Jump to content
Hash, Inc. Forums
Sign in to follow this  
jabbar

Random CP positions in A:M

Recommended Posts

Hi Folks,

 

I am attempting to model a single strand of hair as if seen underneath a microscope in A:M 13.0. I found GREAT example of it done on 3D studio Max, but of course I can't simply import it. I can re-construct in it Hash very well UNTIL it comes to constructing the randomly frayed edges of the hair shaft (see attached). I tried modeling the multiple rings of ragged, jaggy CP placements by hand but it ended up being a tedious that yielded a result not even close to what I need. Is there a wizard/plug-in/technique that will allow me to create random control point position in the x-y-z plane in A:M? I've tried all of the wizards that ship with 13.0 with no success.

 

Thanks,

Jabbar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
attached?

 

 

It would be great if a wizard could generate CPs with random positions (controllable within the parameters of the wizard) that were attached to each other, but if that is not an option, I would try an option that simply gave me randomized CP positions that I can then stitch together with another cross-wise spline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you said "see attached". I was expecting a picture of something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
you said "see attached". I was expecting a picture of something?

 

 

Oh, sorry---here it is. It's those randomly frayed edges that i am trying to create. The hair strand is really just a succession of stacked cylinders with a small amount of z-depth (like thin rings).

 

Thanks!

hairmodelling_screenshot02.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's what I find when I look up "Hair shaft"...

 

hair_damage.jpg

 

hair_texture.jpg

 

P7200112-F_col_SEM_of_a_human_hair_shaft-SPL.jpg

 

The first one I'd be tempted to try some "hair" solution rather than modeling it.

 

The second and third ones are good candidates for a bump or displacement map treatment.

 

 

Can you show the picture you are trying to reproduce?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In answer to your question, no, I don't think there's an automated way to create what you're trying, sorry. I could be wrong, though, many of the users here have far more wizard/plugin knowledge than I.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't get the proportions of the ragged edge right, but I think this approach would work...

 

ElectronHair.JPG

 

 

 

In photoshop i painted a black-to-white gradient, copied it to several layers and overlapped them. Then i cut a ragged edge off the top of each one with the selection tool. That made my basic displacement map.

 

I put that through the "highpass" filter to get a fake AO shadow look for the crevices. I used "Curve Adjustment" to clip out the excess white that creates on the high spots. That map is used as a regular color map.

 

I added "grain" noise to the displacement map to make the unragged surface look rougher.

 

Those were cyl mapped to the shaft.

 

 

HairShaft__2_.zip

 

 

 

A:M history note.... a long time ago, maybe v5, there was a randomize CPs feature. I made some asteroids out of spheres with it once. It randomized in all directions however, you couldn't limit it to one axis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Testing a bit further I can't get it to work in Final render mode. Stay tuned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

redid the maps from scratch

 

ElectronHairB.JPG

 

 

Needs conditioner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Solution.... Displacement maps require that you render with multipass ON.

 

 

ElectronHairMultiPass0.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Super GOO to the rescue!

 

Hair shaft under high magnification.

 

Had to try using hair material - hair settings - (sprite surface- 50% transparent, 100% spec, combing differently for different looks)

prepostHighElectron.jpg

hairshaftsmootheredgesmudgegradient_copy.png

orangenotrans2.jpg

Edited by NancyGormezano

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks good, Robert! :)

I'm just wondering what you are doing with the AO map. Are you using it as a colour map?

 

Very nice, Nancy! :)

That first hair looks so soft and feathery. Now I want to model a duck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm just wondering what you are doing with the AO map. Are you using it as a colour map?

 

Mine? Yes, color map, it just adds some darkness to the recesses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow!! All of this looks very good!! I think I'll try several of them! It's great to see how responsive the A:M community is! I've been using A"M since 1994 and version 4.0, but rarely do I post--thanks everyone!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I didn't get the proportions of the ragged edge right, but I think this approach would work...

 

ElectronHair.JPG

 

 

 

In photoshop i painted a black-to-white gradient, copied it to several layers and overlapped them. Then i cut a ragged edge off the top of each one with the selection tool. That made my basic displacement map.

 

I put that through the "highpass" filter to get a fake AO shadow look for the crevices. I used "Curve Adjustment" to clip out the excess white that creates on the high spots. That map is used as a regular color map.

 

I added "grain" noise to the displacement map to make the unragged surface look rougher.

 

Those were cyl mapped to the shaft.

 

 

HairShaft__2_.zip

 

Wow, Rob! You've taught me a lot! Thanks! I'll post my results!

