Testing with November 11 second club entry

[NancyGormezano]

Ok. testing, testing 1 2 3 4 with this month's 11 second dialog

 

problems I see:

 

1) rigging, modeling issues with arms, hands

2) lip sync for "yesterday I ate" starting around frame 155

3) hands penetrate around frame 95-96

4) ???

 

(not done with costuming, texturing)

 

Comments welcome (and nooooo...ya won't have to go vote for me...unless you absolutely, positively want to wade thru 6 billion entries all with the same dialog)

coccoonshiny8mpeg4medPCMhintedstream.mov

[robcat2075]

I think the #1 rigging issue is the shoulder area. It looks rather awkward when the upper arms rotate on their Z and when the shoudler raise up and down.

 

The #1 animation problem is what i call the "everything at the same time" syndrome. This is when the character moves the body parts all start at the same instant, move all together to their destination and then stop together. It makes for a very rigid look.

 

 

For example: the arm fling gesture she does from 93 (body, arms and hands all begin moving) to 101 (head, body , arms and hands all bounce off their pose then immediately reverse course) to 124 (everyting halts).

 

You may still be in blocking and that's ok, that's what blocking looks like. but moving forward I'd be thinking "how can I loosen up this motion from pose to pose?"

 

The head turn from about 138 to 160 suits my taste much better. Even though the head and shoulder have to turn the same way you've got some contrary motion and overlap going when the head begins by anticipating away from the camera even as the shoulder have started turning toward it. That looks so much better!

 

As far as the performance I think these choices can work, but there will be many using this gambit of a character gesturing with his arms as he speaks. I'd say 90% of 11 sec club entries do just that which may be the least effective acting choice.

 

What else could the character be doing in her life, that fits her character, while she's talking about this problem in her life? That's "secondary action" (not to be confused with overlapping action), action that supports the character's situation, but isn't trying to depict the dialog. This is your chance to imply more backstory for the character than is revealed in just the audio.

 

Easy technique... give her a prop to hold in one hand. A mop, a coffee cup, a book, a gun, a coconut... anything. Each one of those would precipitate a different performance from her because each is handled differently and there's a different reason to have each one. And it forces you to not animate those arms as if they have to be mirror partners of each other.

 

 

 

Great looking character, Nancy! You are the Queen of non-cliché CG characters.

[johnl3d]

Nancy nice character colorful as you usually are

[NancyGormezano]

Thanks Robert - I appreciate your input. I will try to take it to the next step, and incorporate what you've suggested.

 

The #1 animation problem is what i call the "everything at the same time" syndrome. It makes for a very rigid look.

 

You may still be in blocking and that's ok, that's what blocking looks like. but moving forward I'd be thinking "how can I loosen up this motion from pose to pose?"

 

Ah yes. You shoulda seen it BEFORE I loosened it up...And my husband said - yikes that looks sooooo blocky stiff!

 

Normally I don't do blocking, or pose to pose. I usually wing it - do straight ahead, or a combo of the 2. And usually the comments are - it's tooo floaty, need more holds...So this time I thought I'd try guessing at what I think the procedure is that other animators seem to do. Notice I said GUESS. I can see why this method might make for the "everything moving at once" and "too stiff" look.

 

But it was good to do it that way - and now I have to figure out how to get the fluidity back, without being floaty. Delete keys, move keys, and change biases, I'm guessing.

 

As far as the performance I think these choices can work, but there will be many using this gambit of a character gesturing with his arms as he speaks. I'd say 90% of 11 sec club entries do just that which may be the least effective acting choice.

 

What else could the character be doing in her life, that fits her character, while she's talking about this problem in her life? That's "secondary action" (not to be confused with overlapping action), action that supports the character's situation, but isn't trying to depict the dialog. This is your chance to imply more backstory for the character than is revealed in just the audio.

 

Easy technique... give her a prop to hold in one hand. A mop, a coffee cup, a book, a gun, a coconut... anything. Each one of those would precipitate a different performance from her because each is handled differently and there's a different reason to have each one. And it forces you to not animate those arms as if they have to be mirror partners of each other.

 

UH YUP.

 

I had also thought the same things. Thanks for reinforcing. At this point - I was trying to try different technique (for me), without getting too creative, difficult. And yes - the result shows lack of creativity.

 

I was also trying to work on better hand emoting gestures. I couldn't resist. This dialog just begged me for demonstrative hands. Again it was good to do for me (at this stage of my fooling around).

 

I found my acting choices "obvious" as well.

 

A GUN, you say? Now THAT has creative possibilities. I was thinking more along the lines of adding the same ol', same ol' fairy wand and petite butterfly wings...and...and...a tiara...a twinkly, glittery, sparkly, motorized, gurly tiara...

