Bu-ray Starwars collection

[jason1025]

Just got it.

 

I was disappointed to see that in Ep 1 Lucas removed the mupet Yoda and replaced him with current cg technology. This makes Yoda in Ep 1 look more advanced than Yoda in Ep 2. The main difference I notice is Ep 1Yoda has SSS, Ep 2 no SSS, Ep 3 SSS again.

 

He also tinkered with some other minor cg scenes.

 

Watching these episodes 1-3 again are so painful. Its easier if I turn the volume down or change the language track so I don't hear the horrible dialog.

[robcat2075]

The world's most expensive fan-films, they are.

[largento]

I'm enjoying the extras and haven't watched the films yet. I've seen them so many times, that honestly, the changes are the only things that are prompting me to watch them again.

 

I honestly don't get the "outrage" over the changes that Lucas makes to these movies.

 

I've long been scratching my head over the whole "Han Shoots First" outcry. I was 9 when Star Wars was released and all of my friends talked about the movie endlessly for the next few years. (When we were able to start talking endlessly about The Empire Strikes Back.) :-)

 

We didn't have the whole trilogy to analyze. We just had the one movie. And in all of those discussions, I never once remember us saying how much we loved it that Han Solo shot Greedo first. :-)

 

I know there are many people who think these movies were supposed to be made for grown-ups, but they were always designed for kids. Han Solo was supposed to die in Return of the Jedi. When that was changed, Lucas realized that he now had this "message" in his kids movie series where a hero kills a person in cold blood. These are simplistic morality stories about good vs. evil. Good is supposed to be rewarded and evil punished.

 

Now, in a time where anti-heroes are more accepted than actual heroes, there's anger that Solo was redeemed.

 

I gather the latest "outrage" is that they've given an audio reference to Darth Vader's "Nooo!" from Revenge of the Sith in Darth Vader's turn to good in Return of the Jedi. Makes perfect sense, storywise. It's no different than reprising a musical theme to remind you of a previous event.

 

Lucas isn't thinking about fan service or what's cool. He's thinking of the story in the totality and its effect on its target audience: the kids.

 

Sure, nowadays every joe on the planet thinks he could make a better Star Wars movie, but nobody ever did it before.

 

Robert, the Star Wars movies are not fan films. But just about every genre movie made after Star Wars is.

[jason1025]

I should not have purchased these. My ex said within a short amount of time next year or so the 3D versions will be released in theaters and Blu-ray.

 

4- or 5 years ago when we were dating she told me her company In3 had finished about 15 minutes of episode 4. They said Lucas loved it.

[jason1025]

If I had to some up why Ep 1-3 are so bad after watching them once again now. Lucus constantly undercuts his writing. He will establish a rule or moral in one set of dialog between a few characters than in a scene a few moments later he will completely confuse you by contradicting those rules or morals he established earlier.

 

It makes you feel as if all the dialog is complete nonsense.

 

Another thing in the same vein as my previous comment is that the characters are not true to themselves.

 

So far after watching these movies the only thing I like are some small things. Sam Jacksons acting is somehow able to pull off the bad written word. I like how some droids like General Greviouse wear capes and soft cloth. its interesting because they don't need to keep warm?

Nataly Portman is extremely easy on the eye's. The music and sound effects are well done.

 

 

Thats about it.

[robcat2075]

Episodes 4, 5 6 are movies. 1, 2 and 3 are expensive fan films made by the number one fan, George Lucas.

[Gerry]

When Joseph Campbell passed away Lucas completely lost his way, that's why the later movies are crap.

[largento]

We all have our own opinions, of course. :-)

 

The creator cannot be a fan of his creation, no more than a director can be an audience for his own movie, or an author a reader of his own book.

 

Stated in simple terms: It is impossible for you to tickle yourself. :-)

[jason1025]

We all have our own opinions, of course. :-)

 

The creator cannot be a fan of his creation, no more than a director can be an audience for his own movie, or an author a reader of his own book.

 

Stated in simple terms: It is impossible for you to tickle yourself. :-)

 

 

 

I don't think any of that is a true statement. Working in Hollywood for the last 13 years I would say the opposite is true.

 

If you try to solve a magic trick by thinking, how did they do it you may never find the answer. But if you try to figure out how would you do it, now you have a chance.

 

Most directors I know make their movies for themselves and are often angry or heart broken when the business end makes them change things.

[jason1025]

LOL

 

Watching Episode 4

 

He changed it again with han solo.

 

Now they both fire at the same time lol.

[largento]

We all have our own opinions, of course. :-)

 

The creator cannot be a fan of his creation, no more than a director can be an audience for his own movie, or an author a reader of his own book.

 

Stated in simple terms: It is impossible for you to tickle yourself. :-)

 

 

 

I don't think any of that is a true statement. Working in Hollywood for the last 13 years I would say the opposite is true.

 

So you are saying that people don't have opinions, I can sit down and read my one of my own books and wonder what's going to happen on the next page and tickle my toes?

