itsjustme

The plus 1 no division project works I was afraid of that...the only difference in that one is that I took any division out of the Expression equations. I'll make up a couple more tests tonight and post them later.

The z scale of the nostril y translation calc's are =100 and the nostrils don't move using the null (s) Okay, I've got a couple of theories...here are a couple more test Projects. Do either of these work like they are supposed to? Sneer_test_04_27_2008b_three_Projects.zip

None of them work So, the same problem where the nostrils are at their upper limits in all of them? Or do the nostrils not move?

Okay, here are three different Projects. I took the previous Project and added a different part of the Expression in each one. Which one (or more) of these don't work in 15b? Sneer_test_04_27_2008a_three_Projects.zip

Really?! Hmmm, so something in that equation appears to be the problem. I'll post a couple more test Projects a little later tonight that adds back in each section of the equation so that we can isolate which one is the culprit. Thanks, Nancy!

In 15b those values are set to 100 Okay, then that sends us to another Expression entirely. In the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup/face_setup_Expressions_DO_NOT_TOUCH" Pose, there is an Expression on the "nostril_left_Y_translation_calc" bone. Here's the Expression: What it says is: We don't need some of that Expression to test this, so, I've edited it down to this: Which now says: The updated test Project is attached...see if it does the same thing...we're narrowing it down. ---------------------- EDIT ---------------------- I forgot that I hid some of the "calc" bones, but you can still select them in the Action...sorry about that. Sneer_test_04_27_2008_Project.zip

Thanks, Nancy. I took all of the hiding Poses out of the example, so you should be able to just unhide them in the PWS for them to show up in the Action if they are hidden. Select a "calc" bone, look in its' properties in the Action and see if the scaling on the 'Z' axis matches the list. Then hit "J" to hide that bone so you can select the next "calc" bone to check that bones' 'Z' scaling, and so on. Yes, I do. There's more to it than that, Nancy. I can't post a full answer to that in a post to the forum, unfortunately. Nothing is ever "black and white" and everyone's situation is different. To assume why I do things without asking me directly, and then calling me out in an open forum where my response might be deleted will not get an answer...or at least an answer that will quickly disappear. You can always PM or e-mail me if you want to discuss it. No they don't, and I'm not asking them to do that. I'm trying to help those that do have the current version even though I don't own it. I don't have to do that, but I will always help where I am able. Once we isolate it further, we'll be able to put together an even simpler test model for the Hash programmers to look at...we just need more information.

If the Sneer Poses are at 0% and the "calc bones" are at the correct 'Z' scale, then the way that the Expression is being handled is where the problem is. The "calc" bones in the test Project should be: The Expression that drives the Sneer Pose for the left side in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup/face_setup_Expressions_DO_NOT_TOUCH" Pose on the "nostril_base_left_geom" (the same thing is also on the "nostril_base_right_geom" bone) is: Which translates to: So, if someone checks whether the Sneer Poses are at "0" and that the "calc" bones are at the right scale on the 'Z' axis, it can be narrowed down so the Hash programmers can check how that Expression is being handled.

I understand, Nancy. The reason it got so complicated was to ease installation. Doing the setup the way I did it means that the end user wouldn't have to open and edit Poses, they could set things up using Pose sliders. It used to be a much simpler system, but, people complained that it was too hard to set up. So, whether it is kept simple or made complicated, you are never going to please everybody. -------------------------- EDIT -------------------------- The underlying problem with v15b may pop up somewhere else, you never know. I made it easier to track down, but I can't troubleshoot it using the versions I have...I don't mind helping though.

That works in our favor, Nancy! It means to me that the problem is probably in the Expression...at least that's where I'm leaning. The Expression that I think is having the problem is in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup/face_setup_Expressions_DO_NOT_TOUCH" Pose. On the "nostril_base_left_geom" (the same thing is also on the "nostril_base_right_geom" bone), the following Expression is what I think needs to be checked: This could also mean that the "calc" bones could be not scaling correctly. The following bones should be at 100% on their 'Z' scaling at "0" on the Timeline in the test Project: nostrils_move_with_lip_corners_scaler nostrils_move_with_upper_lip_2s_scaler nostrils_move_with_upper_lip_1s_scaler auto_controllers_base The following values should be on the other scaling bones' 'Z' scaling: nostril_Y_translation_limit_scaler: .45 right_sneer_calc: 0 left_sneer_calc: 0 nostril_left_Y_translation_calc: 0 nostril_right_Y_translation_calc: 0 Hope that helps.

That works in our favor, Nancy! It means to me that the problem is probably in the Expression...at least that's where I'm leaning. The Expression that I think is having the problem is in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup/face_setup_Expressions_DO_NOT_TOUCH" Pose. On the "nostril_base_left_geom" (the same thing is also on the "nostril_base_right_geom" bone), the following Expression is what I think needs to be checked:

Alright, if you have v15b, here's a test file you can use to hopefully eliminate some possibilities. The Zip has a v13t Project file that has just enough of Sam to check the Sneer Poses. I stripped out everything that wasn't necessary, so maybe it will help pinpoint the problems. In the Project, there is an Action that should raise both nostrils to their upper limits at about frame 20, lower both nostrils back to their origins at frame 40, raise the left nostril to its' upper limit at frame 49 and raise the right nostril to its' upper limit at frame 59. See if this cut-down version of the Sneer setup gives you the same problems as the full rig gave you with the Sneer controls. First, scrub through the Action...if that works, manually move the Sneer controls and see if that works as well. I'm hoping it has the same problems so that we can isolate it, but my bet is that it won't be that easy to track down. Sneer_test_04_26_2008_Project.zip

LOL! Nice, Rusty.

