TheSpleen Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 deffinantly keeping an eye on this topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted June 30, 2009 Admin Share Posted June 30, 2009 When I get a chance, I'll post some images to show the differences. Looking forward to it David! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 I had a little time this evening, so I did a couple of renders to show the relaxed shoulders. Here are two "T" pose images of Sam, one with the shoulders unrelaxed (the old setup) and one with his shoulders relaxed (the updated model) and an image of Bertram with his shoulders relaxed in the "T" pose. I also rendered out a twelve frame Quicktime to show sort of what Bertram's shoulders will look like when his arms are lowered...there are still things to fix, it's just for a quick illustration. You'll notice from the differences in the Sam images that I've been modeling characters with their shoulders too hunched. I would adjust the shoulders by lowering them when animating (what little I've done, mostly tests), which is not the way to go...a lesson I should have learned years ago. I should have some more time over the next couple of days...I'll see if I can get some work done on the face rig update and add the bowing pose to the Quad feet. Bertram_shoulders_07_08_2009_H264.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 looking great. Shoulders look good relaxed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 8, 2009 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 8, 2009 that looks good. One detail I noticed is that the armpit area of the shirt actually is going up when he lowers his arm. I don't have a suggestion for solving that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 One detail I noticed is that the armpit area of the shirt actually is going up when he lowers his arm. I don't have a suggestion for solving that. Yessir, there is still some CP Weighting to do...and probably a fan bone or two. Thanks, Robert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 I got a few things done since my last post. I tweaked the shoulders in the rig a little so that it is now possible to use the shoulder controllers to squetch (previously you had to unhide the shoulder squetch null, now you will be able to squetch the shoulder either way). Because of Bertram's construction, I'm probably going to be using a fair amount of shoulder squetching, so, bonus. I also added foot bowing to the Quad Rig. Tonight I'm going to do more work on the face rig to see if I can get what I'm after there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve392 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 The shoulder sounds good,doese the foot arch then with the bowing David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 The shoulder sounds good,doese the foot arch then with the bowing David Yessir, the foot will bow/arch on the Quad Rig like the other bowing poses. A quadruped's feet are generally rotated so that the quad is walking on it's toes, so adding the foot bowing helps to give a more consistent look if you are bowing the rest of the leg. Here's a quick example video with the geometry bones unhidden, Steve. The only controls being rotated in the video are the IK foot controllers and toe controls. Quad_foot_bowing_07_11_2009.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtpeak2 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Looks cool. Can't wait to see all your updates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve392 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Thats looking good ,it works very smooth ,is it done with waiting David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 Looks cool. Can't wait to see all your updates. I just shot you some links, Mark. Thats looking good ,it works very smooth ,is it done with waiting David The legs do use CP Weighting, there's a lot of CP Weighting required in the the rig in general. The foot bowing uses the same setup as the calves, so it was a quick addition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 Tonight I fixed the foot squetching in the Quad...adding the foot bowing introduced a problem, but it should be fixed now. I also made "human feet" versions of the Quad because the setup I had in there wasn't as convertible as I had originally thought. Now, I'm back to the face rig update again...hopefully, I'll be able to show something soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Today I separated the toe squetching from the foot squetching, made the toe squetching controlled by scaling the toe controls, fixed the 'Z' rotation of the toes and updated the toe add-ons for the biped and Quad versions of the rig. I'll do a bunch of testing and double-checking on the updates tomorrow...and try to get back on the face rig update again. Here's a quick clip showing the toe squetching update. foot_squetching_07_16_2009.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve392 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Wow he sure is a bendy strechy guy,that looks good ,could do a lot with that I think.You could make some real funny stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted August 1, 2009 Author Share Posted August 1, 2009 It's been a very busy couple of weeks at work again...so, normal. I did manage to update the biped and Quad installation rigs and add-ons with the latest foot squetching setup and have done quite a bit of testing to make sure I didn't miss anything...of course, I'll continue testing as I go along. It looks like I'll be able to eliminate 24 compensates in the biped rig (which would leave around 75...still quite a few, but better than it was), possibly three more if my thinking is right. That will also mean I can eliminate some in the Quad rig, but I'm not sure how many yet (at least 8, but probably more)...I'll get on that tomorrow and then start testing to see if I broke anything in making the changes. I'll have to go back and update two of the tutorial videos because of the latest additions, but that shouldn't take more than an hour or so when I can get back to it. Things continue to get better in the rig...just not in the direction I intended at the moment (I still need to get back to the face rig update and then the gut rig). