Making sure A:M is worth the project ?

[Sirius]

Hello A:M community, my salutations as a new member and hopefully a new customer. I will continue my search readin thewebsite and related websites, but before or during this time I want to ask and hopefully get some answeres from experianced or begginer notices on the product and if I really should get it.

 

I would love to start by Introducing myself, I am sirius, it is not my real name but itis rather a catchyname, I hope I shallbe spending much time here, and may I also add some of the movies or demo trailers of developement of movies I have seen here are great

 

Now right to the point, I am working on a project for a movie/trailer introduction for a game in developement. My apologies but I am not allowed to release the name. But my placement was in control of the animation and movie section within my team. I have read stories, and seen many videos on the product and am very impressed. Knowingly I am a newbie to animation with outside tools, I have used maya and am learning still many documents in mayas' animation toolset. But I wish to save myselffrom many days of reviewing and reading over document over document of alias maya files and want to cut to a short almost "easy way out"

 

In the animation industry I am nothing but what is called a newb and I am loking to further advance my skills by learning bones and althe joly good stuff. My goal is to start low but reference as much I can to become skilled from the communities influence, but I want to know about a quote I will state!

 

Anyone can use it

 

My only question is what about people such as me that have little or no talent at all in animation, that are looking for programs that can be used to teach us basics about animation and complicated parts so that we can use these skills to benefit us in further projects.

 

I am a modeler and have that placed as a down frame so I am ready and willing on the modeling section using maya and a setof many other tools All I wish to do is get going and practice with animation before my project gets going.

 

Complicated animations in a way is what I am trying to express here, such as sword,gun fights that can be compared to an almost animation capture such as tools likedevilmay cry have used for animating in game scenes, my real question here is, can anyone even someone with no talent in animation be able to use and learn from this tool ?

 

That is my main concern, because maya costed close to 7 grand I want to make sure my investment into thisprogram will benefit me as well as thecompany I am purchasing from?

 

Much appriciation in advance yours truly, Sirius

[Bruce Del Porte]

The principles of animation are the same for Maya and Animation Master. Keep in mind that both programs are tools, like a musical instrument, and learning the artistic side is the hard part. Learning to make commercially competitive animation takes years of study and practice. No software can shortcut that. Animation Master is easy to learn software but can not produce instant results by itself. If this project has a near term schedule and an industry standard quality expectation, I would consider subcontracting the work out. Get Animation Master and learn the principles of animation so you can do the next project.

[Rodney]

Sirius,

In my time being an Animation:Master user (since 1998) there has been exactly one person that I can say just couldn't use A:M. This was someone that was so use to the interface of his other program he couldn't get comfortable with the new interface and workflow of A:M.

 

Now get this... He readily admitted that A:M's interface was more intuitive, more accessible and easier to learn. He just couldn't get use to the differences and had to choose between the two. He wanted to use A:M but just couldn't.

 

He send his copy of A:M back to Hash Inc and sent me a personal apology.

Personally I think he'll be back (he said he'd keep in touch) but just imagine the time and money he might have saved if he had been able to make the transition.

 

I'm in shock everytime I hear of someone paying $7000 for a program that has the same (and even sometimes less) capability than Animation:Master. I think of all the other things I wouldn't have been able to buy; tutorials, books etc. and am even happier with my purchasing decision.

 

Its become pretty much the norm to say all 3D computer are equal these days.

There is a lot of truth in that but if they are so equal... why such a price difference?

I've gotta tell you I'm not sure I really need to know the answer to that question.

Its enough for me to know that A:M is the best deal going at ANY price.

 

So... you mean to tell me I can get 70 years worth of A:M upgrades for the initial cost of that 1 other program??? That alone makes the decision of purchasing (and upgrading) easy for me. Are you kiddin' me!!?!

 

Bruce mentioned the principles of animation and that's an important consideration.

If you are learning animation A:M is an even better deal for you.

 

So... "Anyone can use it"?

