5 point patches (Splines 101.5)

[MJL]

It was suggested that I start a new topic thread on 5 point patches. It is an issue that evidently keeps popping up.

 

In searching the archives I found A couple of suggested remedies (hitting the period key twice, among others) that haven't seemed to work for me.

 

The situation has cropped up, for me at least, while doing exercises 10:The FW-190 Fighter , 11: the Giraffe, and 11.5: Make A Face from ToaA:M.

 

When I click on the 5-point patch button (at the right side tool bar) the cursor acquires a '5-point patch" icon and the button goes dark, but no matter where or how I click with the 5-point cursor nothing happens and the cursor returns to normal.

 

Feeling like an idiot is not an unusual feeling for me, but I've got a hunch I'm not alone. It may be a commonly occuring phenomenon that needs to be addressed.

 

When the holes happened in exercised 10 & 11, I faked my way through it, but it has become apparent I need to understand why it is not working.

 

Awaiting enlightenment from the great gathering of knowledge from the massed minds of fellow inmates.

 

Thanks, Myron

Cooper_1.prj

[robcat2075]

First thing i notice is that you dont' actually say you selected the 5 CP s.

 

are you clicking the purple "Patch Group Mode" button? that's not the 5-point maker.

 

 

 

lasso or shift select your five CPs and then hit the icon with the pentagon on it

[MJL]

First thing i notice is that you dont' actually say you selected the 5 CP s.

 

are you clicking the purple "Patch Group Mode" button? that's not the 5-point maker.

 

 

 

lasso or shift select your five CPs and then hit the icon with the pentagon on it

 

 

Thanks Robcat2075, you have set the universe aright. The cosmos is spinning once again in greased grooves. But what, pray-tell, does the purple"patch Group Mode" do?

[robcat2075]

But what, pray-tell, does the purple"patch Group Mode" do?

 

you can use it to point to a patch (there has to be one there first) and all the CPs of that patch will be "selected" (creating a "group"). you can shift-select several patches to form a larger "group". This may be easier than trying to lasso the CPs.

 

Or you can select an existing group in the PWS and then Shift-select a patch to add it to the group.

[Caroline]

I use the patch tool when selecting patches for grouping for decalling. Also, when selecting for flipping normals - when you come to put hair on objects, the hair sometimes grows inwards, which means that the 'normals' are flipped - ie the patch is inside out. Otherwise I don't use it, I don't think.

 

Glad you got your 5 pointers sorted out.

[Caroline]

It's a good start to the Cooper exercise.

 

However, you have a star at the top right of the eye. If you see 5 lines going into a control point, you will have creasing problems. Splines are a continuous line, so when they cross, the control point only has 4 lines into it, ie 2 splines.

 

Problem:

Solution:

 

You will need to use the K key to break a spline, after you have clicked on it, or if the spline does not break, then the delete key. My solution was to break the two problem splines, then add a new spline in for the lower one. (You could use a hook somewhere, probably.)

 

Also a very useful key for checking your splineage is the comma key. This will show you where your splines run nicely across or down your face, and highlight any problems where the splines look continuous, but aren't.

[MJL]

Thanks, You Guys !!!

 

The knowledge that you folks are out there (in here?) is a major comfort.

 

The exercise was extremely valuable. I've gleaned a major amount of knowledge and experience from it, as well as a couple of new friends.

 

I've "completed" the exercise, kind of it's not perfect, (too many splines made the contours rougher) I'll probably revisit it again later.

Here's a JPG of what I ended up with.

 

At this rate I may be able to start producing my video in a decade or two.

 

This software is more fun than any game ever invented!

 

 

In the immortal words of Bartles & James: "Thanks for your support."

 

Myron

[robcat2075]

He looks a bit like his nose is running, but I'd say that's a pretty successful first attempt at a face.

 

Onward and upward!

[Caroline]

That's great - it looks like you've got good curvature on the cheeks - that's what I find hard, not making flat faces.

 

This software is more fun than any game ever invented!

I hear you - I'm no longer a Civ addict.

[KenH]

Excellent first face.

[heyvern]

That's great - it looks like you've got good curvature on the cheeks - that's what I find hard, not making flat faces.

 

This software is more fun than any game ever invented!

I hear you - I'm no longer a Civ addict.

 

Holy cow! They make games for the computer too? Wow!

 

That explains a lot. I thought that "Solitaire" application was some kind of spreadsheet. No wonder my invoices weren't adding up right.

 

 

-vern

[Jeba]

First thing i notice is that you dont' actually say you selected the 5 CP s.

 

are you clicking the purple "Patch Group Mode" button? that's not the 5-point maker.

 

 

 

lasso or shift select your five CPs and then hit the icon with the pentagon on it

 

 

I've been using this for a week or so now and i'm still baffled.