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 I did some work and I think I got the compensates down to 57 in the biped rig...still a lot of testing before that is confirmed, but I think that's where it's at so far. I've got some more tweaks that should make installation a little easier that I'm going to work on tonight and then I've got to get the Quad Rig caught up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 I'm down to 21 compensates remaining in the biped rig...I'm pretty sure (not 100% though) I can get rid of all of them except one, which wouldn't be a bad thing. Still a lot of testing to do and then update and test the Quad Rig. I'll be back on it late tonight. Then, back on the face rig update and the gut rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted August 6, 2009 Admin Share Posted August 6, 2009 I'm down to 21 compensates remaining in the biped rig...I'm pretty sure (not 100% though) I can get rid of all of them except one Thats pretty crazy. I hope you are going to let us in on the secret of how you reduced all of those constraints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 I'm down to 21 compensates remaining in the biped rig...I'm pretty sure (not 100% though) I can get rid of all of them except one Thats pretty crazy. I hope you are going to let us in on the secret of how you reduced all of those constraints. Like everything else, it's simple once you see it. If the bone you are translating to is in the same location or the bone you are orienting like is oriented the same, it doesn't need a compensate. Here is an example Project with a simple arm...there are no compensates needed on the two "orient like" constraints because of the orientation of the targets. For the rig, it just took a little more fancy footwork to get that accomplished. Some of the "aim at" constraints were replaced with "orient like", a few bones had to be added, etc. v13_eliminating_compensates_example.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted August 6, 2009 Admin Share Posted August 6, 2009 If the bone you are translating to is in the same location or the bone you are orienting like is oriented the same, it doesn't need a compensate. You are right. Too simple. Probably why I would never have thought of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strohbehn Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I'm down to 21 compensates remaining in the biped rig...I'm pretty sure (not 100% though) I can get rid of all of them except one, which wouldn't be a bad thing. Are you saying that it may be possible, by the time you're done with this, to install the entire Squetch rig and only one compensate would need to be reset???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 I'm down to 21 compensates remaining in the biped rig...I'm pretty sure (not 100% though) I can get rid of all of them except one, which wouldn't be a bad thing. Are you saying that it may be possible, by the time you're done with this, to install the entire Squetch rig and only one compensate would need to be reset???? Yessir...actually, I think I can get rid of the one I thought I couldn't, so, no compensates. The biggest hurdle in installing the rig will now be the CP Weighting. Sometimes you just have to look at things sideways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtpeak2 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 That's great David. The 2008 rig has no compensation either, it's pretty simple as long as you plan for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 That's great David. The 2008 rig has no compensation either, it's pretty simple as long as you plan for it. The 2008 Rig kicks ass, incredibly good job on it, Mark! Also, I want to express my gratitude for all of your help on the Squetch Rig...I don't think I can say that enough. I tend to be kind of myopic when I'm working on something, so obvious things can easily get by me, unfortunately. Going over everything in the rig as much as I have over the past year has brought about a ton of improvements. I kick myself sometimes because I feel like I should have caught them the first time. As an illustration of one of the changes, here is a Zip containing the old version of Squetchy Sam's tongue (contains compensates and "aim at" constraints) and the updated version (no compensates). Sams_tongue_differences_08_06_2009.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtpeak2 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I don't know about kickin ass, it's ok. Once you get rid of all the compensates in the squetch rig, the 2008 rig won't be needed anymore. That's why I built it in the first place, so people didn't have to recompensate the constraints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*A:M User* Shelton Posted August 7, 2009 *A:M User* Share Posted August 7, 2009 Mark your rig is awesome!! David can't wait to see the changes. Looking forward to rigging Cupid's Sick characters. I hope I don't drive you guys nuts over the next few months. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 I don't know about kickin ass, it's ok. Once you get rid of all the compensates in the squetch rig, the 2008 rig won't be needed anymore. That's why I built it in the first place, so people didn't have to recompensate the constraints. Nosir, I disagree...the 2008 rig kicks ass. The Squetch Rig still isn't going to be everyone's "cup 'o tea" and the 2008 rig is easy to install, "bullet-proof" and full-featured. It is definitely needed. One of these days, we will manage to convince you of your awesomeness, Mark. I'm still thinking about a "Mark kicks ass" float for the parade in your honor...just be prepared to wave to the crowd for the entire three mile parade route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Just to keep people updated, I got rid of all of the compensates in the biped rig a couple of weeks ago...I still have an installation issue I need to fix on part of the face rig. I haven't done much on this for the past couple of weeks...lots of overtime at work. I should have time this week...hopefully, I'll get over my present hurdle quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 I finished getting the biped rig installation problems worked out and have started catching the Quad installation rigs up...still a lot of testing to do on everything. The thing I worked on might be helpful to others, so I made a quick example model that I'll attach to this post. The intention is to keep the roll handles of the cheek and jowl pointing forward so that those bones are facing the front of the character. In the example model (and in the actual rig), the bones can turn the wrong direction, but only if you move their origins where they shouldn't go. The cheek's origin should always be above the "nostril_target" and the jowl's origin should always be below it. If that is true, the roll handles should remain oriented so that they point toward the front of the character (ignoring whether they are also pointing up or down, that part doesn't matter)...at least I haven't found it to not work in the tests I've run. This update will eliminate one of the manual adjustments in the installation process caused by some of the Expressions used in the face rig. installation_testing_08_25_2009.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve392 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Took a look and it work's very well David .I don't really understand the how of it but it looks complex with all the bones that make it happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Took a look and it work's very well David .I don't really understand the how of it but it looks complex with all the bones that make it happen It's pretty much just a bone set to "aim at" and "translate to" a target bone on each end with an identical child bone and a bone flipped upside down with "aim at" and "translate to" constraints pointing at the same target bones (but flipped). Bones set up like that will roll on their 'Z', so usually I use an "aim roll at" constraint to control the roll, but in this case the target would have to do some moving...so I went another direction. The child bone will rotate on its' 'Z' the same as its' parent, but, it also has an Expression on it that will rotate it like the 'Z' of the counter rotating bone (which rotates in the opposite direction of the parent because of its' orientation). The biggest thing, was to change the order of rotation on the counter-rotating bone to "XYZ", or it would flip the 'Z' rotation (which made it jump to correct itself). Hope that clears it up, Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtpeak2 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Seems to work for me, David, though I didn't check to see after export. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted August 29, 2009 Author Share Posted August 29, 2009 Seems to work for me, David, though I didn't check to see after export. I haven't checked after export...I'll have to do that tonight. Thanks, Mark! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted August 29, 2009 Author Share Posted August 29, 2009 Great call, Mark! Exporting the previous model did change the 'Z' rotation some, but changing the "Roll method" to "Roll-History" appears to have fixed things. While I was at it, I changed the "Euler order" to "XYZ" on all of the rotating bones. I haven't run a test on the updated model that got it to break...but I'll do more testing tomorrow night to be sure. I'll attach the updated model here if anyone wants to mess with it. I also updated the biped installation rigs with the fix. installation_testing_08_29_2009.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*A:M User* Shelton Posted August 30, 2009 *A:M User* Share Posted August 30, 2009 Thanks David for all the hard work!! I just got at it tonight I started rigging the characters I will keep you informed Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 Another quick update on the progress. I finished getting rid of the compensates in the Quad Rig tonight (still have to do a lot of testing...actually, I think I have to do a quick update to the tail), which will catch it up with the state of the biped rig. Next I'm going to work on the face rig upgrade, adapt that for addition in the Quad Rig and then finish the gut rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwhitaker Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Hi itsjustme' I have been waiting for your Quad rig, I have a cat, that's rigged with 3D Artz. not sure if that's the way to, go. but it works OK, not the greatest rig, I don't think it was intended as a Quard rig . but with a good rig, It will sure help so thanks for working so hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 It's been a while since I posted an update on what progress I'm making, so I figured I should mention what I'm doing. I've been working on updating the tail for the Quad, which would also be used for the biped...which I'm hoping to use for some other things as well, if everything goes right. I started with several possible directions that are starting to combine into a multiple control setup. It still has a lot of evolving to do before it gets to the point where I can get opinions, but I'm starting to get some things that I think could be useful. I'm going through an extreme lack of free time lately, so it's not moving as fast as I'd like, but I'm still trudging forward a little at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 I finally got a little free time and did more work on the tail rig. I got most of what I'm after, but still have a lot to do. I'm going to tear a few things back out in order to simplify some of the controls and work on some more tweaks. If I'm lucky, I might be able to show what I've got sometime next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*A:M User* Shelton Posted October 26, 2009 *A:M User* Share Posted October 26, 2009 Hi David I loaded a squetch rig model from several versions back into AM v15g and I could not select the model in the chor. In fact the model kept crashing. However, I removed the rig and deleted all the relationships and now AM seems to working. Would you take a look at the model? