Scottj3d Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Hi all, I am new to 3d software period. AM is the software I plan to learn with and I just started to understand the modeling aspects of the software. This is a screen shot of a rotoscope of my head that I did this weekend. I am still learning to decal and have had limited success as I take the selected "face" into a pose window but cant for the life of me figure out how to flatten it to decal it but I'll get it. I have about 12 hrs on this one and suspect the spline count is too high and need to work on the spline connections at the nostrils and corners of the mouth but am still very happy that it actually looks like a face. I am used to clay and paint but this is addictive. I have looked at some of the other work on the forum and it looks like a good place to learn and share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Got a render? My initial comments would be that it looks pretty good. There may be some creases because of the high density of splines and some of the directions of splines. Looks great for a 1st model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobinjim Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Only 12 hours? Amazing! Keep going... soon you'll be a new testimonial for the Hash folks! Keep it up; can't wait to see a side view and texturizing! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Smith Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 For your first head model, let alone your first mesh, that's mighty fine. You're right about it running a little thick on the splines, but other than that it looks great. =) Congrats! Now the next step: modeling for animation... that makes it trickier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 3, 2004 Author Share Posted February 3, 2004 Actually the eyes were my first model but they needed a head so I tried my first rotoscope to give them a home. I have made primitives, tubes, spheres etc but nothing that looked like anything worth finding a forum to post it on. I'll work on the render soon as I can and maybe make a copy and rework the splines as I haven't practiced placement of hooks yet. The animation part is still very intimidating but once I master modeling, decaling, and bone rigging maybe I will be ready to tackle the hard stuff.Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 3, 2004 Author Share Posted February 3, 2004 Heres the render (thanks for asking, I needed to know how to do that) I suspected the nostril and mouth area would not be right but I did not think I would have creases across the cheeks. I'll rework it and post it when I get it ready. Thanks for the tips! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iham Wrong Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Hey that's a great face you got there. You did and excellent job of spline placement in proportional to the musculature. Keep that model in case you want to build a static model of yourself; such as a granite statue. Toss a couple of the library combiner materials on it for texture and grunge Perhaps you could use it for that virtual garden spot. Place the possessed figurine in a visible area, but have it move very slowly when no one; (except the camera); is looking. It could follow a haunted garden or legacy by heirloom theme as such. You could also use that statuette as a trademark in all of your images just for fun. Perhaps in a classical thinker pose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenH Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Excellent! You don't need any help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Excellent! You don't need any help I disagree slightly, It looks really great for a first model but there are some things to work on. One, the model has tons of creases caused by too many splines. Second, the model is assymetrical, use the copy/flip/attach tool. Third, the eye holes are bigger than his eyes and you can see behind his head. As I said it looks really good and with a few tweaks it will be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTalbotski Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Very nice for a first head model! Now, welcome to the world of endless tweaks! I look forward to any updates you post, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modernhorse Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Holy Moley - first head ?! I'd be afraid, very afraid to post my first attempt. If you've gotten this far with this few models, you're well on your way !!! Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnArtbox Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Looks great for a first. Spline heavy, but the fact that you've come from a tradional art background has given you a great start Welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 4, 2004 Author Share Posted February 4, 2004 I have been reading everything I can get my hands on and especially spend alot of time at the AM resource matrix just trying to get an understanding of how to do things. About 2 weeks ago it all started to click and I feel more comfortable (actually ADDICTED) in the modeling window and am starting to see how to make and connect the basic shapes to tweak into objects. And yet I have so much to learn. I made the upper teeth and gums for the head and will post them when I make a few more tweaks but I think my splinemanship is improving. I need to work on bumps and decals and tackle the body making process as well. Thanks for all the compliments and the critique's. It's good to be here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iham Wrong Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 It's apparent that being an artist has an advantage in this medium. You and many others here have proven that. Since I'm not an