Animation Illustrator

[Masna]

Hello everyone,

 

I haven't been on the forums in a while, except for the occasional lurking and quick troubleshooting, but after weeks of jumping from poly modeling, to C-coding, to flash animation, even to pixel art, I'm back to the Hash forums.

 

Like one of my old projects, Patapon, I'm using 3D splines on a 2D scale. I don't really know if I'm going to do anything with it. Just a quick test:

 

 

Thanks,

Jared

[robcat2075]

I wondered if someone might do that. Can you animate it?

[Masna]

I just rigged him... very badly too. So right now, no, he will have to stay inanimate. But I will make another model, with animation in mind. Hopefully this next one will be more successful.

[heyvern]

There are a couple of samples of this technique done in two different ways.

 

The first way I did it was to just use images exported from Illustrator as "cookie cut" image decals on very low patch grids. The second way was what you are doing, importing Illustrator and animating the mesh with bones.

 

You have to sort of look for it in this video. Near the beginning are the two very "toon" characters. The first one was done using the image cookie cut technique. Right after that is the guy talking, that one uses the "mesh" AI import technique. I think there is another example at the very end. You can sort of tell which is which by the interpolation. The "smooth" interpolation of the movements is the mesh version. The "step" interpolation is the image version. I used an image sequence for the mouth and face shapes.

 

I liked the mesh technique but it has some limitations. It is very hard to rig the shapes. The mesh has to create a filled shape so you have to have points in the correct locations to avoid creasing but also to allow for proper movement. The image cookie cut technique is very good as well and totally avoids worrying about where the cps are on the mesh since all the shapes are just simple grid meshes.

 

 

http://www.vernsworld.com/Siggraph_15.mp4

 

-vern

[Masna]

Vern, that was great! I never thought of doing using a cookie cut technique. I really like the expressions. For my character I was thinking of using on/off poses for in-program editing instead of having to worry about coordinating the timeline in both programs. There are limitations to drawing with just mesh, but it also has it's upside with being able to edit the figures right in the program, instead of using image sequences.

 

I'm working on a little animation right now. Here's the first screenshot:

 

[heyvern]

I made a feature request to Martin a few times for a "flat" fill technique for closed splines. Instead of requiring "legal patches" for 2D stuff like this you could fill any closed spline shape. My pitch to him was a very limited "patch" creation tool, just like the 5 point patch tool. This would only work for completely "flat" 2d meshes. You could select a completely flat closed spline and "fill" it. It would not work if the splines were "bent" into 3D shapes. It would be like "Illustrator" in A:M. I think this one simple feature could turn AM into a kick arse 2D animation program. With all the bones and poses and actions available you could pump out amazing cell style animations.

 

Anyway... I can only dream.

 

-vern

[Masna]

Hah hah! That would be awesome... A lot like a pen tool. Man, your a jeanyus.

 

So here's my first take. Pretty bad, I know, but up for improvement.

Abduction_Take_1.mov

[Gerry]

Hey, that's fun! There's a lot of potential there, especially if you wanted to mix flat and 3D, you wouldn't need to composite, just do it all in AM.

[Fuchur]

I remember there was a plugin for something like that... I think somehow connected to the font-wizard or something...

 

*Fuchur*

[Rodney]

I remember there was a plugin for something like that... I think somehow connected to the font-wizard or something...

 

I'm pretty sure the plugin your refer to was Circus Media's Cap plugin.

I'll have to check but the version I see is for v10.5/v11.

It does not play well with current versions.

 

It should be noted that it had limited usage for complex shapes.

For complex patterns its better to just use the Font or AI wizards with only the Face setting or stitch splines into place.

 

If the code is/was available perhaps it could be updated for use with v15.

 

I like your 2D/3D Jared!

 

Attached is the CMcap plugin for reference:

CM_Cap.zip

[John Bigboote]

After reading this thread and looking at the cool 'abduction' animation, my first thought is that this style would be great for the SWF exporter that zpider wrote, and is now included in A:M and none of us could ever figure out.

 

Y'know- when you think about it... all our A:M model files are- are 3-Dimensional Adobe Illustrator files with advanced materials (Illustrator has no such) that can be animated... and considering how many MILES ahead of AI files a Hash model is, and that they were originally developed at about the same time (Late 1980's) makes you appreciate how Martin is way ahead of his time.

[heyvern]

After reading this thread and looking at the cool 'abduction' animation, my first thought is that this style would be great for the SWF exporter that zpider wrote, and is now included in A:M and none of us could ever figure out.

 

That's why I thought this "2D" fill feature would be so cool for AM. With that flash export AM could become a kick arse SWF animation production tool. I mean real vector Flash not VIDEO Flash (someone always chimes in with "But I put AM renders in FLV files all the time!? ). Some people are "scared" of 3D, it would be cool for AM to just stick in this feature to expand their potential customer base.... I say "stick in" which is probably what Martin is mumbling to himself he will do to me for saying this. They wouldn't have to spend any effort to support it in the traditional sense. It would just be another patch option. Flash now has bones... but they stink something awful. Imagine AM bones warping 2D shapes.

 

I see it in my head... I can imagine it... there I go daydreaming again. This is one of my all time favorite ideas for AM though. I would use it a lot more with my current work. Like ten times more.

 

-vern

[Rodney]

There is a lot of ground to cover here. I hope this fits into Jared interests.

I've thought about adding a short tutorial on the AM2SWF plug but really didn't have enough to offer the discussion. I have had some success with it.