 

 

 

A:M history note.... a long time ago, maybe v5, there was a randomize CPs feature. I made some asteroids out of spheres with it once. It randomized in all directions however, you couldn't limit it to one axis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And if you are determined to model it, here's how to do it in A:M...

 

RaggedEdgeCones.mov

 

Note: when I was using the Scale manipulator, i should have held down the SHIFT key to force it to scale uniformly.

 

I also don't think I needed to scale the last ring to 0 on the Y axis, I really should have just moved it down low enough to hide it inside.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super GOO to the rescue!

 

Hair shaft under high magnification.

 

Had to try using hair material - hair settings - (sprite surface- 50% transparent, 100% spec, combing differently for different looks)

 

Hi Nancy,

I really like what you've done. I'm going to try the pre-conditioner with no transparency/specularity! And take just a little off the top, please :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had to play too!

 

In my case I decided to pursue a geometry/mesh based follicle and while not up to the examples posted thus far I think it has potential.

The main idea is to spend a little time with the base ring of the follicle and then use the Duplicator Wizard to copy 25 or so times with the model slightly rotated, scaled and translated as the plugins goes to work. Some additional deformation/distortion and a decal can contribute a lot to the effect too.

 

If persuing a geometry-based solution use of either the Duplicator or Sweeper plugins may be worth pursuing.

Note: The right-most images are the same as the second ran through the Denoise and Exposure Post Effects.

GeoHair.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super GOO to the rescue!

 

Hair shaft under high magnification.

 

Had to try using hair material - hair settings - (sprite surface- 50% transparent, 100% spec, combing differently for different looks)

 

 

Nancy,

 

Can I get a look at your project file? I can't seem to get the look that you have here. I need it for a 2 second shot in a film (I'm re-doing one of my old film school films). I can offer screen credit on the film...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And if you are determined to model it, here's how to do it in A:M...

 

RaggedEdgeCones.mov

 

Note: when I was using the Scale manipulator, i should have held down the SHIFT key to force it to scale uniformly.

 

I also don't think I needed to scale the last ring to 0 on the Y axis, I really should have just moved it down low enough to hide it inside.

 

 

Wow! Great tute, Rob! Thanks a lot! NOW I'm torn between which is better for the project your mesh solution or Nancy's material solution! That's the "good type of problem" I like to have! Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nancy,

 

Can I get a look at your project file? I can't seem to get the look that you have here. I need it for a 2 second shot in a film (I'm re-doing one of my old film school films). I can offer screen credit on the film...

 

give me a sec...I'm hunting it down

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the project (ver 16)

 

I've played with the hair emitter properties (transparency, thickness, density, transparency, bow, length, emitter image, etc), the surface color of the hair group, as well as the hair grooming (this one is probably too smooth for you).

 

You can turn off spec (in Rim light), or dial down the spec in emitter prop. I only have RIM, and FILL lights active.

 

I also used FakeAO (pay version) post effect - so my settings may not work for you

hairshaft3lesswilder2.zip

emitterprops.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here's the project (ver 16)

 

I've played with the hair emitter properties (transparency, thickness, density, transparency, bow, length, emitter image, etc), the surface color of the hair group, as well as the hair grooming (this one is probably too smooth for you).

 

You can turn off spec (in Rim light), or dial down the spec in emitter prop. I only have RIM, and FILL lights active.

 

I also used FakeAO (pay version) post effect - so my settings may not work for you

 

 

Thanks! I'll update you after I have played with it a bit.

 

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I had to play too!

 

In my case I decided to pursue a geometry/mesh based follicle and while not up to the examples posted thus far I think it has potential....

 

Those look cool Rodney. Could you explain more how you got from the first to the second?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Those look cool Rodney. Could you explain more how you got from the first to the second?

 

I'm sorry when I smashed those images together I didn't put them in sequential order. The first image was actually my last attempt at it and the main change to the actual geometry was to make the outer wall more vertical (i.e bring the top spline inward toward the center). As for the look itself the first one is more rounded because I didn't create the base ring with as many cross sections. I spent quite a bit of time turning the model around and making sure there was a visible change from every angle. Then it was a few tests of the duplicator wizard to extend and taper out the follicle. I imagine if you were to do this with your base model it would be 100 times as awesome.

 

In both cases the color/texture is augmenteed by having multiple stamps of a decal applied.

That first one experiments with adding a layer of displacement whereas I don't think the other does.

I'm playing with this layering thing a more because it can yield some very interesting special effects such as smoke and explosions (but... that is way off topic).

 

The attached image shows Duplicator settings (or something close ) for the first image. It's changed a little since those when I got distracted by smoke...

I believe I had a little taper and other settings set for the others.

Dupwindow.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...