artist I have nothing to contribute, but I can point out one when I see one. Here's an artist: I'm not sure if you saw this thread or not, but Mach's modeling techniques are worth noting. http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2755 There are many more, but that silli-ninni-littity thing has kicked in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 5, 2004 Author Share Posted February 5, 2004 I am definately heavy on the splines! Thats a nice thing about this forum. Seeing other peoples approach to modeling helps to evolve your own. There is alot of good art to gain ideas and inspiration from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kole00 Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Great Job on the head man! With my head im also having problems with spline configuration and how not to use so many please keep on posting. You also gave me some inspiration on doing my first realistic head model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 5, 2004 Author Share Posted February 5, 2004 Thanks. I will finish reworking the splines this weekend and post the images of before and after then. Here is the upper mandible. I had to lower the rez a bit as I am having trouble uploading the larger image. 56K modem. I will be tucking the tips of the four front teeth in tonight and trying some hooks to knock out the ripples at the top of the gums and get some light on the gums as well. It's great when things start to "click". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTalbotski Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 It looks like things have really clicked for you. Nice modeling! Unless you plan to show the tops of the gums, why bother tweaking them? There are always lots of other areas that more important to tweak. I'm basically lazy, that why I say that. Keep going, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 6, 2004 Author Share Posted February 6, 2004 I just wanted to smoothe things out and practice some hooks. I think I like the previous pair but with the tips tucked in . I smoothed it out a bit more and figure most of the creasing wont be seen anyways. Now back to the head... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lium Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 That is very good first model especially a head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 6, 2004 Author Share Posted February 6, 2004 Is there a simple way to flatten the mesh. I have not found an executable explaination of the process. As I can gather I need to go into the action window and find a contextual menu or something to tell AM which plane to flatten to. And if I have a model of the teeth and select only the exterior surface and hide the cp's will it flatten only the selection and not the whole mesh. I have the David Rogers book in front of me but I must be denser than my mesh. I would appreciate any leads. I can't wait to get some more practice with decals and want to try some bumpmaps. I'm hoping this will help me to find the balance between the detail of the mesh verses adding detail through digital trickery. I made the decals for my eyes but did not flatten the mesh for the spheres, I simply used the planar application method and it seemed too easy. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Find Jim Talbot's tutorial, it talks about exactly what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrockhouse Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 I am really proud of my brother. He has always been talented. When he painted the Enterprise using Microsoft Paint I was amazed. Now he has taken it to a new level. The man never ceases to amaze me. He can paint, sculpt, do claymation animation, he really is a marvel and a wonderful brother!!! Great work Scott. Bonny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 7, 2004 Author Share Posted February 7, 2004 Maybe good work. If I can get my nostrils to connect to the face without that creasing then it will be pretty good work. I am in a quantum loop. I get the nostrils right, then the mouth goes wrong. Step back fix the mouth and the nostrils go wrong. The trick is to tie it all together(smoothly) with fewer splines then comes the great work. Gotta stay in the shallow side of the pool before I take my water wings off and go to the deep side sis. Browse around the forum and you will see some great work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iham Wrong Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 It took some searching (not that easily done) but I found Jim's first tutorial. http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2315 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 7, 2004 Author Share Posted February 7, 2004 Many thanks Frank. I appreciate your efforts. I downloaded both tut's and will dive in and maybe have a look at his mesh to see if I can obtain that 2001 moment feeling again and fix my mesh. Jim, I had a look at your site today and somehow I cant see someone doing that kind of work on a Geforce MX, maybe a Quadro. Your work is impressive (I could see the main page and the woman on the link for more but they were the only pages I could navigate) and the swinging head,"awesome". I must have stared at it for 15 mins. I aspire to reach that level of realism. I just hope they will let me have a PC in the nursing home. (or rubber room if I don't figure out the critical areas that I am "snagged" on). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iham Wrong Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Hehe! I can see it now. Greenglen's Nursing Home presents "Pushing Miss Daisy" A novel animation of geriatric proportions that exposes a world of discovery and explorers the unseen potentials of senility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 Thankfully I made progress. It was a copy of the original but about all that is left of it is the eyelids. Still a bit patchy and womanly from the front. who knows I could save a copy and it could star as miss daisy. I'll get it tweaked in and do a render. It is probably still a bit thick but it is much lighter than the original. Now I can watch the tut's a few more times and start learning the decal process. I use paint pro but I can adapt. It doesnt have all the bells and whistles but I think it's a good app and it fit my budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 My final post this weekend. I need a bit of practice but looks like PSP will work fine for decaling. Jims tut made it easy other than the process of saving the decal image, it works differently than photoshop but once I get used to the post flattening process of pulling out the overlapping splines my decaling should improve. Thanks for the links Frank, now I can relax and let the swelling in my brain go down. Jim, thanks for making a video tutorial available for us newbies. This was a test render using a decal without flattening. It's a forward view so the scewing on the sides is not visible but I see now why the need for flattening the mesh. Thanks guy's!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iham Wrong Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Hey Scott. Have you added any bones to the model to see how the jaw geometry moves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 I have to work on bones a little more to understand the constraints and things like IK. But no not yet Frank. I have looked at alot of meshes lately and I believe I am using too many 5 point patches and was reading and discovered that 3cp's intersecting causes creases. I did intersect 3 in a couple of places and plan to fix that. I see many meshes where the first 3 to 4 splines of the lower eyelids closest to the nose appear to run down the cheek and sides of the nose and turn back up to form the nostril. I Have trouble with bringing the Eyes, lips,and nose together without chasing 5 point patches across the jaws(cheeks, which I believe will distort). Most likely I can save much more of this mesh than the last... But I'm close. I am starting to develop techniques for my decaling and am gonna try some bumps. To get the "now easy" stuff down so that when I get the mesh right I can paint the details in and make them look good. If there is something you see that I should pay attention to, "by all means" point me in the right direction. I dont want to copy anyones mesh but if I can integrate some proven tecniques, it will speed up my learning process. if you want I can set it up with bones if you forgive my most likely improper placement, and do a series of screen captures , put them together as a 2d GIF animation and email it to you to to evaluate any probs and possible solutions if it will help. I want to become a master myself someday! PS:I looked at your site tonight and once again was impressed, some of the images were hard to discern between 3d and photo. My mesh for my teeth is an almost identical mesh to yours from the gumline down, lets me know I'm at least partially on the right track Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 Here are the eyes for my head. I'm still working on the resplining job, studying meshes and seeing with a little more understanding of the need to space them out. I had trouble rendering the lighter version as you see at the top of the image. They rendered with the original head just fine and I tried adjusting the surface settings but got the same results with many more renders than I have shown in V9.5, 10, 10.5. I finally deleted the whole thing, relathed the sphere, applied the decal and got a good render. the final eye is my best one yet and was assembled a bit differently. (for all the other new users) The lighter one has the decal applied to the sphere as it comes right off the lathing tool(broadside). On the final eye I rotated the sphere on "I believe" the X axis so as to look straight through the two center holes where the splines all come together selected the rear group, scaled it up and tucked it into the inside of the eye. I can find my way around while I am modeling but the axis are not second nature to me yet so dont trust me on it) This eliminated the bright spot in the pupil. Tucking the back in gave me an idea which I will see if I can make work tonight. I'm sure some one has already done it but I haven't seen it done and I think it will give the eye a more realistic appeal. I.m still evolving the color blurring in the center and working on a way to make the viens look better and hopefully will have applied them (possibly in the new head mesh) for my next post. Any tips will be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JavierP Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Your work is coming along nicely. It looks as if you activated the glow property on your previous eye model. That might be why you weren't getting the results you wanted. I'm sure you'll get the hang of it soon. You've already progressed a lot already. Javier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 15, 2004 Author Share Posted February 15, 2004 Thanks Javier. I'm still working on the new mesh. I'm posting a pic of my nostril to cheek transitions. the arrow points out the best config I have come up with. I'm still working out thinning in the nose. I have taken a look at alot of picture tutorials, but have not seen the proper way to transition without bias problems.