 

Its interesting that the issues with AM2SWF are very closely related to the Capping that is being discussed. Simple shapes... no problem... but as the geometry gets more complex the 'what ifs' do too.

 

Rather than drone on about such things I'll offer some insight into something that may be of use. Five point patches work really well for a variety of shapes and... once you've collected enough shapes you don't have to remodel the basic shapes again. You just have to arrange them.

 

Try this:

 

- Lathe a cylinder from a 2 point spline with 5 cross sections

- Delete the bottom circle (this will leave the top 5 CP circle)

- Select the 5 CP circle

- Note that the 5 point patch icon comes on

- Make the circle a 5 point patch

- Rotate to face the screen/camera head on

 

Now you can adjust the magnitude of the spline to form a variety of shapes (circle, stars, pentagon, flowers and other odds and ends) that weren't possible with a standard 4 point patch.

 

 

Any valid patch (3, 4, 5 or as stitched together) will help produce the shapes you need.

 

In cases where the Bias throws the splines off a little, adjusting the Ambiance color and intensity in the Group/Models Surface Properties assures you'll get one solid color. Watch that Gamma setting too. I've found it works best on zero for 2D imagery.

 

Note: Apply decals last or you'll get disconfiguring in the decal images.

Hide geometry you don't want to have continuous applied to.

 

Its not the moon but it is another method to create 2D shapes and images with A:M

[John Bigboote]

Flash now has bones... but they stink something awful. Imagine AM bones warping 2D shapes.

-vern

 

I doubt Flash lets you 'weight' the control-vortex to 2+ different bones like A:M does! We are SO spoiled!

[heyvern]

Rodney once again you inspire me.

 

I am thinking maybe we change how we think of "2D" model creation. It wouldn't need to be "perfect". A shape made up of several geometric shapes "stacked" would be just one shape visually. Even using bunches and bunches of 5pt patches could cut down considerably on the patch count. Hooks are a bonus too. Using hooks works perfectly for this technique. The ambiance setting can help however the beauty of using AM for this technique is having access to the same shading and lighting features. Ambiance could blow out some of those crease artifacts but limit some of the rendering options.

 

-vern

[Masna]

Thanks everyone!

 

Rodney: Great tutorial. I took a lot of it into account on this next image.

 

Heyvern: I really had no problem with rendering 2d 5-point patches, but I didn't get some artifacts on some of the hooks.

 

Anyway, here's a new 2d Dragon model I made in about 2 hours:

 

[Rodney]

Nice dragon!

 

You demonstrate nicely why there is no reason many of our decals (even animated decals) can't be made in A:M.

 

Lighting can be used to nice effect on flat geometry too.

The only real 'trick' to the art seems to be starting from a mid gray tone or darker rather than white.

Starting from a white object is hardly ever a good idea as its hard to get brighter than white.

 

The attached is a 5 point patch animated over 30 frames (6 frames represented at 5 frame intervals).

The only things animated is the one white light (with a negative value) moving over the top of the thing and changing of the patches Bias Magnitude values.

Four other lights placed near the patches CPs provide the other color shifts.

 

Edit: Should have said... the brightness of all the lights were animated throughout as well.

[Rodney]

...and we can leverage A:M's considerable power to relight and recolor existing images.

Special Effects included!

[Masna]

Hah! Awesome lens flare, Rodney!

 

The lighting is really cool. I'll play around with it a little bit tomorrow.

[Rodney]

Apologies for messing with your dragon but I thought he'd look nice in color.

 

I was going to render out a flickering flame-like lens flaring thingy... but apparently I've surpassed the the level of my competency here. The lens flare doesn't show in final render and not enough time to investigate before work.

 

Of course to get a similar lighting effect on our objects we could just light a 4 CP patch and then use that to decal the objects in the scene.

[Masna]

Oh, hah hah! It's not a problem, really. I think he looks really cool that way.

 

That 4 point patch with a decal idea is almost like a computerized cell-animation technique. I think it could be very useful if you want to have multiple positions or facial expression while maintaining a low patch count, not to mention doing image editing that you otherwise couldn't accomplish with A:M.

[frosteternal]

I played with a similar look back in October 2007 for my Halloween animation - I think my design classes had affected my brain and I was thinking in design elements.

 

http://www.hash.com/amfilms/search/entry.php?entry=1337

 

The main character is 3D rendered at 100% ambient to give it a cut-out look. Most of the backdrops are only silhouette. I think a combination of true 3D elements with cutout shapes is an effective technique to combines the strengths efficiently.

 

Pros - Easy to light, easy to model backdrops, very distinctive look, nice bold colours, fast renders

 

Cons - Less detail (may not matter), still have to think in 3D for actual character design, have to think in silhouette (which is actually a plus too, makes for stronger poses.)

[Masna]

Frosteternal:

 

That's one of my favorite of the A:M films. I really love the 3D-2D idea, but feel also that 2D has it's pros and cons as well:

 

2D Pros and Cons

Pros:

Good for certain artistic effects

You can add as much or as little detail as needed

You can light them (I don't think that works with 100% ambient)

 

Cons:

Patching is very important, and can get crazy when doing weird poses

Some rendering options can cause artifacts

 

These are just a couple off the top of my head, but as for 2D-3D or just 2D guess it all depends on what you're trying to achieve.

[DarkLimit]

-That's a really great dragon..

 

-I also did some exploring a while back with 2D shapes in A:M, it's fascinating....

 

A dragon I did but never really got around to finishing the scene:

 

[Masna]

Wow! I love those render settings.