That don't make no sense!

[Animus]

Trying 11 second club this month. I think the dialog fits my practice characters.

This is camera blocking, character blocking and rough lipsync.

Does it make any sense?

11sec_jan.mov

 

Michel

[NancyGormezano]

Does it make any sense?

 

uh yep ...it sure do...good start - I like the situation and camera changes

[robcat2075]

That's good casting. I think the hats help a lot.

 

My suggestion would be to not put the BOTH in chairs.

[TheSpleen]

great start

[Animus]

Thank you!

I want both to sit down, but I'll find something else than a chair to sit, for one of them,

it will make some variation. Don't know yet if I put some anything else in the background.

 

Michel

[mtpeak2]

Great start Michel.

[ludo_si]

good work

 

Gratien

[Animus]

Thank you Gratien and Mark, the rig works great so far.

It's the animator here having a tough time going from pose to pose

to more flowing animation. The line between mechanical dead stop and floaty behavior

is thin. Audio hypnosis is a killer.

A second pass.

No_sense.mov

 

Michel

[robcat2075]

Back when we were doing TWO i did a tut on holds. But i have no idea where it is now.

 

Your characters are moving from pose to pose then freezing. For some reason that kills 3D. The Flintstones can get away with it, but 3D characters don't survive it. It's very difficult to bring a 3D character to a full stop and not have it look bad.

 

 

Moving holds are about doing most of your motion in the planned time, but saving the last 2 or 3% to spread out over the "hold". This is what the curve editing looks like:

 

 

You don't need to do this on every bone, just the few that make up most of the pose change. Like the spine.

 

It is possible to do this wrong an get a worse result. It's something you have to develop an eye for.

 

 

For a motion like an arm waving in the air you might do differently. You might overshoot the pose, then creep back slightly.

 

 

 

The other essential item missing is anticipations. There are some but there are many places where one would help alot.

 

One example

 

 

"who was fixin...:

 

right now his head just moves down after "fixin"

 

tilt the head up a bit (the anticipation) on "was" then slam it down for "FIX-in" (the major accent of that phrase.)

 

 

There are other ways to do that anticipation, but that is one.

[Animus]

Thank you very much Robert! Your explanation is clear. That will be a very useful technique to me.

 

Michel

[John Bigboote]

Coming-along nicely... good advice- the 'moving hold'... I also like Robcats advice about making one of them standing up.

[Animus]

Coming-along nicely... good advice- the 'moving hold'... I also like Robcats advice about making one of them standing up.

 

Thanks John! I'm smoothing things out with Robert's curve technique and I think it's improving.

Simple and efficient. I'll keep both sitting down, because I want to stick to the camera I have now.

It would be a totally different clip, I'd say. The way I understood Robert's point was to have one of them

sitting on something else than a chair.

I've seen it, heard it, 600 times already.''That don't make no sense'' Hypnosisssss.

 

Michel

[Animus]

I think this is getting less choppy, and I tried to add more anticipation.

But I can't be a good audience anymore after so many replays.

Feel free to say what doesn't work,...and what does too .

Unfortunately, I get ¨access denied¨ when I try to upload a QT

with the compression recommended by 11sec club.

11sec_janE.mov

 

Michel

[robcat2075]

I'm not sure I see the moving holds yet...

[robcat2075]

ok, maybe I've detected a few. There are still a lot of rigid stops though.

 

 

When the guy on the right gestures with his arm on "you stole form my kin" that would be a great place for overlap on the whole arm motion. I'd also not make both gestures not the same size. First large, second small or first small, second large... it could go either way.

 

There's room for overlaps on just about every body motion, really. If you have "The Animator's Survival Kit" he start into that on pg. 222

[TheSpleen]

I'm not sure I see the moving holds yet...

Yes...especially in the last few movements.

[Jeetman]

It's looking real good. The thing that stood out to me was the hand pound on the knee. It needs an "ease in" to the up pose and a little ease out to the return pose. It looks too mechanical right now. You might want to consider adding a little bend at the wrist with a little follow through as the hand hits the knee. It would add flexibility and look better. Also adding a slight ark (as you probably know) to the motion will really loosen it up too.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

George

[Animus]

OK, Thank you! Your crits are welcome.