(creases) I have looked at alot of meshes here but the area in question is not usually displayed in detail. Also the lips, I would like to know if they are properly configured for future animation. Anybody got diagrams or screens like mine they can post? I would like to see how other do it and develope my technique. My current config doesnt render bad but I would like to trim the splinage down and keep the smooth stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 26, 2004 Author Share Posted February 26, 2004 Here is the evolution of my splining directly resulting from this forum. The 3rd one is my best and still maybe a bit thick. But I'm still tweaking it. I don't want to think about the ears but they're not far off. Then I should be ready to decal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 26, 2004 Author Share Posted February 26, 2004 I think I will turn this into a hat for the head. This is a good way to learn what splines will do. I have been working on several models since I will need props after I earn a few more blue squares.Decaling is actually alot of fun but will take some time to master. I added some bump maps to the skull and the horns I applied as color maps and did not know how to tell AM what to do. Frank Hulsey was a big help there. Anyway after I bent the horns I found out how to "apply as" but have no idea of how to apply a new decal with all the twists etc. I learned alot in the process of building it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted February 26, 2004 Admin Share Posted February 26, 2004 I don't know how I missed this thread! Excellent work! and a belated welcome to A:M. Your teeth remind me of my last trip to the dentist so that must mean they are looking good! Look for to seeing more of your work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nixie Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 thats a nicely modaled skull! i like the details in the upper jaw -, just after the teeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaryin Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Man that is some excellent head modeling. I think the ear area could be worked a little better to avoid creases, but other than that this is great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 26, 2004 Author Share Posted February 26, 2004 Chris,I started the skull with only the horn just to see if I could get the shape I was looking for, and then to practice some decaling. I have 3 versions of the horns all from the same lathed cone. the ones on the skull were the best yet. Changing the decals to bumps I lose the color but the bump effect works ok. The skull I know is not identical to a real ram skull as I wanted it to have a less than friendly appeal. There is a little bit of my dragon there. I have made some better bumps for it but first I need to chop it back in half and redo the horn with bump as well as color maps. I kept the color on the horns as I just like the way it looks. Jeff I will post a good close up of the #3 head if that is the one you are talking about and maybe you can give me some suggestions to work on. I am not sure how to do the ears and once they are there I may see a better way to bring the cheeks to the ears. The thing about heads is getting the splines to "flow" smoothely and still look the way you want. #1 has some of my features. #2 well, I dont know how she came off of my "photoscope" but she can be the mate to#3 Who takes about 10 years and a few pounds off of me but I am (mostly) happy with it so far(still tweaking). Rodney, I read the digest almost every time it comes in and as busy as you are with the technical help I can see missing many threads. Here is another skull render with the mesh partially used as a bumpmap (forgot to remove the reference layer but a good demo of bump effects the right horn has an attempt at adding the bump to the horn after rotating for the shape. I will redo it on the cone and believe that the decals will match better by applying before breaking out the "pipe bender"). I have much practice to do. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 27, 2004 Author Share Posted February 27, 2004 Here are the side and front views. In the side view I have already(since screen shots) modified the splines running from the ear holes to the top and back of the skull to be straight rather than goin all directions but the splines have not been added to or subtracted from. Heading towards the earholes it appears to be pretty confusing(I must fix that). I want to make smooth meshes eventually. I am not sure if I should use the holes and extrude out or try to lathe and cut and then attach the ear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 29, 2004 Author Share Posted February 29, 2004 I couldn't resist an attempt at decaling it. I was elated with my results but have some areas to work on. Now for those ears! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted February 29, 2004 Admin Share Posted February 29, 2004 Pretty impressive stuff! Looks better than ever. I'd post more but looks like you have it goin' on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 This is your first model? I QUIT!!! Just kidding, really great work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottj3d Posted February 29, 2004 Author Share Posted February 29, 2004 Practice makes...more practice. I like getting feedback from peers and will take any advice I can get. This forum has helped immensely in using the tools AM has provided. And Zack if you think about it I have "reHASHED" my mesh 3 times so it's technically my 3rd model or 4th if you count the skull. Don't "quit "( I know you're kidding) the curve is gonna get real steep when I start animating and I'll need input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iham Wrong Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Amazing what a great decal can do. I wish I had the patients to make the realistic looking ones like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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