 

I can tell you that the opposite is most certainly not true, even accounting for geography. :-)

[Roger]

There are bigger problems in the world than Lucas' changing some scenes around. But I understand the feeling that many people have about the changes. I felt the scene where Vader tosses the emperor to his death was more powerful without any dialog.

 

I thought the original trilogy was fine as it stood. I want to get a laserdisc copy of the original trilogy and do a transfer to DVD (did they even make the original trilogy available on DVD, or is it only the special edition? Bluray would be nice, but I doubt there will be an HD transfer of the original cut)

 

Maybe they are just kids movies. Sometimes when I watch them, I think "am I enjoying this viewed through the lens of my childhood, or is it more than that?" Exceedingly cute Ewoks and their "jub-jubbing" aside, episodes 4-5-6 stand on their own as a powerful story of redemption. I think that is a universal theme that people of any age can identify with.

 

Oddly enough, I'm watching Metropolis right now. I wonder how George would feel about someone re-doing Metropolis with all digital effects (not a remake, but cuting digital effects into the old film).

[Rodney]

Taking George Lucas to task for changing/refining/destroying his own story is an odd thing.

I find it especially odd when I hear it from creative types.

 

While I might have a preference from one particular perspective it seems crystal clear to me that Star Wars is George Lucas's world to change.

Would anyone else who created such stories allow someone else to dictate what they could or could not change? Would they not reserve the right to change it themselves?

 

This has an odd echo that rings down through history where authors have been known to write characters out of stories or abandon stories altogether because of the odd lives, interpretations, obsessions and expectations fans tended to create. Frank L. Baum for instance reportedly wanted to move on from the Oz books to other things but the fans weren't about to let him. Almost all of the writers of serialized fiction would read the letters from fans and then steer their stories in some other direction. If they killed someone off and the fans clamoured loudly enough the author might devise a way to resurrect them. Retelling of stories with little concern for any strict continuity was more the rule than the exception.

 

George may be more in tune with all of this than the creators of bygone days than we give him credit for. He's a big fan of the early serials where in every episode heroes such as Flash Gordon magically escape from the last episodes fatal cliffhanger... He gets people to talk about his films, generates new interest and propagates new theories concerning how his universe works over and over again and again.

 

It's his story...and he is entertaining himself.

[Roger]

I know there are many people who think these movies were supposed to be made for grown-ups, but they were always designed for kids. Han Solo was supposed to die in Return of the Jedi. When that was changed, Lucas realized that he now had this "message" in his kids movie series where a hero kills a person in cold blood. These are simplistic morality stories about good vs. evil. Good is supposed to be rewarded and evil punished.

 

Now, in a time where anti-heroes are more accepted than actual heroes, there's anger that Solo was redeemed.

 

I always thought it made more sense for Han to shoot first. He was a smuggler with a gun being pointed at him, not a naive farm boy like Luke. Shooting first establishes his character as a rogue.

[Roger]

Taking George Lucas to task for changing/refining/destroying his own story is an odd thing.

I find it especially odd when I hear it from creative types.

 

While I might have a preference the one particular perspective it seems crystal clear to me that Star Wars is George Lucas's world to change.

Would anyone else who created such stories allow someone else to dictate what they could or could not change? Would they not reserve the right to change it themselves?

 

This is the way I look at it:

 

A character's look changing over time ( think Steamboat Willie era Mickey to how he currently appears, or Bugs Bunny or Popeye) is one thing.

 

Retconning things into an existing story or changing it completely is something else.

I guess utlimately it is his to do with as he pleases.

[Roger]

Ok, so apparently this is what he thought in 1988:

 

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2011/09/1988_g..._george_luc.php

 

I tend to agree with that view.

 

His universe he has created is by all means his to play in. And it has definitely brought a great deal of happiness and joy to many people.

Maybe he feels awkward or embarrassed by his early work, we're our own worst critics and flaws that no one else would notice are amplified in our minds. I still stand by the OT being a damn fine work in its own right, and you don't mess with what is working.

 

All that said, there would probably be much less grumbling if the OT was available in bluray. While I can hope that this will someday be the case, I am not going to waste time worrying about it.

[Roger]

I stumbled across this and thought it was interesting:

 

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/savingstarwars.html

 

And now I am going to stop flogging this horse.

[Gerry]

I stumbled across this and thought it was interesting:

 

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/savingstarwars.html

 

And now I am going to stop flogging this horse.

Terrific article with lots of film technology explained, Roger. Thanks for linking. I would encourage everyone to read it simply for the technical stuff. My favorite bit (so far) is that Kodak developed a film stock called "quick fade", and people were shocked that it degraded so fast. Yikes, is all I can say.

[jason1025]

We all have our own opinions, of course. :-)

 

The creator cannot be a fan of his creation, no more than a director can be an audience for his own movie, or an author a reader of his own book.

 

Stated in simple terms: It is impossible for you to tickle yourself. :-)

 

 

 

I don't think any of that is a true statement. Working in Hollywood for the last 13 years I would say the opposite is true.