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 Hi David I loaded a squetch rig model from several versions back into AM v15g and I could not select the model in the chor. In fact the model kept crashing. However, I removed the rig and deleted all the relationships and now AM seems to working. Would you take a look at the model? Steve I haven't come across a problem like that...throw it at me and I'll see if I can figure it out, Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Hi David I loaded a squetch rig model from several versions back into AM v15g and I could not select the model in the chor. In fact the model kept crashing. However, I removed the rig and deleted all the relationships and now AM seems to working. Would you take a look at the model? Steve I haven't come across a problem like that...throw it at me and I'll see if I can figure it out, Steve. It's a problem with 15g - the models with the squetch rig used in Tinwoodman work in 15g, the ones with the new squetch (used in Scarecrow) don't work in 15g (I believe lite rig has same problem, not sure)...they all work in ver 15 e,f...Perhaps it is related to which version of A:M the model got rigged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 Hi David I loaded a squetch rig model from several versions back into AM v15g and I could not select the model in the chor. In fact the model kept crashing. However, I removed the rig and deleted all the relationships and now AM seems to working. Would you take a look at the model? Steve I haven't come across a problem like that...throw it at me and I'll see if I can figure it out, Steve. It's a problem with 15g - the models with the squetch rig used in Tinwoodman work in 15g, the ones with the new squetch (used in Scarecrow) don't work in 15g (I believe lite rig has same problem, not sure)...they all work in ver 15 e,f...Perhaps it is related to which version of A:M the model got rigged? I just checked (in v15g) a few models I have that were rigged in v13t...they work fine. Those have versions of the rig that have been worked on in the past year, so maybe there's something different. I know that Expressions have changed slightly since the original TWO characters were rigged and now require some parentheses to be added, but that's the only thing that I think have been encountered prior to this problem. If I can get a model from someone that is confirmed to not work, I'll do some checking...either post it in this thread or shoot me an e-mail. ---------------------------------- EDIT ---------------------------------- I'm thinking I should release a rig update when I get the tail done, but before I get the face rig update finished...there have been so many updates and fixes, I feel like it's due (then, I'll post another update once the face rig update is finished). I'll also want to make sure this new problem is taken care of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 The test I did in 15g: start new default chor with Trot only (rigged in 15e?) - can select trot, can switch between director/chor mode & skeletal mode - however eventually it seems that at some point (very quickly) can not switch modes in chor on that model by selecting trot in chor window, nor in pws - try it I think it's a selection type thing - maybe related to new filtering change in 15g? - maybe related to new compensation default change in 15g ? However if add tinwoodman (rigged in 13s,t) to same chor in 15g with trot - can switch modes between director and skeletal on tinwoodman, but something is still funny with trot Both models work as should in 15e chors - can switch between skeletal and director mode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*A:M User* Shelton Posted October 26, 2009 *A:M User* Share Posted October 26, 2009 I remembered reading something that Ken and David posted to Holmes about the rig. Both were using 15g. David do you want me to send you my model or do you have enough with SO characters? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 I remembered reading something that Ken and David posted to Holmes about the rig. Both were using 15g. David do you want me to send you my model or do you have enough with SO characters? Steve Send me your model too, Steve...it will give me more things to compare. I haven't been keeping up with the SO characters, if someone could point me at Trot, I'll take a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 path: SO/Data/Actors/Trot/Trot.mdl but in case you don't have SO database - here is trot model - no decals, materials TrotNOdecals.mdl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 The model bone was hidden in the "Show_and_Hide_Rig_Components/hide_face_setup_bones/mouth/hide_mouth_lr_bones" Pose...easy fix. I've fixed it in the next update versions as well. Here is an updated Trot. Hope that helps. TrotNOdecals_update.mdl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Hmmm...Very Interesting...Yes - it works for me now...but I wonder what changed in 15g to have this show up (same rig wasn't a problem in previous versions)... Yay David! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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