 

Yeah... anyone except that poor guy I mentioned.

[cfree68f]

I use both.. one for work, because the other idiots at work insist on using it and one at home and sometimes at work because I love to use it. Guess which one I love to use ;-)

 

That said with 14 years of experience in 3d modelling and animation and 10 years of AM and 7 or Maya.

 

Easy to use, fun to use, fantastic to use, I could go on and on.

[Sirius]

Edit:: Please do excuse my lack of english language text, I do not have a full vocabulary on the language 100%

 

Well, my main place is within rendering and modelingwith maya, I was looking and say that special effects are included to be with am, what about types of dynamics ? I have always loved maya and the flexability because of its render quality I had planned to use it, but with animation master I plan to gain more experince learning the animationside of game and movie developement. I truely appriciate the post's to my thread, as I know, work within these programs takes very long under circumstances, but also time itself is taken away as almost if it was nothing.

 

One thing I have ben considering using AM for, is special effects. I looked, and just want to know a little about the dynamics within AM compared to other programs ? I have ben learning and have gotten set up ina basics learning with mayas frame animation, but want to combined AM and mayas animationabilities possibly ?

 

What are dynamic types or motions of realistic flow within AM like ? Im basicly at a 300% buying chance lol, I am just looking for a bit more answeres before I purchase much thanks. I shall continue my look for further questions I have.

[Rodney]

I have ben learning and have gotten set up ina basics learning with mayas frame animation, but want to combined AM and mayas animationabilities possibly ?

There are some that have had success moving files (models etc.) back and forth between programs but it sure looks like more effort than what its worth to me.

 

In my estimation the best way to share between these programs is by combining/compositing images.

 

What are dynamic types or motions of realistic flow within AM like ?

 

Others will have to answer specifics here too but A:M has Rigid Body Dynamics, Expressions, Newton Physics and more.

Cloth simulation and Particle Hair... they are there.

 

You certainly can do special effects in A:M. Particle sprites, Blobbies, multipass effects and more.

In some cases you might want to purchase a program designed for specific special effects but A:M provides tools to get the job done as well.

 

Keep in mind that Animation:Master is first and foremost a program for Character Animation.

It can do a whole lot more of course... I still discover new things every day... but Character Animation is at the core.

[cfree68f]

Maya Unlimited can do certain things programatically with dynamics that are nice. Per particle control comes in handy. Fluids is nice.

 

Other than that.. AM does it all and beats it hands down.

 

Maya wishes it was in AM's ballpark when it comes to animation and constraints. I wish it was in AM's ballpark, because then it wouldn't be so painful when I have to downgrade to Maya.

 

And I can tell you another thing. Maya crashes on every machine I run it on about 4 or 5 times a day. Even AM alphas give me less trouble.

 

Like Rodney said. use the two together and composite.. don't try and take objects back and forth unless its poly's from Maya to AM. You can convert Splines to Polys and AM's modeler is definately funner and easier than trying to model organic stuff in Maya (mechanically its a toss up).

 

Everyone has their preferences, but every person I've introduced AM to that actually bothered to give it a try stuck with it and liked it much better than Maya.

 

There will be a learning curve, because AM does things the right way and Maya does them the complicated way. In some respects you'll have to unlearn what you assume with Maya, in order to clearly grasp AM, but when you do? Welcome to Nirvana :-)

 

ohhhhmmmmm....

[the_black_mage]

hey, I'd like to point out that I've actually tied several 3-d software demos. each one i got bored(low attention span) trying to figure out how to model use materials etc. and having to read all that stuff in the help file. all of it was really hard to do. then i found A:M i was skeptical at first because all the other programs i had use were hard to do. the lady that was there said that i could surly get the hang of it. so i got my mom to buy it and she did. i didn't get to use it for 3 month after that(i had school and my mom didn't want A:M to interfere), and man was i anticipating summer. to pass the time i skanned manual dayly never actualy reading it(i did it when mom wasn't home), it looked awsem i was able to under stand it and every thing! so once summer came i put it in for the first time installed it and looked around a bit. then i started fiddling with it, i discovered what lathe was and ended up making a apple(in shape).but this was before i knew what a group was and had 3 models one for the apple one for the stem and one for the leaf. i then found out how to toon render which was some thing that interested me allot.i found the choreography and made my first setup and rendered my first scene. and guess what this was all before i even actually read the manual!!!! after than i was completely in to it.