 

Thanks again for the feedback and suggestions.

 

Thanks John also.

[robcat2075]

I can see why this method might make for the "everything moving at once" and "too stiff" look.

 

Even though it looks stiff in this blocking stage, this is an important step to do because this is where you can judge how your main poses work in sequence, if they work themselves at all, if they can be improved. This is where you can test out the main milestones of the action.

 

At this stage it's easy to make big changes to your performance without losing a lot of polishing work.

 

The hard part is showing it to someone who doesn't have your vision of what it might look like when it's finished. It's very difficult for them to see the potential.

 

But if you start out at the beginning and try to progressively do each moment perfect you are investing a lot of time into your first guess at the performance which may not be your best idea.

[steve392]

Great looking charector and its obviusly rigged well looking at the movements .Im no animator so won't coment on that but but its real good to watch your progres ,please keep it coming Nancy

[Animus]

Nice animation! Great appealing character.

 

For the rigging, like Robert I see distortion of the mesh in the shoulders.

Modeling looks very good, though I prefer bigger hands, but that is a personal taste.

Around frame 200 the index has an arc past the straight line that doesn't look real.

Hand rigs allow negative X bending but they rarely look good, unless you are putting pressure

on the finger. That's a very small detail, but it caught my eye.

Colors, well you are Madame Master.

I too don't want to hear my animation is floaty. My last animation for the 11 second club

was so pose to pose that I was asked if it was robot. I think after watching and hearing the clip

so many times, my mind filled the gaps and it appeared smooth to me,... only me.

Yours goes much more smoothly, maybe offset the timing when hitting poses.

Maybe you could use the screen more, have a step left or back. Overall, shouldn't she

be more on the left side on the first frame?

Skirt movement timing doesn't work so much for me, especially on "Yesterday".

Dynamics on hair work good.

Maybe many people will try that, but I would prefer showing "9 cans" with the hands,

rather than rubbing the belly. It would look more like a confidence, just another option.

Have fun!

 

Michel

[NancyGormezano]

Thanks Steve!

 

Around frame 200 the index has an arc past the straight line that doesn't look real.

 

Maybe you could use the screen more, have a step left or back. Overall, shouldn't she

be more on the left side on the first frame?

 

Skirt movement timing doesn't work so much for me, especially on "Yesterday".

 

Thanks Michel for your comments - I agree about screen movement, didn't notice the index finger - but I've changed it, as well as toned down skirt movement on "yesterday" (was trying to go for belly bounce)

 

I've tried to address the issues in the next iteration - But - of course I'm messing things up, making more problems and having some difficulties working with a prop.

 

Also having some problems with body movement, so I don't think I'll rework my mundane acting choices too much (would have to start over) - but when I get more confidence & control/knowledge of this rig - I will definitely try to be more creative on the next effort.

[NancyGormezano]

Next iteration:

 

Moved camera back, added prop, tried to fix penetrations, tried to fix lip sync, added some more (subtle) body movement across/within camera frame, changed some gestures, tried to loosen up

 

and yup - different acting choices are coming to me - might add a widdle bird/insect that flits around as a side kick if I have the energy, inclination

cocoonshiny15MPEG4med.mov

[steve392]

Thats looking wonderfull ,that Wand helps a lot and the hair movement is just nice

[wedgeeguy]

Me likeee!

[NancyGormezano]

Thats looking wonderfull ,that Wand helps a lot

 

Thanks Steve - yeah I agree about the wand - thanks to Robcat for suggesting a prop, and his valuable feedback. Thanks to Michel as well for his also helpful feedback. Thanks to Holmes for his Literig. Thanks to Malo for his modeling tutorial. Thanks to A:M for a full featured, accessible and powerful product and forum.

 

I am also working on next iteration ... trying to add some friends for her... trick will be to not have them be tooooo distracting, cluttering, but subtly add to this 11 second story. I did fool around with a swarm of butterflies...That was a bit tooooo much. I think. I have another idea I will try.

 

And Thanks Bruce! Glad you likeee...but I think you're just looking at her undies...ummm...now that I think about it...so is Steve probably...

 

Here's the swarm attempt - would need more control over their movement, like I said - I have another idea I will try. But I also changed the lighting ...I think I prefer this flatter lighting?...

cocoonshiny15newlightswarmMed.mov

[steve392]

I think the butterflies are good but maybe just one floating in the bg might be less distracting and give a nice extra , I gotta say I think its terrific are them there briches (bloomers)

[NancyGormezano]

Next attempt. Ditched the butterflies - added a new friend.

 

Yes? No? maybe?

cocoon19h264High.mov

[robcat2075]

I f you could make the butterflies flap more leisurely and move more lazily they might be a nice element.