Where on EARTH is the pentagon tool/5-point patch? I have also been using the patch group button. But I cannot find the 5-point ptcha maker.

[itsjustme]

First thing i notice is that you dont' actually say you selected the 5 CP s.

 

are you clicking the purple "Patch Group Mode" button? that's not the 5-point maker.

 

 

 

lasso or shift select your five CPs and then hit the icon with the pentagon on it

 

 

I've been using this for a week or so now and i'm still baffled.

Where on EARTH is the pentagon tool/5-point patch? I have also been using the patch group button. But I cannot find the 5-point ptcha maker.

 

The tool isn't active until you select the five points...here's a quick video that might help.

five_point_patch_selection_H264.mov

[Gerry]

Hi Jeba- First of all welcome to the forums and to Animation Master! The five-point patch button is a little tricky. As David's vid shows, you select the five points either with the lasso, or, if the mesh is too dense and you can't isolate the points, you shift-select them, and the button *should* highlight, indicating that the five points are actually selected.

 

However, sometimes the button won't highlight. I've found that it sometimes depends on the order you select them in. Awhile back there was a thread on this topic and someone (I think Stian) had a really handy trick to select them properly, but I can't for the life of me remember, and I'm too lazy to go poking through pages of old threads to find it.

 

So here's my equally lazy workaround. If you select the five points and the button doesn't highlight, deselect them and re-select in a different order. Keep trying this until the button highlights and click it, and you're done.

 

If anyone remembers Stian's trick, post it!

[robcat2075]

The tool isn't active until you select the five points...here's a quick video that might help.

 

Why does that movie play completely blank for me? My QT plays other H264 movies.

[NancyGormezano]

So here's my equally lazy workaround. If you select the five points and the button doesn't highlight, deselect them and re-select in a different order. Keep trying this until the button highlights and click it, and you're done.

 

If anyone remembers Stian's trick, post it!

 

1) This works for me - select the 5 CPs (any order) - if the green 5 CP patch maker doesn't light up - then hit hide - leaving just the 5 points. Re- lasso the 5 points and the greenie thingy shows up 95-98% of time. When it doesn't - usually means there is something funny about a neighboring hook, or discontinuous splines. In either case - have to respline something usually.

 

2) The other thing to try: select the 5 cps (any order) - and if greenie doesn't show up - hit . (period) TWICE - to deselect and reselect - greenie should show

 

And yes, I can't see David's H264 video either - I just get all black

[Gerry]

that's odd, it plays fine for me. Hey Nan, that "hitting the period" may have been Stian's trick. I only recall that it was vastly simplified from the way I've been doing it. In fact I believe I posted to that thread saying "now there's a trick I'll remember!" or something equally untrue.

[pixelplucker]

For some reason simply clicking on the points you may be selecting tangent control points and not necessarily the ones you want. What I mean by that is splines seem to work in either x or y fashion and behave as if there are 2 in the same spot. Dragging to select seems to bypass this oddity.

[itsjustme]

Why does that movie play completely blank for me? My QT plays other H264 movies.

 

And yes, I can't see David's H264 video either - I just get all black

 

I'm not sure why it's not showing up...it's 900x600 in size, H264 encoded video at 5 frames per second with no audio. I converted it from a desktop capture that was an AVI (made with Camstudio) using SUPER. It plays fine in my Quicktime (v7.5.5) and VLC (v0.9.8a).

 

Here's the same video exported from Quicktime Pro...does this one work for you?

 

I'd like to get this figured out because I'm using the same method to make the tutorials I'm presently working on.

five_point_patch_selection_H264_new.mov

[Gerry]

For some reason simply clicking on the points you may be selecting tangent control points and not necessarily the ones you want. What I mean by that is splines seem to work in either x or y fashion and behave as if there are 2 in the same spot. Dragging to select seems to bypass this oddity.

That may be it. I've never been able to figure this out, just worked with it. Of course lassoing or dragging makes more sense, just sometimes the mesh is too dense to easily circle the five you want.

[NancyGormezano]

Here's the same video exported from Quicktime Pro...does this one work for you?

 

I'd like to get this figured out because I'm using the same method to make the tutorials I'm presently working on.

 

Yes that works - using QT 7.1.6 winxp pro

 

I found if I had upgraded QT - then it produced other problems - but that was 7.2? I hate upgrading qt, not only because it then forces paying for a new qt pro - which seems ridiculous, but because invariably - it causes other problems, elsewhere.

 

7.5.5 already - wow am I behind

 

As for lassoing - it doesn't always work with complicated meshes for me - sometimes need to do the dot dot dance.

[Jeba]

You know i got so worked up and when i finally saw it i felt like a big idiot!

I'm still getting to grips with making a successful patch.

 

Thanks a lot though.