 

So you are saying that people don't have opinions, I can sit down and read my one of my own books and wonder what's going to happen on the next page and tickle my toes?

 

I can tell you that the opposite is most certainly not true, even accounting for geography. :-)

 

 

woops the opinion part is true lol.

[jason1025]

There are bigger problems in the world than Lucas' changing some scenes around. But I understand the feeling that many people have about the changes. I felt the scene where Vader tosses the emperor to his death was more powerful without any dialog.

 

I thought the original trilogy was fine as it stood. I want to get a laserdisc copy of the original trilogy and do a transfer to DVD (did they even make the original trilogy available on DVD, or is it only the special edition? Bluray would be nice, but I doubt there will be an HD transfer of the original cut)

 

Maybe they are just kids movies. Sometimes when I watch them, I think "am I enjoying this viewed through the lens of my childhood, or is it more than that?" Exceedingly cute Ewoks and their "jub-jubbing" aside, episodes 4-5-6 stand on their own as a powerful story of redemption. I think that is a universal theme that people of any age can identify with.

 

Oddly enough, I'm watching Metropolis right now. I wonder how George would feel about someone re-doing Metropolis with all digital effects (not a remake, but cuting digital effects into the old film).

 

 

I think they sell the original untouched version on DVD now. And I believe they will release it on blu-ray soon.

[Roger]

If you click on the articles or links section, there is even a rare picture of a beardless George in his early 40s. He's also rocking the 80s skinny tie

[Roger]

I think they sell the original untouched version on DVD now. And I believe they will release it on blu-ray soon.

 

Yes, I think I remember seeing it somewhere but haven't been able to find it for sale lately. I am not sure if this is the anamorphic widescreen version or just a 4:3 aspect ratio with pan and scan. If it is the latter, I am not sure I want it. I could transfer my original VHS tapes to .mpg files or something.

 

Unless he is planning on releasing the OT on bluray, the only way to get a high quality version of the film in the widescreen format would be to get the LD box set and do a transfer to a digital format.

[Roger]

I stumbled across this and thought it was interesting:

 

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/savingstarwars.html

 

And now I am going to stop flogging this horse.

Terrific article with lots of film technology explained, Roger. Thanks for linking. I would encourage everyone to read it simply for the technical stuff. My favorite bit (so far) is that Kodak developed a film stock called "quick fade", and people were shocked that it degraded so fast. Yikes, is all I can say.

 

I really enjoyed this and thought everyone else would too. There is alot of interesting stuff on that site if you follow the other links. Wired magazine I believe also did a story on the restoration process around the time of the 20th anniversary.

[Rodney]

Thanks for the link to that site. Very interesting information on film restoration.

 

 

 

Imagine if George Lucas just scrapped everything and went back to the original scripts he had tried to sell before making the movie. Then everyone would really have something to debate about.

 

Lucas's original scripts reveal plot points used in Part I, II and III and give insight into George Lucas's tendency toward 're-versioning':

http://starwarz.com/starkiller/2010/05/sum...-the-star-wars/

 

While I agree the original film should be maintained for it's historical value, I see no need to accept the first movie as cannon.

My first encounter with Star Wars was the paperback book and by the time I finally got a chance to see the film it had to compete with my imagination.

[robcat2075]

slightly apropos...

 

Did you know that these films are money-losers?

 

 

... The actor who played Darth Vader still has not received residuals from the 1983 film "Return of the Jedi" because the movie, which ranks 15th in U.S. box office history, still has no technical profits to distribute. ...

[jason1025]

Now im confused

[robcat2075]

Well, at least he got paid for the hours he worked at the time!

 

Animators may not get even that. Over at 11Secondclub moderator Aja Bogdanof tells how when she got to "a major studio" (I believe it to be Blue Sky when they were doing "Horton Hears a Who") she had to work 100 hours per week, 40 of them for free.

 

It's a very odd business. If it were a meat-packing plant, charges would be filed.

[jason1025]

She must have been an intern. I have 2 friends who worked on Episodes 2-3 and they got paid 12 dollars per hour. He does not pay that well. But after leaving they got paid 50.00ph just because of the credit.

[robcat2075]

She must have been an intern.

 

No, she was not an intern and she wasn't the only one who had to do that. Everyone on the crew had to work those hours.

[Darkwing]

If you have not watched the Red Letter Media reviews of the prequel trilogy, then you are missing out. They are vulgar though, but highly accurate

[robcat2075]

Even if they were "interns" that wouldn't be legal to work interns 100 hours per week and wouldn't be legal to have them doing real production work anyway.

 

Intern abuse has been pretty widespread in the US but still not legal and fortunately the current administration is starting to enforce the rules.

 

At any rate, Aja bogdanof was hired as a "full time" employee.

 

"Animator" is one of those job titles that, by law, must be paid for all the hours they work for their employer. It's not classed as "white collar" jobs are where just a weekly salary can be paid regardless of the hours.

[Gerry]

by the way if you haven't seen "Star Wars Uncut" you're missing out!

http://www.starwarsuncut.com/