'Grid-like' means: to have only two splines running through each control point.

 

You are right, that AM's modeller is not the most intuitive, and it does require some pre-planning to do create good models. Here is a solution for your particular model. It contains a three point patch and a five point patch. These are patch types used for transitions from 'grid' to 'grid'. My solution solves the suface artifact problems, but if you wanted to animate the model you would need to add a little more detail (for eyes, etc.) I honestly hope this helps you.

 

Javier

[mykyl]

JavierP,

 

Actually I chose the red type because I couldn't separate the quotes areas and I wanted to post in answer to each bit. Didn't mean anything by the colour. Sorry.

 

Anyway one other thing about me is I never hold a grudge so no hard feelings.

 

Thanks for the image. It does help in more ways than a model that is not specific to my needs.

 

I do tend to want to run before I can walk.

 

Currently I am not trying for any actual model as such other than making shapes and seeing how to build those shapes... With some frustrations. lol. I will get there just not as quickly as I would have liked.

 

Cheers

 

Mike R

[Rodney]

MYKYL,

 

I'm sure you've seen some of the splines layouts that people such as Jim Talbot have put together but it may have been while you were in 'research' mode.

 

I would seek out such information as the simplicity yet detail is unparrallel.

If you are going to run before you walk... at least do it like Mr. Talbotski!

 

I wouldn't be surprised if something like the following inspired you to purchase A:M in the first place:

 

Jim Talbot's splinage on his last WIP

[Scottj3d]

There are some very good face tutorials on the AM resource matrix site. I spent months trying to learn to model and they were most useful. Practice simple models to see how splines behave and soon it will hit you and one thing will lead to another. The lathe tool will help you in the eyesocket area(there is a Tut on the arm site under heads and faces that gives an excellent example of lathing the eye sockets which inspired my own modeling abilities). I still have much to learn about animation but once you get the basics of modeling and the approach to "making parts" it will get easier. I have not used any other modeling software and was getting frustrated and getting nowhere but with practice at making simpler "parts" and learning how to attach or extrude them I began to change my approach to building a head and it made all the difference (and still is ). I will find the tut and refer the creators name as I do not know how to post a link but it will help you. Keep laying down splines and practice breaking cp's and reattaching them to correct bias probs and using dangling cp's where there are sharp

cornersor wher the attachment of a new cp creates a bias prob and the lathe and extrusion tools and you will get it. I am by no means an expert but if a new guy like me can get good results once it clicks you will too.

[Scottj3d]

http://www.flsuncoast.com/animationmaster/...ls/headtut1.htm Here is the page with the tutorial. If the link doesn't get you there go to AM resource Matrix/heads and faces and look for #260 by Cindy Groves on the second page of the tutorial she covers lathing the eye sockets. My process is modified from that but this is where I found out how to use the lathe tool for something I never would have figured out how to do if I had not seen how it was done. All the tuts on that site are of great use but this one covers some good ground and may give you "ideas". Good luck!

[mykyl]

Cheers for that. I never saw that one before. Having a look now.

 

Cheers

 

Mike R

[mediaho]

Go here - http://www.colins-loft.net/tutorials.html

[zacktaich]

http://www.flsuncoast.com/animationmaster/...ls/headtut1.htm Here is the page with the tutorial. If the link doesn't get you there go to AM resource Matrix/heads and faces and look for #260 by Cindy Groves on the second page of the tutorial she covers lathing the eye sockets. My process is modified from that but this is where I found out how to use the lathe tool for something I never would have figured out how to do if I had not seen how it was done. All the tuts on that site are of great use but this one covers some good ground and may give you "ideas". Good luck!

As much as this tut is ideal for seeing that modeling in A:M is not impossible, I do not believe this is the best way to model later on (scratch that, it's one of the worst ways to make a really detailed, animatable model) I highly suggest the Colin tutorials, they show a way of modeling that is muchbetter for making a detailed animatable model.

 

No offense to the creator of the tutorial! I think it's great at first, but this is not the way to go later on.

 

Zackt.

[Srmjr]

Mykyl :lol: !!

 

It's been fun to watch you go through this process! I admire your tenacity! Keep working hard, but be patient. It would almost be insulting to those who have worked long and hard to acquire the knowledge and ability they have if you were to just start cranking out professional grade models in hash simply by opening the box.

 

enjoy the learning curve. Study other peoples splining. Other GOOD splining that is.

Look at the Tarzan model on the CD. I don't know what others think, and I don't know who model it, but studying that head has really help me plan the spline lay out for the head I'm working on now.

 

Sterling