 

there a 12 year old on this site that uses A:M very well. i'm 15 and use it well too heres my site.

 

if i and he can do it any one can.

 

http://www.wolfworks.co.nr

[Sirius]

i seen your site before i like it alot. Especially the car you have on it.

 

But another something comes into my mind, well I have a top line graphics card a best from ati new version and dont want to get into a program where i make very low quality models, my proccessors can handle the program and render i know for a fact, because maya 8 requires a 64 bit platform and i can run maya and render even 5x's smoothed objects in almost no time and it never crashes, but One thing i really stress is quality. I dont want to make extremly photorealistic movies such as star wars movies, heaven forbid i ever be that good in 3 months.

 

But I have always adapted to programs as if i built them myself and the usage of this program i belive will be very easy for me i hope, i have ben watching the tutorials and it seems as if i already might have a grasp and can get into it, but I am at this hold point.

 

Am will use my graphic card to render the quality? or is am set at a specific poly count for models quality ? I had planned to most likely make something such as the "its not just a car" thread, the animation, and quality of that animation by the poster was increadable in my eyes, with an almost 'mental ray' type render, what im scared of is buying something where the models ill be, or have to me anywahre from 10,000 to 30,000 face limit ?

 

I wont be the only one working on my project as I am leading about 3 other people, that we may use this same program to learn from eachother and in the same arena, so as a team I do not dothis alone, but being in charge of this faction of my developement, Iwant to be sure that I do get the best quality out of what I use.

[Bruce Del Porte]

Am will use my graphic card to render the quality?

No, AM rendering is not GPU accelerated, all of the render is done with the CPU

 

quality of that animation by the poster was increadable in my eyes, with an almost 'mental ray' type render, what im scared of is buying something where the models ill be, or have to me anywahre from 10,000 to 30,000 face limit ?

 

AM doesn't use polygons, so there is no polygon limit. The look of any render is as dependent on the way you set up you surface attributes, and the way you light the scene as it is on the geometry of the object.

[cfree68f]

more to the point.

 

AM does do Hardware acceleration of realtime renders, just like maya and 3d games and everything else. So your card will work most likely with AM, you may have driver issues.. I've never had any, but I've seen threads where a user says they have problem untill some driver gets installed.

 

Like I said before.. you have to change or "unlearn" some preconcieved notions you might have from working in a "Polygon" based app. Splines require less Mesh control points to create a surface that appears to be infinately smooth.. more similar to nurbs than poly's in that respect, but much easier to model with.

 

A model done in Polygons would need to have a mesh 15 to 20 times more dense to equal the smoothness of an AM model.. especially if you will be zooming in close on the model.

 

So in some ways AM splines are the best low patch/poly option you'll ever find. But they are nothing like Polygons except that they can be square or triangular. Preferably square (another opposite to polygons which lean toward triangulation for optimal use).

 

I'm wondering why you seem so concerned in purchasing a $300 application when you have laid out $7,000.00 for one which you seem to not want to use. Seems like a no brainer to me with the information you've given and recieved in this thread

 

I'll lay off the input at this point. I'd only be repeating myself.

[Sirius]

Well heres onething I really want to stress. Will all the am animations of anyone who uses it all look thesame in quality? even if one person has a lower grade graphics card ? and the other has a more extreme card ?

[Rodney]

Well heres onething I really want to stress. Will all the am animations of anyone who uses it all look thesame in quality? even if one person has a lower grade graphics card ? and the other has a more extreme card ?