I like this exercise.

 

Michel

[robcat2075]

I'd also not make both gestures not the same size.

 

whoops.

[Rodney]

You've got a great thing going here.

I'll offer this as an option or alternative. (Not necessarily something you should pursue here)

 

There is a great opportunity to exploit the rhythm and beat that is echoed in the dialogue.

The idea is to withhold the payoff until the very end.

Let me explain...

 

Guy 1 (on screen left) takes a big swig of his drink and in a way that is the end of the thing.

The idea is to delay the action to the greatest extent possible in order to milk the payoff for everything its worth.

 

So instead of drinking he first begins to lift the bottle for a drink.

He then voluntarily brings the bottle back down as Guy 2 is talking because he is actually thinking about what Guy 2 is saying.

 

The second time he lifts it, the bottle almost makes it to his lips...

but he drops his hand again because this time he's got something important to say. "I borrowed it 'til I did know'.

 

As he goes to finally get his drink, Guy 2 grabs the bottle from him and takes *his* drink.

(stealing the payoff from Guy 1) and finishing the scene.

 

dot dot dah.

 

...the pattern of a successful repetition (with required payoff).

 

The extension of that is:

 

dot dot dah (wait for it.... ) bomb.

 

This where you get a really solid and accentuated payoff.

 

...building... ...building... ...variation... release.

 

In this way there is a visual surprise gained in the characters interactivity.

 

Hope this makes sense.

The beauty of your animation made me more fully see this opportunity.

[Animus]

Thanks Rodney!

I really like your scenario, that would build up a better, more coherent story.

I'll give it a try for sure.

 

Michel

[John Bigboote]

Wow---Rodney said exactly what I was going to recommend!(about the bottle not being drank by red-shirt guy...) It will help build your payoff.

[Animus]

First try with a little changed scenario. Still rough though.

What I would like would be to end the clip with the black guy putting back the bottle in the white guy's hand,

and then leave screen, but I won't have time for that.

No_sense_B.mov

 

Michel

[robcat2075]

They both look white to me.

 

I like the guy standing up at the end. That's a better acting choice.

 

 

He needs to get his weight over his feet before he pushes up however. Right now it looks like someone is pushing him up by his butt.

[Animus]

Thank you Robert!

 

A small update, I'll have 5 or 6 hours available to work on it till the deadline.

Let me know what needs the more improvement. Passing the bottle from one

hand to the other is difficult to animate, not sure if it works.

No_sense_C.mp4

 

Michel

[higginsdj]

The only thing that seems to be missing to me is secondary action and overlap - particularly in the arms and hands (fingers) throughout the animation. As it stands, the action looks quite stiff.

 

Cheers

[Rodney]

I think this fits in with what David is suggesting...

 

You've nailed the rhythm pretty well but it may be have a little too much similarity.

It may be best begin with the action already in motion and Red Shirts arm coming down.

Alernatively you might have the drink already going to Red's mouth at the beginning and coming down before Blue Shirt stabbingly points his finger at him. In this way the action keeps the viewer's eyes returning to Red's face.

 

Also, the first two times Red lifts the bottle he advances to what looks like the exact same place in each instance.

In order for the action to build you want to vary that a little.

[Animus]

Thank you both! After viewing it so many times, you need someone else eyes.

True, I didn't do much with the hands, I'll do a pass concentrating on making them more alive.

That could make quite a difference.

I put some time on overlapping, I have a hard time, the line is thin between good believable

overlap and desynchronized action, many of the changes I made with the timing looked bad,

I will work on fluidity,variation in timing between the characters, and secondary motion.

 

Michel

[higginsdj]

But don't go overboard and make them floaty. Remember moving holds and that overlapping action can do the moving holds for you. (and it's not just the hands and fingers, forearms and upper arms need some movement as well - not a lot - just so they don't look stiff and dead)

 

My problem is I tend to do too much movement and everything goes floaty.

 

Cheers

[Animus]

Yes, that's the problem I have, things get floaty easily when delaying movement.

The other problem I have is to insert secondary action without making the scene too busy.

More cartooney characters would probably give me more range.

 

Michel