Very cool, Marcos!

I'm with Mark, I think it's an issue with v15b...I checked v13t and v14c and didn't have a problem.

I updated the "FACE_Interface_Setup" instruction PDF...there was a typo (an extra bracket was in the HTML) and I added the Preston Blair Poses to the end. I use those Poses as a double-check for the FACE setup. It wasn't enough in my mind to re-package everything, so I'm just posting the updated PDF for now. If there is another rig update, I'll include it in that release. ------------------- EDIT ------------------- The next rig update includes this PDF, so this file was deleted. The next update ishere.

I know the Sneer Poses work in Squetchy Sam...I don't know why they aren't working for you, Holmes. Unhide the face geometry bones using the "Show_and_Hide_Rig_Components/hide_face_setup_bones/hide_face_geom_bones" and then use the sneer nulls...that should make the cheek, nostril and nostril base bones move. If they don't, check to make sure you have all of the nose setup Poses set...they are in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup/nose_setup" folder. The Pose that would be the culprit is the "nostril_Y_translation_limit" if that is the problem, I'm thinking. The only other possibility off the top of my head would be that the Expression got messed up...that is in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup/face_setup_Expressions_DO_NOT_TOUCH" Pose. If all else fails, changing that out might fix it. Although, since you are having problems with Sam as well, I'm thinking you probably just need to restart A:M. If none of that helps, I'll try again.

They should be on, Holmes. Make sure the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/head_on/off_constraints/tongue_constraints" Pose is "on" in the model Properties. If that is on, then check that the constraints have enforcements applied in that Pose. If that Pose is messed up, delete the Relationship in that Pose and drag that Pose from Squetchy Sam into your character. If none of that works, let me know. Yes, the cheek "geom" bones will move. Unhide the cheek bones by using the "Show_and_Hide_Rig_Components/hide_face_setup_bones/hide_face_geom_bones" Pose and then mess with the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup/cheek_movement_for_building_squints" Poses to see if the bones move. If the cheek bones aren't moving, check the constraints in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/head_on/off_constraints/cheek_constraints" Pose to make sure there are enforcements applied to the constraints...also check to make sure that Pose is turned "on". Hope that helps...if it doesn't, I'll try again.

I haven't set up a character with a beak, but I know that Shaun Freeman used a similar setup for a character that he was working on for his short "Cuckoo", which makes me sure it can be done with this rig. Unfortunately, he doesn't have that on his site any more, so I can't show you an example. You could also strip out the parts of the bones setup that you don't need and go with a muscle based setup for the FACE controls. If you decide to go with a muscle system, Mark or I could tell you what to get rid of.

The origin of the thumbs should start inside the hand...which would also move the origins of the other carpals closer to the base of the hand. The arms seem right and the legs and feet look good. Since you haven't started on the spine, I won't comment on that. Hope that helps, Marcos.

I posted an update to the rig here, it includes the instructions for setting up the FACE controls with the bones rig. I had a lot of other things going on, so it took me longer than it should have. We're trying to make the rig as easy to set up as we can. Hopefully, the more tutorials we can get out, the less mysterious it will seem. There are plenty of things in the Squetch Rig that were suggested by animators...there's always a better mouse trap.

This update fixes a problem with the four-fingered Hand Gizmo's middle carpal (also the Foot Gizmo), the FACE Poses now have Squetchy Sam's Poses without muscle movement and there's a PDF that explains how to set up the FACE Poses. Thanks to Mark Skodacek, Marcos Rezende and Holmes Bryant for these updates. If anyone finds a problem, let us know and we'll fix it as fast as we can. ------------------ EDIT ------------------ These files were deleted, the next update is here.

The "NarrowOO" Pose uses the "RightNarrowOO" and "LeftNarrowOO" Poses, so setting up those two Poses sets up the "NarrowOO". Both the "RightNarrowOO" and "LeftNarrowOO" will require adjusting Poses in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/mouth_ud_individual" and "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/mouth_lr_individual" folders, the lip "curl" Poses in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips" folder and some muscle movement. I'm almost done with the PDF file that outlines setting up the FACE controls. I'm hoping to get it posted tonight. Sorry for the delay, Holmes.

The index finger is translated when the "right_finger_INSTALL" is put in place (the bone that should have its' origin at the base of the index finger and points toward the back of the hand), so you shouldn't need to translate it. However, it looks like something is going wrong with your installation rig...the "right_finger_INSTALL" and "right_carpal_INSTALL" bones are out of place. The "right_carpal_INSTALL" should have its' origin at the base of the thumb and the "right_finger_INSTALL" should have its' origin at the base of the "right_index_INSTALL". Is that the result of replacing the "Installation_Poses/installation_constraints_folder (do_not_touch)/hand_installation_constraints (DO_NOT_TOUCH)" Pose? Is that Pose turned "on" in the Properties of the model? Hmmm, replacing that Pose worked without a problem on my end.

This one I'm not positive about, so I'll just show an image of a possible setup and explain what I was thinking. First, I moved the spine farther back to get a more realistic bend of the torso. Next, the mid-section looked like it should be lower (going by how the spline loops of the torso are modeled). That gives him a pretty long chest bone, but, the chest has to start below the arm. I moved the head lower (below the chin more) and back a little so that the head will tuck into the chin more when rotating forward.