 

Final render doesn't use the graphics card so yes, animation will all look of the same quality.

You'll want to make sure that your texturers are all working on monitors that have similar calibrations or else you may get some strobing but that's not something A:M can do much about... or wait... perhaps it can. v14 now comes with a Gamma adjustment utility in the render panel so you can all sync that too. A definite plus.

 

If you are rendering real time there may be some differences in quality.

Render time is the real difference you'll see. Looks like Colin has addressed some of the hardware excelleration.

 

Experts?

[Sirius]

So how can you create uniqeness in am ? if every graphic model will have the same quality ? or is it deonds on type of shader you use perhaps ?

[robcat2075]

So how can you create uniqeness in am ?

lighting, textures, shapes, animation. Those are all decisions you make. If you copy other peoples' looks, you will get work that looks like theirs. If you don't, you won't. It's up to you to be unique. not your graphics card or your program.

 

Really, it seems everyone has answered as best they can on a forum. At this point you need to make the plunge to know more.

[the_black_mage]

http://www.hash.com/stills/

 

If you so questionable about what A:M can do, check out the stills site then. you won't find many pictures that looks alike.

[dre4mer]

Also, at $199 for educational, $299 for commercial versions, it's less risk to try then nearly any 3D package on the market!

 

-Ethan

[Rodney]

...and Hash Inc has a 30 day money back guarantee.

 

 

If you are just thinking this is all too good to be true join the crowd.

 

I searched around for at least 4 years before purchasing A:M, then lurked on the mailing list for another 4. Both big mistakes. Needless to say, I paid a significant price for that procrastination.

 

If I'd followed my instinct and purchased A:M in '94 I'd have many more years of experience behind me now.

[Roger]

I have to echo Rodney's sentiments here. If I had been steadily working with AM since I first purchased it, I would have done several films by now instead of still be working on one.

 

If you have gotten fairly proficient with a polygon modeler, it will be difficult to unlearn that as the modeling paradigm in AM is completely different.

 

AM is very stable now, however there was one version ( version 9 I think) that was horribly unstable and it turned me off AM for a year or 2 since I really couldn't get anything done with it. AM is beyond these teething pains now and is every bit as good as a "pro" package. It has every feature the other packages have, and some they don't. You also can't beat the price.

 

If you have spent the money on Maya, whether you bought Complete or Unlimited, the price for AM is a drop in the bucket. Get it. If you like it, great. If not, I believe Hash has a money back guarantee.

 

I do have to say that coming from a background of modeling with a poly based modeler that learning how to use splines was the hardest thing about learning to use AM. There are no booleans or other tools like that, so you may be disappointed. It doesn't make any sense to model with primitives the way other people seem to model in polygon-based programs, since its much easier to just draw what you want.

 

Give it a try. I don't think you will regret it.

[cfree68f]

There are no booleans or other tools like that

Um yes there are. But they aren't permanent like other apps. Try out material effectors. and there might be another way to do a boolean but It escapes me right now. Man I'm getting old.

[Rodney]

Colin is right.

A:M definitely has Booleans.

 

In a way A:M's Booleans are more restrictive but in other ways they are more powerful. A:M's treatment of Boolean cutters is know as Specified Booleans which effect geometry only at render time. The 'specified' means that you can identify parts of models to be cut while leaving other parts whole. It gives you a lot of flexibility within the process.

 

For more information see the Tech Ref write up on:

 

Specified Booleans

 

This is a considerable departure from polygonal boolean cutters and it helps tremendously to approach it from the perspective of splines. If you think in terms of polygons you'll find yourself frustrated.

[Sirius]

Ok, thank you all so much,my questions have ended. Well, ive decided that perhaps ill wait and see whatI can do with maya at the current time I only am required to create dynamics so creating them will be a sinch in maya, but I have looked around, and I plan to buy AM for animation of characters and movies, thank you all so much for youranswer and time to help me, much thanks.