Weird undo for multiple selected bones

[nemyax]

New user here.

When I select multiple bones in choreography and rotate them, and then try to undo the rotation, A:M's behaviour is very strange. It takes lots of steps to revert to the original state, like this: little nudge, nothing, nothing, little nudge, nothing, nothing, little nudge, etc. The program may also crash in the process. Can anyone reproduce this? Is this a known issue?

Generally, A:M (32-bit) is very unstable on my system.

[robcat2075]

New user here.

When I select multiple bones in choreography and rotate them, and then try to undo the rotation, A:M's behaviour is very strange. It takes lots of steps to revert to the original state, like this: little nudge, nothing, nothing, little nudge, nothing, nothing, little nudge, etc. The program may also crash in the process. Can anyone reproduce this? Is this a known issue?

 

I have noticed that before. It's fairly rare that I move any bones simultaneously, except on a long chain of bones like a monkey tail.

 

That happens because (I think) one user interaction may be more steps internally than we perceive.

 

I just did a quick test and it appears that the undo buffer records rotates as a succession of small units (one degree?) added together

 

In some situations, deleting the keyframes your initial move made might get you "undone" faster than "undo" will.

 

Generally, A:M (32-bit) is very unstable on my system.

 

Tell us what's happening.

[John Bigboote]

Hmm. what version of A:M? Mac or PC? If you are animating bones in the chor and you move them and want to undo, another way to undo would be to delete the generated keyframes... if you are at frame zero and have not started animating yet then you could delete the bones animation channel...

[nemyax]

Tell us what's happening.

I'm getting OpenGL issues, with the 3D views locking up and the rest of the program running, and sometimes a crash follows. I'll update the driver to see if there's any difference.

 

Hmm. what version of A:M? Mac or PC?

Sorry I didn't mention that. I'm on 18f, 32-bit Windows XP SP3 on a 32-bit machine.

 

another way to undo would be to delete the generated keyframes

Meh... One really shouldn't have to go to such lengths for an undo =/

[robcat2075]

Yes, update your video driver, restart and see what happens.

 

You may also try downloading and installing v17 and see how that does. You can have several versions of A:M installed with the same license. Copy the master0.lic file from your v18 folder to your v17 folder.

 

There was a time about 10 years ago where if you even looked at the corner of the keyboard where CTRL-Z is it would crash. Maybe that's why I got away from using undo much except for the most trivial things.

 

 

What are you doing that needs to have multiple bones moved at once?

[nemyax]

Yes, update your video driver, restart and see what happens.

Nothing's changed =(

The video card is a GeForce 650 by the way.

One reproducible issue is that the viewport locks up in shaded (9) mode and goes back to normal when the mode is switched. This happens with both the "OpenGL" and "OpenGL 3" driver active.

 

You may also try downloading and installing v17 and see how that does.

Thanks, I'll try that.

 

What are you doing that needs to have multiple bones moved at once?

I tend to do that with FK spines when posing. Blender has never given me trouble with undos

[robcat2075]

What are you doing that needs to have multiple bones moved at once?

I tend to do that with FK spines when posing. Blender has never given me trouble with undos

 

Another reason I don't frequently do that with chains of bones is that rotating them together forces them all to have identical angles of rotation. It's exceedingly rare that I will want that so... i just do them one at a time... plunk, plunk, plunk... and get what I really wanted.

[robcat2075]

nemyax, another thing to try...

 

In v18... In Tools>Options>Global try switching "Real-time driver" to whatever it's not set on now and restart.

[nemyax]

"Real-time driver"

I've tried that (mentioned above). Interestingly, the lockup occurs only with a stock character loaded into the scene. In an empty scene, the viewport works. I haven't tested with a custom character, since this is my first day with the software; and it really seems to mind me using it =)

However, there are still apparent Z-sorting issues: http://pix.academ.org/img/2014/06/27/116cb...4698d52d2e1.png (shaded + wireframe mode for clarity, it's just as weird in pure shaded).

[Rodney]

Are you wanting to look through the camera?

The image you posted doesn't show anything out of the ordinary other than that you are in a birds eye (i.e. user defined) view.

[robcat2075]

Turn off Mirror mode.

 

I'm sure that's not the problem but you just never want that on unless you WANT it on.

 

 

Give v17 a try.