[johnl3d]

Now have the bird caw and you're all set

[MJL]

Of all the 11 second sound bites I've heard, admittedly not all that many, this one seems the toughest to animate to. I still can't determine what she's had nine cans of. Up until the time you added the bird, I was troubled by the squeak at the beginning of the clip. Now, of course, I realize that it is not a squeak, but a chirp!

 

Excellent job, Nancy, with a very tough sound bite.

[steve392]

Hehe I think your mad , All them colours and now this ,reminds me of the 60's . nice animating and a real nice idea but I find it a bit off putting ,distracting lol

[Gerry]

Nance, I think the hand move down her belly is a little too descriptive, for lack of a better word. I think just resting her hand there as if to indicate a tummy ache would be more subtle. And the facial expressions could be a bit more animated. But this is a tough sound bite to work with.

 

Also, for some reason, when I first get a glimpse of her daisy-print undies, my eye *wants* to see red polka dots! But maybe my point is that my eye is drawn down there by the flash of color and maybe that's not a good thing.

[NancyGormezano]

If you could make the butterflies flap more leisurely and move more lazily they might be a nice element.

 

Okey dokey - attack of the mutant vampire killer moths is now in the planning stages....

 

John - rules are - can't modify sound clip in any way

 

Myron - It's "Nine cans of aerosol whipped cream" - I repeat - Can't change sound quality. Ummm...actually I think this is a fun clip to animate to...it's HARD to animate this clip or ANY for that matter (for me). Most of the other sound clips haven't grabbed me.

 

Steve - perhaps the Giant Mother Mothra's I'll be adding will distract your attention from the disturbing bird on head? I can only try...

 

Yup - I can feel my inner "going rogue" ramping up...Sista Sarah is calling me to the fold.

 

Seriously, I don't do this to win. I do this for fun, learning, and to see how ridiculous I can push it, and see what works and what doesn't. All this feedback is very valuable.

 

Thanks again all.

[NancyGormezano]

Nance, I think the hand move down her belly is a little too descriptive, for lack of a better word.

 

I agree, it is kind of obvious ...(thinking to self: hmmm...Now what obscene gesture can I come up with?)

 

Also, for some reason, when I first get a glimpse of her daisy-print undies, my eye *wants* to see red polka dots! But maybe my point is that my eye is drawn down there by the flash of color and maybe that's not a good thing.

 

tsk tsk...another pantie peeker in the crowd... Maybe the Mothra's should fly out from under her skirt? I mean...as long as your eyes are there? ....

 

Again, I kid. Thanks - I also thought that some too...happened inadvertently when I moved the camera back. They didn't show when I had a closer camera - will see what next silliness I can conjur to fix this...

[NancyGormezano]

OK - In the first movie there's not too much difference, mainly changed the hand moving down the tummy.

 

The second attempt is entirely new (started yesterday).

 

Comments welcome. Still a little time to make mods (tomorrow is deadline). Which one?

WiddleBirdH264.mov

BigBirdH264.mov

[robcat2075]

"WiddleBird" looks more ready to go.

 

If I could fix one thing, it would be the way the arms fling out and bounce straight back on "horror" without any arc or overlap. That's the one that bugs me the most.

 

 

 

Too late to incorporate this now, but the voice would fit the big bird character well. I picture a fat person saying the line.

[steve392]

I personally like the Big Bird one best but I am a lousy animator ,so my opinion shouldnt realy count for what your doing Nancy.There both very good

[Gerry]

I think the big bird's acting needs a lot of work, which kind of messes with your deadline. I prefer the original, myself. I think that little bird in her hat (or hair??) is hilarious!

[NancyGormezano]

Blah...I don't like either one of them.

 

I don't like the acting in Bigbird yet - of any of the characters. The "story", so far doesn't get communicated well: She's complaining of being stuck at home having to do all the nest chores all day with screaming baby birds. I was going to add more baby birds demanding her attention, and try to fix Big Daddy Bird actions to look more like he's trying to comfort, be understanding, make "nice".

 

My husband prefers BigBird (but feels the baby bird on ground is distracting). He's probably just sick of seeing/hearing dialog, but probably not as sick of it as me.

 

Steve - It's my opinion, that everyone is qualified to have a preference - and the gut opinion of any audience viewer - regardless of experience, counts. Maybe even more. However, you are not inexperienced either.

 

Sometimes I feel that those who have animation experience, might focus or be distracted by technical aspects, rules, etc. However, they are more likely to be able to suggest ways to make it better, or know why something doesn't work.

 

There's no right/wrong rules for telling someone how they should react/feel - when viewing something for the first time. That is a most valuable reaction/feedback. Usually the animation only gets 1 chance to make an impression, and not many animations get played over.

 

Thanks all for your responses.

[robcat2075]

Hey, you made it into the top half! Onward and upward!