[Rodney]

Robert may be on to something there with Mirror Bones.

Definitely turn that off.

 

Since you are just now starting out with A:M I'll recommend working through the Manual (TaoA:M).

Also: If you ever get A:M's interface into a configuration it shouldn't be in you can select Reset from the Help menu.

After reset reset A:M.

 

Also, I'm not sure where you are getting the stock character from but you might save that to another place and reopen it from there.

[robcat2075]

However, there are still apparent Z-sorting issues: http://pix.academ.org/img/2014/06/27/116cb...4698d52d2e1.png (shaded + wireframe mode for clarity, it's just as weird in pure shaded).

 

That is definitely a bug! That is new, I get it in v18f but not in v17. I had not noticed it before.

 

I will write that one up and report it to Steffen.

[Rodney]

Can you clarify what we are seeing here?

(or if preferable I just can read about it in A:M Reports)

[robcat2075]

If you point a camera or a kleig light at the ground plane and look at that from another angle , you should be able to see the portion of their field-of-view cone that is above the ground.

 

Instead it's all being obscured by the ground plane.

 

I just tried some earlier versions. The problem first appears in v18c

[John Bigboote]

Here will be an 'unpopular' answer- soon to be deleted, Nemyax. Find A:M version 17.0G(or whatever the last V17 was...) and just use that. INCREDIBLY stable. I have both 17 and 18 on my system tray, I have had to give up on V18 altogether for many the same reasons(video card Open GL crashing.)

[Rodney]

Here will be an 'unpopular' answer- soon to be deleted

 

Um... why exactly would that be unpopular or deleted Matt?

Rhetorical question.

 

Press on. Press on.

[robcat2075]

Here will be an 'unpopular' answer- soon to be deleted, Nemyax. Find A:M version 17.0G(or whatever the last V17 was...) and just use that. INCREDIBLY stable. I have both 17 and 18 on my system tray, I have had to give up on V18 altogether for many the same reasons(video card Open GL crashing.)

 

I did suggest v17 earlier and I haven't been deleted.

 

Now we have three people with a video problem in v18. Before it was just ToreB as ar as I knew. Matt and nemyax, do you have NVidia video cards?

 

Something has changed since v18c. We'll need to get Steffen to look at that when he gets out of the ICU.

[NancyGormezano]

Since Nemyax is a new user - perhaps he needs the link to latest version 17 - here's the ftp link to latest and older versions of 17 for both 32 and 64 bit versions.

 

ftp://ftp.hash.com/pub/updates/windows/v17/

 

 

Something has changed since v18c. We'll need to get Steffen to look at that when he gets out of the ICU.

 

what! ICU???? please get well Steffen as soon as possible. So sorry to hear this.

[robcat2075]

I was exaggerating a bit. I hope.

 

He has some sort of health complication of which I don't know the exact details.

[nemyax]

Five minutes into version 17, everything's working fine so far. Thanks for your support!

[John Bigboote]

Coolio... I was kidding about 'deleted', I was ONCE removed from the 'A:M List' once- but apologized to Martin slavishly and was allowed back with open arms. I thought I looked for that thread where Tore, myself and a handful of others were comparing V18 problems and thought it had been removed- that's all. I hope Steffen is on the road to recovery, that's bad news!

[Fuchur]

Coolio... I was kidding about 'deleted', I was ONCE removed from the 'A:M List' once- but apologized to Martin slavishly and was allowed back with open arms. I thought I looked for that thread where Tore, myself and a handful of others were comparing V18 problems and thought it had been removed- that's all. I hope Steffen is on the road to recovery, that's bad news!

 

Give it a little time, but he is back home again now .

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[robcat2075]

Give it a little time, but he is back home again now .

 

Fabulous!

[Rodney]

Give it a little time, but he is back home again now

 

Glad to hear it!

Hope you are back to 100% soon Steffen.

[itsjustme]

Hope you have a speedy recovery, Steffen!

[John Bigboote]

Get well soon, Yoda. V17 is a MASTERPIECE!

 

BTW- Thank-You, Fucher(Gerald) for your updates on our guy. Do you guys live close by?

[John Bigboote]

BTW--- I still stand by my 'delete the keyframes' approach. I've been conditioned by YEARS of A:M usage... there is no CNTRL-Z... there is only CNTRL-S, CNTRL-Z...!